The Big Spending Obsession

[SwissBlade]

It's long been 'a thing' on this forum that we must spend lots to succeed. The board seem to have an obsession of persuing big name targets. Neither guarantee success. Both can result in failure

The recent thing is that because we have the prince and by default, money, then we need to be looking at the premier league and the championship for players.

In some respects, we can look to the league above, but we need to be looking at quality rather than expensive players

Che Adams and Kieran Wallace are two very good examples of how scouting can pay off.

We've brought in Edgar and Sammon on loan, both from a division above and both have been hit and miss. Sharp has been a great addition, better than I expected, but at what cost? Could we have got Bradshaw at Walsall for less and bought at centre half? (Example only)

last season we chased and chased O'Grady, this season it appears to be Hammond and Burn. We've wasted transfer windows for these players and whilst i praise the club for their determination, we can't allow another to pass by with no end results.

Phipps has said that the focus is not on the JTW it's on now, we need to focus on both.

Sure have the targets, but let's not obsess with then, if we get knocked back, have a back up plan of two or three. Otherwise we'll end up where we are now, a side weak and unbalanced at the back but with an abundance of striking talent.

 

[judge]

It's long been 'a thing' on this forum that we must spend lots to succeed. The board seem to have an obsession of persuing big name targets. Neither guarantee success. Both can result in failure

The recent thing is that because we have the prince and by default, money, then we need to be looking at the premier league and the championship for players.

In some respects, we can look to the league above, but we need to be looking at quality rather than expensive players

Che Adams and Kieran Wallace are two very good examples of how scouting can pay off.

We've brought in Edgar and Sammon on loan, both from a division above and both have been hit and miss. Sharp has been a great addition, better than I expected, but at what cost? Could we have got Bradshaw at Walsall for less and bought at centre half? (Example only)

last season we chased and chased O'Grady, this season it appears to be Hammond and Burn. We've wasted transfer windows for these players and whilst i praise the club for their determination, we can't allow another to pass by with no end results.

Phipps has said that the focus is not on the JTW it's on now, we need to focus on both.

Sure have the targets, but let's not obsess with then, if we get knocked back, have a back up plan of two or three. Otherwise we'll end up where we are now, a side weak and unbalanced at the back but with an abundance of striking talent.

Your post is a bit disingenious as it depends on your interpretation of the phrase spend big and wether or not anyone has actually said that

We all agree we need to strengthen and loans and free transfers and undisclosed havent exactly been working out that great for us the last few decade or so have they

Ok so we have splashed the cash to a certain extent for a couple of players and its debateable wether they have worked out or not but the crux of the matter is the last couple of seasons we have been a couple of key signings off being a really good league one side (at one stage even having a really good league one side )but we always stay that way by selling one key player and replacing them with two or three less effective players

I tell you this now as i said last season this team is not good enough to get promoted without a couple of quality additions and if we dont go up this season then i can see the storm clouds gathering and perhaps then some of you might get as pissed off about it as i am now

 

[jt64]

We don't need to spend millions. we just need to spend money in the right areas, and as you say have a number of alternatives available for those areas so that we actually fill the needs we have, rather than tunnelling in on one or two players (i.e. the COG, Burn, Hammonds you list) and then scrambling around when it doesn't work and ending up with nothing. None of the players Adkins has brought in either fill needs or offer value for money (in before Sharp fanboys flame me), that we have brought in just the one centre back, which isn't even a permanent deal, is the fault of both Adkins and the board

 

[robbiez666]

Agreed, we don't need to spend millions to go up.

We could have signed what we need from this division. Mosry for one. We could probably even have signed the players we need to go up without spending a penny (on a transfer fee at least). I'd rather we look to this or lower divisions for upcoming talent than getting journeymen in from the Championship.

It's generally a balance though, but we've not targeted the problem areas.

Sharp is a very good addition
Sammon is a decent addition
Woolford has added nothing
Edgar's form has plummeted but he could easily pick up again.

Only Sharp has been, so far, a valuable addition, but we've not used the loan market to bring in game changing players, the way we did with Brayford or Wednesday did with Antonio and Stewart.

