Tactics.

[RecordBreakers]

We got promoted playing 3-5-2 and at times 3-4-3 with Norwood and latterly Doyle playing as a single pivot and Berge & McAtee encouraged to get forward and support NDiaye and McBurnie.

So far this season, we’ve largely gone with a double defensive midfield pivot of Vini and Norwood, meaning without Oli we’ve struggled to get up the pitch and often our wingbacks have been hemmed into a back 5.

We largely rely on Hamer to link the back 7 and front 2 on his own and we often only get bodies up the pitch when he, at times today Archer or previously Traore carried the ball and ran at defences.

I’m not saying we should go toe to toe with everyone because we’ll end up like Burnley, but I do think we need to get more than 3 attacking minded players on either by bring McAtee in for Norwood or switching to 4 at the back.

This is the problem the myth that Norwood is a great distributor of the ball.

 

[Keen Blade]

We are out numbered in midfield, do we need two up top which leaves big wholes in midfield.

Archer can't lead the line so unless he has a tall minder to feed off , are you suggesting he should be in midfield ?
He had Akpom helping him to success last season so I think we'll play two strikers.
I think once we have our 3 best midfielders in , we'll be ok.
Norwood can't run so he shouldn't play in a 3.

 

[Keen Blade]

We never seem to have the space or time in the middle that the teams playing us do.

Norwood moves slowly , Souza is only just getting march fit , once McAtee joins in , we'll speed up and then there's Davies & Slimane , all younger lads.
Fleck Osborn & Norwood are 3 of our 9 midfielders who should not be getting many minutes this season.

 

[Keen Blade]

Souza as CDM might allow us more bodies ahead of the ball but I don't see us ditching the 5 at the back - Baldock could handle RB but I don't think we've got a LB who I'd trust. Thomas actually looked like he understood the LWB role which will help but Egan has looked poor so far - hopefully it's down to an injury and not the beginning of the end for him. Anel looked ok there today but maybe Trusty in the middle would be worth a try?

He doesn't even trust Trusty enough to play him so he isn't gonna put him in the middle CCB

 

[Keen Blade]

Our wide centre backs are never gonna get forward and overlap like they did under Wilder. What might help is playing Anel in the centre and using him as a modern day sweeper…he could move out of the back three into midfield when we need an extra body there …

We definitely need to find a way of getting both Harmer and McAtee in the team

The problem with allowing tall Anel to join midfield is that you're leaving the 2 shortarses Egan & Robbo to defend which they struggle to do against big athletic PL strikers like Haaland & Beto.
I love Robbo's attitude but I'd like to see at least 2 of our tall CBs in the team , meaning Anel & Trusty.
I think Anel is terrific at CCB , he plays better there than at RCB.
Egan's star has faded , he's captain and there's no competition for his shirt.

There's a few little conundrums around how we should set up and with which players across the whole team.
Especially in defence & midfield.
Hecky needs use this break to decide on a plan now , and pick his best team to implement it.
Thus far , I have the impression we are just cobbling a side together from week to week and when you look at how we play , there really isn't any method of moving crisply up the pitch.

Are our WBs supposed to be bombing forward or not ?
Are overlapping CBs completely ditched ?
When you think of Autumn 2019 , the PL didn't know what had hit it when we had everyone bar Egan & Hendo - 9 players - on the attack !

We can't possibly go back to that coz the squad doesn't look physically capable , but we do need to start moving it sharply through the thirds like Everton did.

 

[Keen Blade]

Our start has been affected by it taking up till the transfer deadline to get the squad complete. Partly for continuity reasons I can understand Hecky so far sticking with the likes of Norwood and Robinson. We've needed someone who know what we're about until the new signings all arrived and getting ready to take us a few step further.

Gradually I think we'll see the team evolve, and I think Hecky will end up with the following three variants of first XI:


View attachment 170205 View attachment 170206View attachment 170207

I think it's vital that we manage to get both Hamer and McAtee in the team, and really make the most of their talents.

That third lineup without McBurnie is of too small stature for the PL - if you haven't got McBurnie to defend set pieces you at least have Trusty instead of Robbo.

 

[Keen Blade]

Anyway , we have our squad now so it's all down to Hecky to devise & implement a winning formula with hopefully a settled first eleven.
There is such a benefit of a side getting into its groove , everyone instinctively knowing whether their teammates will be , which ones can deal with which sort of passes etc.
When you are going to be battling relegation all season , the last thing you need is constant changes - we don't have the quality to succeed on talent alone , so we must have a system and a fighting spirit.
The system's got to become second nature so the players barely have to think about it.
In the games so far this season , I can see the cogs whirring in the players brains "ooh err , what's the next move ?"
That's why we are so pedestrian , even playing out from Wes - the number of times we recycle the ball having not even got out of our own half is embarrassing - having a system builds confidence and will speed us up.

