The Long Game...

[stringjunior]

No, not the style Warnock advocates, but the patient rebuilding of a club from the ground up.

What if we kept Weir on and it didn't improve or perhaps got even worse right up till Christmas, then it all clicked and we improved until the end of the season and we finished outside the relegation zone?

And then imagine if next season we bossed the league and won automatic promotion playing quality attacking football....

Would we be happy?

Well, the journey would be tough, awful, especially up till Christmas, but from then on? I haven't been every week but I was at the Lane on Friday and whilst the majority of it was truly dire I thought there were some small glimpses of promise, occasionally, maybe, with a large pair of bladey blade specs on. If you could see in to the future (yes, i know you can't) and the future was rosy and included promotion with Weir at the helm, could you forgive the current glaring misdemeanors? I think I could.

There. I've said it...

*retreats in to Anderson Shelter and awaits the abuse*

 

[stringjunior]

not the style Warnock advocates

or more likely Bassett

 

[alcoblade]

If you could see in to the future (yes, i know you can't) and the future was rosy and included promotion with Weir at the helm, could you forgive the current glaring misdemeanors? I think I could.

There. I've said it...

*retreats in to Anderson Shelter and awaits the abuse*

But there's the problem. We can't see into the future, so we can only extrapolate from the facts in hand - which point to terrible outcomes.

IF it were just a case of putting up with half a season of shite for a brighter future, who wouldn't put up with it?

The only information we've got is we have the manager who will, without doubt, have the worst record of any manager in any tier of the professional game.

UTB

 

[Kenilworth]

Auntie
Bollocks
Uncle



.............. IF!

 

[stringjunior]

I know, I know, but maybe this is the approach our beloved leaders are taking...

 

[yorkshirecoast]

We could give Weir 5 years and things wouldn't get better unless he drastically changed his approach. His slow, negative style is abysmal. He sets his team up as if we are playing Barcelona every week. The players look confused and disinterested. His comments (for example seemingly pleased with a draw at home to the mighty Crawley) are embarrassing. He was given a fantastic opportunity in his first management job and has failed miserably. There's no point prolonging the agony.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

No, not the style Warnock advocates, but the patient rebuilding of a club from the ground up.

What if we kept Weir on and it didn't improve or perhaps got even worse right up till Christmas, then it all clicked and we improved until the end of the season and we finished outside the relegation zone?

And then imagine if next season we bossed the league and won automatic promotion playing quality attacking football....

Would we be happy?

Well, the journey would be tough, awful, especially up till Christmas, but from then on? I haven't been every week but I was at the Lane on Friday and whilst the majority of it was truly dire I thought there were some small glimpses of promise, occasionally, maybe, with a large pair of bladey blade specs on. If you could see in to the future (yes, i know you can't) and the future was rosy and included promotion with Weir at the helm, could you forgive the current glaring misdemeanors? I think I could.

There. I've said it...

*retreats in to Anderson Shelter and awaits the abuse*

Why can't we play quality, attacking football now? He's signed 12 players. How many more does he need to make it "click"?

 

[metalblade]

No, not the style Warnock advocates, but the patient rebuilding of a club from the ground up.

What if we kept Weir on and it didn't improve or perhaps got even worse right up till Christmas, then it all clicked and we improved until the end of the season and we finished outside the relegation zone?

And then imagine if next season we bossed the league and won automatic promotion playing quality attacking football....

more chance of me shagging Cheryl Cole

 

[Darren]

But there's the problem. We can't see into the future, so we can only extrapolate from the facts in hand - which point to terrible outcomes.

IF it were just a case of putting up with half a season of shite for a brighter future, who wouldn't put up with it?

The only information we've got is we have the manager who will, without doubt, have the worst record of any manager in any tier of the professional game.

UTB

What pisses me off is that, this season, our only realistic ambition now is to avoid relegation. We would need to average close on 2 points per game now to get in the play offs and it is more likely me and Metalblade get a threes up with Cheryl Cole than that happening.

So basically, even on a best case scenario, after ten games Weir has ensured we will have another season in Division 3

 

[WhiteHawk]

What pisses me off is that, this season, our only realistic ambition now is to avoid relegation. We would need to average close on 2 points per game now to get in the play offs

Christ you're right. 6th place got 74 points last season.

