The message from the board is clear: Failure is unacceptable

[SwissBlade]

I'm not sure he'd get the chance. This would mean we are probably sitting in 6/7th most of the season and not accumulating a shed load of points - would he survive that?

The alternatives are a good start with a major drop off - probably gets sacked somewhere in the drop off. Or crap start and finish strongly - he probably doesn`t survive the poor start.

It comes back to the expectation of the owners. The fans obviously want to see the team kick on from this really strong season we've had, build on it. But if the owners are willing to take the hit on potentially not going up and losing the massive parachute payments next season, as a sacrifice for a longer term build, then they may offer this rhetoric. I can't see that, they'd be mad to throw this next season away and i can see it being much more of a panic if things aren't going great. Obviously this is doom mongering, but the scenario's which you highlight could be realistic as well. We just don't know currently.

Personally i think the three coming down will be in the Auto's mix (Southampton, Leicester and Ipswich) and because of their resources, Birmingham have the money to compete, but it'll be interesting to see how they start. They were obviously strong in League one. Then from the rest of last seasons top 10 - Coventry, Bristol City, Blackburn, Millwall, West Brom and Boro I don't see any of them sustaining a real top 2 bid for the season, but yes they can be disrupters in the divisions play off zone. You might be able to stick Wrexham in that top 10, again if they spend well.

If you'd asked me a couple of weeks ago where we'd be sitting, i'd have said in that Top 3/4 group, pushing for top 2, provided we didn't sell too many (some sales are inevitable and probably neccessary to freshen things up) and we invested in the back 4. Right now, before we appoint Selles, i think we're probably looking more realistically at between 4th-8th.

 

[Varkanoid]

Another viewpoint if we get Selles
or another manager McBurnie won't be coming back. Silver linings and all that.

If its also true and the owners are stats driven they want top two auto positions as stats show we don't win playoffs

 

[ChezVegasBlade]

My take is that following the failure to be promoted last season, the board are now taking a long view and Selles brief is not necessarily instant promotion, but to build a (young) team capable of Premier league survival with a few additions. Be interesting to see what the recruitment strategy is now.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

If its also true and the owners are stats driven they want top two auto positions as stats show we don't win playoffs

That's a bit of a silly interpretation.

If you're going to go down that road then you could say that stats have shown that Sheffield United have failed to get promoted from the Championship in all but 3 seasons since the turn of the Millennium. If we're going to rule out the play offs because of past failings, we might as well rule out automatic promotion too.

 

[Nick Jansky]

If its also true and the owners are stats driven they want top two auto positions as stats show we don't win playoffs

Stats show we haven’t won playoffs so far. But as Wilder said, one day we will.

I don’t pretend to understand stats, but isn’t it the case that the probability of winning them increases each time we’re in them? Perhaps someone who understands this stuff can tell us.

 

[Alex Cheeseright]

OP here is SPOT ON.... A few of us on here have mentioned our experience of working for US owned businesses and it is brutal. As stated above - they have virtually no sentiments and if you miss your targets / objectives - you are gone very quickly within senior management. If you are successful & achieve your targets though they are very generous and reward staff. For them coming 'so close' is failure.......

Sad for Chris in some ways as he saved us in 2016 and actually to a lesser extent again last summer after Prince A had basically run out of cashflow which left us threadbare. He can leave with his head held high though.

I've worked for American businesses for over 30 years and to some degree Udders is right. However, most businesses in the US are badly run but have a great image to the public as being well run. Failure is usually down to the stock market numbers as a sign of success. I've worked for companies that have kept useless CEOs but they manage a great image and thus stocks are stable to decent. They say that the numbers don't lie, well in business, yes they do.
So if we are going in with this analytical approach to recruitment.....be careful of the numbers.
I'm not saying that numbers are the" be all and end all" but Americans do love their numbers!!
P.s. the also love money too. So the phrase "you have to spend a dollar to make a dollar" is also a business staple. Let's hope they spend a lot of dollars!

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

Stats show we haven’t won playoffs so far. But as Wilder said, one day we will.

I don’t pretend to understand stats, but isn’t it the case that the probability of winning them increases each time we’re in them? Perhaps someone who understands this stuff can tell us.

I used to know a guy who, if you ever quoted a stat at him like "we haven't lost at home to this team in 25 years" he'd say "ah, then we're due!"

But I think it is the case that while it becomes statistically less and less likely that any long run of results like this continues, at the same time this still doesn't affect the probability of winning/losing/drawing any given match in isolation.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Yeah you're right.
Probably any idiot could get us up.
Much like Luton did..

