The message from the board is clear: Failure is unacceptable

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FMBlade1

FMBlade1

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I'm not going to discuss the merits of replacing Wilder and replacing him with Selles as there's loads of other threads on that, this is looking at it from another angle.

Assuming it does take place, it shows a real level of ruthlessness from the board which may be designed to address the culture of failure our club has had over the past few decades.

As per these threads (not going to bump them up don't worry), poor ownership and bad decision making were one of the key factors we have attributed to our failures:

FMBlade1

Thread '100 years without a trophy, 10 failed play-off attempts, why have we underachieved as a football club?'

Following on from this thread:

https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/the-loser-mentality-at-this-club.103699/

I thought to put some of the reasons offered onto a poll and let people contribute- you can pick more up to three options as well as rejecting the premise of the question.

There will be some strong disagreements and perhaps its all of them to an extent but will be interesting to see what people think are the top three main factors.

There are things we have done well (our academy) and we have had a few good cup runs, so this poll/thread isn't designed to slag people off...
  • Like

FMBlade1

Thread 'The loser mentality at this club'

This isn't a dig at anyone at the club but consider that:

- We haven't won a trophy in 100 years

- We've lost in 10 play-off attempts

- We are the largest club in Europe to have never qualified to play in any European competition.

- We are continuously adversely affected by ridiculous situations (COVID, Tevez, Evans, Segers etc.)

- We continuously bottle the big games.

There's something very wrong with our club in this regard, is there anything that can be done to change it?
  • Like

These American new owners clearly are not going to tolerate valiantly falling short anymore and will hold people accountable and ruthlessly get rid of them. It therefore wouldn't surprise me if the signing of Tom Cannon also leads to repercussions to those who signed off on/recommended it, for example.

Now this approach can be taken to extremes- Watford continuously sack ever manager who does not immediately get them promoted and have no stability whatsoever.

If Wilder is replaced the message is clear; no room for sentimentality and failure to achieve goals is unacceptable- no matter the circumstances.

This decision may lead to a significant culture change for the club for the better.
 

I don't mind ruthlessness but there has to be a clear plan and expectations otherwise it just looks like its eccentric or crazy.

If the board want to take the club in a new direction, great, don't mind that. But it has to be more than just a change of manager. Are we going all the way and bringing in a director of football. what style of football will we be building into the clubs recruitment and model.

By the end of June, I am hoping that plan and direction becomes clear. It feels like we have glimpses of it but not quite sure on the whole plan at the moment.

So much potential within the club, looking forward to seeing what develops
 
FMBlade1 said:
I'm not going to discuss the merits of replacing Wilder and replacing him with Selles as there's loads of other threads on that, this is looking at it from another angle.

Assuming it does take place, it shows a real level of ruthlessness from the board which may be designed to address the culture of failure our club has had over the past few decades.

As per these threads (not going to bump them up don't worry), poor ownership and bad decision making were one of the key factors we have attributed to our failures:

FMBlade1

Thread '100 years without a trophy, 10 failed play-off attempts, why have we underachieved as a football club?'

Following on from this thread:

https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/the-loser-mentality-at-this-club.103699/

I thought to put some of the reasons offered onto a poll and let people contribute- you can pick more up to three options as well as rejecting the premise of the question.

There will be some strong disagreements and perhaps its all of them to an extent but will be interesting to see what people think are the top three main factors.

There are things we have done well (our academy) and we have had a few good cup runs, so this poll/thread isn't designed to slag people off...
  • Like

FMBlade1

Thread 'The loser mentality at this club'

This isn't a dig at anyone at the club but consider that:

- We haven't won a trophy in 100 years

- We've lost in 10 play-off attempts

- We are the largest club in Europe to have never qualified to play in any European competition.

- We are continuously adversely affected by ridiculous situations (COVID, Tevez, Evans, Segers etc.)

- We continuously bottle the big games.

There's something very wrong with our club in this regard, is there anything that can be done to change it?
  • Like

These American new owners clearly are not going to tolerate valiantly falling short anymore and will hold people accountable and ruthlessly get rid of them. It therefore wouldn't surprise me if the signing of Tom Cannon also leads to repercussions to those who signed off on/recommended it, for example.

Now this approach can be taken to extremes- Watford continuously sack ever manager who does not immediately get them promoted and have no stability whatsoever.

