To make it happen

[YES Blade]

I thought the thread was gonna be about making the play offs.

Fuck them. Be funny if we could, but I'd rather finish 6th

Agreed, they’re already down, who cares when the maths confirm it.

I personally hope they beat Millwall because that could help us! The success of United is more important.

 

[wak1889]

Blackburn DO NOT play Leicester in the next 2 games therefore it is completely irrelevant what can you not understand about a game in May having absolutely no impact on whether Sheffield Wednesday get relegated in February I shall try and explain in simpler terms,

Assuming Sheffield Wednesday lose to Millwall and us that means they have 39 points to play for,
Blackburn are currently 39 points ahead of Sheffield Wednesday so if Blackburn get no more points in the next 2 games Sheffield Wednesday will still be 39 points behind them

Leicester are currently 39 points ahead of Sheffield Wednesday so if Blackburn get no more points in the next 2 games Sheffield Wednesday will still be 39 points behind them therefore they CANNOT be relegated

However if Leicester or Blackburn get a point on the next 2 games, they are not playing each other by the way then one of them will move to 40 points ahead of Sheffield Wednesday which means that Sheffield Wednesday would still only get 39 so they will be relegated

Then if 3 months later Leicester and Blackburn draw that's fab but is completely irrelevant to Wednesday staying up

However if in the unlikely scenario Blackburn and Leicester lose the next 14 games in a row and wendesadsy win them

wak1889

Here's another way of understanding it...

Imagine it's the last game of the season. Pigs are 2 points behind Leicester and Blackburn but have a worse goal difference to both.

Leicester are playing Blackburn. They can't both lose, so a draw would keep them both up

Yes there is the scenario where Leicester and Blackburn lose every game until the end of the season and Sheffield Wednesday win every game until the end of the season, in which case no we can't relegate them

 

[Silent Blade]

However if in the unlikely scenario Blackburn and Leicester lose the next 14 games in a row and wendesadsy win them

Yes there is the scenario where Leicester and Blackburn lose every game until the end of the season and Sheffield Wednesday win every game until the end of the season, in which case no we can't relegate them

 

[Gateford Blade]

However if in the unlikely scenario Blackburn and Leicester lose the next 14 games in a row and wendesadsy win them

Yes there is the scenario where Leicester and Blackburn lose every game until the end of the season and Sheffield Wednesday win every game until the end of the season, in which case no we can't relegate them

If you could explain how both Blackburn and Leicester can lose their last game of the season it would help people understand your theory

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

I,m not a betting man but is it worth 50p that Pigs avoid relegation.

 

[SUFC Guy]

Nope !

 

[wak1889]

If you could explain how both Blackburn and Leicester can lose their last game of the season it would help people understand your theory

OK I understand where you are all coming from and yes the EFL may well decide to put relegated against Wednesday in February based on the fact 2 teams can't both lose in May, in which case the whole question about whether we can or can't relegate them is irrelevant

 

[Silent Blade]

OK I understand where you are all coming from and yes the EFL may well decide to put relegated against Wednesday in February based on the fact 2 teams can't both lose in May, in which case the whole question about whether we can or can't relegate them is irrelevant

 

[Houston_Blade]

I thought the thread was gonna be about making the play offs.

Fuck them. Be funny if we could, but I'd rather finish 6th

I wonder why they call us ‘obsessed’?!

 

[Selly]

OK I understand where you are all coming from and yes the EFL may well decide to put relegated against Wednesday in February based on the fact 2 teams can't both lose in May, in which case the whole question about whether we can or can't relegate them is irrelevant

 

[Balham]

wak1889

Here's another way of understanding it...

Imagine it's the last game of the season. Pigs are 2 points behind Leicester and Blackburn but have a worse goal difference to both.

Leicester are playing Blackburn. They can't both lose, so a draw would keep them both up

Nice analogy but here’s a better one because goal difference doesn’t come into it.

Wednesday go into that last match of the season second bottom, three points behind Blackburn (22nd/third bottom) and Leicester (in 21st).

For the scenario to work, SWFC (1990) need to lose Millwall and us and then to win the next 12 hoping Blackburn and Leicester lose all 14 of theirs. That would leave the table like this:

24 Oxford played 45 / 28 points
23 Wednesday played 45 / 29 points
22 Blackburn played 45 / 32 points
21 Leicester played 45 / 32 points

Even if Wednesday win, the result in Blackburn v Leicester means at least one of those sides will pick up a point. At that point, it’s the second defeat which sent Wednesday down and that came in the match against us.

Please, please let it be so.

 

[wak1889]

View attachment 230674

However just to clarify the efl never relegate a team based on future results ie something happening in May, a team is only relegated when it is mathematically impossible to catch the team above them, so whilst Leicester and Blackburn cannot both lose in May they do not get the points given to them in February

 

[Silent Blade]

However just to clarify the efl never relegate a team based on future results ie something happening in May,

Yes they do put an R against the "mathematically relegated or promoted team in their published league tables for March and April

 

[Silent Blade]

Nice analogy but here’s a better one because goal difference doesn’t come into it.

