The deep sitting CM

[robbiez666]

Whether it's Choudhury, Peck or Souza, we seem to be playing a tactic that when we have the ball one of them acts as a CB and drops deep. Staying there. Often against 1 striker. Meaning there's a huge gap between them and the other CM and quite often Anel or Robbo bring the ball out and not that midfielder. It was Souza today. At times playing as a CB. such a waste.

If Wilder wants to play like that, why not simply play a back 5?

It makes no sense of a tactic unless you push your FBs right up and we don't.

It just means there's no link up between the attacking and defensive players, outside of Peck and occasionally a FB.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Whether it's Choudhury, Peck or Souza, we seem to be playing a tactic that when we have the ball one of them acts as a CB and drops deep. Staying there. Often against 1 striker. Meaning there's a huge gap between them and the other CM and quite often Anel or Robbo bring the ball out and not that midfielder. It was Souza today. At times playing as a CB. such a waste.

If Wilder wants to play like that, why not simply play a back 5?

It makes no sense of a tactic unless you push your FBs right up and we don't.

It just means there's no link up between the attacking and defensive players, outside of Peck and occasionally a FB.

It’s been absolutely unnecessary to play with a player in this position in the last 3 games.

If you want to score goals you don’t need defensive midfielder sat in taking the ball off the defenders toes and then giving it back to them. At least with Norwood and Coutts sitting in front there was some progression with the ball when they got it. With Souza and Choudhury this doesn’t happen.

Extremely negative tactics as one of the top teams in the division playing against 3 struggling teams, it’s almost like we want to invite them on.

 

[fifty shades of blade]

Its a bullshit position. Most of the time the player in that position ends up playing it back or square leaving the club footed defender to try to play an advanced pass.

 

[ATL Recs]

Whether it's Choudhury, Peck or Souza, we seem to be playing a tactic that when we have the ball one of them acts as a CB and drops deep. Staying there. Often against 1 striker. Meaning there's a huge gap between them and the other CM and quite often Anel or Robbo bring the ball out and not that midfielder. It was Souza today. At times playing as a CB. such a waste.

If Wilder wants to play like that, why not simply play a back 5?

It makes no sense of a tactic unless you push your FBs right up and we don't.

It just means there's no link up between the attacking and defensive players, outside of Peck and occasionally a FB.

Exactly what I’ve been saying

 

[robbiez666]

It’s been absolutely unnecessary to play with a player in this position in the last 3 games.

If you want to score goals you don’t need defensive midfielder sat in taking the ball off the defenders toes and then giving it back to them. At least with Norwood and Coutts sitting in front there was some progression with the ball when they got it. With Souza and Choudhury this doesn’t happen.

Extremely negative tactics as one of the top teams in the division playing against 3 struggling teams, it’s almost like we want to invite them on.

I think the idea is to push Burrows and Seriki/Clarke up to wide midfielders, but it just hasn't worked at all and we've looked a mess defensively.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

It’s been absolutely unnecessary to play with a player in this position in the last 3 games.

If you want to score goals you don’t need defensive midfielder sat in taking the ball off the defenders toes and then giving it back to them. At least with Norwood and Coutts sitting in front there was some progression with the ball when they got it. With Souza and Choudhury this doesn’t happen.

Extremely negative tactics as one of the top teams in the division playing against 3 struggling teams, it’s almost like we want to invite them on.

I know I'm bias, but we have the best ball carrying midfielder in the division in Peck, but rather than have him released to do his thing, we're playing a tactic which is putting 2 or 3 opposition midfielders against him on his own.

Against Millwall it was painful to watch him flounder on his own in the engine room as Chaudhery put in one of the most inept performances I've seen all season.

Today was a little better, but the lack of cohesion between Peck, O'Hare and Souza baffles me. Surely by game 40 they should be smooth and well oiled. They're not Fleck, Norwood, McGoldrick that's for sure...

 

[b1ade4life]

Whether it's Choudhury, Peck or Souza, we seem to be playing a tactic that when we have the ball one of them acts as a CB and drops deep. Staying there. Often against 1 striker. Meaning there's a huge gap between them and the other CM and quite often Anel or Robbo bring the ball out and not that midfielder. It was Souza today. At times playing as a CB. such a waste.

If Wilder wants to play like that, why not simply play a back 5?

It makes no sense of a tactic unless you push your FBs right up and we don't.

It just means there's no link up between the attacking and defensive players, outside of Peck and occasionally a FB.

Tactic???? What is this tactic you hear of????

 

[Houston_Blade]

I know I'm bias, but we have the best ball carrying midfielder in the division in Peck, but rather than have him released to do his thing, we're playing a tactic which is putting 2 or 3 opposition midfielders against him on his own.

Against Millwall it was painful to watch him flounder on his own in the engine room as Chaudhery put in one of the most inept performances I've seen all season.