 

[blade too long]

heres a thought the last time we were relegated to division 4 , Rotherham went up that season , they won at Brentford on Saturday, scares the shit out of me how these things occur

 

[Jehovah]

The first game v Notts c we looked awesome. We created chance after chance and destroyed them. Since then we have looked pathetic for the most part and created virtually nothing in games. Hes going to get sacked probably without even trying two up front, so he's only himself to blame. I'm not saying it would work, but he can go just for being a stubborn git for me.

 

[Sheff de party]

No, not the style Warnock advocates, but the patient rebuilding of a club from the ground up.

What if we kept Weir on and it didn't improve or perhaps got even worse right up till Christmas, then it all clicked and we improved until the end of the season and we finished outside the relegation zone?

And then imagine if next season we bossed the league and won automatic promotion playing quality attacking football....

Would we be happy?

Why oh why do I keep hearing 'rebuilding'? This is a team that hasn't finished below 5th yet in this league. We were shite last season and still finished 5th. It didnt need rebuilding. It needed a couple of players adding, a good gameplan and a manager who instilled any confidence in anyone. instead, he's brought in his own players and put together the worst set of results in all my time as a Blade.

What about the current situation makes you think we could boss a league? So far he's come in, lost McDonald and his whole season has fallen apart. No plan B, no willingness to change. He's so desperate, he's signed a convicted sex offender to play up top.

The point is moot. If it doesn't improve, they will sack him. They have no choice. If we go down (which i dont think we will), it'll take us 10 years to get to the championship.

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

If he changes the style now, he will look even more of a fool than he does already.

Classic case of staying with a rubbish girlfriend. Once everybody has told you she's not a keeper, but you stay with her and defend her faults, you look a right mug if you dump her. He should have dumped her after the second date, when she turned up off her tits, 2 hours late with her knickers on her head.

 

[stannyblade]

FCUK the long game we need results now.
Get him out and someone else in while we have more chance of staying up. If then we creep into the playoffs then happy days

 

[StarBlade]

No-one can look into the future, we can only work on the facts at hand.

Those facts are that we are in our third season in Division 3, mostly through a series of short-term panic managerial appointments (is it 6 "permanent" managers in 7 years?). Out of those, our most successful was sacked weeks before the deciding games that could have got us promoted out of Division 3. Nah, what we needed was him out and erm, someone else in... "SOMEONE ELSE, SOMEONE ELSE"...

I think it's clear for all to see. We need another managerial appointment, preferably a long hand-picked process by those who appointed DW2, and perhaps influenced by those who appointed those before DW2, or appointed the appointees. Or preferably, we can pick a list of unrealistic prospects, work ourselves up about who we will get (will they bring their star players with them too?), and then resign ourselves to Eddie No Experience or Gareth Not Good Enough for .... 6 months?

 

[1889]

I can't ever see Weir turning things around, he doesn't seem to possess any passion or express any emotion. I thought he was potentially a great appointment, but having given him time I've seen little or no improvement.

Against Crawley there was no movement, no attacking ambition and no one wanted the ball. Time and again players were having to turn back as no one made themselves available in front of them. The slight improvement came about because he brought Taylor on and changed formation, but I haven't seen any reference to that from Weir or Carsley?

I've seen Carsleys comments that "the lads gave an extra 15% in the second half " what a load of bollocks, what I want to know is why they were only giving 85% in the first!

 

[bladesadviser]

I would have no problem keeping him on if he had a track record we could all look back at and think "yes he has done it before". We have no idea if he is going to be a Alex Ferguson or a Tony Adams. Can we afford to gamble the future of the football club just to give an unknown quantity his start in management.

 

[VespaBlade]

I've seen Carsleys comments that "the lads gave an extra 15% in the second half " what a load of bollocks, what I want to know is why they were only giving 85% in the first!

Totally agree! Except I'm not sure at 85% tbh in the first half.
There was a marked improvement second half.