Wednesday go into that last match of the season second bottom, three points behind Blackburn (22nd/third bottom) and Leicester (in 21st).

For the scenario to work, SWFC (1990) need to lose Millwall and us and then to win the next 12 hoping Blackburn and Leicester lose all 14 of theirs. That would leave the table like this:

24 Oxford played 45 / 28 points
23 Wednesday played 45 / 29 points
22 Blackburn played 45 / 32 points
21 Leicester played 45 / 32 points

Even if Wednesday win, the result in Blackburn v Leicester means at least one of those sides will pick up a point. At that point, it’s the second defeat which sent Wednesday down and that came in the match against us.

Please, please let it be so.

Oxford play Blackburn on March 11th so to correct this

24 Wednesday played 45 / 29 points
23 Oxford played 45 / 31 points
22 Blackburn played 45 / 32 points
21 Leicester played 45 / 32 points

 

[wak1889]

Yes they do put an R against the "mathematically relegated or promoted team in their published league tables for March and April

They do once the team 4th bottom has enough points that the team below cannot catch them for example if Leicester had 40 points and Wednesday can only get 39 then yes they are relegated, however if Leicester have 39 and Wednesday can still get to 39, they cannot say they are relegated because it's obvious that in 3 months either Leicester or Blackburn will have 40, whilst it is mathematically correct league tables do not work like that with relegation

 

[Selly]

They do once the team 4th bottom has enough points that the team below cannot catch them for example if Leicester had 40 points and Wednesday can only get 39 then yes they are relegated, however if Leicester have 39 and Wednesday can still get to 39, they cannot say they are relegated because it's obvious that in 3 months either Leicester or Blackburn will have 40, whilst it is mathematically correct league tables do not work like that with relegation

You know, at this point I'm simply going to applaud you for your commitment to the bit.

 

[Balham]

Oxford play Blackburn on March 11th so to correct this

24 Wednesday played 45 / 29 points
23 Oxford played 45 / 31 points
22 Blackburn played 45 / 32 points
21 Leicester played 45 / 32 points

Pedant.

 

[mattbianco1]

They do once the team 4th bottom has enough points that the team below cannot catch them for example if Leicester had 40 points and Wednesday can only get 39 then yes they are relegated, however if Leicester have 39 and Wednesday can still get to 39, they cannot say they are relegated because it's obvious that in 3 months either Leicester or Blackburn will have 40, whilst it is mathematically correct league tables do not work like that with relegation

So if going into the last game of the season the table sat like this:

21 - Leicester (32) GD -12
22 - Blackburn (32) GD -15
23 - Sheff Wed (29) GD+25
24 - Oxford (28)

Do you agree that there would be an R next to the pigs ?

 

[wak1889]

So if going into the last game of the season the table sat like this:

21 - Leicester (32) GD -12
22 - Blackburn (32) GD -15
23 - Sheff Wed (29) GD+25
24 - Oxford (28)

Do you agree that there would be an R next to the pigs ?

If going into the last game of the season the table looked like that Sheffield Wednesday would be relegated after the game was played yes , however the discussion for the last god knows how many messages is that would Sheffield Wednesday be relegated in February based on the fact they are 39 points behind 2 teams one of whom is guaranteed to reach 40 come may, and the simple answer is no, so again my point is that the result of the Leicester v Blackburn game in May has absolute no bearing on the league table in February as the efl do not consider points available from future games no matter what the mathematic probability is, they would only be relegated once it is mathematically impossible to catch the team above them based on the points that the team above them have at that particular time, not on a projected points total from a game 3 months in the future, that is what people fail to comprehend, yes we know based on the fixtures one of them has to gain the point required but until it happens they don't have the point

 

[Silent Blade]

If going into the last game of the season the table looked like that Sheffield Wednesday would be relegated after the game was played yes , however the discussion for the last god knows how many messages is that would Sheffield Wednesday be relegated in February based on the fact they are 39 points behind 2 teams one of whom is guaranteed to reach 40 come may, and the simple answer is no, so again my point is that the result of the Leicester v Blackburn game in May has absolute no bearing on the league table in February as the efl do not consider points available from future games no matter what the mathematic probability is, they would only be relegated once it is mathematically impossible to catch the team above them based on the points that the team above them have at that particular time, not on a projected points total from a game 3 months in the future, that is what people fail to comprehend, yes we know based on the fixtures one of them has to gain the point required but until it happens they don't have the point

wak1889's 2 rules in his life.

Rule 1 - I am always right
Rule 2 - when I realise I got it wrong, look at Rule 1

 

[wak1889]

wak1889's 2 rules in his life.