 

[Charlieblade]

Our start has been affected by it taking up till the transfer deadline to get the squad complete. Partly for continuity reasons I can understand Hecky so far sticking with the likes of Norwood and Robinson. We've needed someone who know what we're about until the new signings all arrived and getting ready to take us a few step further.

Gradually I think we'll see the team evolve, and I think Hecky will end up with the following three variants of first XI:


View attachment 170205 View attachment 170206View attachment 170207

I think it's vital that we manage to get both Hamer and McAtee in the team, and really make the most of their talents.

I give you a like for the variations necessary to deal with home and away tactics, but I also hope that Trusty and Tom Davies can be integrated into that plan too, or am I being naive?

 

[Charlieblade]

Last season, Heckinbottom wanted two players for every position, and he got it because we were hit by injuries and we survived a crucial period with limited losses.

I’m sure that it is unlikely to happen in the EPL! Fans who suggest moving to a back four are usually using that as an excuse to cut out our weakness down the left, with Osborn filling gaps in defence and midfield.

What happens if our shiny new LWB gets injured or suspended now?

 

[Bergen Blade]

I give you a like for the variations necessary to deal with home and away tactics, but I also hope that Trusty and Tom Davies can be integrated into that plan too, or am I being naive?

Davies is in the third team suggestion. Him and Souza should be quite solid, but we'd have to sacrifice a striker to get them two in with McAtee and Hamer. I was looking more at the attacking shape, so kept the back five the same.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Teams dominate us in midfield as they tend to keep the ball and run at us with it, which draws players out and creates space for another player to receive the pass in and exploit.

We rarely keep the ball and run with it (hopefully that will change with McAtee back), and we stand still in space too often waiting for a pass, instead of passing ahead of the player for them to run onto. By the time the pass reaches the static player they are already closed down and either pass as their first touch (often poorly due to the pressure and give it away), or they turn and pass backwards to retain possession.

When we do break forward we are very predictable and our normal attack is to get the ball to the corner of the 18 yard box and touchline and cross it low across the face of the goal inside the 6 yard box. You can crash the net in ice hockey, in football it just isn't that effective. Either that or no one takes responsibility to shoot and everyone is looking for the perfect shot and we end up making 3-4 passes in and around the 18 yard box until either Norwood laces it high over the bar from outside the box, or someone strikes it with no real direction straight at a defender stood one metre in front of them.

In a nutshell, we're too static and immobile, and too predictable, and the final ball is often easily cleared up by the defence or goalkeeper. We also lack the clinical finish, though Hamer did just this against Forest and Archer for both goals on Saturday. So fingers crossed we see more of this from them.

Once Hamer is fully up to speed and we hopefully see him and McAtee together, we'll see some of these areas improve. It's why Duffy and Ndiaye were so good for us, as they weren't afraid to keep the ball and drive at players with it.

What we do need is a plan B for when plan A is failing, and this needs to be implemented before the inevitable conceded goal, not after. Hecky needs to make subs quicker and be prepared to abandon his favourite formation if needs be. An extra midfielder on Saturday could have seen us get back into the game.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

We had no press we gave them too much respect. They are not better than us.

Yes, It seems every team in the Prem have now adopted a high press (some obviously better than others), unfortunately we don’t and it stands out a mile. The only way we can put up any sort of a challenge in this league, is if we can out work the opposition, and the ability to press higher up the pitch is the best work ethic of all. When you stand off teams like we do, there’s a certainty inevitably about the outcome.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Yes, It seems every team in the Prem have now adopted a high press (some obviously better than others), unfortunately we don’t and it stands out a mile. The only way we can put up any sort of a challenge in this league, is if we can out work the opposition, and the ability to press higher up the pitch is the best work ethic of all. When you stand off teams like we do, there’s a certainty inevitably about the outcome.

I don’t think we are fit enough to sustain a high press at the moment.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I don’t think we are fit enough to sustain a high press at the moment.

Fair point, but I think (controversially) a change of formation would bring more men into midfield and allow us to defend much further up the field. Maybe our defensive failings revolve around our stubbornness to cling onto 5 at the back. Also with John Egan’s apparent drop in form and lack of comfortable replacements, this could be the time to educate a new generation of defenders about playing 4 at the back?