We're not Luton. We finished third. A jump of one place is all we need. With another window that shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[skegblade]

No. And most managers or owners wouldn't buy one purely on AI and put him in the team.
It depends how against it in any shape or form he is. That could be part of the reason. Or maybe they just had a punch up in California on a night out and they sacked him. Who knows..

If as suggested it was a board signing it totally undermines cw, my bet is after a argument of hes not in my plans... led to his sacking
Dont think h3 had the balks to just resign and walk,which would put him in good strad with a lot of teams
He wont be out of a job long 1st sacking next season he would be in the framr

 

[Nick Jansky]

If as suggested it was a board signing it totally undermines cw, my bet is after a argument of hes not in my plans... led to his sacking
Dont think h3 had the balks to just resign and walk,which would put him in good strad with a lot of teams
He wont be out of a job long 1st sacking next season he would be in the framr

Depends on his appetite. I could see him at a Championship club with a medium level budget who aspire to make the play offs. I think he’d be a good fit at somewhere like Millwall.

I could also see him at Rotherham at some point.

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

I used to know a guy who, if you ever quoted a stat at him like "we haven't lost at home to this team in 25 years" he'd say "ah, then we're due!"

But I think it is the case that while it becomes statistically less and less likely that any long run of results like this continues, at the same time this still doesn't affect the probability of winning/losing/drawing any given match in isolation.

Like a coin toss. The previous outcomes have no impact on the probability of the next spin. I just think we'll lose every single play off final we're in even if the club is still going in 300 years personally.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Like a coin toss. The previous outcomes have no impact on the probability of the next spin. I just think we'll lose every single play off final we're in even if the club is still going in 300 years personally.

I’d hate to have that mindset.

 

[GeorgeDonis1889]

I’d hate to have that mindset.

I'd hate to have your mindset. Result for both of us

 

[Nick Jansky]

I'd hate to have your mindset. Result for both of us

What do you think my mindset is?

I’ll go first. I think your a pessimist.

 

[alcoblade]

Stats show we haven’t won playoffs so far. But as Wilder said, one day we will.

I don’t pretend to understand stats, but isn’t it the case that the probability of winning them increases each time we’re in them? Perhaps someone who understands this stuff can tell us.

Sadly not. Similar to your plane being no more likely to crash because its the 1000'th flight you've taken.

 

[S64 Blade]

Sorry, yes, I should’ve said that the expectation of fans is for top 2 since 3rd was a failure

I see the appointment as promotion or nothing.

I’d say it’s all dependent on how the season plays out.

We were in the top two for the majority of last season and bottled it at the end. We were also one of the 3 to have come down, so the expectations were higher than they will be for next season when we have another new 3.

If we go the majority of next season in the top two and finish third and lose in the play offs again, it will be a failure again as we’ll have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

If we start badly, like the Jokanovic season, sack Selles (or whoever it’ll be) and sneak in the play-offs despite being 16th in late October, it’ll be seen to have been a decent season.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I don't think I've ever seen a professional football club that accepts failure. Wilson was sacked in the play off positions, Clough was sacked for losing the play offs, Adkins was sacked for not making them. Hecky was sacked in the PL despite having his hands tied.

Yeah but that doesn’t fit the narrative of ‘ruthless Americans’!

 

[SwissBlade]

I’d say it’s all dependent on how the season plays out.

We were in the top two for the majority of last season and bottled it at the end. We were also one of the 3 to have come down, so the expectations were higher than they will be for next season when we have another new 3.

If we go the majority of next season in the top two and finish third and lose in the play offs again, it will be a failure again as we’ll have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

If we start badly, like the Jokanovic season, sack Selles (or whoever it’ll be) and sneak in the play-offs despite being 16th in late October, it’ll be seen to have been a decent season.

The start is important, I think last season the expectation was lower, because it was such a shocker the season before, we expected a wounded animal and yet we set about the season brilliantly. Perhaps the change of ownership was also a welcomed distraction, but it didn't need to be

 

[Houston_Blade]

Sorry, yes, I should’ve said that the expectation of fans is for top 2 since 3rd was a failure

I see the appointment as promotion or nothing.

With the budget and squad we had last season 3rd place was bare minimum and promotion should have been achieved.

There’ll be bigger budgets than us next season so the variables change whoever is in charge.

 

[Nick Jansky]

With the budget and squad we had last season 3rd place was bare minimum and promotion should have been achieved.

There’ll be bigger budgets than us next season so the variables change whoever is in charge.

Yes, very different division. The three relegated teams, Birmingham and Wrexham with money, and at least one team will break through from the pack.

 

[SwissBlade]

With the budget and squad we had last season 3rd place was bare minimum and promotion should have been achieved.

There’ll be bigger budgets than us next season so the variables change whoever is in charge.

yes and no, its not that simple.