Rule 1 - I am always right
Rule 2 - when I realise I got it wrong, look at Rule 1

OK fair enough if you believe that the league will relegate Wednesday in February based on the projected points total of a match 3 months ahead then fine that's your choice , it will never happen for any of us to prove who is right and wrong so it's pretty much irrelevant

 

[Kenny Powers]

If going into the last game of the season the table looked like that Sheffield Wednesday would be relegated after the game was played yes , however the discussion for the last god knows how many messages is that would Sheffield Wednesday be relegated in February based on the fact they are 39 points behind 2 teams one of whom is guaranteed to reach 40 come may, and the simple answer is no, so again my point is that the result of the Leicester v Blackburn game in May has absolute no bearing on the league table in February as the efl do not consider points available from future games no matter what the mathematic probability is, they would only be relegated once it is mathematically impossible to catch the team above them based on the points that the team above them have at that particular time, not on a projected points total from a game 3 months in the future, that is what people fail to comprehend, yes we know based on the fixtures one of them has to gain the point required but until it happens they don't have the point

Not sure if this is a wind up, if so, we'll played, you got me!

The various explanations that you've been given, demonstrate that it would be mathematically impossible for them to stay up, due to the absolute certainty that Leicester will play Blackburn and the absolute, mathematical certainty, that, at least, one of those teams will get a point.

The relegation is confirmed when the fixtures ahead mean that it mathematically impossible to stay up.

This seems really obvious, unless I'm missing something?

UTB

 

[Dutch Blade]

If you could explain how both Blackburn and Leicester can lose their last game of the season it would help people understand your theory

I mean, if both teams would not show up at that date, I assume both teams will receive 0 points right? In that scenario, there is still a scenario in which Wednesday could stay up and thus no 'R' at their names.

 

[Gateford Blade]

I mean, if both teams would not show up at that date, I assume both teams will receive 0 points right? In that scenario, there is still a scenario in which Wednesday could stay up and thus no 'R' at their names.

Or, as both don’t complete the fixture the opposition get 3 points awarded. So they both win

 

[Selly]

This may end up becoming wak1889 's equivalent of The Vicar 's Joe Root thread.

I'd almost prefer the precise scenario we have talked about (x points behind with x points left to play for) to happen this coming weekend just to see the R appear next to SWFC (1990)'s name and maybe then wak1889 will concede...

 

[Selly]

I mean, if both teams would not show up at that date, I assume both teams will receive 0 points right? In that scenario, there is still a scenario in which Wednesday could stay up and thus no 'R' at their names.

Right - but if we are resorting to unlikely scenarios they'd never put C, P or R next to a team before the seaosn is finished "just in case" they, or someone else, got a points deduction.

 

[wak1889]

This may end up becoming wak1889 's equivalent of The Vicar 's Joe Root thread.

I'd almost prefer the precise scenario we have talked about (x points behind with x points left to play for) to happen this coming weekend just to see the R appear next to SWFC (1990)'s name and maybe then wak1889 will concede...

I really hope it happens but it won't because the EFL don't operate that way because they operate based on the points accrued, not potential points v the points you can obtain

 

[Dkc]

Presuming pigs roll over v Millwall this weekend it could still happen if Leicester and Blackburn both lose right?

 

[Selly]

Presuming pigs roll over v Millwall this weekend it could still happen if Leicester and Blackburn both lose right?

Yes - plus a number of other scenarios.

In fact its probably easier to list out the scenario in which they would be relegated this weekend.

SWFC (1990) lose AND
Leics Win in midweek OR Blackburn Win at the weekend
AND WBA Win in midweek
AND Portsmouth Win at the weekend

They would be relegated.

If the only one of the above that doesn't happen is Portsmouth getting a win then SWFC (1990) would be relegated if Portsmouth get a win vs Charlton on the 17th.

Then there are further opportunities the day before we play them.

Basically a loss for SWFC (1990) AND (a win for Leics (2 matches) OR Blackburn(2 matches)) AND a win for WBA (2 matches) AND a win for Portsmouth (3 matches) between now and the derby means they are already down.

All will be a little clearer on Tuesday night.

They could be relegated on any of 14th, 17th, 20th, 21st or 22nd as things stand

 

[Geordie Blade]

Bloody hell, this thread. Is someone thinking that "the EFL" (as an entity) ceremonially puts a big "R" (a literal object?) next to "the League Table" (is this displayed on the outside of the EFL offices)?

Newspapers, Sky, the BBC, websites, etc. all show league tables and they choose whether or not to put an 'R' next to the name of a club that mathematically cannot stay up. Mathematically means that it cannot happen (a team overturning a 100-goal GD deficit can happen, even though it's unlikely, but two teams playing each other can't both get zero points). Two things for sure:

1. Newspapers and websites WILL account for the Leicester-Blackburn game, and any other possibilities.
2. "The EFL" don't put R signs next to clubs. At the end of the season, they formally notify promoted and relegated teams of their change in share of the league status.