 

[Blade58]

I'm not sure Swiss that many have said we should aim for big name targets

Some have said we should cherry pick the better players from this division

The one who seems to be making a statement about players from higher divisions (prem and championship) is the Manager by targeting them and let's be fair here, it doesn't seem to matter a jot what us mere fans think anyway, the board and NA will do as they see fit, higher, same division, or lower division players

And yes, quite right Jimbob telling us that the focus is supposedly on the here and now and not the Jan window, but the club seem to be having a funny way of showing it. The transfer window closed an age ago with Adkins saying we almost got one over the line and here we are, weeks and weeks on and still chasing the same fella. I appreciate that it maybe the parent club dictating things, but stop dawdling and move on if we can't progress and close the deal

If we can't find a cb better than what we have, then we may as well pack up and go home. To assume that with the scouting network and knowledge of the leagues that we supposedly have, that we can't source a player to improve us seems unthinkable

 

[blade too long]

Your post is a bit disingenious as it depends on your interpretation of the phrase spend big and wether or not anyone has actually said that

We all agree we need to strengthen and loans and free transfers and undisclosed havent exactly been working out that great for us the last few decade or so have they

Ok so we have splashed the cash to a certain extent for a couple of players and its debateable wether they have worked out or not but the crux of the matter is the last couple of seasons we have been a couple of key signings off being a really good league one side (at one stage even having a really good league one side )but we always stay that way by selling one key player and replacing them with two or three less effective players

I tell you this now as i said last season this team is not good enough to get promoted without a couple of quality additions and if we dont go up this season then i can see the storm clouds gathering and perhaps then some of you might get as pissed off about it as i am now

that is your problem your pissed off
and you wont calm down

none of us want to be in league one
its fucking dreadful , but its not a cakewalk getting out of it and its not going to happen just by throwing money at it
we need some stability, a settled team , we aint got there yet but there is a man with a plan
we all know Adkins included we need 2 more at least
but , they have to be the right two
we shouldnt settle for lesser players
Ive had 45 years out of 56 thats been dreadful at times
but Im not pissed off, or resigned to it

just waiting for the good bits , few and far between that they are ,
we have room for improvement , but this time hes getting players in that will give improvements
when its in place
just have to stay calm
it will come, it has to , we are due

I went through the pissed off stage when Givens missed a penalty not got that low since

 

[marsh blade]

Tell the prince to have a chat with mohamed Al-fayed he knows how to invest and get a club out of this shite league in fact he started at fulham in league 2 .He did'nt fuck about job done .

 

[Barney]

That's the thing, we had zero plan B. Granted the board are restricting things massively but you don't have to look past the invincible manager to see where the problems have come about.

Even in the extremely unlikely event Adkins chose to pursue centre halves and central midfielders over strikers, for whatever reason they didn't come to fruition and the absence of plan B options in those key positions meant that we failed to get them in.

That's poor management by anyone's standards.

 

[marsh blade]

that is your problem your pissed off
and you wont calm down

none of us want to be in league one
its fucking dreadful , but its not a cakewalk getting out of it and its not going to happen just by throwing money at it
we need some stability, a settled team , we aint got there yet but there is a man with a plan
we all know Adkins included we need 2 more at least
but , they have to be the right two
we shouldnt settle for lesser players
Ive had 45 years out of 56 thats been dreadful at times
but Im not pissed off, or resigned to it

just waiting for the good bits , few and far between that they are ,
we have room for improvement , but this time hes getting players in that will give improvements
when its in place
just have to stay calm
it will come, it has to , we are due

I went through the pissed off stage when Givens missed a penalty not got that low since

You accepted we will always be shit then im just getting to that stage in my life as a blade and i'm 40 prob around the same age as when you gave up after Don Givens pen ahah.

 

[SwissBlade]

Your post is a bit disingenious as it depends on your interpretation of the phrase spend big and wether or not anyone has actually said that

We all agree we need to strengthen and loans and free transfers and undisclosed havent exactly been working out that great for us

Yeah it's a little misleading, the point was more the perceived 'big name from a bigger league' rather than big money.

I know we discussed this last season and you made a big point of not spending money, my point then, as it is now is that we need to focus on the quality rather than the price or the name/ reputation.

Some will say that we spent big on Brayford and yes we did, Jim didn't help by pouring fuel on the fire say it was deal more than 1.5- 2million. The point with Brayford was that he was/ is reliable and quality.