The summer budget and assembly of the new playing squad wasn't a given, there were changes in the ownership which took longer than planned and I think i'm right in saying that the Prince had to step in, reluctantly to ensure that there was a squad in place. I know that, for example, the womens side was almost not in a position to make it to the first day of the season, not sure how that panned out in the end in terms of players, but there were a lot of things at play which meant it wasn't as straight forward as having a pot of money to go spend and assemble a team.

I am assuming that some of the additional negotiations between the Prince and COH late on were about this additional input from the Prince, but that is based on nothing more than a personal assumption.

 

[dingledog]

We can all speculate, and there have been some excellent observations on this forum. My thoughts today are that Wilder knew he was gone at the playoff final, his whole demeanor was complete dejection, no brave face. Obviously he was gutted to loses, but I wonder if he knew the clause in the 4 year contract had just come into force, the one that said if no promotion you are history. Just more speculation on my part here, I have no knowledge of this being the case.

 

[TexasBlade]

OP here is SPOT ON.... A few of us on here have mentioned our experience of working for US owned businesses and it is brutal. As stated above - they have virtually no sentiments and if you miss your targets / objectives - you are gone very quickly within senior management. If you are successful & achieve your targets though they are very generous and reward staff. For them coming 'so close' is failure.......

Sad for Chris in some ways as he saved us in 2016 and actually to a lesser extent again last summer after Prince A had basically run out of cashflow which left us threadbare. He can leave with his head held high though.

Totally agree - I managed to work for a US company for 35 years but they are very results based and want a return on their money. The Tom Cannon debacle and the run of losses as well as clutching defeat from victory in the playoff final will have sealed Chris Wilder’s fate!

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

If as suggested it was a board signing it totally undermines cw, my bet is after a argument of hes not in my plans... led to his sacking
Dont think h3 had the balks to just resign and walk,which would put him in good strad with a lot of teams
He wont be out of a job long 1st sacking next season he would be in the framr

It's only undermining if that's how he takes it. He could also say, this is how my employer wants to run things, I'll go with it.
If he doesn't , fair enough. Then it's right they part ways.

 

[Houston_Blade]

yes and no, its not that simple.

The summer budget and assembly of the new playing squad wasn't a given, there were changes in the ownership which took longer than planned and I think i'm right in saying that the Prince had to step in, reluctantly to ensure that there was a squad in place. I know that, for example, the womens side was almost not in a position to make it to the first day of the season, not sure how that panned out in the end in terms of players, but there were a lot of things at play which meant it wasn't as straight forward as having a pot of money to go spend and assemble a team.

I am assuming that some of the additional negotiations between the Prince and COH late on were about this additional input from the Prince, but that is based on nothing more than a personal assumption.

Agreed, but our squad and the players in it likely earned the 3rd highest wages in the division and we paid some fees for the likes of Moore, Burrows, Cooper and then Cannon. We had Hamer and Souza, again not cheap wages and would walk into most of the other teams in the league. We weren’t a cheaply assembled team by any means.

I think because we got Campbell and O’Hare for nowt everyone assumes we wheeled and dealed. I know the Osula money went towards fees but the board still allowed the manager to spend it, they could have battened down the hatches until the takeover.

 

[Tom Bott]

I think jokanovich was a good coach but without the cash he flopped.

As are Hecky and Wilder, who started with little funds last summer.

Jokanovich has managed 10 clubs but only stayed with 2 for over 60 games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaviša_Jokanović

 

[SwissBlade]

Agreed, but our squad and the players in it likely earned the 3rd highest wages in the division and we paid some fees for the likes of Moore, Burrows, Cooper and then Cannon. We had Hamer and Souza, again not cheap wages and would walk into most of the other teams in the league. We weren’t a cheaply assembled team by any means.

I think because we got Campbell and O’Hare for nowt everyone assumes we wheeled and dealed. I know the Osula money went towards fees but the board still allowed the manager to spend it, they could have battened down the hatches until the takeover.

Yeah fair point

 

[Bladesince59]

They were going to sack Wilder whether or not we were promoted. They don't rate him for not beating Sunderland and they certainly wouldn't have rated him to keep us in the PL. They are ruthless for sure and that is a huge positive.

 

[Frank the tank]

We did come third. Then we lost a one off game. It's that short term mentality that's a huge part of football's problem.

We finished fourth In a three horse race

 

[GymClassHero]

Except we don't know the reasons. It's as likely CW wouldn't get on board with their new plans and methods, and it forced their hand.
Could be what you've said, or something else. But we don't know and might never find out.

I disagree. By all accounts, the board were split 50/50 over the decision but ultimately the failure to secure promotion from such a strong position, despite full backing in the JTW has cost him his job.