 

[Worksop_Blade]

Why oh why do I keep hearing 'rebuilding'? This is a team that hasn't finished below 5th yet in this league. We were shite last season and still finished 5th. It didnt need rebuilding. It needed a couple of players adding, a good gameplan and a manager who instilled any confidence in anyone. instead, he's brought in his own players and put together the worst set of results in all my time as a Blade.

What about the current situation makes you think we could boss a league? So far he's come in, lost McDonald and his whole season has fallen apart. No plan B, no willingness to change. He's so desperate, he's signed a convicted sex offender to play up top.

The point is moot. If it doesn't improve, they will sack him. They have no choice. If we go down (which i dont think we will), it'll take us 10 years to get to the championship.

This all over with bells on.

 

[StarBlade]

I would have no problem keeping him on if he had a track record we could all look back at and think "yes he has done it before". We have no idea if he is going to be a Alex Ferguson or a Tony Adams. Can we afford to gamble the future of the football club just to give an unknown quantity his start in management.

I think fans are totally unrealistic, and this sums it up, no offence here, just generally speaking.

We want someone with a "track record" of success, then you'd have to ask yourself how we'd get such a person into United when they are a success, and we are a penniless Division 3 flop. If they are a success, why a) are they unemployed or b) leave their current, successful post to take over a club that has a track record of panic sackings which would reflect badly on them, through no fault of their own.

I heard fans say after the Crawley game to get Poyet in, well, he's jut gone to the PL, that's why we can't get him. How about O'Neill? Sven? etc etc Think lower and smaller, that's our next appointment. Have Wikipedia at hand when he's announced. Oh yeah, he coached the U-16's under Barry Fry for 2 years, he'll know a thing or two about getting them working hard etc etc etc. Heard it all before.

I'm sure Man Utd fans were wondering who to get in next as they were getting their daggers out for Alex Ferguson in the early days. Look at what he built there after they held their nerve.

We're reaping what we have sown, and more of the same won't work in my opinion. Keep sacking until we get it right, despite the fact that this policy has seen us fall from being a top Championship club always fighting at the top, to a 3rd Division club struggling to shake off our terminal panic attacks at the sight of the Yeovils of this world.

Our managerial record is a disgrace, our response to poor form is a disgrace, our "build for the future" policy is up for sale anytime someone rattles the change in their pockets, yet no matter what I or anyone says, the outcome will always be the same despite the league table for the past 7 years telling you all you need to know... we are moving backwards because of our short-termism.

I know the solution; sack DW2 and get someone else in etc

 

[grafikhaus]

What pisses me off is that, this season, our only realistic ambition now is to avoid relegation. We would need to average close on 2 points per game now to get in the play offs and it is more likely me and Metalblade get a threes up with Cheryl Cole than that happening.

So basically, even on a best case scenario, after ten games Weir has ensured we will have another season in Division 3

Or, more realistically/frighteningly, the four teams who were relegated last season were:

Scunthorpe 48pts
Bury 41pts
Hartlepool 41pts
Portsmouth 32pts (inc. points deduction.)

The fifth-from-bottom team - Colchester - got 51 pts. Anybody think we, under Weir, will get another 46 points? Me neither.

 

[Darren]

I think fans are totally unrealistic, and this sums it up, no offence here, just generally speaking.

We want someone with a "track record" of success, then you'd have to ask yourself how we'd get such a person into United when they are a success, and we are a penniless Division 3 flop. If they are a success, why a) are they unemployed or b) leave their current, successful post to take over a club that has a track record of panic sackings which would reflect badly on them, through no fault of their own.

I heard fans say after the Crawley game to get Poyet in, well, he's jut gone to the PL, that's why we can't get him. How about O'Neill? Sven? etc etc Think lower and smaller, that's our next appointment. Have Wikipedia at hand when he's announced. Oh yeah, he coached the U-16's under Barry Fry for 2 years, he'll know a thing or two about getting them working hard etc etc etc. Heard it all before.

I'm sure Man Utd fans were wondering who to get in next as they were getting their daggers out for Alex Ferguson in the early days. Look at what he built there after they held their nerve.

We're reaping what we have sown, and more of the same won't work in my opinion. Keep sacking until we get it right, despite the fact that this policy has seen us fall from being a top Championship club always fighting at the top, to a 3rd Division club struggling to shake off our terminal panic attacks at the sight of the Yeovils of this world.

