Tactically still feeling things out

[Rodley]

It smacked of a pre-season performance for me and you could see the lack of energy and drive in the legs - all symptomatic of lack of competitive minutes.

What I did find interesting was Slav is clearly adaptable “in game” and also still working out what formation suits the players. We looked like a conventional 3 up front to begin with Didzy wide, then he moved him back into the number 10 / free role. Later on we looked like one striker leading the line and a bank of 3 sitting behind!

It points to me that Slav and his team are still feeling out the squad and team. With RND or Stevens taking the LB birth and a LCB we’ll look better defensively. Viera gives us more dynamism in midfield as will Garner if we get him. These are the right additions IMHO.

The conundrum will be up top and how we work a front three, Burke has the mobility but I feel is too limited in key areas. We need a wide striker on loan and then I’d go with Brewster as the player on the left. There were a couple of decent bursts down the channel which show he has the attributes. Then it’s Sharp or McB up the middle.

I back Slav to work it out over 3 or 4 games.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It smacked of a pre-season performance for me and you could see the lack of energy and drive in the legs - all symptomatic of lack of competitive minutes.

What I did find interesting was Slav is clearly adaptable “in game” and also still working out what formation suits the players. We looked like a conventional 3 up front to begin with Didzy wide, then he moved him back into the number 10 / free role. Later on we looked like one striker leading the line and a bank of 3 sitting behind!

It points to me that Slav and his team are still feeling out the squad and team. With RND or Stevens taking the LB birth and a LCB we’ll look better defensively. Viera gives us more dynamism in midfield as will Garner if we get him. These are the right additions IMHO.

The conundrum will be up top and how we work a front three, Burke has the mobility but I feel is too limited in key areas. We need a wide striker on loan and then I’d go with Brewster as the player on the left. There were a couple of decent bursts down the channel which show he has the attributes. Then it’s Sharp or McB up the middle.

I back Slav to work it out over 3 or 4 games.

If he can't work out Burke should be no where near a football pitch then I'm not convinced.

Why play Ozzy at LB when we have RND?

 

[Kanye]

"still feeling out the squad and team" is a very polite way of saying "hasn't got a clue what team or formation to play"

 

[Blade56]

Looks like he’s building our team around Burke’s speed. Think he’s now realised Burke can get there but thats all he’s got. Hopefully now he’s seen how crap he is he’ll change tactics.

 

[Jon Bon II]

To be fair, we never seem to do well against sides that score more goals than us. This has been the case since I started watching us in the 70's, so it's nothing new. I reckon if you look back at all the games we've lost in the last 30 years, most - if not all - will be against teams that scored more goals than us on the day. Teams have got us sussed now and it's a bit embarrassing. Fair play to Birmingham though. They came with a game plan of either scoring more than us or making sure that we didn't score as many as they did and it worked. Credit where credit's due.

 

[bertieblade]

If he can't work out Burke should be no where near a football pitch then I'm not convinced.

Why play Ozzy at LB when we have RND?

RND has been injured and has only trained for last two days
The player more suited to playing LB is Lowe but Wilder wasted more money on a useless player

 

[Rodley]

RND has been injured and has only trained for last two days
The player more suited to playing LB is Lowe but Wilder wasted more money on a useless player

yep I think that’s Lowe done

 

[BrianBadonde]

Osborn, Robinson, Burke. To a lesser extent Norwood. All wouldn’t look out of place on current form, and in some cases talent alone in L1.

 

[Rodley]

Osborn, Robinson, Burke. To a lesser extent Norwood. All wouldn’t look out of place on current form, and in some cases talent alone in L1.

The left side of defence doesn’t work with those two in it. We either need an addition at LCB or switch to a back 3. Basham can do the role in the short-term.

Burke has shown glimpses presumably in friendlies and perhaps trains well, but SJ is experienced enough to bomb him out if he keeps performing like that. The difficulty will be he’s one of the most suited to the three up top arrangement.