I'd like to see the focus being on the long term players... Even if it's players we'll eventually sell for a profit, because we know that's going to happen. Just as long as we replacement properly before we sell for big money

 

[SwissBlade]

I'm not sure Swiss that many have said we should aim for big name targets

Yeah fair point, it's mostly within the club and media where they make such a big thing. But given a choice of maguire/ Hammond/ burn v a league one Unknown, most of us will hope for the name.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Yeah it's a little misleading, the point was more the perceived 'big name from a bigger league' rather than big money.

I know we discussed this last season and you made a big point of not spending money, my point then, as it is now is that we need to focus on the quality rather than the price or the name/ reputation.

Some will say that we spent big on Brayford and yes we did, Jim didn't help by pouring fuel on the fire say it was deal more than 1.5- 2million. The point with Brayford was that he was/ is reliable and quality.

I'd like to see the focus being on the long term players... Even if it's players we'll eventually sell for a profit, because we know that's going to happen. Just as long as we replacement properly before we sell for big money

You are right . Focus on quality ove quantity . Build the team around 3 or 4 top quality players ( Brayford , Sharp standard in key positions ) , and the rest do lift there game , gain confidence and bingo , a winning formula . Usually its the spine of the team , and they dont always have to be big money signings, but a backbone you build the team around . We again have missed a trick and are paying for it .

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I tell you this now as i said last season this team is not good enough to get promoted without a couple of quality additions and if we dont go up this season then i can see the storm clouds gathering and perhaps then some of you might get as pissed off about it as i am now

Indeed - I agree with your last paragraph.

the 2 x signings need to be either:

(a) 2 x centre midfield
(b) centre half and centre midfield.

Our present midfield is shocking and we have been overrun in most games this season - either out played or out muscled.

We have enough quality round the edges, but we STILL lack the solid core.

Without signings and if it has to come from within.

Bash and Coutts centre mid and from last 2 games, Mcgahey and Edgar. Mcgahey now seems a no nonsense CH and Edgar did look quality when first arriving.

Would disagree slightly about promotion - the league is so average it won't take much for any team to step up. Two home games in a week and we will be back on it.

UTB

 

[robbiez666]

Yeah it's a little misleading, the point was more the perceived 'big name from a bigger league' rather than big money.

I know we discussed this last season and you made a big point of not spending money, my point then, as it is now is that we need to focus on the quality rather than the price or the name/ reputation.

Some will say that we spent big on Brayford and yes we did, Jim didn't help by pouring fuel on the fire say it was deal more than 1.5- 2million. The point with Brayford was that he was/ is reliable and quality.

I'd like to see the focus being on the long term players... Even if it's players we'll eventually sell for a profit, because we know that's going to happen. Just as long as we replacement properly before we sell for big money

I agree with focussing on long term prospects but at this level you need loans to get promoted to a large degree. Unless we are buying players who are going to improve there is limited benefit in signing them. You struggle to find players who will drop down a division and only sign a one year contract so any signings may well be deadwood if we do get promoted. Bringing in year loans mean you can bring in quality to help you get promoted whilst not being hamstrung by having them on your books if you are.

The players you need to get out of this league are not necessarily those who will be of any use in the league above.

 

[sheffielder]

We're missing one commanding midfielder with the experience to manage those around him. Have done for a very long time now. The lack of leadership is probably killing us more than our need for a certain type of player though

 

[Barney]

This season rests largely on our loan activity before the JTW. Failure to bring at least 2 in will see us out of it by January.

Building around our strongest players, Brayford, Freeman, Done, Sharp and Adams has and always will be the correct way to go. Only when we can release at least 15 at the end of this season will we actually have any realistic chance of achieving that and subsequently, a controllable grasp on future fortunes.

There's only five out of our 34 man squad that deserve a starting place when it comes to that.

New GK
Brayford
New CB
New CB
Freeman

New CM
New CM
New CM

Done
Adams
Sharp

Until then we've been left with no other option than to close our eyes and hope we're not out of it by January, which is hardly the most convincing of strategies, but that's the path the board and Adkins mistakes have dictated.

