Thank god George Long did bad

[Balham]

This witch-hunt of George Long is getting ridiculous. Yes, he made mistakes but he is no longer in our first team and will unlikely be at United this time next year. Is it really worth another thread slagging him off? I very much doubt he went out to gift the opposition goals but you could see that his confidence had gone. I hope he can get a move away from us and can rebuild his career elsewhere.

 

[sitwell]

I believe you have to question our Goalkeeping Coach Darren Ward -He has overseen George Longs' career to date firstly at the Academy for one year and the last four years plus as Chief Goalkeeper Coach !
Not sure what goes on at the training ground but Long has been making the same mistakes over and over again despite 100+ senior appearances

To be fair ,ward can only coach whats in front of him ,and if that player simply isn't up to it (which I believe is the case) theres not a lot he can do. You cant coach confidence and presence ,George has neither of these ,and I agree with you ,he will struggle to make 4th division. He will be somewhere like Alfreton in a couple of years time or Scotland.

 

[BushBlade]

Long showed improvement after his first dodgy spell, when he was thrown in at the deep end when not yet ready, IMO. However, he's not improved enough.
Whether that's down to coaching or whether it's down to his mentality is difficult to tell from the outside.

I don't really understand the criticism of posters who backed him and said give him a chance. With hindsight they were wrong. So what? Everybody gets things wrong. We all thought Adkins would do well. (By all, I mean about 95% of those who expressed an opinion on here). We're Blades, we hope our managers and players do well. Sometimes they don't. It doesn't make us fickle or idiots.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I feel for long if I'm honest, it's just not quite worked out for him and the mistakes that are tolerated at 17/18 obviously won't be any longer.

Can understand managers wanting to give him a go to see if they can unlock the potential we saw early in his career but in the end it's probably a decent decision to take him out of the side - his confidence is obviously shot. He seems like a decent lad, so hope he can go on loan and earn himself a starting place if not here than elsewhere.

Thankfully Moore looks decent and more commanding that anyone since Kenny. The selection of dross (most notably simonson ) since Kenny is a key factor in us Still being in L1. Couple of the saves on sat were as good as we've seen for ages

 

[Fiery Blade]

To be fair ,ward can only coach whats in front of him ,and if that player simply isn't up to it (which I believe is the case) theres not a lot he can do. You cant coach confidence and presence ,George has neither of these ,and I agree with you ,he will struggle to make 4th division. He will be somewhere like Alfreton in a couple of years time or Scotland.

In that case then Sitters it's down to the Coach to say it as it is to the manager 'This guy doesn't have what it takes to make a Football league goalkeeper'
To be fair both Long and Howard both had shortcomings and you probably couldn't make a decent keeper between the two of them !
But the manager is responsible and eventually carries the can but if his staff are not up to the job they are failing him and the club - Darren Ward must share some responsibility for Longs lack of progress in the game especially given his number of appearances !

 

[TC's Magic Boots]

I agree with that,but the club employ specialist coaches. A blind man on a galloping horse could see Long lacked communication skills,positional sense,command of his area and organising his defence. It was a disgrace that
Adkins as a former keeper couldn`t see the obvious need for a replacement,but as pointed out above,coaching staff heads should roll over Long.

But the whole coaching set up needs addressing. Why have we not produced more players that are good enough for League 1 in the last 6 years or so ? We used to congratulate ourselves that some of our players were being snapped up by Premier League teams, but how can we think it's good enough not to produce enough for League 1. Something is not right with the academy and for me it's the lack of proper ex pro coaches running it. You can't just do a coaching badge and that's it, you need experience of playing the game at a good level to be able to pass it on to young players. Some leading the academy don't have it so can't do the job. Won't change until these people are replaced.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You can talk about the coaching staff as much as you like (and there may be some merit in it) but the truth is he is a very poor goalkeeper, lacking all the basic essentials of the trade. He's going nowhere in football but down.

He's certainly not lacking all of the essentials.

Height
Agility
Reflexes

All pretty good. His handling, decision making and communication are questionable. So he is lacking some of the essentials, certainly not all.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

He's certainly not lacking all of the essentials.

Height
Agility
Reflexes

All pretty good. His handling, decision making and communication are questionable. So he is lacking some of the essentials, certainly not all.

That`s like saying your centre forward is big,agile with good reflexes but runs the wrong way and can`t shoot straight and never calls for the ball.

You get shot of him,and you wouldn`t suffer him for about 100 games.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

That`s like saying your centre forward is big,agile with good reflexes but runs the wrong way and can`t shoot straight and never calls for the ball.

You get shot of him,and you wouldn`t suffer him for about 100 games.