If Wilder is replaced the message is clear; no room for sentimentality and failure to achieve goals is unacceptable- no matter the circumstances.

This decision may lead to a significant culture change for the club for the better.
Click to expand...
A manager needs to be backed to bring in the players which fit his playing style or the style he wants to play to achieve success.

Let’s hope that this move, which is effectively a gamble to achieve top 2, works
 
OP here is SPOT ON.... A few of us on here have mentioned our experience of working for US owned businesses and it is brutal. As stated above - they have virtually no sentiments and if you miss your targets / objectives - you are gone very quickly within senior management. If you are successful & achieve your targets though they are very generous and reward staff. For them coming 'so close' is failure.......

Sad for Chris in some ways as he saved us in 2016 and actually to a lesser extent again last summer after Prince A had basically run out of cashflow which left us threadbare. He can leave with his head held high though.
 
23 other clubs in the division start out every year with the same mission & also have ruthless board members . 21 of these ‘fail’ every season & opt for frequent manager turnaround & changes in direction only to find they ‘fail’ again .
Perhaps we should have looked a bit closer to home with the team 30 miles up the road ..kept continuity & reaped the rewards the following season? ⚔️
 
FMBlade1 said:
That said we still have lots of good players so a major overall in the squad shouldn't be necessary and Selles (or whoever) shouldn't be demanding a massive budget.
Click to expand...
Agree with this, although we will need to see who leaves. our bigger names if they go will need replacing and even that will be interesting to see who is identified and targeted.

So far there are rumours (and who knows for sure) about:
Hamer
Souza
Anel
Peck
Blaster
I am also wondering where this leaves Brewster's new contract offer... Not that I am that fussed either way, but I think Wilder would have been more keen on keeping him.

We tend to get some big loans in as well and will the board go down the same route or prefer to say, use what you have got.

Good example last season is Rak-Sakyi. Will we get another like him or will the manager be told, you have Brooks, you have some development players, make the most of what you have.
 
UddersBlade said:
OP here is SPOT ON.... A few of us on here have mentioned our experience of working for US owned businesses and it is brutal. As stated above - they have virtually no sentiments and if you miss your targets / objectives - you are gone very quickly within senior management. If you are successful & achieve your targets though they are very generous and reward staff. For them coming 'so close' is failure.......

Sad for Chris in some ways as he saved us in 2016 and actually to a lesser extent again last summer after Prince A had basically run out of cashflow which left us threadbare. He can leave with his head held high though.
Click to expand...

Absolutely- whilst no-one expects DOGE/Steve Jobs-style cuts, I wouldn't be surprised if they are taking a complete evaluation of everyone working at the club from the coaches to the retail staff and make further decisions based off their assessments.

If those behind the till can't pour pints quickly enough I expect they won't be in their post for long (for example).
 
All well and good being ‘ruthless’ but it can and often does go way too far. Watford being a prime example who seem to think manager of the month is something you win when you get one… Spuds sacking Ange after winning them their first European trophy in 40+ years & Hulls owner chucking Rosenior in the bin for seemingly being too good?

We’re going to try and replace a manager who has a bonkers win rate with us to get their own guy in. That fails & this change will look like a disaster - don’t think it’s quite shit or bust just yet but next season is probably our most important season for many a year. Don’t go up and we’re going to be in a precarious financial situation as parachute payments dry up & PSR will come sniffing.

Big decision replacing Wilder - I hope we don’t come to regret it.
 
SwissBlade said:
A manager needs to be backed to bring in the players which fit his playing style or the style he wants to play to achieve success.

Let’s hope that this move, which is effectively a gamble to achieve top 2, works
Click to expand...
I’m not sure I necessarily see Selles as a long term appointment. I think his primary role might be to oversee a period of evolution and change in the way that the club operates and, if it delivers results quickly, then brilliant. Otherwise, he might be a transitional appointment.

But I also see this as the beginning of an era change that will have inevitable teething problems and will not be completed overnight. So, although I think he will be targeted to win promotion (not necessarily top 2) this season I don’t see that they are necessarily gambling on that being critical. I’m viewing this as being a first step in a medium term project of change.

But I actually have no idea, these are just my thoughts. I’m fascinated to see what develops though, and really looking forward to the new season, whatever it might bring.
 