We need some additions if we want to stick with a back four IMHO.

 

[BrianBadonde]

The left side of defence doesn’t work with those two in it. We either need an addition at LCB or switch to a back 3. Basham can do the role in the short-term.

Burke has shown glimpses presumably in friendlies and perhaps trains well, but SJ is experienced enough to bomb him out if he keeps performing like that. The difficulty will be he’s one of the most suited to the three up top arrangement.

We need some additions if we want to stick with a back four IMHO.

Definitely. A left centre half is a necessity. Vieira obviously done, which will be nice but we need some creativity in there too, and a wide forward with some actual football talent to go with his pace.

 

[Rodley]

Definitely. A left centre half is a necessity. Vieira obviously done, which will be nice but we need some creativity in there too, and a wide forward with some actual football talent to go with his pace.

Will be interesting, I think he’ll perservere with a back four for the next two away games. Hopefully we can get a few loans in.

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

The league cup game midweek will be a good opportunity to work on things and get those all important first goals.

 

[BrianBadonde]

The league cup game midweek will be a good opportunity to work on things and get those all important first goals.

Yep. Full strength for me

 

[blade67]

It smacked of a pre-season performance for me and you could see the lack of energy and drive in the legs - all symptomatic of lack of competitive minutes.

What I did find interesting was Slav is clearly adaptable “in game” and also still working out what formation suits the players. We looked like a conventional 3 up front to begin with Didzy wide, then he moved him back into the number 10 / free role. Later on we looked like one striker leading the line and a bank of 3 sitting behind!

It points to me that Slav and his team are still feeling out the squad and team. With RND or Stevens taking the LB birth and a LCB we’ll look better defensively. Viera gives us more dynamism in midfield as will Garner if we get him. These are the right additions IMHO.

The conundrum will be up top and how we work a front three, Burke has the mobility but I feel is too limited in key areas. We need a wide striker on loan and then I’d go with Brewster as the player on the left. There were a couple of decent bursts down the channel which show he has the attributes. Then it’s Sharp or McB up the middle.

I back Slav to work it out over 3 or 4 games.

He also changed to 442 at one point in the first half,. It really did feel like a pre -season in terms of trying out different approaches and it didn't really click with any of them.

The most concerning aspect though was how easily Birmingham cut us to pieces on 3 or 4 occasions. Whatever we do with the ball, that needs to addressed because the better sides would have had 2 or 3 last night

 

[Bladezz]

This side has 343 why doesn’t he just play that

 

[Delboyscap]

To be fair to SJ he is working with a squad built to play a certain system and so far, he has not been able to bring in any of his own players. To add to his challenge he has a squad depleted of confidence and belief. He needs time and some patience. He has shown he is a good manager with his prior record so no reason to think that given time he will not be able to get a tune out of most of the players.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

It may be a flaw of previous recruitment, but we have a squad of players suited to 3-5-2 and exceptionally well drilled in that system. Even within that, there were gaps. The need for a driving midfielder, the need for a creative CAM, the need for genuine reinforcement at LCB (if we go ANOTHER window without that btw, I will lose my shit).

Now, we've added extra confusion to the mix by bringing tactical changes, but without proper time to hone those. There was no system last night, we looked clueless and a way off Bournemouth or WBA the might before. We also looked exceptionally frail at the back.

Osborn is a good LWB and would be interesting in midfield in a high press. He isn't a LB.

Robinson isn't a LCB in a two, he isn't strong enough and we are dire need of a physical and aerial presence there. Combine him with Osborn at LB and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Berge or Norwood, but not both - at least in terms of instructions to drop deep. Both play it differently. Norwood, as unpopular as this may be, still has a role to play IMO, if you want someone to dictate long passing. Berge won't offer you that. Berge was stellar second half but only when he began to drive.

Didzy now is anonymous. Dropping deep when your only outlets are then Burke and Moose without a 9 focal point leads to dead end after dead end. We looked dangerously close to "sod it, hoof it, let the fast lads run" last night.

