The "Number 6"

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CrookesBlade said:
The “Number 6” thing baffles me.

Number 6 is a centre half!!!! Always has been. Can’t think of any deep lying midfielder who wore number 6 in the days when numbers meant something.
Click to expand...

................1
2........5.......6........3
7........4......8.........11
..............10
...............9

4 sits, 8 goes.
 
CrookesBlade said:
The “Number 6” thing baffles me.

Number 6 is a centre half!!!! Always has been. Can’t think of any deep lying midfielder who wore number 6 in the days when numbers meant something.
Click to expand...
Only from my distant days Duncan Edwards and Dave Mackay but yes, I've always seen 4 as the midfield number.
 
CrookesBlade said:
The “Number 6” thing baffles me.

Number 6 is a centre half!!!! Always has been. Can’t think of any deep lying midfielder who wore number 6 in the days when numbers meant something.
Click to expand...
Everton in the 80s had Peter Reid in the no. 6 shirt, as their CB captain, Ratcliffe wore no. 4.
Also the Denmark team at the '86 World Cup, had their CB captain Morten Olsen wear 4, and midfielder Lerby in 6.
There ends the number nerd sermon.
 
Billing has played several positions in midfield. He had his best season at Bournemouth playing off the striker. He would most obviously be a box to box option alongside Soumare/Peck/Arblaster for us, I would think.I don't think we are going to see a Vini like player and set up. For the price quoted he would seem great value. But whether it is worth it depends on the overall budget.There are a lot of long term needs elsewhere that would benefit from a cash signing.
 
CrookesBlade said:
The “Number 6” thing baffles me.

Number 6 is a centre half!!!! Always has been. Can’t think of any deep lying midfielder who wore number 6 in the days when numbers meant something.
Click to expand...

Not quite. Depends where in the world you are.

It all stems from the evolution from 2-3-5. In that formation, it was quite straightforward in terms of numbers. 2 and 3 were full backs; 4 & 6 half backs; 5 centre back; 7 & 11 outside forwards, 8 & 10 inside forwards & 9 centre forward:
1755792318419.webp

Different countries modified this when the changes in the offside law meant that more players needed to be in defence. In the UK, we moved the centre half and the left half back into the middle of the defensive line and the 7, 8 & 11 to join the 4 in a midfield four, leaving 9 & 10 as forwards:
1755791498306.webp

In South America, however, things were different. Not only was 4-3-3 preferred but they'd moved different roles. 5 stayed as the central defensive midfielder in both Brazil and Argentina but the two defensive numbering systems were different:
Brazil:
1755791674177.webp

Argentina:
1755791688447.webp

In Spain (and a lot of Europe), it was different again with 2-4-5-3 being the defence and 6-8-10 being the midfield - hence those numbers now being used to describe a midfielder's role in the team:
1755791767254.webp

Modern cases in point:
Javier Zanetti wearing 4 at RB for Argentina, Roberto Carlos wearing 6 at LB for Brazil with Lucío wearing 3 at CB. Xavi wearing 6 for Barcelona and Spain.
 
Last edited:
Balham said:
Not quite. Depends where in the world you are.

It all stems from the evolution from 2-3-5. In that formation, it was quite straightforward in terms of numbers. 2 and 3 were full backs; 4 & 6 half backs; 5 centre back; 7 & 11 outside forwards, 8 & 10 inside forwards & 9 centre forward:
View attachment 219846

Different countries modified this when the changes in the offside law meant that more players needed to be in defence. In the UK, we moved the centre half and the left half back into the middle of the defensive line and the 7, 8 & 11 to join the 4 in a midfield four, leaving 9 & 10 as forwards:
View attachment 219847

In South America, however, things were different. Not only was 4-3-3 preferred but they'd moved different roles. 5 stayed as the central defensive midfielder in both Brazil and Argentina but the two defensive numbering systems were different:
Brazil:
View attachment 219848

Argentina:
View attachment 219849

In Spain (and a lot of Europe), it was different again with 2-4-5-3 being the defence and 6-8-10 being the midfield - hence those numbers now being used to describe a midfielder's role in the team:
View attachment 219850

Modern cases in point:
Javier Zanetti wearing 4 at RB for Argentina, Roberto Carlos wearing 6 at LB for Brazil with Lucío wearing 3 at CB. Xavi wearing 6 for Barcelona and Spain.
Click to expand...
This is, without doubt, one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum. I was always a little confused by this and its answered all my questions. Brilliant.
 

SUFCScorecard said:
This is, without doubt, one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum. I was always a little confused by this and its answered all my questions. Brilliant.
Click to expand...
Happy to help :) just a pity it's going to get buried in the discussion about whether we're going to sign a 29 year old Danish international midfielder.

A friend gave me Jonathan Wilson's "Inverting the Pyramid" years ago. Fascinating read if football tactics are your thing, though I suspect it's due an update.
 
Balham said:
Not quite. Depends where in the world you are.

It all stems from the evolution from 2-3-5. In that formation, it was quite straightforward in terms of numbers. 2 and 3 were full backs; 4 & 6 half backs; 5 centre back; 7 & 11 outside forwards, 8 & 10 inside forwards & 9 centre forward:
View attachment 219852

Different countries modified this when the changes in the offside law meant that more players needed to be in defence. In the UK, we moved the centre half and the left half back into the middle of the defensive line and the 7, 8 & 11 to join the 4 in a midfield four, leaving 9 & 10 as forwards:
View attachment 219847

In South America, however, things were different. Not only was 4-3-3 preferred but they'd moved different roles. 5 stayed as the central defensive midfielder in both Brazil and Argentina but the two defensive numbering systems were different:
Brazil:
View attachment 219848

Argentina:
View attachment 219849

In Spain (and a lot of Europe), it was different again with 2-4-5-3 being the defence and 6-8-10 being the midfield - hence those numbers now being used to describe a midfielder's role in the team:
View attachment 219850

Modern cases in point:
Javier Zanetti wearing 4 at RB for Argentina, Roberto Carlos wearing 6 at LB for Brazil with Lucío wearing 3 at CB. Xavi wearing 6 for Barcelona and Spain.
Click to expand...