FMBlade1 said:
I'm not going to discuss the merits of replacing Wilder and replacing him with Selles as there's loads of other threads on that, this is looking at it from another angle.

Assuming it does take place, it shows a real level of ruthlessness from the board which may be designed to address the culture of failure our club has had over the past few decades.

As per these threads (not going to bump them up don't worry), poor ownership and bad decision making were one of the key factors we have attributed to our failures:

FMBlade1

Thread '100 years without a trophy, 10 failed play-off attempts, why have we underachieved as a football club?'

Following on from this thread:

https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/the-loser-mentality-at-this-club.103699/

I thought to put some of the reasons offered onto a poll and let people contribute- you can pick more up to three options as well as rejecting the premise of the question.

There will be some strong disagreements and perhaps its all of them to an extent but will be interesting to see what people think are the top three main factors.

There are things we have done well (our academy) and we have had a few good cup runs, so this poll/thread isn't designed to slag people off...
  • Like

FMBlade1

Thread 'The loser mentality at this club'

This isn't a dig at anyone at the club but consider that:

- We haven't won a trophy in 100 years

- We've lost in 10 play-off attempts

- We are the largest club in Europe to have never qualified to play in any European competition.

- We are continuously adversely affected by ridiculous situations (COVID, Tevez, Evans, Segers etc.)

- We continuously bottle the big games.

There's something very wrong with our club in this regard, is there anything that can be done to change it?
  • Like

These American new owners clearly are not going to tolerate valiantly falling short anymore and will hold people accountable and ruthlessly get rid of them. It therefore wouldn't surprise me if the signing of Tom Cannon also leads to repercussions to those who signed off on/recommended it, for example.

Now this approach can be taken to extremes- Watford continuously sack ever manager who does not immediately get them promoted and have no stability whatsoever.

If Wilder is replaced the message is clear; no room for sentimentality and failure to achieve goals is unacceptable- no matter the circumstances.

This decision may lead to a significant culture change for the club for the better.
Click to expand...
I don't think I've ever seen a professional football club that accepts failure. Wilson was sacked in the play off positions, Clough was sacked for losing the play offs, Adkins was sacked for not making them. Hecky was sacked in the PL despite having his hands tied.
 
Nick Jansky said:
I’m not sure I necessarily see Selles as a long term appointment. I think his primary role might be to oversee a period of evolution and change in the way that the club operates and, if it delivers results quickly, then brilliant. Otherwise, he might be a transitional appointment.

But I also see this as the beginning of an era change that will have inevitable teething problems and will not be completed overnight. So, although I think he will be targeted to win promotion (not necessarily top 2) this season I don’t see that they are necessarily gambling on that being critical. I’m viewing this as being a first step in a medium term project of change.

But I actually have no idea, these are just my thoughts. I’m fascinated to see what develops though, and really looking forward to the new season, whatever it might bring.
Click to expand...
Sorry, yes, I should’ve said that the expectation of fans is for top 2 since 3rd was a failure

I see the appointment as promotion or nothing.
 
FMBlade1 said:
I'm not going to discuss the merits of replacing Wilder and replacing him with Selles as there's loads of other threads on that, this is looking at it from another angle.

Assuming it does take place, it shows a real level of ruthlessness from the board which may be designed to address the culture of failure our club has had over the past few decades.

As per these threads (not going to bump them up don't worry), poor ownership and bad decision making were one of the key factors we have attributed to our failures:

FMBlade1

Thread '100 years without a trophy, 10 failed play-off attempts, why have we underachieved as a football club?'

Following on from this thread:

https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/the-loser-mentality-at-this-club.103699/

I thought to put some of the reasons offered onto a poll and let people contribute- you can pick more up to three options as well as rejecting the premise of the question.

There will be some strong disagreements and perhaps its all of them to an extent but will be interesting to see what people think are the top three main factors.

There are things we have done well (our academy) and we have had a few good cup runs, so this poll/thread isn't designed to slag people off...
  • Like

FMBlade1

Thread 'The loser mentality at this club'

This isn't a dig at anyone at the club but consider that:

- We haven't won a trophy in 100 years

- We've lost in 10 play-off attempts

- We are the largest club in Europe to have never qualified to play in any European competition.

- We are continuously adversely affected by ridiculous situations (COVID, Tevez, Evans, Segers etc.)

- We continuously bottle the big games.