Today was a little better, but the lack of cohesion between Peck, O'Hare and Souza baffles me. Surely by game 40 they should be smooth and well oiled. They're not Fleck, Norwood, McGoldrick that's for sure...

For all the bollocks he talks about “1000 games” he’s just following a fad and therefore thinks we need to play this magical defensive midfielder position. It actually makes him look like a PlayStation manager despite calling fans out for the same.

 

[neshfox]

It's a modern day tactic based on "La salida laviolpiana", in theory you create an overload playing out out of the back usually being 3 v 2, and by the cdm dropping it should drag an opposition central midfielder with them creating space between the lines. There is a good article here on it: https://www.futbolidealists.com/blog/tactical-theory-the-concept-of-la-salida-lavolpiana

Of course it sounds good in principle but it requires technical quality to pass accurately under pressure, and if teams sit in you struggle for overloads further up the pitch without that technical quality at the back to accurately pass out of the back as we've seen over the past few games.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

For all the bollocks he talks about “1000 games” he’s just following a fad and therefore thinks we need to play this magical defensive midfielder position. It actually makes him look like a PlayStation manager despite calling fans out for the same.

We started the season with a formation and looked a bit disjointed but the hope was we'd grow into it. 40 games into the season and we look just as disjointed and still have players who can't play for more than 70 mins without getting cramp.

I'm genuinely perplexed by what we've done in training over the past 8 months as we don't look any fitter and/or tactically better drilled.

We've not evolved physically or tactically. Surely even the most PlayStation manager could see we had a week against 3 pretty average teams and get a tune out of Peck, Hamer, OHare, Rak Sakhi...

 

[bertieblade]

Our manager is tactically inept.
Hamer is a central midfield player, god knows where Wilder plays him but it exposes the side he starts on.
BBD is a left sided attacker not right
When we are on top, which is rarely, then he changes formation and makes things worse, has he ever improved our performance by making positive substitutions.
Central midfield players are allowed to support the attack as well as the defence.
Cannon today was not the answer to our goal scoring problem.

I could go on, but you get the drift

 

[Bergen Blade]

Whether it's Choudhury, Peck or Souza, we seem to be playing a tactic that when we have the ball one of them acts as a CB and drops deep. Staying there. Often against 1 striker. Meaning there's a huge gap between them and the other CM and quite often Anel or Robbo bring the ball out and not that midfielder. It was Souza today. At times playing as a CB. such a waste.

If Wilder wants to play like that, why not simply play a back 5?

It makes no sense of a tactic unless you push your FBs right up and we don't.

It just means there's no link up between the attacking and defensive players, outside of Peck and occasionally a FB.

It's not our plan A. It's a plan B when the opposition prevents us from getting the ball from defence into midfield. In the photo below, Souza is surrounded by a bunch of Plymouth players. If we try to find him, he'll be challenged and despite his strength he lost the ball moments later here. Peck has drifted upfield, knowing that we're not even going to try playing through those Plymouth midfielders.



When the midfielder drops deep, it allows our centre backs to move wider and getting better angles for their passing options, and the full backs can move even higher.

I think the move gets too much criticism, but it needs to be just one of several ways for us to build attacks. We're not great at it in general. At this level, we can hold on to the ball, we don't take many risks, and therefore don't lose the ball too often in dangerous situations. But we tend to just get away from the pressure, then allowing the opposition to drop off, meaning we still have 11 men to beat and less space in which to do it. It would be a huge bonus if we could play through the first pressure and then bomb forward before the opposition can get back and reorganise.

 

[bertieblade]

I can understand why our central midfield player drops back to allow our keeper more options, but I cannot understand why he stays there once we have possession.

 

[JJBlade]

I think we should give Wilder £20 million to buy another, we can then play 442 but with eight of them inside our own area

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

I know I'm bias, but we have the best ball carrying midfielder in the division in Peck, but rather than have him released to do his thing, we're playing a tactic which is putting 2 or 3 opposition midfielders against him on his own.

I think there's definite bias there. Peck is in no way the best ball carrying midfielder in the division. He's not even the best ball carrying midfielder at Sheffield United. Hamer, O'Hare and Arblaster are all ahead of him in that respect.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I think there's definite bias there. Peck is in no way the best ball carrying midfielder in the division. He's not even the best ball carrying midfielder at Sheffield United. Hamer, O'Hare and Arblaster are all ahead of him in that respect.

Really? Wow.... You must watch a totally different game to me.... Arblaster? O'Hare? Id have a discussion with you on who transitions the ball better Hamer or Peck, but if you think Arblaster and O'Hare are better, than Ill let this one go as a lost cause .....

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Really? Wow.... You must watch a totally different game to me.... Arblaster? O'Hare? Id have a discussion with you on who transitions the ball better Hamer or Peck, but if you think Arblaster and O'Hare are better, than Ill let this one go as a lost cause .....

