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[lenners]

It also includes spells in the top division.

You can pick seasons where we have under-achieved and you can find seasons where we have performed better than we could have expected given our resources etc I still think top half of the 2nd division is about where we've deserved to be in the last 33 years.

Ok, perhaps we need Dazzler again but I wonder how many other clubs of similar size have spent as few as five of the last 33 seasons in the top flight?
I'd hazard a guess you'll find the league table will start to look a bit like that trophy/final one pretty soon.
Whichever way you cut it, we've under-achieved and are continuing to do so.

 

[oldblade]

I would think that Wolves have probably spent a season or two fewer than us in the top division, but other than them I'm struggling.

 

[lenners]

I would think that Wolves have probably spent a season or two fewer than us in the top division, but other than them I'm struggling.

No, I think they're about 7 or 8.

 

[oldblade]

Yes you're right, this season is their eighth. But I would point out that 6 of those were pre 1984-5 season. They've only had two seasons in the last 25 in the top division, compared to our 5 seasons. So I'd say their lack of acheivement in that area matches ours.

They have spent two seasons less than us lower than the second division, but spent 2 seasons to our single season in the fourth division.

I think we're fairly comparable in terms of league performance.

 

[lenners]

I was thinking Stoke might run us close but I think even they've got more in the bag after being in the top flight for a few years early 80s and now.

 

[oldblade]

This is Stoke's 9th season since 1975-6.

This attendance site also tells you what division clubs were in, and in what position they finished each season.

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/england.htm

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Ok, perhaps we need Dazzler again but I wonder how many other clubs of similar size have spent as few as five of the last 33 seasons in the top flight?
I'd hazard a guess you'll find the league table will start to look a bit like that trophy/final one pretty soon.
Whichever way you cut it, we've under-achieved and are continuing to do so.

Sorry Len, if you re-read the original article, you're displaying the exact 'traits' the author was referring to.

 

[raul]

The first 6 words were enough to stop me reading on......:thumbup:

 

[Darren]

Len is right.

Years in the Top division since 1976:

34 Arsenal
34 Everton
34 Liverpool
34 Man Utd
33 Spurs
33 Aston Villa
28 West Ham
27 Southampton
27 Newcastle
26 Chelsea
25 Man City
25 Coventry
21 Middlesbrough
20 Leeds
20 Forest
18 Norwich
16 QPR
16 Sunderland
16 Blackburn
15 Brimingham
15 Derby
15 WBA
15 Ipswich
15 Wednesday
14 Wimbledon
14 Leicester
13 Bolton
12 Charlton
11 Luton
9 Fulham
9 Palace
9 Wolves
9 Stoke
8 Watford
8 Portsmouth
5 Sheff Utd
5 Wigan
4 Bristol City
4 Brighton
4 Notts County
3 Oxford
3 Oldham
2 Swansea
2 Hull
2 Bradford
2 Reading
2 Millwall
1 Burnley
1 Barnsley
1 Swindon

 

[lenners]

Cheers Darren, I thought it would read roughly similar.

 

[Micalijo]

That really does make very, very painful reading

 

[Mary Christmas]

I only popped in to the Forum for something to do before the Reading game but I'm still here trying to understand the article let alone take in all the mean versus median stuff.

I've come to the firm conclusion that I was educated beyond my intelligence.

Reading v Leicester that should be simple enough for me.

Oh and the best I can offer is "When you're average, you're just as close to the bottom as you are the top".

Good night

 

[H. Metal Blade]

Interesting Statistics there. As a Maths Student (who actually loves stats - i know - sad...but whatever!)...i could actually argue why some of those stats are meaningless and why some are unfairly disproportionate etc...

Reading them as they are, it's hard NOT to agree that the club is vastly underachieving since '76....however. IIRC, we've only jusy started throwing money around in the last couple of seasons (so far as my short memory as a blade goes!)

Therefore...in the last few seasons, i bet if you took annual wage budget, tranfer budget and final position into consideration and then did simple ratio's...we would be VASTLY underachieving!

 

[NN6]

Intersting reading going through all this....and to be honest I am pmsl at anyone who says we haven't underperformed historically. basically we've won f all in the last 80+ years!!!

lets start with population. Sheffield is the 5th biggest city in England, after London, Birmingham, Liverpool and Leeds (according to the 2001 census figures for the city alone not the surrounding metropolitan area). We don't come anywhere close to matching any of those cities in terms of football achievement and loads of cities with smaller populations have achieved much more than us in footballing terms.

our attendances are way in excess of what you would expect for our achievements (although more closely in line with our population) and our 'income' is way in excess of what we achieve on the pitch.

we underperform in every aspect as a football club....except...in collecting other football clubs!!

 

[broomhillblade]

Intersting reading going through all this....and to be honest I am pmsl at anyone who says we haven't underperformed historically. basically we've won f all in the last 80+ years!!!

lets start with population. Sheffield is the 5th biggest city in England, after London, Birmingham, Liverpool and Leeds (according to the 2001 census figures for the city alone not the surrounding metropolitan area). We don't come anywhere close to matching any of those cities in terms of football achievement and loads of cities with smaller populations have achieved much more than us in footballing terms.

our attendances are way in excess of what you would expect for our achievements (although more closely in line with our population) and our 'income' is way in excess of what we achieve on the pitch.

we underperform in every aspect as a football club....except...in collecting other football clubs!!

You've hit the nail on the head. Setting aside all the statistics, a city the size of Sheffield surely should have at least one team in the top flight. Yorkshire in general at the moment is faring badly in comparison with our old foes across the Pennines. Surely we should be able to compete with the likes of Blackburn, Burnley, Wigan and Bolton.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Surely we should be able to compete with the likes of Blackburn, Burnley, Wigan and Bolton.

I think the difference between us and Blackburn, Bolton and Wigan in the last 20 odd years is that they all spent money at the right time and capitalised once they got to the top division, we didn't.

It's so difficult now to become a mid table Prem team and sustain it over more than one season so the stats will continue to get worse as time goes on. No doubt Sheffield should have a Prem team and it's all the more annoying when a rugby town such as Wigan with their 12,000 crowds seem to be able to do it.