The owners

[Chabuddy G]

Should they take some of the blame?

We backed out of deals for,

Maupay
Watkins
Cash

Can't help but think of we had those 3 in the bag we'd be strides above our current level.

No. They shouldn’t.

Maupay didnt want to come
Watkins went for 32mil, to a manager he trusts and with a lot more wages
Bogle has been signed and hardly played despite looking promising, why would Cash be any different?

It’s all fucking bollocks excuses. The owners couldn’t have done more.

 

[Bladesince59]

The problem is, we can afford the transfer fees, but can’t commit to the wages. So we are left having to gamble on potential, because only young lads at the start of their career or Championship players will accept wages that fit our structure. I dont think our owners can be criticised, they’ve provided the funds, the fact that our transfer dealings have produced such poor returns is not their fault. It is however, something that needs to be seriously restructured.

They’ve supplied over £130m in transfer funds but our Premier League adventure has currently raked in £300m + including parachute payments so I think they’re still in a healthy financial position

So when we do sign players on our limited pay structure, we are getting them because we are outbidding everyone else. The standard of players we are therefore attracting becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: the good ones go elsewhere for more wages, the ones no-one else rate join us. UTB

 

[Barry Butlin]

No. They shouldn’t.

Maupay didnt want to come
Watkins went for 32mil, to a manager he trusts and with a lot more wages
Bogle has been signed and hardly played despite looking promising, why would Cash be any different?

It’s all fucking bollocks excuses. The owners couldn’t have done more.

Yes the owners could have done more, they could have put some money in!!

 

[Chabuddy G]

Yes the owners could have done more, they could have put some money in!!

They’ve spent 130m since promotion, what the fuck did you expect?

 

[Barry Butlin]

Not there money though it was tv money, they could have put money in like the other owners have done. You do know we’ve got the lowest wage bill don’t you? So 20th is where we should be all things been equal...

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

luck ha ha, if we'd been half as lucky as villa last season we would have qualified for europe. We got no luck at all with VAR or referees, this team had to work extremely hard for every point that the rest of the league begrudged us.

I don't mean our position was luck.
We earned that place by pure graft, and every player giving 110% every match.
Also we had no major long term injuries, we kept deano for another season.
It all went as well as possible. This season we've had the opposite.
We've always known and been told to achieve what we did required 100% from everybody. We haven't had that, due to form and player availability and player selection.

 

[Chabuddy G]

Not there money though it was tv money, they could have put money in like the other owners have done. You do know we’ve got the lowest wage bill don’t you? So 20th is where we should be all things been equal...

Burnley should’ve gone down every year they’ve been in the league by that method

 

[blade_ben]

In a different angle regarding the owner, has anyone seen or heard of any update on the new first team building at Shirecliffe? Though it was supposed to be completed by now?

 

[Barry Butlin]

Burnley should’ve gone down every year they’ve been in the league by that method

Yes they should

 

[1066blade]

I

Should they take some of the blame?

We backed out of deals for,

Maupay
Watkins
Cash

Can't help but think of we had those 3 in the bag we'd be strides above our current level.

I don't think it was a case of 'backed out', in the instance of Maupay, the guy never wanted to be more than a channel crossing from his homeland. Cash was always destined for a huge future, he hired an agent to ensure a salary far beyond our means. Villa have a billionaire owner, we don't.

 

[CentralQuay]

"Backed out" for Maupay/Watkins/Cash suggests the club were about to bring them in, but pulled the plug.

The reality is they would turn the club down for moves to Brighton/Villa.

 

[JimPhipps]

Should they take some of the blame?

We backed out of deals for,

Maupay
Watkins
Cash

Can't help but think of we had those 3 in the bag we'd be strides above our current level.

I am not blaming CW, but it’s hard to blame to board when the ultimate decision on the picks for club was CW. We do not know who all was offered or proposed by the board to Chris and if we did we could see how those picks are doing at the clubs who took them. Recruitment does seem to be a key to our current situation. There are also factors Chris can not control (absence of fans in the terraces).

 

[Stegosaurus]

Hi, Stegosaurus here

No, they've given Wilder plenty but he's spaffed it away on garbage.

Ok, wages, I get it. But we're spaffing wages on Foderingham and Rodwell who arent needed. He's spaffed so much money away on garbage.

Over 20 spaffed on Brewster. Up to 18 spaffed on Ramsdale when we could have got Foster or Gunn for less.

I wouldnt blame the board if they didnt give him a penny given the money spaffed away.

 

[Torrix1889]

There was also the Antonee Robinson saga, £2m release clause fee agreed with Wigan yet he chose Fulham purely on wages, (allegedly).....I get the wage structure thing and not saddling us with mega earners whilst we try to establish ourselves in the top flight but there has surely got to be a time when we ask ourselves are we in this for the long haul or enjoying it whilst it lasts?