 

[Balham]

We had 45% possession on Saturday. Not absolutely terrible by any means.

It's terrible when we're up against a side coached by Sean Dyche, a man who would rather the opposition had the ball.

Davies is in the third team suggestion. Him and Souza should be quite solid, but we'd have to sacrifice a striker to get them two in with McAtee and Hamer. I was looking more at the attacking shape, so kept the back five the same.

Do you think there's an aim to transition to 4 at the back? It's a pity we didn't get chance to experiment against Lincoln beyond giving the fringe players gametime.

Option 1


Option 2 is more defensive


I know it's controversial to come up with United lineups without Egan and Norwood but the former hasn't played well at all and struggles in a back 4 while the latter's lack of mobility is causing us issues in trying to control possession and move up the pitch.

 

[Bergen Blade]

It's terrible when we're up against a side coached by Sean Dyche, a man who would rather the opposition had the ball.


Do you think there's an aim to transition to 4 at the back? It's a pity we didn't get chance to experiment against Lincoln beyond giving the fringe players gametime.

Option 1
View attachment 170492

Option 2 is more defensive
View attachment 170491

I know it's controversial to come up with United lineups without Egan and Norwood but the former hasn't played well at all and struggles in a back 4 while the latter's lack of mobility is causing us issues in trying to control possession and move up the pitch.

Like those suggestions, but not sure Hecky's considering a back four yet. If we keep losing he'll have to try some changes though.

 

[TopBoy]

It's terrible when we're up against a side coached by Sean Dyche, a man who would rather the opposition had the ball.


Do you think there's an aim to transition to 4 at the back? It's a pity we didn't get chance to experiment against Lincoln beyond giving the fringe players gametime.

Option 1
View attachment 170492

Option 2 is more defensive
View attachment 170491

I know it's controversial to come up with United lineups without Egan and Norwood but the former hasn't played well at all and struggles in a back 4 while the latter's lack of mobility is causing us issues in trying to control possession and move up the pitch.

Like both of these. When we were blessed with defenders that could attack (JOC, Stevens and to a lesser extent Bash and Baldock) the 3 at the back made sense. Now we've ended up with more pure defenders so I'd suggest our balance would be better with a back 4.

Interestingly we often go to a back 4 when chasing a game ...

 

[Tarqs]

I've not seen any evidence whatsoever to suggest Egan struggles anymore in a back 4 than he does in a back 5.

Another bladey myth.

 

[Snowflake]

Last season, Heckinbottom wanted two players for every position, and he got it because we were hit by injuries and we survived a crucial period with limited losses.

I’m sure that it is unlikely to happen in the EPL! Fans who suggest moving to a back four are usually using that as an excuse to cut out our weakness down the left, with Osborn filling gaps in defence and midfield.

What happens if our shiny new LWB gets injured or suspended now?

Suspended is probably into the winter, but if injured we would hope that one of the others is back.

 

[Balham]

I've not seen any evidence whatsoever to suggest Egan struggles anymore in a back 4 than he does in a back 5.

Another bladey myth.

He's barely played in a four for us barring the Jokanovic era and that was awful all round. However, he didn't play for Ireland when they played a 4; he's a mainstay now they play a 5. He frequently struggles against a physical forward and it seems to me that he's being targeted for this so far this season.

 

[Charlieblade]

He's barely played in a four for us barring the Jokanovic era and that was awful all round. However, he didn't play for Ireland when they played a 4; he's a mainstay now they play a 5. He frequently struggles against a physical forward and it seems to me that he's being targeted for this so far this season.

Not sure if it’s even relevant today. Egan has a few flaws in his general play anyway and the league standard is higher since he, and others played two years ago. All long serving players have done the club proud, but eventually it catches up with everyone.
Sharp, Stevens and Didzy all realised this, and they have moved on.

Fleck, Norwood, Egan and eventually Baldock too, will arrive at the same point. Not slagging them off as club heroes and loyal servants one and all. One day it will be too much for each and every one. That’s life.

 

[GymClassHero]

Our start has been affected by it taking up till the transfer deadline to get the squad complete. Partly for continuity reasons I can understand Hecky so far sticking with the likes of Norwood and Robinson. We've needed someone who know what we're about until the new signings all arrived and getting ready to take us a few step further.

Gradually I think we'll see the team evolve, and I think Hecky will end up with the following three variants of first XI:


View attachment 170205 View attachment 170206View attachment 170207

I think it's vital that we manage to get both Hamer and McAtee in the team, and really make the most of their talents.

I'd imagine trusty will take Robbos place eventually