 

[judge]

Not sure anyone will be out of it by january because im not sure there is a team good enough to make the gap too big

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post though and it doesnt matter how big the gap this squad of players has proved it doesnt have the heart for a promotion campaign ,so unless we strengthen we wont go up

 

[Barney]

Not sure anyone will be out of it by january because im not sure there is a team good enough to make the gap too big

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post though and it doesnt matter how big the gap this squad of players has proved it doesnt have the heart for a promotion campaign ,so unless we strengthen we wont go up

Although this league is incredibly poor, if Gillingham can open up a 6 point gap on us after 11 games, then it's anyone's guess how large that gap will be by January.

 

[sheffielder]

There is no evidence we are going to improve to make up any gap, just hope.

 

[judge]

Although this league is incredibly poor, if Gillingham can open up a 6 point gap on us after 11 games, then it's anyone's guess how large that gap will be by January.

Yeah true ,just my opinion but i cant see any of the teams around the top being able to handle the pressure of being top
Of course that all depends on teams like us wigan etc putting pressure on them by getting results

 

[robbiez666]

I think Wigan and Coventry will be the biggest threats come the end of the season.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Although this league is incredibly poor, if Gillingham can open up a 6 point gap on us after 11 games, then it's anyone's guess how large that gap will be by January.

you and many others forget the one thing we still have up our sleeve.

A very large squad. yes, it's average but we have 2 decent players in every position.

This will count in the end as long as we keep in touch as other teams don't have that option.

For teams such as Gillingham/Walsall/Burton ........and ANY others for that matter, key injuries to key player and they are stuffed and I quote Tranmere and Orient as two examples from previous seasons.

We of course need to step up - it is up to Adkins to find that "team" and formulae that works. As of yes he hasn't, but if Adkins take some praise is that Adkins must have just about evaluated everything we've got - bar Brayford.

Adkins MUST create a regular team - with minor adjustments.

UTB

 

[blade too long]

we will look 25% better when a fit Brayfords back up and running as it w ill give us better balance
Dones presence has already took a lot of pressure off the defence as he keeps the opposition busy
Brayford will bring a greater calmness

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I think Wigan and Coventry will be the biggest threats come the end of the season.

Indeed - because like us, they have numbers - others do not.

Not many teams these days go through a season with playing only 14/15 players.

UTB

 

[Pollingtonblade]

we will look 25% better when a fit Brayfords back up and running as it w ill give us better balance
Dones presence has already took a lot of pressure off the defence as he keeps the opposition busy
Brayford will bring a greater calmness

He wasn't as good last season as his first spell, so I hope you're right.

 

[Barney]

Indeed - because like us, they have numbers - others do not.

Not many teams these days go through a season with playing only 14/15 players.

UTB

There's a lot more than you think that have been promoted from this league with minimal squads.

Yeovil, Bournemouth and Doncaster straight off the bat.

 

[judge]

we will look 25% better when a fit Brayfords back up and running as it w ill give us better balance
Dones presence has already took a lot of pressure off the defence as he keeps the opposition busy
Brayford will bring a greater calmness

No doubting they will improve the team but they were both part of a team that finished as a losing play off semi finalist last season and still hasnt strengthened in key areas

Even you must see that if we dont recruit and recruit smartly we will be looking at another pathetic half arsed end to a season

 

[blade too long]

No doubting they will improve the team but they were both part of a team that finished as a losing play off semi finalist last season and still hasnt strengthened in key areas

Even you must see that if we dont recruit and recruit smartly we will be looking at another pathetic half arsed end to a season

we were winning 1-0 when brayford went off changed it all
lost our shape and cohesion

 

[Fulwood Blade]

There's a lot more than you think that have been promoted from this league with minimal squads.

Yeovil, Bournemouth and Doncaster straight off the bat.

For the record - Bournmouth LOST £5 million getting out of this division.

Yeovil played a magnificent style with limited resources - look at them now - overspent also.

Doncaster - yes, some teams do that and this season could see 3 more Burton/Walsall and Gillingham. Always feasible as no one is stepping out.

January/feb/March may sort them out and we might, just might sign some in the JTW.

UTB

 

[robbiez666]

Indeed - because like us, they have numbers - others do not.

Not many teams these days go through a season with playing only 14/15 players.

UTB

Not necessarily numbers but they've both got more quality (and finances). I think Coventry have recruited wisely.