Appears it was the latter....

 

[Champagneblade]

If it’s too early to judge them what is it they offer if not potential?

How did I contradict myself? We pay out big fees for unproven players who then take us down because their potential isn’t brought out in time to save us. We then go down and have to sell them because other teams can afford to have loads of potential players on their books and loan them out or develop them internally.

We needed players who can make a difference now. Next season is too late.

Fair comment. There has been a bit of Warnock January Window, Luton Shelton, Matt Kigallon about our summer recruitment.

I'd always rather recruit fewer players and buy quality and take the risk that comes with that. If we'd kept Freeman as back up and not bothered with Lowe, and not signed Brewster, we must have been close to marching what Villa paid Watkins.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The sad fact is you have to be doing a 100 million a season on wages and fifty to 60 million per year on signings to compete at this level. Even then you're a long way of Everton, Leicester etc levels of investment - never mind the "big six". Ergo a club like United needs somebody who's prepared to lose around 60 million of their own money per season. The one outlier is Burnley who had a wage bill in the region of 30 million higher than ours last season, but a very small transfer spend. If your owner doesn't have the money then what can you do? We spend decent money on transfers but don't compete on wages. The transfers are almost all of the younger variety with what's been hinted as hefty wage cuts upon relegation. All these factors limit your market and - dare I say it - expected performance. The only way you can sustain Prem football using this method is by sneaking up for a number of years, developing the young players, and flogging them for big money - giving a capable manager/team the bulk of the money to reinvest. I prefer our method to Burnley's because, theoretically ,it insulates the owner/club somewhat from the fallout of relegation: you have a wage bill under control and a collection of young assets to sell or develop, and hopefully bounce back stronger with.

I expected the Prince to offload United in line with his statements when he got involved in the club. I got the gist that he wouldn't be able to finance us alone and this gave him the opportunity to sell the club at its peak valuation. I was wrong. A similar issue will arise in the Championship if/when the parachute payments dry up, unless United get an owner that's prepared to lose serious amounts of their personal wealth in the club. I wish the game wasn't like this, but that's the reality.

 

[JJBlade]

Yes it was. Obviously unless you're happy to be the next Huddersfield, Stoke, Bradford, Bolton, Sunderland to drop out of the prem with ridiculous contracts to average players, and never be seen again.

Why does everything have to end badly because you sign top class players on big wages

Leicester and Wolves will probably never see Championship football ever again,

Chelsea or Spurs will give them 50 or 60 million quid when they buy somebody from them because they bought quality in the first place.

These clubs have bought excellent quality from overseas, whereas ours probably have to show their worthiness by having a gallon of magnet and a packet of woodbines every day. They certainly look like it.

These clubs embraced playing in the big league and become a big part of it by acting like a big club, we've done our usual "too rich for us bollox" and are getting relegated as a result of the backward attitude of the entire club and most of its fans base

 

[Keen Blade]

The true test of the owner will come in the Championship if we don't look like bouncing back.
The Prince is a businessman , not someone who wants to subsidize this project.
It would be difficult to find a buyer for a loss-making club.
And the idea of replacing the Lane with property development might appeal to him.
If we start to fall down the leagues , our existence is threatened.

 

[Sizablade]

Why does everything have to end badly because you sign top class players on big wages

Leicester and Wolves will probably never see Championship football ever again,

Chelsea or Spurs will give them 50 or 60 million quid when they buy somebody from them because they bought quality in the first place.

These clubs have bought excellent quality from overseas, whereas ours probably have to show their worthiness by having a gallon of magnet and a packet of woodbines every day. They certainly look like it.

These clubs embraced playing in the big league and become a big part of it by acting like a big club, we've done our usual "too rich for us bollox" and are getting relegated as a result of the backward attitude of the entire club and most of its fans base

Do you think out owners have the same wealth as Leicester and wolves? If you do I have some bad news for you!

 

[JJBlade]

Do you think out owners have the same wealth as Leicester and wolves? If you do I have some bad news for you!

Do you think owners of other clubs tip hundreds of millions of pounds away on football clubs every season?

They don't

They buy good footballers, pay them well, and sell them for £70 - £80 million, then they buy more good players, pay them well, and sell them for £70 - £80 million

Our club is averse to signing quality, style, flair, creativity and any other exciting footballing attributes so it will never be in a self sufficient sell to buy state, and the issue of how much money the owner has got will always be an issue.

 

[Sizablade]

Who were the last players wolves and Leicester sold for 70 80 million?

 

[Houston_Blade]

Cyclical argument this one I think. The recruitment team suggest the players and the board sign them off so both are at fault.

