Tonights Corporate Meeting With The Chairman

[Sean Thornton]

What's with the opposition to cheaper season tickets? McCabe had to do something like this or watch season ticket sales drop to about 10,000 or less.

Also on the mood towards Adkins from McCabe it worries me now that Adkins is about to be sacked. I still haven't seen or heard evidence that anyone has directly asked the question whether Adkins is to stay. I guess he could have gone by now had the board wanted to act, now that there's nothing to play for.

Isn't it about reduction in box prices?

 

[grafikhaus]

I've always found this point of view baffling. Do you genuinely believe that all football players will think this way?

Exactly. So footballers don't want to try and win in case they're out the door? I think they're in the wrong job. Handled properly, 2 or 3 of Leicester's team will be eased out this summer. Is this 'cruel'? Or the continual quest for improvement? Watford's serial sacking of managers is working because the infrastructure has been put in place. A similar 'business model' at Leeds isn't because Cellini - and the fans - are all cunts.

A football club is exactly like a shark. Once you stop moving forward, you die.

 

[Ricky]

Maybe Clough asked McCabe if he was mentally ill or about his sexual preferences? Maybe he went on and on about it.

That wouldn't be football related would it?

Hooray, it's been a while!

He'd be the first one to go on and on about that.

 

[Trueblade]

Sacking Wilson just before the play offs and putting Morgan in charge is one of the most ridiculous and baffling decisions made in football full stop. That decision alone leaves me with little faith in this blokes leadership

 

[Bartyblade]

Isn't it about reduction in box prices?

Criticising the club for not lowering the highest priced sesason tickets isn't much fun is it?
Criticising the club for something someone has misunderstood is what we like best!
Clapper!

 

[Sean Thornton]

Hooray, it's been a while!

He'd be the first one to go on and on about that.

After you obviously.

 

[grafikhaus]

It always has been, why would he/ the prince throw money at the third division when really all you can attract down here is ageing has beens...

Don't see many 'ageing has-beens' at the Champions, Wigan. Maybe they employ those mystical beings that used to be called 'scouts'?

 

[metalblade]

I see the old argument you can't stop players leaving has put in an appearance on this thread lol. Just a thought had we kept hold of Maguire or Murphy or even McDonald before them our chances of promotion would have been considerably improved and even if after we had gained promotion had we lost the said players for next to nothing wouldn't increased revenue from TV and higher attendances offset the loss ?

 

[grafikhaus]

What's with the opposition to cheaper season tickets? McCabe had to do something like this or watch season ticket sales drop to about 10,000 or less.

So you think saving 2 quid, 2 pound fifty from the 'match day experience' is going to keep the supporters coming? Fuck, you can't buy a programme for that. Or a return bus ticket. Or a beer. Maybe a better way to address the (inevitable) drop in attendances next season is to stop selling players? Stop employing crap 'last payday' managers? And stop dreaming that the academy will provide the answer in guys like D C-L, Reed and Whiteman. They'll get eaten alive in Division 3.

 

[grafikhaus]

I see the old argument you can't stop players leaving has put in an appearance on this thread lol. Just a thought had we kept hold of Maguire or Murphy or even McDonald before them our chances of promotion would have been considerably improved and even if after we had gained promotion had we lost the said players for next to nothing wouldn't increased revenue from TV and higher attendances offset the loss ?

Stop talking sense! You're banned!

 

[The Crab]

In my mind there is simply no excuse to continuously sell your best players. Fortunately now at least, we don't have anyone I'm that bothered about anymore.

We'd probably make more money re-negotiating the pie contract than what we'd make from selling any of the shower we have at the moment.

 

[mosbolad]

They could have been as bigger cunts as they liked. Jamie Murphy was contracted to the football club.

Just listened to the Leicester assistant manager on radio 5. He was asked about retaining players if bids come in. He said something like, 'of course we would encourage players to stay but the most important thing to this team is unity and a happy dressing room'.

So it appears even at Premiere League winners Leicester they will not retain an unhappy player at the expense of team unity. Maybe I missed the bit where he said they can be as big a c##ts as they like but they are on contract.

Maybe that's why you are king of the forum anti-Blades and not managing/directing/chairing a professional football club.