Change and evolution will happen but work on it gradually in training, and with the right recruitment. We're fresh off the back of a disrupted preseason, no recruitment and only 2 friendlies. Stick to what we know for now, but freshen that up.

To do list:

• Bring Bash in, shore up a weak and disorganised back line. Go 3 at the back, don't ask Egan to do everything. Every team will man mark Egan in both boxes, he's our only aerial presence. It's so obvious.
• Bring in a LCB. Capable to learn a new 2 CB system but capable to go with what we know for now.
• Ask Berge or Norwood to sit, not both. Ask Berge to drive, ideally. And use Fleck, Freeman or a new signing to do the same. It'll lead to midfield overloads. Or, factor in Viera to do the holding role.
• Bring in a CAM or deploy Freeman there. Get back to the overlapping centre back system that was impactful, the Duffyball in its pomp system, not the Prem flat midfield 3 dead on its arse version.

 

[Weasel]

It may be a flaw of previous recruitment, but we have a squad of players suited to 3-5-2 and exceptionally well drilled in that system. Even within that, there were gaps. The need for a driving midfielder, the need for a creative CAM, the need for genuine reinforcement at LCB (if we go ANOTHER window without that btw, I will lose my shit).

Now, we've added extra confusion to the mix by bringing tactical changes, but without proper time to hone those. There was no system last night, we looked clueless and a way off Bournemouth or WBA the might before. We also looked exceptionally frail at the back.

Osborn is a good LWB and would be interesting in midfield in a high press. He isn't a LB.

Robinson isn't a LCB in a two, he isn't strong enough and we are dire need of a physical and aerial presence there. Combine him with Osborn at LB and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Berge or Norwood, but not both - at least in terms of instructions to drop deep. Both play it differently. Norwood, as unpopular as this may be, still has a role to play IMO, if you want someone to dictate long passing. Berge won't offer you that. Berge was stellar second half but only when he began to drive.

Didzy now is anonymous. Dropping deep when your only outlets are then Burke and Moose without a 9 focal point leads to dead end after dead end. We looked dangerously close to "sod it, hoof it, let the fast lads run" last night.

Change and evolution will happen but work on it gradually in training, and with the right recruitment. We're fresh off the back of a disrupted preseason, no recruitment and only 2 friendlies. Stick to what we know for now, but freshen that up.

To do list:

• Bring Bash in, shore up a weak and disorganised back line. Go 3 at the back, don't ask Egan to do everything. Every team will man mark Egan in both boxes, he's our only aerial presence. It's so obvious.
• Bring in a LCB. Capable to learn a new 2 CB system but capable to go with what we know for now.
• Ask Berge or Norwood to sit, not both. Ask Berge to drive, ideally. And use Fleck, Freeman or a new signing to do the same. It'll lead to midfield overloads. Or, factor in Viera to do the holding role.
• Bring in a CAM or deploy Freeman there. Get back to the overlapping centre back system that was impactful, the Duffyball in its pomp system, not the Prem flat midfield 3 dead on its arse version.

Agree with all that.

 

[ATL Recs]

To be fair, we never seem to do well against sides that score more goals than us. This has been the case since I started watching us in the 70's, so it's nothing new. I reckon if you look back at all the games we've lost in the last 30 years, most - if not all - will be against teams that scored more goals than us on the day. Teams have got us sussed now and it's a bit embarrassing. Fair play to Birmingham though. They came with a game plan of either scoring more than us or making sure that we didn't score as many as they did and it worked. Credit where credit's due.

Any of that smoke left

 

[Carlton Blade]

We have loads of forwards but I don't see a 3 that compliments each other. I definitely think we need a central forward as a focus point (Jutkiewicz would genuinely be a great signing for us) and ideally we need 2 wide forwards out of what we have left.