If someone comes to me at work wanting to buy a lorry with 3 wheels and no fuel tank I don't just tell them to crack on, I ask them why they don't look at alternatives and buy something fit for purpose.

Presumably Wilder and the recruitment team were told "we won't pay big wages so look for young British lads and we'll pony up the fee but pay less in wages". I'm pretty sure Wilder hasn't just gone and identified cheap options as that is generally not the behaviour of an employee, they'd seek to get the best player available to them.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

Who were the last players wolves and Leicester sold for 70 80 million?

Mahrez was £60m and Mcguire £80m if memory serves.

 

[Sizablade]

Mahrez was £60m and Mcguire £80m if memory serves.

Not exactly Leicester and wolves business model though is it, which was my point.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

Not exactly Leicester and wolves business model though is it, which was my point.

Not sure tbh. Leicester tend to buy cheap, develop and sell on. They've done it with Kante, Drinkwater, Mahrez and McGuire. They sold Chilwell in the summer for £50m after developing James Justin as a replacement (cost £8m from Luton). They have invested in Periera, Castagne, Soryuncu and Fofana for the future. Looks like a good business model to me.

They didn't do it before they got established though, and they also supplemented it with experience (Jonny Evans). This is where we have slipped up. We seem locked into the idea of paying decent transfer fees which we can afford immediately, but not high wages which we are lumbered with if we get relegated.

I'd argue we should have done a bit of both.

I think the low wages is a slight red herring though, as I'm sure I read that the players get very good bonuses depending upon final league position. So whilst the weekly wage is low, the annual earnings are good, if they do well.

Ironically, whilst this was a great system getting to the EPL, perhaps there are a lot of sulking players out there who realise that their year end bonus has gone the same way as Moose's car, i.e up in smoke.

 

[Robboblade1889]

If anyone thinks we paid 11m on Bogle and Lowe and have also spent 130m then you are living in cloud cookoo land. We haven’t spent anywhere near that amount. They may well have cost us that much if we had stayed in the prem and been quite successful but we haven’t. Also we have made this money so we are only using the money earns by getting in the premier league.

 

[Sizablade]

Not sure tbh. Leicester tend to buy cheap, develop and sell on. They've done it with Kante, Drinkwater, Mahrez and McGuire. They sold Chilwell in the summer for £50m after developing James Justin as a replacement (cost £8m from Luton). They have invested in Periera, Castagne, Soryuncu and Fofana for the future. Looks like a good business model to me.

They didn't do it before they got established though, and they also supplemented it with experience (Jonny Evans). This is where we have slipped up. We seem locked into the idea of paying decent transfer fees which we can afford immediately, but not high wages which we are lumbered with if we get relegated.

I'd argue we should have done a bit of both.

I think the low wages is a slight red herring though, as I'm sure I read that the players get very good bonuses depending upon final league position. So whilst the weekly wage is low, the annual earnings are good, if they do well.

Ironically, whilst this was a great system getting to the EPL, perhaps there are a lot of sulking players out there who realise that their year end bonus has gone the same way as Moose's car, i.e up in smoke.

Think you're right, in that they had to establish themselves first before they could get that calibre of player. Unfortunately we were still a couple of years at least from that.
I do believe we tried, with the likes of Watkins, Cash, Wilson and Robinson ect but it's still to much for us at present. Think we've probably ended up with 4th 5th choice signings from the 'list which has ultimately led to where we are now.
The one thing synonymous with football is money. Money for players, money for wages, money for agents....if you've not got it you can't compete. Sad really, yearn for the days of local business man owning the local club, but that's all a distant memory because of that one thing again.....money! Utb

 

[blade_ben]

Who were the last players wolves and Leicester sold for 70 80 million?

Maguire!

 

[Pedro Verde]

Why does everything have to end badly because you sign top class players on big wages

Leicester and Wolves will probably never see Championship football ever again,

You do realise Wolves have mega rich owners
They also have the Portugese super agent Mendes working with them assisiting them in their recruitment
I would suggest if Mendes wasnt there Wolves would not have signed the players they have and would not have been as succesful in the transfer market

 

[Sizablade]

Think you're right, in that they had to establish themselves first before they could get that calibre of player. Unfortunately we were still a couple of years at least from that.
I do believe we tried, with the likes of Watkins, Cash, Wilson and Robinson ect but it's still to much for us at present. Think we've probably ended up with 4th 5th choice signings from the 'list' which has ultimately led to where we are now.
The one thing synonymous with football is money. Money for players, money for wages, money for agents....if you've not got it you can't compete. Sad really, yearn for the days of local business man owning the local club, but that's all a distant memory because of that one thing again.....money! Utb

Maguire!

Yeah get Maguire Kante ect, but seriously if we think we're on the same level with the same business plan as Leicester and Wolves we're in trouble!