Tommy Doyle - Spotlight.

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Overthehills

Overthehills

Give Quiche A Chance....
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I struggled with what to name this thread to be honest, but i've been majorly impressed by the lad and i've wanted to express this in writing for a while.

When you listen to his interviews it hard to believe that the lad is only 21, as he comes across as a wise head and far beyond his years. With grandparents like his, he has a huge degree of expectation on his shoulders....Yet he distances himself from their name and insists that he is out to create his own legacy, he wants to be known as Tommy Doyle...... Not Mike Doyle and Glyn Pardoe's grandson. You have to respect this.

But it isn't only off the pitch that Doyle impresses me, but on the pitch as well. He doesn't appear like a lad who is only undertaking his second season in the Championship what so ever! He plays in such a clever and composed manner, somewhat of a veteran trapped in a young lads body at times..... but with the energy and legs to go with it.

He really is an engine and has been a stand out in a large part of what we have done right this season. He is some thing that is rare in this day and age as a box to box midfielder, usually they keep it simple and teach one or the other.... but he has the engine and determination to play this way. He will drop deep and mop up when he needs to, but he will drive forward and spread the ball around when required as well.....

I would go as far as saying that whilst Doyle is here on a development loan as such, him and McAtee have somewhat schooled us in many respects.

Anyway, he's probably facing his old club at the weekend....and I fancy him to play a blinder as well. I genuinely believe him when he speaks of his passion for his employers and believe that he is loving his time at the club.

Keeping him here next season is a huge task, but it is one that I would personally be thrilled at if we can achieve it. If we go up, he is as equipped as any to handle the top flight. He's going to go a long way this lad and he will get full international caps in time.
 

Aye I think we should do everything we can to sign him
 
I wouldn’t say they’ve schooled us, they’ve just given us an alternative option and way of playing in MF which we’ve lacked for many many seasons under the Norwood/Fleck and later Berge regime.
 
More to the point would he want to sign for us ?

Says he loves it here , but has he greater ambitions.
 
I can definitely see Man City selling him, he’s a quality player but probably about mid table premier league club, not top 4. I think city will know he’s unlikely to be good enough for them and they’ll cash in for £20m-£30m.
 
YES Blade said:
I can definitely see Man City selling him, he’s a quality player but probably about mid table premier league club, not top 4. I think city will know he’s unlikely to be good enough for them and they’ll cash in for £20m-£30m.
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Is he fuck worth that!
15m tops based on one half decent stint in the champ.
 
YES Blade said:
I can definitely see Man City selling him, he’s a quality player but probably about mid table premier league club, not top 4. I think city will know he’s unlikely to be good enough for them and they’ll cash in for £20m-£30m.
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City don't need to cash in big anyway, they can do what all theu top teams do now.... write into his contract that they have first dibs for a buy back.

That way they pay for his development, send him off and rhen still get him back if his devlopmebt continues an upward curve
 
I don’t think we’ll be signing him, I’m pretty sure he’s the highest earner at the club by some distance and way beyond our Championship wage structure. Be great to get him on another loan next season though.
 
YES Blade said:
I can definitely see Man City selling him, he’s a quality player but probably about mid table premier league club, not top 4. I think city will know he’s unlikely to be good enough for them and they’ll cash in for £20m-£30m.
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Well, lets face it. We have enough dead wood hanging about the shed to afford that with Berge, Lowe, Bogle, Brewster all failing to tell us anything about who should be here next season. I'd trade all of them in for him in a heartbeat.

pommpey
 
Overthehills said:
City don't need to cash in big anyway, they can do what all theu top teams do now.... write into his contract that they have first dibs for a buy back.

That way they pay for his development, send him off and rhen still get him back if his devlopmebt continues an upward curve
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Praise the Lord that Liverpool took this approach with Brewster.....cough,splutter....
 
Cheesebored said:
Put the crack pipe down.
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Thought the earlier comment from YESblade was generally accurate, apart from the bit where they will be keen to cash in, which bit don't you agree with?

I agree, Doyle has little chance of ever breaking into the Man City team, think his ceiling is average/ good PL player.
It always makes me laugh when one of our players plays well for 3 or 4 games, then the plaudits arrive building him up into this great player.
Then when a player has 3 or 4 poor games like Norwood, it's "he's crap, we need to get rid"

Doyle was just decent Championship standard before Xmas, now he's starting to stand out but still not PL standard.
Doyle is only standing out because we previously didn't have a cohesive midfield, our tactics were built around Norwood, we were totally reliant on him playing well.
Now they (Doyle, Berge and McAtee) are all sharing the responsibility and working as a team, so we now have a midfield unit.

I reckon his current value is £15-£20 million but everything is in place for him to become a standard £40 million PL player.

Think Man City will obviously want him to play in the PL next season.
Suspect they'll either loan him to us again or maybe Kompany's Burnley would be a decent choice too.
If they do decide to sell then they'll insert a buy back clause, just in case.