Peck has potential but he's not the finished article. His passing is very hit and miss and defensively he's often a headless chicken, chasing down the ball and leaving gaps behind him instead of holding his position and being patient. I'm not saying he's a poor player, but he still falls into the potential bracket and isn't remotely close to being one of the division's best midfielders this season. He's got a lot to learn and thumping his chest at full time doesn't make him a finished player in my eyes.

 

[Houston_Blade]

It's not our plan A. It's a plan B when the opposition prevents us from getting the ball from defence into midfield. In the photo below, Souza is surrounded by a bunch of Plymouth players. If we try to find him, he'll be challenged and despite his strength he lost the ball moments later here. Peck has drifted upfield, knowing that we're not even going to try playing through those Plymouth midfielders.

View attachment 208545

When the midfielder drops deep, it allows our centre backs to move wider and getting better angles for their passing options, and the full backs can move even higher.

I think the move gets too much criticism, but it needs to be just one of several ways for us to build attacks. We're not great at it in general. At this level, we can hold on to the ball, we don't take many risks, and therefore don't lose the ball too often in dangerous situations. But we tend to just get away from the pressure, then allowing the opposition to drop off, meaning we still have 11 men to beat and less space in which to do it. It would be a huge bonus if we could play through the first pressure and then bomb forward before the opposition can get back and reorganise.

The players don’t know what to do once this situation has occurred though, so they just boot it down the line or to a defender.

 

[Bergen Blade]

The players don’t know what to do once this situation has occurred though, so they just boot it down the line or to a defender.

I've watched four football games the past week. Blades losing to Oxford, Millwall and Plymouth, and Norwegian minnows Bodø/Glimt wiping the floor with Lazio.

I agree with you, our passing and movement, our general play, is not impressive. We have decent players, a good bench, but as a team we seem to lack relations and understanding between players, meaning it is a struggle for us to create chances.

 

[robbiez666]

Really? Wow.... You must watch a totally different game to me.... Arblaster? O'Hare? Id have a discussion with you on who transitions the ball better Hamer or Peck, but if you think Arblaster and O'Hare are better, than Ill let this one go as a lost cause .....

Seriously? Peck loses the ball quite often. He takes extra touches, gets caught on the ball and gives the ball away far too often. It's only to be expected though given his age/experience.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Seriously? Peck loses the ball quite often. He takes extra touches, gets caught on the ball and gives the ball away far too often. It's only to be expected though given his age/experience.

Seriously! He has more energy and forward thinking than most of our other players put together.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Seriously! He has more energy and forward thinking than most of our other players put together.

He might have the energy and forward thinking but he lacks the consistency. He's a bit like Berge. Great one game. Very average the next 3 or 4.

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

The centre of midfield has been a massive problem since Blaster got injured. Blaster was the attacking, forward passing midfielder next to the more defensive Vini. It was therefore, strange to sign Hamza in Jan, when we really needed an attacking midfielder (to replace Blaster). Peck has done really well, but he doesnt really pass forward or run into the box. Therefore, particularly, lately, when it has been Hamza and Peck, neither get in the box, neither shoot on goal and Hamza is so deep, he plays CB most of the time. Hence why the midfield has been IMO, poor for most of the season.

 

[robbiez666]

Seriously! He has more energy and forward thinking than most of our other players put together.

What's that got to do with ball carrying?

He's a talented lad but nowhere near our best player.

 

[Champagneblade]

The centre of midfield has been a massive problem since Blaster got injured. Blaster was the attacking, forward passing midfielder next to the more defensive Vini. It was therefore, strange to sign Hamza in Jan, when we really needed an attacking midfielder (to replace Blaster). Peck has done really well, but he doesnt really pass forward or run into the box. Therefore, particularly, lately, when it has been Hamza and Peck, neither get in the box, neither shoot on goal and Hamza is so deep, he plays CB most of the time. Hence why the midfield has been IMO, poor for most of the season.

I understood why we signed Hamza. We were worried about Souza getting injured.

I suppose the question is that sort of midfielder so we see Peck becoming?

He’s actually quite sound as a deep playmaker and decent defensively.

I can imagine him and Arblaster playing well together.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I understood why we signed Hamza. We were worried about Souza getting injured.

I suppose the question is that sort of midfielder so we see Peck becoming?

He’s actually quite sound as a deep playmaker and decent defensively.

I can imagine him and Arblaster playing well together.

Won't happen mate. Peck will be gone this Summer. Can see one of the lower PL sides being excited by him and turning his head. Can imagine a Brentford, Palace type offering him an opportunity to return 'home' to London and he's gone ....

Arblaster (who whisper it, I thought was a bit over-hyped and has got even better by being out of the side) will have been out for a full year, so god knows what he'll be like when he returns.