There's something very wrong with our club in this regard, is there anything that can be done to change it?
  • Like

These American new owners clearly are not going to tolerate valiantly falling short anymore and will hold people accountable and ruthlessly get rid of them. It therefore wouldn't surprise me if the signing of Tom Cannon also leads to repercussions to those who signed off on/recommended it, for example.

Now this approach can be taken to extremes- Watford continuously sack ever manager who does not immediately get them promoted and have no stability whatsoever.

If Wilder is replaced the message is clear; no room for sentimentality and failure to achieve goals is unacceptable- no matter the circumstances.

This decision may lead to a significant culture change for the club for the better.
Click to expand...

Yep. Promotion or you're out. It couldn't be clearer. I've followed their lead and adjusted my expectations to the same frequency. Not sure if you have to do it playing expansive, high scoring, entertaining football or if that's just a fan thing. That's where my expectations are at.
 

SwissBlade said:
Sorry, yes, I should’ve said that the expectation of fans is for top 2 since 3rd was a failure

I see the appointment as promotion or nothing.
Click to expand...
I think losing the playoffs was viewed as the failure rather than the 3rd place finish. The outcome is everything, and I expect they will view the playoffs as the legitimate route to promotion that it is.

But I agree that he will be gone if we don’t go up next season and think they will have priced that in. I don’t think it will necessarily be the end of the world if we don’t go up though. I think their aim might be to build something, obviously as quickly as possible, to achieve a sustainable promotion and that might take longer than a year.

As fans we might need to adjust our mindset and expectations away from the short termism of the past.
 
Selly said:
Which for us as a club effectively means top two or nothing.

Will be interesting to see how the reaction is around here if we are 7th - 12th in Oct/Nov
Click to expand...
I think we know what the reaction will be. There will be a mountain of tear drenched toys that have been hurled from prams and there will be calls for Wilder to come back.

The owners will completely ignore all of that, though.
 
I’m sure they understand the system in English football but I do think there’s an American mentality of second is the first loser. In this case third was irrelevant if you can’t win the playoffs which is one concept they understand well.
 
dexter101 said:
I don't mind ruthlessness but there has to be a clear plan and expectations otherwise it just looks like its eccentric or crazy.

If the board want to take the club in a new direction, great, don't mind that. But it has to be more than just a change of manager. Are we going all the way and bringing in a director of football. what style of football will we be building into the clubs recruitment and model.

By the end of June, I am hoping that plan and direction becomes clear. It feels like we have glimpses of it but not quite sure on the whole plan at the moment.

So much potential within the club, looking forward to seeing what develops
Click to expand...


This.
If your going to be ruthless. Then have a plan in place. We will hopefully see how the new owners seek to move us forward soon.
 
The fax machine will shortly confirm the new manager to be a robot. Everything will start okay then in true M3gan style Tom Davies will be taken out by a lawn mower after taking a swig from I Manager's Castrol GTX.
 
Nick Jansky said:
I think we know what the reaction will be. There will be a mountain of tear drenched toys that have been hurled from prams and there will be calls for Wilder to come back.

The owners will completely ignore all of that, though.
Click to expand...
That's started already.

'Don't worry, when the AI experiment inevitably fails, they'll be begging for Chrissie back'

Maybe paraphrasing slightly but that's the type of stuff on FB.

Another choice of argument making me laugh, 'we didn't ask for this, we didn't want him to go'
 
Nick Jansky said:
I think we know what the reaction will be. There will be a mountain of tear drenched toys that have been hurled from prams and there will be calls for Wilder to come back.

The owners will completely ignore all of that, though.
Click to expand...
But that’s the expectation the club is generating. In this instance
 
Cheeky Blade said:
So if Selles ( or whoever the board choose) fails to get promotion the board /owners resign?

Where does the ‘buck’ stop here?
Click to expand...

I think if we’re not in the autos or very close come December, Selles will be sacked.

He needs to beat CW’s points record / get promotion or it’s a failure and a c.£40m drop in revenue is on the cards.
 

SwissBlade said:
Sorry, yes, I should’ve said that the expectation of fans is for top 2 since 3rd was a failure

I see the appointment as promotion or nothing.
Click to expand...

Massive gamble, massive reward.

Let’s hope they spend big this summer, we get the business done early, and then it’s over to Selles to get us over the line.
 
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