 

[Grappler]

So you think saving 2 quid, 2 pound fifty from the 'match day experience' is going to keep the supporters coming? Fuck, you can't buy a programme for that. Or a return bus ticket. Or a beer. Maybe a better way to address the (inevitable) drop in attendances next season is to stop selling players? Stop employing crap 'last payday' managers? And stop dreaming that the academy will provide the answer in guys like D C-L, Reed and Whiteman. They'll get eaten alive in Division 3.

I was thinking about this the other day, is it just as simple as some lads maturing (mentally and physically) earlier than others? Is it about natural upper body strength?

I was thinking about Che Adams and Dominic Calvert-Lewin. Che is a regular team starter, DCL is a bench player who makes a late 10 minute cameo. Both are 19 years old.

Che seems to have no fear running at, or into, opposition players, DCL seems nervous at times (to me), although his last appearance looked a more confident one.

Che has a Kyle Walker build, DCL more of a Kyle Naughton, is it just confidence based upon body size, shape and strength?

19 is too young to judge really, I guess, just wondered why some players are first team players as teenagers (not just for SUFC) and others not.

 

[grafikhaus]

I was thinking about this the other day, is it just as simple as some lads maturing (mentally and physically) earlier than others? Is it about natural upper body strength?

I was thinking about Che Adams and Dominic Calvert-Lewin. Che is a regular team starter, DCL is a bench player who makes a late 10 minute cameo. Both are 19 years old.

Che seems to have no fear running at, or into, opposition players, DCL seems nervous at times (to me), although his last appearance looked a more confident one.

Che has a Kyle Walker build, DCL more of a Kyle Naughton, is it just confidence based upon body size, shape and strength?

19 is too young to judge really, I guess, just wondered why some players are first team players as teenagers (not just for SUFC) and others not.

I think size can take you a long way at that level/age. (You should know that, G!) Maguire stood out in the YCF in 2011 because of his physique. Trouble is, as you climb the ladder, you come up against bigger, fitter players. I think most of us knew 'arry wouldn't prosper in the PL. Then, of course, lifestyle can get in the way when you're young, in a glamorous job and with a few bob in your pocket.

Oh, and before memories get blurred a la Tonge, our stand-out young player - Che - did not come from our academy.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

No he didn't go into that, but listening to other people it may be he had an ago akin to his dads. I have no idea at all to be fair,sorry.

Seems likely to me that it’s related to expenditure judging on Phipps’ comments about “undermining the process”. Did he and Brannigan find a way to circumvent the powers that be when signing off on transfers?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I think this 'game changing investment when we get in the Championship" is the most self defeating, ridiculous public statement any Chairman could ever make.

The majority of the current squad know they are at peak of their true ability in Division 1, but nevertheless, they have superb training facilities, play in a Premiership stadium, on a million pound pitch, in front of 20,000 fans whilst earning above average wages, in summary for most of them, things couldn't be better.

So the Chairman sends out the message to the affect that, whilst we remain in League 1, they can continue to enjoy their enviable lifestyle, however should they get the club promoted, the majority of them will be gone, bubble burst, off to Colchester or Bury playing in some shitty stadium in front of 4,500 fans on less money?

Then we wonder why the team always falls just short, out performed by smaller clubs, the players just don't seem to be bothered, why is there so little effort and it seems it's irrespective of who's in the managers office?

The time to invest is now, build a team capable of competing in the Championship who can take this Division by storm and be confident of its ability to do so at a higher level. In my opinion, only then will we see a team with real desire for promotion.

Let’s not forget that if any of them do perform well they will never be denied their dream move to Brighton or Hull whilst we stay in this division too as “there’s nothing we can do”.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Not all footballers, but many of them, yes.

However, tell me how many of our current squad would be in your team in the Championship, or could possibly get a better deal than they currently have, elsewhere?

Do you honestly not believe that to many footballers, it's just a job and they just want what's best for them and their family above all else?

I suppose the flip side is that surely, if they perform well enough to get a team promoted, they should be able to attract better offers. It’s only because of their non-performance that they would end up at Bury/Colchester etc.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

That's the thing Turry and Red Wine Robbo had an open cheque book and Birch let Blackwell loose before their fall out over Pemberton. Yet he still let Clough do the same it seems.