I'd say if a player is young and has some good physical attributes, it's worth working with them to see if you can address their weaknesses. I think Long has improved somewhat in his weak areas but not quickly enough and is still too error prone. If he wants to stay as No2 and continue to learn and improve, I wouldn't have a problem with that but judging by the fact that Ramsdale is on the bench ahead of him, I wonder if the dummy has come out.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

I'd say if a player is young and has some good physical attributes, it's worth working with them to see if you can address their weaknesses. I think Long has improved somewhat in his weak areas but not quickly enough and is still too error prone. If he wants to stay as No2 and continue to learn and improve, I wouldn't have a problem with that but judging by the fact that Ramsdale is on the bench ahead of him, I wonder if the dummy has come out.

I don`t think the dummy is out.
The simple truth is he`s had years to get to the required standard and has failed.
He`s not good enough. Sad,painful? Yep.
BUT TRUE.
Bye George.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I don`t think the dummy is out.
The simple truth is he`s had years to get to the required standard and has failed.
He`s not good enough. Sad,painful? Yep.
BUT TRUE.
Bye George.

Maybe. I've not seen Ramsdale play so can't say how the standards compare. I'm sure Long will make a career out of the game though. But we can agree we look more solid with Moore in there and that the signing has improved our chances of going up.

 

[HermitageBlade]

Really happy with Moore however long had to deal with the Albatross that was Collins in front of him for a couple of seasons and without any other real centre backs the odds were stacked against him. I don't think he's as bad as some make out but perhaps a change of scenery will do him good.

 

[Chali 2na]

I think with Long you have to question

Goal keeping coach . Was he resolving Longs goalkeeping flaws.

Longs judgement on the field of play . Poor call

Longs judgement off the field especially in a interview he said the squad last season was good enough for promotion with a few additions . Poor call.

Moore is a different goalkeeper who could quite easily save us 12 points .

Long has not progressed in 3 seasons . You question the coaching staff and management on that one.

Think all blades are pleased with the change , but let's not forget Moore is playing with 2no shit hot centre backs .Long has not had that pleasure since Harry,

Wilder sorted the cause and effect , and excellent buy .

UTB

I believe you have to question our Goalkeeping Coach Darren Ward -He has overseen George Longs' career to date firstly at the Academy for one year and the last four years plus as Chief Goalkeeper Coach !
Not sure what goes on at the training ground but Long has been making the same mistakes over and over again despite 100+ senior appearances

In that case then Sitters it's down to the Coach to say it as it is to the manager 'This guy doesn't have what it takes to make a Football league goalkeeper'
To be fair both Long and Howard both had shortcomings and you probably couldn't make a decent keeper between the two of them !
But the manager is responsible and eventually carries the can but if his staff are not up to the job they are failing him and the club - Darren Ward must share some responsibility for Longs lack of progress in the game especially given his number of appearances !

But the whole coaching set up needs addressing. Why have we not produced more players that are good enough for League 1 in the last 6 years or so ? We used to congratulate ourselves that some of our players were being snapped up by Premier League teams, but how can we think it's good enough not to produce enough for League 1. Something is not right with the academy and for me it's the lack of proper ex pro coaches running it. You can't just do a coaching badge and that's it, you need experience of playing the game at a good level to be able to pass it on to young players. Some leading the academy don't have it so can't do the job. Won't change until these people are replaced.

I find it funny that people are actually questioning the coaching now.

What qualifies you to say whether or not the coaching is good enough?

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I find it funny that people are actually questioning the coaching now.

What qualifies you to say whether or not the coaching is good enough?

Agree, harsh to question the coaching when a number of these young lads have received international recognition.

This is just a case of a player not quiet being able to push on and deliver on their undoubted potential. Not the first time and certainly won't be the last.

Still a young player and there is always the possibility he will still make a name for himself in the game.

 

[Pinchy]

I'd say if a player is young and has some good physical attributes, it's worth working with them to see if you can address their weaknesses. I think Long has improved somewhat in his weak areas but not quickly enough and is still too error prone. If he wants to stay as No2 and continue to learn and improve, I wouldn't have a problem with that but judging by the fact that Ramsdale is on the bench ahead of him, I wonder if the dummy has come out.

Seriously Dane, have you seen any improvements in his displays this season? I saw a complete liability.

I'm not sure he can continue to play the 'young' card anymore. How many proper England caps had the great Peter Shilton won by the same age? Yes, I know I'm not comparing like with like but it's relevant to this age thing which I regard as a redundant argument. George will be a poor 30 year old non-league keeper who used to be a poor third division keeper seven years before.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

I find it funny that people are actually questioning the coaching now.