I think McAtee is more of a Man City player, he's much more inconsistent but (like N'Diaye) is capable of pure (Man City level) class.
I suspect City will want to loan McAtee to a PL team next season but it's vital that he sees game time.
No sure if other clubs can virtually gaurantee game time, so suspect us a Burnley (both local to Manchester) will have a chance.

Note: The loan rule in the PL is that a club can't loan players from the same PL club, so we can't loan both Doyle and McAtee next season.
 
wavy-blade said:
More to the point would he want to sign for us ?

Says he loves it here , but has he greater ambitions.
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What better way to progress than play a season in the Premiership, whether on loan to us or a signed player with a get out clause if relegated.
At 23/24 he would be ready to go wherever he is good enough.
 
YES Blade said:
£20m is nothing, Gibbs-White went for double that and he’d not established himself in the Premier League
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Only time will tell. He's a very good player but I still think your valuation is way off.
 

YES Blade said:
I can definitely see Man City selling him, he’s a quality player but probably about mid table premier league club, not top 4. I think city will know he’s unlikely to be good enough for them and they’ll cash in for £20m-£30m.
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Think 10/15 million gets him. I'd personally offer 10 million with a decent sell on which should be enough.
 
Danetheblade said:
Think 10/15 million gets him. I'd personally offer 10 million with a decent sell on which should be enough.
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The reasons I think his fee would be £20m+ are:
  • City player, so they can hold out for a bigger fee
  • English and U21 international
  • Still young at only 21
  • Proven talent at Championship level and looks likely to be good enough at Premier League level
If there is a few clubs interested that will easily drive the price up. I just look players like Adams and Aaronson at Leeds, both £20m+ midfielders and to me have achieved not much more than Doyle or even McAtee. It’s just the state of the market.
 
YES Blade said:
The reasons I think his fee would be £20m+ are:
  • City player, so they can hold out for a bigger fee
  • English and U21 international
  • Still young at only 21
  • Proven talent at Championship level and looks likely to be good enough at Premier League level
If there is a few clubs interested that will easily drive the price up. I just look players like Adams and Aaronson at Leeds, both £20m+ midfielders and to me have achieved not much more than Doyle or even McAtee. It’s just the state of the market.
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It’s that old chestnut called potential.

In the past we’ve paid over £20 mil for players that have done nothing in the Premier League. Players like McBurnie, Brewster etc were probably only worth £15 mil but they were young with room to improve to increase their value.

Based on what he’s done then £15 mil is reasonable for Doyle but I’m pretty confident he could be worth £30 mil in a few years. So paying £20 mil now might be a sensible gamble

But we tried the sensible gamble with the very highly rated Brewster and that’s been a disaster so far.

Regards midfield it needs a total overall, might be worth also going for the ex Huddersfield, now at Forest midfielder O’Brien too.
 
I think city will sell ,they sold lavia qnd he was a much bigger prospect
Also the academy is basically set up as a farm that brings in income to offset ffp and cover the huge wages and transfer fees
Tge whole set up is geared around producing players to sell or if they are very special to play in the first team
 
I,d also go for Alex Scott at Bristol.. they can have Norwood and fleck if they're desperate and a few mill.
 
Danetheblade said:
Think 10/15 million gets him. I'd personally offer 10 million with a decent sell on which should be enough.
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I don't think we should be paying any more than £10 million basic for him. He's had a great few weeks but I'm still unconvinced that he'd hold his own at a higher level. There's a lot of potential there but could go either way. I also don't think he'd leave City. He's an ambitious lad and I reckon his cause may be better served elsewhere. Not sure he'd shine in a struggling side.
 
Bladedog said:
I,d also go for Alex Scott at Bristol.. they can have Norwood and fleck if they're desperate and a few mill.
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She does my head in, they literally roll her out to present everything nowadays, lovely as she is.
 
Sheffsteel said:
Thought the earlier comment from YESblade was generally accurate, apart from the bit where they will be keen to cash in, which bit don't you agree with?

I agree, Doyle has little chance of ever breaking into the Man City team, think his ceiling is average/ good PL player.
It always makes me laugh when one of our players plays well for 3 or 4 games, then the plaudits arrive building him up into this great player.
Then when a player has 3 or 4 poor games like Norwood, it's "he's crap, we need to get rid"

Doyle was just decent Championship standard before Xmas, now he's starting to stand out but still not PL standard.
Doyle is only standing out because we previously didn't have a cohesive midfield, our tactics were built around Norwood, we were totally reliant on him playing well.
Now they (Doyle, Berge and McAtee) are all sharing the responsibility and working as a team, so we now have a midfield unit.

I reckon his current value is £15-£20 million but everything is in place for him to become a standard £40 million PL player.

Think Man City will obviously want him to play in the PL next season.
Suspect they'll either loan him to us again or maybe Kompany's Burnley would be a decent choice too.
If they do decide to sell then they'll insert a buy back clause, just in case.