Biggest concern is that without full backs bombing forwards constantly it's tough to fit Didzy into a 433

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

We don't currently have the players for a back four or a front three. So playing some sort of weird 4-4-2/4-3-3 hybrid (which the players didn't seem to understand) is probably going to take some doing. It's pretty bizarre that we've spent all summer saying "evolution not revolution" and now we are trying to completely change the system and apparently bring in 5 new players.

 

[Rodley]

It may be a flaw of previous recruitment, but we have a squad of players suited to 3-5-2 and exceptionally well drilled in that system. Even within that, there were gaps. The need for a driving midfielder, the need for a creative CAM, the need for genuine reinforcement at LCB (if we go ANOTHER window without that btw, I will lose my shit).

Now, we've added extra confusion to the mix by bringing tactical changes, but without proper time to hone those. There was no system last night, we looked clueless and a way off Bournemouth or WBA the might before. We also looked exceptionally frail at the back.

Osborn is a good LWB and would be interesting in midfield in a high press. He isn't a LB.

Robinson isn't a LCB in a two, he isn't strong enough and we are dire need of a physical and aerial presence there. Combine him with Osborn at LB and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Berge or Norwood, but not both - at least in terms of instructions to drop deep. Both play it differently. Norwood, as unpopular as this may be, still has a role to play IMO, if you want someone to dictate long passing. Berge won't offer you that. Berge was stellar second half but only when he began to drive.

Didzy now is anonymous. Dropping deep when your only outlets are then Burke and Moose without a 9 focal point leads to dead end after dead end. We looked dangerously close to "sod it, hoof it, let the fast lads run" last night.

Change and evolution will happen but work on it gradually in training, and with the right recruitment. We're fresh off the back of a disrupted preseason, no recruitment and only 2 friendlies. Stick to what we know for now, but freshen that up.

To do list:

• Bring Bash in, shore up a weak and disorganised back line. Go 3 at the back, don't ask Egan to do everything. Every team will man mark Egan in both boxes, he's our only aerial presence. It's so obvious.
• Bring in a LCB. Capable to learn a new 2 CB system but capable to go with what we know for now.
• Ask Berge or Norwood to sit, not both. Ask Berge to drive, ideally. And use Fleck, Freeman or a new signing to do the same. It'll lead to midfield overloads. Or, factor in Viera to do the holding role.
• Bring in a CAM or deploy Freeman there. Get back to the overlapping centre back system that was impactful, the Duffyball in its pomp system, not the Prem flat midfield 3 dead on its arse version.

To be fair Berge’s role was to drive, he just didn’t do it first half.

I’d go with what Slav is doing, no point procrastinating the implementation of a new system. On the basis additions are imminent I’d just push on with it, the players will pick it up.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

To be fair Berge’s role was to drive, he just didn’t do it first half.

I’d go with what Slav is doing, no point procrastinating the implementation of a new system. On the basis additions are imminent I’d just push on with it, the players will pick it up.

Then judging by this place in the last 12 hours we might need a...

"WORK IN PROGRESS - new dawn pending - we might be shit for a bit, bear with us" post putting out

 

[Rodley]

Then judging by this place in the last 12 hours we might need a...

"WORK IN PROGRESS - new dawn pending - we might be shit for a bit, bear with us" post putting out

Of course we do.

New manager, completely new system, bedding in period will take time particularly with a stop start pre-season and little recruitment yet. There are going to be bad results. It was ever thus.

 

[Rodley]

We don't currently have the players for a back four or a front three. So playing some sort of weird 4-4-2/4-3-3 hybrid (which the players didn't seem to understand) is probably going to take some doing. It's pretty bizarre that we've spent all summer saying "evolution not revolution" and now we are trying to completely change the system and apparently bring in 5 new players.

If we get this LCB in, which sounds like it will happen, we’ll have a quality back four at this level.

Wilder’s system is baked in. It will take time for a quality manager to implement something.

If people won’t accept a period of change in this first half a dozen games, then we should have stuck with Hecky.