Our managerial record is a disgrace, our response to poor form is a disgrace, our "build for the future" policy is up for sale anytime someone rattles the change in their pockets, yet no matter what I or anyone says, the outcome will always be the same despite the league table for the past 7 years telling you all you need to know... we are moving backwards because of our short-termism.

I know the solution; sack DW2 and get someone else in etc

As I have said 26 times before, Weir hasn't just started poorly he has started disastrously. Anyone with managerial experience down to about conference North level would have done better than him with these players It follows there are probably at least about 50 experienced managers out there who would see the SUFC job as career progression and who would be an improvement on Weir. I would take any of them.

 

[Ted Danson]

I think fans are totally unrealistic, and this sums it up, no offence here, just generally speaking.

We want someone with a "track record" of success, then you'd have to ask yourself how we'd get such a person into United when they are a success, and we are a penniless Division 3 flop. If they are a success, why a) are they unemployed or b) leave their current, successful post to take over a club that has a track record of panic sackings which would reflect badly on them, through no fault of their own.

I heard fans say after the Crawley game to get Poyet in, well, he's jut gone to the PL, that's why we can't get him. How about O'Neill? Sven? etc etc Think lower and smaller, that's our next appointment. Have Wikipedia at hand when he's announced. Oh yeah, he coached the U-16's under Barry Fry for 2 years, he'll know a thing or two about getting them working hard etc etc etc. Heard it all before.

I'm sure Man Utd fans were wondering who to get in next as they were getting their daggers out for Alex Ferguson in the early days. Look at what he built there after they held their nerve.

We're reaping what we have sown, and more of the same won't work in my opinion. Keep sacking until we get it right, despite the fact that this policy has seen us fall from being a top Championship club always fighting at the top, to a 3rd Division club struggling to shake off our terminal panic attacks at the sight of the Yeovils of this world.

Our managerial record is a disgrace, our response to poor form is a disgrace, our "build for the future" policy is up for sale anytime someone rattles the change in their pockets, yet no matter what I or anyone says, the outcome will always be the same despite the league table for the past 7 years telling you all you need to know... we are moving backwards because of our short-termism.

I know the solution; sack DW2 and get someone else in etc

We have been told we are not penniless so why cant we poach someone? money will bring a good manager in wherever we are in the league, if for arguments sake we had infinite money Morinhio would come to us for 5 billion a year even if we were in the conference.

Back in the real world we are supposed to be very rich in comparison to all the other clubs in this league so we should be able to offer a comparatively massive amount of money to a manager compared to our opponents.

This argument of not sacking the manager as sacking managers hasnt worked before is nonsense, none of those managers were as bad as this one.

If you had been married several times and your partners had been annoying twats and then youd ended up with an annoying twat who also abused you and was obviously much worse than the partners youd had would you stick by them just because getting rid of your other partners had brought you to this twat in the first place?

 

[S6Blade]

So we shouldn't sack someone who is likely to be the worst manager we've ever had (if he hasn't already reached this accolade) simply because we've sacked the previous managers. Right you are.

 

[bladesadviser]

As I have said 26 times before, Weir hasn't just started poorly he has started disastrously. Anyone with managerial experience down to about conference North level would have done better than him with these players It follows there are probably at least about 50 experienced managers out there who would see the SUFC job as career progression and who would be an improvement on Weir. I would take any of them.

Also add in the fact we were a potless club when we were last looking for a new manager. We are now a club with investment and a squad on paper as good as any in the division.

 

[Ted Danson]

So we shouldn't sack someone who is likely to be the worst manager we've ever had (if he hasn't already reached this accolade) simply because we've sacked the previous managers. Right you are.

He has by a mile, his win ratio is 8.3%

a few others to note:
Brian Robson: 36.84
Mickey Adams: 16.67
Adrian Heath : 30.43

 

[StarBlade]

This argument of not sacking the manager as sacking managers hasnt worked before is nonsense, none of those managers were as bad as this one.

No they weren't, surprisingly, they get worse every time. I wonder if there's a correlation between our appointments, our league position, and then our next appointment. I wonder. We've been relatively better off than all L1 clubs for our first 2 years in L1, what happened then?