I think McAtee is more of a Man City player, he's much more inconsistent but (like N'Diaye) is capable of pure (Man City level) class.
I suspect City will want to loan McAtee to a PL team next season but it's vital that he sees game time.
No sure if other clubs can virtually gaurantee game time, so suspect us a Burnley (both local to Manchester) will have a chance.

Note: The loan rule in the PL is that a club can't loan players from the same PL club, so we can't loan both Doyle and McAtee next season.
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I'd take Doyle over McCatee in that case. Both good players but I feel if we are to get promoted, and end up in a relegation scrap I feel he'd be the more valuable asset. As said both good players but Doyle seems to have that engine, determination and desire.

As somebody said above... Few good games and a player is a world-beater. A few bad ones and they are dogshite 😂

Wasn't long ago I remember reading that Doyle wasn't 'all that'. Not shite but not shit hot either... Is bipolar a symptom of being a football fan?

Really hoping Forest end up taking the plunge so we can pinch MGW off of them... He will want to stay in the PL and I'm not sure he's done enough yet to attract any more than lower mid table clubs. Stumbling block would be wages I'd imagine, seeing as though they are paying Jesse Lingard not far shy of £200k a week 😂
 
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LurkerBlade said:
I would say a deal similar to Lavia could be on the table £10m and a buy back, add ons & future sale %.
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Exactly this; City do it frequently. They’ll sell a player but buy him back when it’s viable for them for whatever reason.
They have similar deals in place with Douglas Luiz at Villa, and Pablo Maffeo at Mallorca to name a couple.
They exercised it with Angelino a few years back.
 
Paying for potential is hard, as we know. Especially when Doyle has grown and improved this season, it's been hugely important for his development, but he's far from the finished article - and we're discussing him being effective at the level above, in this situation. It's a big ask.

I really like him, but if I was being mega critical and nitpicky, he doesn't quite have the turn of pace and the engine that other CMs at the top level have, and can look leggy as he tires - he also doesn't ball carry and drive forward as much as I was expecting when he came in. He has many great qualities, but factors like that would need to be considered in any valuation, surely?
 
GymClassHero said:
I'd take Doyle over McCatee in that case. Both good players but I feel if we are to get promoted, and end up in a relegation scrap I feel he'd be the more valuable asset. As said both good players but Doyle seems to have that engine, determination and desire.

As somebody said above... Few good games and a player is a world-beater. A few bad ones and they are dogshite 😂

Wasn't long ago I remember reading that Doyle wasn't 'all that'. Not shite but not shit hot either... Is bipolar a symptom of being a football fan?

Really hoping Forest end up taking the plunge so we can pinch MGW off of them... He will want to stay in the PL and I'm not sure he's done enough yet to attract any more than lower mid table clubs. Stumbling block would be wages I'd imagine, seeing as though they are paying Jesse Lingard not far shy of £200k a week 😂
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Lingard was on a free....no transfer fee means it's much easier to pay massive salaries for a 1 year contract.
His contract is £110K basic plus loads of incentives pushing it up to nearly £200K, doubt he's earned those bonuses.
Let's say he's averaging £150K a week, contracts normally end at the end of June.
So the overall cost is £7 million, that's less than the package we paid for Callum Robinson, however of course there's no re-sale value in Lingard.
Free transfers make a player become so cheap, that the temptation to pay out stupid wages arguably makes some economical sense.
Imagine giving N'Diaye £150K a week, over 1 year, that's about £7.5 million a year and if you give him a long contract there could be good resale value.

Regards MGW Forest paid a basic £25 million transfer fee + £10 million if he makes a number of appearances and Forest stay up
+ another £7.5 million if Forest qualify for Europe. Also Wolves have inserted a 15% sell on clause.
Also his weekly wage is reported as being £80,000 per week over 5 years. So if Forest are relegated the transfer might end up being just £25 million.

Think that contract prices him out from several PL clubs.
This year he's played in the PL and shown he's at that level, playing well being constantly one of Forest's better players.
Suspect Forest would want easily over £30 million, maybe even hope for £40 million and the player would want £100K a week on a long contract.

You can bet Forest will be hoping for an immediate return to the Premier League, so next season they will keep all their best players including MGW unless they receive a massive bid that can't be refused. If we want MGW, our only hope is in 2 or 3 years, if Forest still haven't been promoted, then they will be under severe pressure to sell some high earners. Also we'd need to hope that MGW goes off the boil in the Championship, so no other PL are interested.
 
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I don't think Doyle's loan spell had been that impressive until he wrestled Norwood's spot off him in the last couple of months.
He's really found his feet in there since and seems to thrive off the added responsibility. He's definitely given us an extra dimension with the mobility we'd been lacking.

I still think he's a long off the finished article and a career at Man City will be beyond him.
He has a good chance of making a career out of being a solid PL midfielder though and I'd sign him on the right terms.
Unlike others, I honestly think £10-15m inc. add-ons is reasonable value.
 
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