What qualifies you to say whether or not the coaching is good enough?

As a qualified FA coach I`d suggest that if,after several years a player,in this case a GK who occupies the most important position on the park,has failed to reach a required standard and regularly makes the same mistakes as well as being unable to develop and exhibit the specific skills required;ie communication,catching,organising his defence,commanding his area;then the coach responsible hasn`t either done his job or has "bottled" telling the gaffer the keeper just isn`t good enough.
It`s not Large Hadron Collider complicated.

 

[BushBlade]

As a qualified FA coach I`d suggest that if,after several years a player,in this case a GK who occupies the most important position on the park,has failed to reach a required standard and regularly makes the same mistakes as well as being unable to develop and exhibit the specific skills required;ie communication,catching,organising his defence,commanding his area;then the coach responsible hasn`t either done his job or has "bottled" telling the gaffer the keeper just isn`t good enough.
It`s not Large Hadron Collider complicated.

I'd say that any manager who needs to be told by a coach that one of his players isn't good enough should pack up being a manager and go back to being a physio.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Seriously Dane, have you seen any improvements in his displays this season? I saw a complete liability.

I'm not sure he can continue to play the 'young' card anymore. How many proper England caps had the great Peter Shilton won by the same age? Yes, I know I'm not comparing like with like but it's relevant to this age thing which I regard as a redundant argument. George will be a poor 30 year old non-league keeper who used to be a poor third division keeper seven years before.

I'd say the modern game is a better comparator. Kasper Schmeichel, at Long's age was playing in League 2 for Notts County. He's just won the premier league. I don't think George will make it at a high level. But nor do I think he will be a non-league keeper at 30. I suspect he'll either be playing League 1, or a second choice keeper at a championship club.

 

[BushBlade]

He's certainly not lacking all of the essentials.

Height
Agility
Reflexes

All pretty good. His handling, decision making and communication are questionable. So he is lacking some of the essentials, certainly not all.

Yes, he's lacking some of the essentials; decision making, handling and communications. But the key word is 'essentials'. They're not 'would likes', they're 'must haves'.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

I'd say that any manager who needs to be told by a coach that one of his players isn't good enough should pack up being a manager and go back to being a physio.

Managers make decisions on a number of grounds. Constant feedback from coaches being a major one.
It`s traditionally how a young player gets to become part of a first team match squad by virtue of the manager being advised to watch him.
Alternatively a player may be below par and a coach will feed that back.
A manager can`t always be au fait with a squad of about 40 players inc academy.

 

[JonnyRed(WCFC)]

I'm guessing thats Darren Ward the ex-Notts Cty and Forest keeper???

Might explain a lot then... Wardy was an amazing shot stopper, i remember seeing a Cov v Forest match and Cov battered Forest, had about 30 shots, Wardy repelled everything that day including one of the most amazing saves i've seen from a Chippo full blooded volley which he saw late and dived backwards to tip over the angle of post and bar.

But..he wasnt the most commanding keeper in strong at coming out for crosses so would rely on good solid CB's to do that side of the work for him, on the flip side his communication/vocal side was good for keeping that vulnerability at bay the majority of the time.

So maybe, his weaknesses as a keeper himself have transposed into his coaching side as well and Long has been mirroring what Ward was.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Seriously Dane, have you seen any improvements in his displays this season? I saw a complete liability.

I'm not sure he can continue to play the 'young' card anymore. How many proper England caps had the great Peter Shilton won by the same age? Yes, I know I'm not comparing like with like but it's relevant to this age thing which I regard as a redundant argument. George will be a poor 30 year old non-league keeper who used to be a poor third division keeper seven years before.

Agree he's proved not to be good enough for us and its was self evidently the right move to look to replace him. The same flaws at 17 are still apparent

Think the issue some people have is that he has the attributes (agility / reflexes / size / shot stopping) to do well in the game it's the mental side and lapses in concentration and confidence to command his area that do for him.

Theoretically this could still be ironed out by someone as technically I'd say he could still do well in this league - but only if he can keep it from falling apart when under pressure. I.e you could work on that in away you can't make someone suddenly grow 3 inches or suddenly have lighting reactions.

Anyway, i'd still take him over simmonson everyday of the week

 

[BushBlade]

Managers make decisions on a number of grounds. Constant feedback from coaches being a major one.
It`s traditionally how a young player gets to become part of a first team match squad by virtue of the manager being advised to watch him.
Alternatively a player may be below par and a coach will feed that back.
A manager can`t always be au fait with a squad of about 40 players inc academy.