I got the impression that Blackwell was working in very difficult financial constraints compared to Robson. The sales of Beattie, Kyles, Hulse, Killgallon, Kenny, Sharp etc. only really offset by decent fees paid for Hendo and Evans whilst surely the wage bill was going down as Hendrie, Ehiogu, Speed, Beattie, Naysmith etc. moved on.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Probably around half a dozen. What I'm saying is I find it very hard to believe that an entire squad of players would perform poorly on purpose throughout an entire season. Not only that, but to not perform so badly that they were fighting relegation, just badly enough so that they miss out on the play-offs by a few points. Do you understand how difficult that would be to achieve? And why? It's absolutely barmy. They still get paid, whatever club they're at, and paid a lot more than any other job they could get. If they're so cynical about playing football, they wouldn't care if it was in front of 500 or 75,000 people then, surely? Do you really think that earlier in the season, when we were 1 point off 6th, they all had a meeting and said "Right then lads. We'll have to lose the next game, so when they feed a ball through to their striker, can we make sure the back 4 step aside so they can score? Don't want to reach the play-offs, do we!" This point of view is held by countless football fans, and it never fails to astound me.

I agree that it’s extremely unlikely that they would set out to not get promoted. But, it’s not so improbable that playing in such a comfort zone makes them less driven to succeed than some of their rivals.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I get something quite different from hearing that the Prince will put serious money in after we get promoted - a feeling of "jam tomorrow".

Anyone can say that. I too will put serious money in after we get promoted. See? It's a platitude.

Easier than focusing on the actual problem in front of you I suppose.

I think it’s another clever little promise that’s not quite a lie from our Kev. We will have more TV money etc. thus justifying greater investment in the first team. I very much doubt it means that we will suddenly start spending like Middlesbrough or even the pigs.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

But the issue with Murphy wasn't money. He wanted to play in the Championship to better his chances of an international call-up. Pray tell, in our position, what were we supposed to do about that?

Compel him to fulfil his contractual obligation that he willingly entered into whether he likes it or not?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

1. Point out he has a contract (which he's just signed)

2. Grow a backbone and tell him he can't have a transfer.

McCabe is a businessman. He won a great legal victory on Tevez when many people thought it was impossible. He stood up to the authorities - but he can't stand up to Jamie Murphy's agent? Come on. Jamie Murphy's contract is a piddling little business deal compared to the deals McCabe is involved in on the property side.

There are times to sell. That was not one of them. Our best player was sold, when it wasn't necessary, and the goals and assists coming from midfield were halved in a stroke. It was a dumb thing to do. There was no reasonable replacement for him. Martin Woolford has been a disaster.

I am sick of people defending this policy. It is arguably the number one reason we are where we are. The only thing to rival it is the managerial merry go round.

I know McCabe will never understand this. I know he thinks there's nothing he can do. Until he changes his view we are going nowhere.

A million times this. If we had held onto our better players for the last 4 years, even without any big spending we could name a team of



-----------------------Long


Lowton—Maguire------Edgar----Wallace


----Basham-----McDonald—Quinn


Adams----------------------------------Murphy

----------------------Blackman



Subs

Howard

McGahey

Flynn

Whiteman

Calvert Lewin

De Girolamo

Khan




We’d have saved the money spent on the likes of Brayford, J. Wallace, Sharp, Done, Coutts, Freeman, McNulty, Scougall, Baxter, Cuvelier, Sammon, King, Taylor, Miller, JCR, B & S Davies, McGinn, Woolford, Baptiste, Hammond, Paynter, Higdon, Butler, McEveley, Alcock, McGinty, Johns, Brandy, Forte, Poleon, Robson, Higginbotham etc.


Letting our best players go and trying 3 or 4 different replacements before one eventually comes good by which time we’ve sold our best player in another postion and repeat the cycle is surely more expensive and upsetting the little darlings by making them honour their contracts.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I would have SOME sympathy if BEFORE we sold we had someone in to replace them if this has to be the way.

Selling Maguire Murphy at stupid times in the last 2 years has cost us a higher league finish on both occasions.

The issue is we can’t replace them. We’re selling to champ/prem clubs. Anyone performing at the same standard will also attract prem/champ clubs meaning we have no chance of signing them. Therefore, any replacement will be worse. The best we can hope for is that we sign players who whilst unproven prove to be as good or better in the long run or sign steady experienced players and use the left over money to compensate in other areas of the pitch.


Before we sold Maguire, we signed Butler and McGahey. In theory we had signed a solid, dependable, experienced CB who would never be as good as Maguire but should be decent and a young, unproven prospect we hoped had the potential to be the next Maguire. Neither worked out and we’re still bemoaning the lack of a replacement today.