Anyone with managerial experience down to about conference North level would have done better than him with these players

Anyone would have done better than Danny Wilson really, except the person who replaced him.

DW2 has started disastrously, agreed. But to assume the next person must be better is the exact reason we are here right now. DW2 came to United after we've been in Division 3 for 2 years previously. Why? Because we keep sacking managers to get the next better replacement. Going in circles now, chicken and egg.

Things are bad, real bad. A huge part of the problem is the manager (any manager), another huge part is the panic sackings when things are bad.

 

[botoble]

I think fans are totally unrealistic, and this sums it up, no offence here, just generally speaking.

We want someone with a "track record" of success, then you'd have to ask yourself how we'd get such a person into United when they are a success, and we are a penniless Division 3 flop. If they are a success, why a) are they unemployed or b) leave their current, successful post to take over a club that has a track record of panic sackings which would reflect badly on them, through no fault of their own.

I heard fans say after the Crawley game to get Poyet in, well, he's jut gone to the PL, that's why we can't get him. How about O'Neill? Sven? etc etc Think lower and smaller, that's our next appointment. Have Wikipedia at hand when he's announced. Oh yeah, he coached the U-16's under Barry Fry for 2 years, he'll know a thing or two about getting them working hard etc etc etc. Heard it all before.

I'm sure Man Utd fans were wondering who to get in next as they were getting their daggers out for Alex Ferguson in the early days. Look at what he built there after they held their nerve.

We're reaping what we have sown, and more of the same won't work in my opinion. Keep sacking until we get it right, despite the fact that this policy has seen us fall from being a top Championship club always fighting at the top, to a 3rd Division club struggling to shake off our terminal panic attacks at the sight of the Yeovils of this world.

Our managerial record is a disgrace, our response to poor form is a disgrace, our "build for the future" policy is up for sale anytime someone rattles the change in their pockets, yet no matter what I or anyone says, the outcome will always be the same despite the league table for the past 7 years telling you all you need to know... we are moving backwards because of our short-termism.

I know the solution; sack DW2 and get someone else in etc

Preston were skint when they got grayson, who has a good track record in league one.....
Bradford were broke when they got parkinson who has a decent enough record in league one...
Shrewsbury dont exactly have bundles of cash but Turner has a decentish record

Sheffield united have employed the wrong man and people are saying well we might aswell stick with him because we have sacked too many managers before....or there have been glimpses of good football in our 6 match losing streak...or everton were thinking about employing him...

none of which matter when you look at how he has ruined a season in under 10 games and shows no real evidence that he is going to turn it around. I say let him lose to hartlepool tonight and sack him in the morning?

 

[Darren]

No they weren't, surprisingly, they get worse every time. I wonder if there's a correlation between our appointments, our league position, and then our next appointment. I wonder. We've been relatively better off than all L1 clubs for our first 2 years in L1, what happened then?



Anyone would have done better than Danny Wilson really, except the person who replaced him.

DW2 has started disastrously, agreed. But to assume the next person must be better is the exact reason we are here right now. DW2 came to United after we've been in Division 3 for 2 years previously. Why? Because we keep sacking managers to get the next better replacement. Going in circles now, chicken and egg.

Things are bad, real bad. A huge part of the problem is the manager (any manager), another huge part is the panic sackings when things are bad.

No, anyone would not have done better than Wilson. When he was sacked we were play off certs and still had a fighting chance of automatic promotion. Clearly a new manager could have done a lot worse than that and some of us opposed the sacking for that very reason.

Weir has taken us to the relegation zone in the 3rd division and we are averaging 0.5 points a game with what must be one of the top 3 wage bills in the division. I suppose another manager could conceivably do worse than that (we might have 4 points rather than 5), but the overwhelming likelihood is that he would not.

Thus, there is no comparism between the Wilson and Weir situation. Your argument boils down to saying because we have sacked managers in the past for poor reasons we shouldn't sack managers now for good reasons. If it was discovered that Weir was abusing members of the youth team and nicking money from the ticket office* would you not sack him then on the basis that we have sacked too many managers in the past?

* Obviously I am not suggesting he is doing any such thing. It's an illustration.