Agree in the case of kids but George has played in the first team on and off since Wilson was manager.
If CW played Semple or Brooks and he was nowhere near, then I'd say the coaches were partly culpable but not George.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Agree he's proved not to be good enough for us and its was self evidently the right move to look to replace him. The same flaws at 17 are still apparent

Think the issue some people have is that he has the attributes (agility / reflexes / size / shot stopping) to do well in the game it's the mental side and lapses in concentration and confidence to command his area that do for him.

Theoretically this could still be ironed out by someone as technically I'd say he could still do well in this league - but only if he can keep it from falling apart when under pressure. I.e you could work on that in away you can't make someone suddenly grow 3 inches or suddenly have lighting reactions.

Anyway, i'd still take him over simmonson everyday of the week

Yeah this is pretty much the points I was trying to make. Most of his limitations are mental and you would hope those things could be worked on but they haven't improved at the rate you would hope. They still might and he still might make a good career for himself but in the meantime, we look a lot better off with Moore between the sticks.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I'm actually struggling to think of a player that fans have more gleefully wanted to fail at any point in the 25 years I've watched us.

He isn't a particularly good keeper, even in his better spells it's been clear that we could improve on him a lot, but the overreaction to a lot of what he's done on the pitch has probably contributed to his confidence with a knock-on effect to his development.

Yes, despite this, he should recognise that this is a high pressure position and whether he's up to it characterwise (Wilder pretty much alluded to this in an interview last month).

I'm delighted that we at last seem to have found someone in Moore that seems to be an improvement on Long's agility while being vocal and confident. We've needed someone like him since Kenny left. But that doesn't excuse the attitude of plenty of self-defeating fans that have jumped on him at the slightest mistake at a game (or, more ridiculously, had a go at him after doing something decent – as happened away at Walsall last year).

He will probably fashion a career at League 1/2 or in Scotland, and I suspect wherever he goes next he will be a lot happier. We've had far shitter players that have taken a hell of a lot less grief than Long has – and for his part, while not being that good last season he came back into the team at a time confidence in Howard was plummeting week-by-week.

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

I'm actually struggling to think of a player that fans have more gleefully wanted to fail at any point in the 25 years I've watched us.

He isn't a particularly good keeper, even in his better spells it's been clear that we could improve on him a lot, but the overreaction to a lot of what he's done on the pitch has probably contributed to his confidence with a knock-on effect to his development.

Yes, despite this, he should recognise that this is a high pressure position and whether he's up to it characterwise (Wilder pretty much alluded to this in an interview last month).

I'm delighted that we at last seem to have found someone in Moore that seems to be an improvement on Long's agility while being vocal and confident. We've needed someone like him since Kenny left. But that doesn't excuse the attitude of plenty of self-defeating fans that have jumped on him at the slightest mistake at a game (or, more ridiculously, had a go at him after doing something decent – as happened away at Walsall last year).

He will probably fashion a career at League 1/2 or in Scotland, and I suspect wherever he goes next he will be a lot happier. We've had far shitter players that have taken a hell of a lot less grief than Long has – and for his part, while not being that good last season he came back into the team at a time confidence in Howard was plummeting week-by-week.

I very much wanted Long to develop into a good quality keeper. When it became obvious it wasn`t happening,given a keepers mistakes mean 0-1 wheras a strikers only mean 0-0 there isn`t time or room for sentiment.
I wish him all the very best in football and at the same time am very relieved he`s no longer between our sticks.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I very much wanted Long to develop into a good quality keeper. When it became obvious it wasn`t happening,given a keepers mistakes mean 0-1 wheras a strikers only mean 0-0 there isn`t time or room for sentiment.
I wish him all the very best in football and at the same time am very relieved he`s no longer between our sticks.

I agree with all of that, particularly that there's no room for sentiment. I imagine Wilder does too – if he hadn't have thought Long had a good chance of becoming a decent keeper he'd have been joining Howard on the released list.

 

[Pinchy]

I agree with all of that, particularly that there's no room for sentiment. I imagine Wilder does too – if he hadn't have thought Long had a good chance of becoming a decent keeper he'd have been joining Howard on the released list.

I think he'd be on it now, don't you?...

 

[TonyAgana]

It's interesting that Ebanks-Landell's performance was rated so highly despite Moore getting MOTM after making 10 good saves. It's not a big stretch to assume we'd have lost with Long between the sticks, but would Ebanks-Landell have still been given such positive reviews?

 

[seanbeenstattoo]

It's interesting that Ebanks-Landell's performance was rated so highly despite Moore getting MOTM after making 10 good saves. It's not a big stretch to assume we'd have lost with Long between the sticks, but would Ebanks-Landell have still been given such positive reviews?

Ebanks - Landell would have been shown a red card for eating Long after the 5th went in!