The midfield three now McAtee is here...

[Steve Mackan]

Thought I'd flag this article published in The Pinch today - Evolution, Revolution: our midfield future.

There's an assumption, I think, that we just go Souza, Hamer, McAtee. Personally, I think it's odd how Norwood has become something of a minor scapegoat over the past season and a bit. And this piece puts his role and value to the team into some proper content. TL;DR: Without Doyle and Berge, Norwood is important + if you want to put Hamer into Norwood's deeper-lying position, then how do you expect him to score and create the goals he has done already this season? (It's not uncritical of Norwood either...).

It also highlights the (real?!) possibility that we have the personnel to play four-at-the-back. Something we haven't done in 7 years (barring Slav and 1x defeat to Stoke under Hecky).

The author (Riley) is great. And since Blades Analytics went pro, we've missed out on a bit of data stuff amongst the Blades content creators. So nice to see someone giving that a go...

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Against Spurs I'd be more inclined to play Souza and Norwood central with Hamer and McAtee out wide and McBurnie up front on his own. Spurs are fast and will run right through us, so this gives the back five a bit more protection.

 

[Steve Mackan]

Against Spurs I'd be more inclined to play Souza and Norwood central with Hamer and McAtee out wide and McBurnie up front on his own. Spurs are fast and will run right through us, so this gives the back five a bit more protection.

And I think you touch on the answer to the Norwood question here... whether he plays or not is almost certainly going to depend on the game.

Interestingly, McBurnie played pretty deep against Everton (more like one of the two in a 3-4-2-1 than one of the two in a 3-5-2).

 

[bladesince64]

McBurnie is decent at linking up play in a slightly deeper role. I also think Norwood will benefit from having more aggressive, athletic midfielders around him.

McAtee may be used more in home games where we will go more attacking to get the wins/points we need.

 

[Silent Blade]

Against Spurs I'd be more inclined to play Souza and Norwood central with Hamer and McAtee out wide and McBurnie up front on his own. Spurs are fast and will run right through us, so this gives the back five a bit more protection.

Archer will be starting along with McBurnie. I expect McAtee to be on the bench at Spurs

 

[Gin&Juice]

Depends on McAtee’s versatility. Can he be a ball carrying box-to-box away from home and can he switch to playing the number 10 at home? I think he can. Depends if Hecky trusts him YET. Think till then it’s Norwood away from home.

Be interesting if Davies plays, as he wants to be box-to-box.

If all are fit, it gives Hecky some flexibility at least.

 

[Steve Mackan]

Archer will be starting along with McBurnie. I expect McAtee to be on the bench at Spurs

I think that's probably right.

Depends on McAtee’s versatility. Can he be a ball carrying box-to-box away from home and can he switch to playing the number 10 at home? I think he can. Depends if Hecky trusts him YET. Think till then it’s Norwood away from home.

Be interesting if Davies plays, as he wants to be box-to-box.

If all are fit, it gives Hecky some flexibility at least.

Don't think he plays box-to-box. The facts are, you can't fit McAtee, Souza, Hamer and Norwood into a 3-man midfield. If we keep playing a variation of the 3-5-2 (mostly 3-4-2-1) then I expect McAtee is here to play as part of a front 3x, and will more often than not rotate with McBurnie and Archer. Otherwise, we're reverting to a Wilder Championship 3-4-1-2 with McAtee in a Duffy-ish role, and I just don't see that.

The interesting variation would be if we did - after all this time - turn to a 4-a-t-b:

 

[Wards]

View attachment 170878

Egan isn't getting left out any time soon, otherwise looks ok. Think we'd be a bit daft to try it against Spurs mind. Remember listening to one of our lot last year saying we tend to go with the 3 atb cos we do it better/more often than anyone else. I don't see us unnecessarily changing that at one of our most difficult away games of the season but never say never!

 

[Slim Man]

Whilever Norwood and Souza start together in our current system/formation we will continue to get ran through. Both want to play centrally and there's a glaring gap on the right. Totally exposing the right hand side.

And out of those two, there's only one option.

 

[Steve Mackan]

Egan isn't getting left out any time soon, otherwise looks ok. Think we'd be a bit daft to try it against Spurs mind. Remember listening to one of our lot last year saying we tend to go with the 3 atb cos we do it better/more often than anyone else. I don't see us unnecessarily changing that at one of our most difficult away games of the season but never say never!

No, I certainly don't see it changing for Spurs. But perhaps it's part of the longer term thinking.

I note that this season there's been a massive reduction in teams playing 3-atb formations.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

I can't see Souza as a wide player, he needs to play central. I'd rather Hecky made a brave call and choose between Norwood or Souza then try to out square pegs in round holes.

 

[Steve Mackan]

Don't think anyone's suggesting playing him wide! We literally have no wide midfielders/wingers in the club.

 

[ancientblade]

playing 4 at the back which im pretty sure wont happen would get us that extra body in midfield and would certainly give us more possesion in this league playing 5 at the back although being solid would mean maximum 30%/70% possesion stats against us most games

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

Don't think anyone's suggesting playing him wide! We literally have no wide midfielders/wingers in the club.

You’ve put him on the right of Norwood on your graphic. He’s expected to contribute going forward if played there. He isn’t very good going forward. He‘s a big shithouse cunt of a DM. Getting this area of the team sorted and settled could be the difference between survival/relegation. Norwood has neither the presence or calmness to master that role at this level.

 

[Jan Age]

Don't think anyone's suggesting playing him wide! We literally have no wide midfielders/wingers in the club.

Jayden Bogle

 

[LBA_Blade]

No, I certainly don't see it changing for Spurs. But perhaps it's part of the longer term thinking.