Before selling Murphy, we already had Adams, Done and Flynn who could play there (none as good mind but Adams again had the potential). We signed an experienced head in Woolford who could play that position. We therefore had “replacements” but we simply could not get anyone nearly as good as the departing player. Unless our recruitment and scouting systems improve massively, we will never be able to cope with selling off the family silver so let’s not do it.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

And when that player starts to complain in the dressing room....?

People act as though players are inanimate objects who will just do as you tell them. It isn't that easy.

It’s a risk but is it any riskier than the scenario I just painted above re Butler, McGahey, Woolford etc?


We’ve tried this way for a number of years and it’s seen us on a constant downward spiral. It’s about time we tried the alternative IMO. Can anyone remember a time when we’ve dug in and kept an in demand player only to regret it?


Keeping them against their will MIGHT cause us problems. Selling them knowing that we have no chance of replacing them with equal quality means we WILL have problems. Surely taking the risk of keeping them is the lesser of two evils?

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think it’s another clever little promise that’s not quite a lie from our Kev. We will have more TV money etc. thus justifying greater investment in the first team. I very much doubt it means that we will suddenly start spending like Middlesbrough or even the pigs.

He has said specifically that board investment will increase when we reach the championship. How much that will be no one knows. TV money isn't board investment.
The one who bullshitted about investment was actually Jim, not McCabe.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It’s a risk but is it any riskier than the scenario I just painted above re Butler, McGahey, Woolford etc?


We’ve tried this way for a number of years and it’s seen us on a constant downward spiral. It’s about time we tried the alternative IMO. Can anyone remember a time when we’ve dug in and kept an in demand player only to regret it?


Keeping them against their will MIGHT cause us problems. Selling them knowing that we have no chance of replacing them with equal quality means we WILL have problems. Surely taking the risk of keeping them is the lesser of two evils?

We've been going nowhere for a number of years. Decent players won't want that, only the likes of Collins who aren't going to get a better deal in a higher league.

It's difficultvto sign players of equal quality as higher placed clubs will be looking at them as well. Unearthing gems has always been a way for us, Currie, Dearden, Deane, Agana etc, who make that step up.

 

[Silent Blade]

I suspect you're not far wrong but I'm curious where you have got the info about the 12 United players on more than £5000 a week.

It was from a friend who was in the Executive boxes at Coventry last Saturday. Not sure where he got the info about 12 of our players being on £5K or more, think he heard it last Saturday at Coventry? The surprise was the info about none of Coventry players being on £5K a week (thought at least Fleck and Cole would get that much). When I told my ITK yesterday, he was surprised about none of the Coventry players on £5K a week and agrees that 12 SUFC players earning that or more is about right

 

[1danewhitehouse]

He has said specifically that board investment will increase when we reach the championship. How much that will be no one knows. TV money isn't board investment.
The one who bullshitted about investment was actually Jim, not McCabe.

Yeah I was thinking it could be termed as "reinvestment" as per Jim's previous naughty comments. Debatable about whether McCabe bullshitted or not. He said the investment would mean we no longer have to sell our best young players before doing precisely that every year.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Realise I'm in something of a minority on this, but I'm actually quite positive about this new emphasis on youth.

I know full well it needs supporting with experience & with targeted signings to cover key areas, but the basic principle's a good one & we really ought to be using this academy, not merely having it there as an attractive but useless showpiece. Call me naive, but I do actually reckon we're beginning to see the emergence of the "strategy" that so many have been crying out for.

Plenty of proof needed for the pudding to rise, not least some evidence of the work Adkins claims is being done behind the scenes. So much is going to depend on both "culling" and recruitment this summer. But some real positives to be taken out of both forums so far. We're seeing a bit of much-needed leadership (not just a cynical "boost the season ticket sales" offensive) IMO.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

We've been going nowhere for a number of years. Decent players won't want that, only the likes of Collins who aren't going to get a better deal in a higher league.

It's difficultvto sign players of equal quality as higher placed clubs will be looking at them as well. Unearthing gems has always been a way for us, Currie, Dearden, Deane, Agana etc, who make that step up.

Agreed but in the past, we've at least had enough about us to hold onto those players for a few seasons and let them take the club forward before selling and repeating the process. Now they're gone as soon as they achieve any sort of consistency.