 

[cooperblade]

Loads of time to settle down and work things out and I'm confident we'll improve.

The thing that confused me last night was how wide our left and right midfielders were in the 3. It often looked like we had 1 player in central midfield and it was difficult to put passing combinations together in midfield which meant we hit a lot of balls into the channels.

The 4-2-3-1 near the end made more sense from a midfield point of view but Brewster and McBurnie as the wide forwards shows we maybe don't have the front players for that system at the moment?

 

[Kop sufferer]

To be fair, we never seem to do well against sides that score more goals than us. This has been the case since I started watching us in the 70's, so it's nothing new. I reckon if you look back at all the games we've lost in the last 30 years, most - if not all - will be against teams that scored more goals than us on the day. Teams have got us sussed now and it's a bit embarrassing. Fair play to Birmingham though. They came with a game plan of either scoring more than us or making sure that we didn't score as many as they did and it worked. Credit where credit's due.

Yep, I'll give credit to Brum but not for their footballing nouse, but they are big and strong, well versed in the dark arts and street wise. We made it easy for them at times all they had to do was get and keep their shape and let us tippy tappy in our own half, let us play the triangles and then use whatever methods they needed to break up play.
Many times at corners for instance we left no one up field, all 20 players in our half/ box which left us with no out ball, Brum will be a hard team to beat this season, but I can't see them top 6.
Us ? it's welcome back to the cut and thrust of the Championship.. time will tell, let's give it the 10 game syndrome before we complely stress out. UTB

 

[Rodley]

Loads of time to settle down and work things out and I'm confident we'll improve.

The thing that confused me last night was how wide our left and right midfielders were in the 3. It often looked like we had 1 player in central midfield and it was difficult to put passing combinations together in midfield which meant we hit a lot of balls into the channels.

The 4-2-3-1 near the end made more sense from a midfield point of view but Brewster and McBurnie as the wide forwards shows we maybe don't have the front players for that system at the moment?

I think Brewster might be alright on the left cutting inside. Mousset is done and McB or Sharp needs that central role.

 

[JJBlade]

It wasn't tiredness
It wasn't rustiness
It wasn't lack of effort
It wasn't a new manager needing to settle in
It wasn't new players trying to bed themselves into a system

It was the same thing that it always is, a simple lack of creativity and movement.

Basic footballing skills, passing, moving, control, technique, style, grace, ability, finesse and fitness are something the fans of this club will never see, and worse still will never want to see.

We only ever succeed when we have workhorses, and it only works if we work harder than other teams.

When the tiniest smidgeon of guile, skill, creativity, technique, control, vision and finesse is needed because another team works as hard as our workhorses, we've had it.

It doesn't matter who the manager is, it doesn't matter who the boardroom are, this club will never have an ounce of style or swagger on a football pitch, ever.

We are either able to work harder than other teams, or we are not, and if a team matches us for work rate, even the tiniest smidgeon of quality that they will have that we don't, will be enough.

Every player noted for his vision and creativity is a failure at this club. We just don't do it.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The structure of the team was horrific, so the defeat lies with the manager.The better managed team won the game; not the better players. We don't have the player to play four at the back or three up top - simple as that. Mousset, Sharp, Mcgoldrick and Brewster are all more comfortable in a two so who in their right mind would play a forward line that suits your worst forward Burke? It's nonsensical.
We don't have the centre backs capable of playing in a four either. The left side of Robinson and Osborn is too small and not good enough defensively. Osborn is a left wing back, the left of a midfield or left of a front three. Nowt else. Robinson is left of a back three. Nowt else.Egan is more comfortable in a three.

If he really wants to play this way, smash the lot up and bring in players that can play your style. Two wide men, two centre backs suited to a four (we need three, Egan and two others) two box to box midfielders(Brown types). Major surgery needed. If not play to our strengths, and bring in a left sided defender and a midfielder that can play the Kante role. A Duffy type would also be nice.

Patience is needed but I was shocked at just how disorganised we were.