I note that this season there's been a massive reduction in teams playing 3-atb formations.

Definitely seen that too, the novelty has worn off of been caught on the counter. The old park the bus at the back with small-mid range passes seems to be this seasons rotation. The overlapping centre backs and other stuff was great to watch although we didn't get battered by Man City playing if we played a straight 3 at the back we do leave ourselves vulnerable especially against the better sides

 

[Steve Mackan]

Definitely seen that too, the novelty has worn off of been caught on the counter. The old park the bus at the back with small-mid range passes seems to be this seasons rotation. The overlapping centre backs and other stuff was great to watch although we didn't get battered by Man City playing if we played a straight 3 at the back we do leave ourselves vulnerable especially against the better sides

Yep. I think it's about offensive issues too. Teams playing 3-atb score fewer goals.

 

[Steve Mackan]

You’ve put him on the right of Norwood on your graphic. He’s expected to contribute going forward if played there. He isn’t very good going forward. He‘s a big shithouse cunt of a DM. Getting this area of the team sorted and settled could be the difference between survival/relegation. Norwood has neither the presence or calmness to master that role at this level.

Sorry for the confusion. It's a narrow diamond of 4x central midfield players. He's to the right of Norwood on the graphic, yes. But a wide diamond, with wide midfielders would look more like this in my head:

 

[FriethBlade]

I'm going against the grain for the Spurs game. Set up not to get beat and we will lose. They have too many good players for us to hang on for 100 minutes.

I'd go more attacking and see if we can knick one. I don't want us trying not to get beat in all our away games v tje top half. Its only a point anyway if its succeeds so let's gamble and see if we can knick the occasional 3 points.

My 11 for Spurs
Wes
Basham Anel Robbo
Baldock Hamer Souza Macca Thomas
Archer McBurnie

With Souza sitting in front of the back 3

 

[Nick Jansky]

I'm going against the grain for the Spurs game. Set up not to get beat and we will lose. They have too many good players for us to hang on for 100 minutes.

I'd go more attacking and see if we can knick one. I don't want us trying not to get beat in all our away games v tje top half. Its only a point anyway if its succeeds so let's gamble and see if we can knick the occasional 3 points.

My 11 for Spurs
Wes
Basham Anel Robbo
Baldock Hamer Souza Macca Thomas
Archer McBurnie

With Souza sitting in front of the back 3

Egan will be playing, but other than that I’d go with the same.

 

[ancientblade]

Yep. I think it's about offensive issues too. Teams playing 3-atb score fewer goals.

would agree now weve got souza to protect our centre backs i see no reason why we cant play 4 at the back and get an extra body in midfield it would certainly help our possesion stats and stop teams getting through us too easily

 

[Nick Jansky]

would agree now weve got souza to protect our centre backs i see no reason why we cant play 4 at the back and get an extra body in midfield it would certainly help our possesion stats and stop teams getting through us too easily

The reason is that we only have one CH who could play in a 2.

 

[bonobo]

I think Norwood will be playing for the next month or so. We know Hecky likes the 3-4-3, but I think he will want to make sure all the new players are well drilled in the teams shape and system, before he loses that extra body in central midfield or drops Hamer deeper. It's a huge ask for a promoted team to make so many changes to their starting line up, we see how Forest struggled last year even after spending 200k and what a mess Burnley have been so far. I think long term we maybe looking at two set ups depending on opposition with the 3 in mid Souza, Davies, Hamer (more advanced), or the 3-4-3 with Souza/Hamer then Mcburnie/Archer/McAtee. I was never that convinced with McAtee in midfield last season, I thought he was much more effective in the front 3. But a full summer can see a big development in a young player, physically and tactically, particular with 2.5 months on the training ground with Pep, so it will be interesting to how McAtee has developed. Having said that Spurs might be the game where you gamble a more attacking line up, they can concede goals and space and our best bet might be to get them on the back door early.

 

[Charlieblade]

Whilever Norwood and Souza start together in our current system/formation we will continue to get ran through. Both want to play centrally and there's a glaring gap on the right. Totally exposing the right hand side.

And out of those two, there's only one option.

I suggest you read the options presented in todays article ‘The Pinch’. It discusses a number of options for our midfield formation, past, present and future.

The author is a declared Norwood fan, but prepared to consider options without him. I assumed that our current plans would not include Norwood outside a good back up role this season, but ‘The Pinch’ article was very well considered.

 

[Russtheblade]

Against Spurs I'd be more inclined to play Souza and Norwood central with Hamer and McAtee out wide and McBurnie up front on his own. Spurs are fast and will run right through us, so this gives the back five a bit more protection.

Archer will play every game when fit

 

[Stretch]

I am fairly sure that eventually it will be:

--------------Souza---------------
---Hamer------------McAttee--

I stress eventually, because despite what some folk might think, Norwood is still vitally important due to his rage of passing. So it gives Hecky a headache for the timebeing, if he chooses to play two up front, because we ain't switching to a back four anytime soon.

 

[Hamandcheese]

We have a very clear first choice 3, and it's a great balance

McAtee should also go straight in at Spurs. We've already missed him for 4 games, let's not make it 5. Especially if we see this as the shot to nothing it probably is. Use it to get him reintegrated ASAP

 

[Nick Jansky]

, Norwood is still vitally important due to his rage of passing.

Aye, sometimes a pass executed in excessive anger is exactly what’s needed. Gets the blood pumping.

 

[Stretch]

Aye, sometimes a pass executed in excessive anger is exactly what’s needed. Gets the blood pumping.

I noticed that after the edit deadline had passed, but then thought it sounded quite good

 

[Nick Jansky]

I noticed that after the edit deadline had passed, but then thought it sounded quite good

It does!