The Swedes go right to left too don't they?

So in a 4-4-2:

1755794008043.webp

Ljungberg always wore #9 on the left.
 
Balham said:
Not quite. Depends where in the world you are.

It all stems from the evolution from 2-3-5. In that formation, it was quite straightforward in terms of numbers. 2 and 3 were full backs; 4 & 6 half backs; 5 centre back; 7 & 11 outside forwards, 8 & 10 inside forwards & 9 centre forward:
View attachment 219852

Different countries modified this when the changes in the offside law meant that more players needed to be in defence. In the UK, we moved the centre half and the left half back into the middle of the defensive line and the 7, 8 & 11 to join the 4 in a midfield four, leaving 9 & 10 as forwards:
View attachment 219847

In South America, however, things were different. Not only was 4-3-3 preferred but they'd moved different roles. 5 stayed as the central defensive midfielder in both Brazil and Argentina but the two defensive numbering systems were different:
Brazil:
View attachment 219848

Argentina:
View attachment 219849

In Spain (and a lot of Europe), it was different again with 2-4-5-3 being the defence and 6-8-10 being the midfield - hence those numbers now being used to describe a midfielder's role in the team:
View attachment 219850

Modern cases in point:
Javier Zanetti wearing 4 at RB for Argentina, Roberto Carlos wearing 6 at LB for Brazil with Lucío wearing 3 at CB. Xavi wearing 6 for Barcelona and Spain.
Click to expand...

Even in England some clubs chose to move back the right half back, ie number 4, and not the number 6. I think this happened more often if the club didn't have a left footed, defensively good number 6.

Unaware of the above I remember being confused as to why Man Utd had Steve Bruce wearing number 4 and Gary Pallister number 5 in the 90s. Was that always a Man Utd tradition?
 
Bergen Blade said:
Even in England some clubs chose to move back the right half back, ie number 4, and not the number 6. I think this happened more often if the club didn't have a left footed, defensively good number 6.

Unaware of the above I remember being confused as to why Man Utd had Steve Bruce wearing number 4 and Gary Pallister number 5 in the 90s. Was that always a Man Utd tradition?
Click to expand...
Liverpool always had centre backs as 4 and 6. Number 5 used to be left side midfield. Ray Kennedy or Ronnie Whelan spring to mind.
 
The best way of describing Chris Basham was a wing half and Mark Duffy an inside forward, positions come and go, based on tactics. I usually find we are debating three different positions when I see us discussing a 'winger' in the various chats, so you would not say a number 11. I just find the use of numbers to describe a player a bit useless, given we now have squad numbering. It's easier to say we want a holding midfielder alongside a box to box player. John Gannon was still a number 4 mind...
 
Bergen Blade said:
Even in England some clubs chose to move back the right half back, ie number 4, and not the number 6. I think this happened more often if the club didn't have a left footed, defensively good number 6.

Unaware of the above I remember being confused as to why Man Utd had Steve Bruce wearing number 4 and Gary Pallister number 5 in the 90s. Was that always a Man Utd tradition?
Click to expand...
Best and Law wore 7-11 inclusive during their time at Old Trafford. Law even wore #4 once apparently. Bobby Charlton wore them all but 7. All three wore 12 when subs came in, err as they were subs……

Hockey wore 6 for us, Powell 4. It was arbitrary back then.
 
Bergen Blade said:
Even in England some clubs chose to move back the right half back, ie number 4, and not the number 6. I think this happened more often if the club didn't have a left footed, defensively good number 6.

Unaware of the above I remember being confused as to why Man Utd had Steve Bruce wearing number 4 and Gary Pallister number 5 in the 90s. Was that always a Man Utd tradition?
Click to expand...
I think Pallister wore 6 and midfielders/ wingers such as Lee Sharpe wore 5
 

Balham said:
Not quite. Depends where in the world you are.

It all stems from the evolution from 2-3-5. In that formation, it was quite straightforward in terms of numbers. 2 and 3 were full backs; 4 & 6 half backs; 5 centre back; 7 & 11 outside forwards, 8 & 10 inside forwards & 9 centre forward:
View attachment 219852

Different countries modified this when the changes in the offside law meant that more players needed to be in defence. In the UK, we moved the centre half and the left half back into the middle of the defensive line and the 7, 8 & 11 to join the 4 in a midfield four, leaving 9 & 10 as forwards:
View attachment 219847

In South America, however, things were different. Not only was 4-3-3 preferred but they'd moved different roles. 5 stayed as the central defensive midfielder in both Brazil and Argentina but the two defensive numbering systems were different:
Brazil:
View attachment 219848

Argentina:
View attachment 219849

In Spain (and a lot of Europe), it was different again with 2-4-5-3 being the defence and 6-8-10 being the midfield - hence those numbers now being used to describe a midfielder's role in the team:
View attachment 219850

Modern cases in point:
Javier Zanetti wearing 4 at RB for Argentina, Roberto Carlos wearing 6 at LB for Brazil with Lucío wearing 3 at CB. Xavi wearing 6 for Barcelona and Spain.
Click to expand...
Just printed this out for the wife. She loves a sudoku puzzle.
It should keep her occupied while I catch up with what I've missed in the rumours forum.
 
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