Tactical Stuff

[Chali 2na]

It may just be me, but has anyone else noticed a tactical switch since the 3-3 draw with Aston Villa? I felt that at that point, we were more fluid as a team, more dangerous going forward but with an admittedly softer under-belly. Since then, the team has felt sturdier: less effective/attractive going forward, but better at grinding out results, such as the ones against WBA, Boro and Leeds.

I think it stems from us limiting the use of our over-lapping CBs, playing a no 10 less often and being more direct.
We've not abandoned our tactics, and our system is still clearly defined, but there does seem to be a subtle change to the way we play, at least in my eyes.

Whether or not it's a good thing is hypothetical, and could be argued either way. You could say we've been less convincing since the Villa game, so it's a bad thing. You could say we've played better opposition since then, and that it has been necessary to our sucesss.
One thing that is certain, is that if we were to be promoted is we'll be up against better opposition on a regular basis. Teams are going attack us with more speed and ferocity and teams will be far more likely to press us, especially at home. Based on our performance agasint Bristol; we don't handle being pressed all that well.

That's why I wonder: Will we see tactical changes to the way we play, should we be promoted?

If we had to reign in sending our CBs forward, in order to be more defensively solid: Would we consider using a system with wingers, who would replace the CB in the role of spare man when we create overloads and attack wide?

Would we consider recruiting a player with an ability/confidence to shoot from outside the area, for times when teams are allowing us to have the ball outside their box?

Will we be able to recruit a player with pace to disrupt teams who play a high line against us and give us more of a threat when we counter?

Obviously I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but I'm confident Wilder would continue to make good decisions and equip us properly for whatever challenges face us next year. Just wondering what other members of the forum think: Has our style changed? If so, is that a good thing? Would we have to change again (tactically) in the event we're promoted?

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

You could say we've played better opposition since then, and that it has been necessary to our sucesss.

That was certainly Wilder's take, when interviewed recently...

 

[Snowman]

I think I can sum it up by saying I haven't a clue what Wilder has been doing recently but as long as the players know I'll live with it.

 

[Chali 2na]

That was certainly Wilder's take, when interviewed recently...

I know, I'm not saying he's wrong.

He's unlikely to tell the press "the fuck up against villa was so monumental that I've decided to alter my approach ever since" though, is he? (Whether or not that's actually the case)

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I think we are being slightly more cautious.

We only have tend to have one centre back bombing forward at a time now instead of both.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

I know, I'm not saying he's wrong.

He's unlikely to tell the press "the fuck up against villa was so monumental that I've decided to alter my approach ever since" though, is he? (Whether or not that's actually the case)

Games like Fulham at home last season and Villa away this must have some kind of effect.

 

[Chali 2na]

Games like Fulham at home last season and Villa away this must have some kind of effect.

You would think so, wouldn't you?

 

[georgebernardshaw]

It could be that Chris wanted to avoid a similar situation to last season when, to my mind anyway, the team blew up due to exhaustion - most of them were dead on their feet.

A bigger and better squad this season, and perhaps he’s modified the approach slightly to suit the incoming players.

 

[hidesbehindapseudonym]

We often think of ourselves as being fragile at the back. This season's stats totally disprove that.

 

[him behind you]

It may just be me, but has anyone else noticed a tactical switch since the 3-3 draw with Aston Villa? I felt that at that point, we were more fluid as a team, more dangerous going forward but with an admittedly softer under-belly. Since then, the team has felt sturdier: less effective/attractive going forward, but better at grinding out results, such as the ones against WBA, Boro and Leeds.

I think it stems from us limiting the use of our over-lapping CBs, playing a no 10 less often and being more direct.
We've not abandoned our tactics, and our system is still clearly defined, but there does seem to be a subtle change to the way we play, at least in my eyes.

Whether or not it's a good thing is hypothetical, and could be argued either way. You could say we've been less convincing since the Villa game, so it's a bad thing. You could say we've played better opposition since then, and that it has been necessary to our sucesss.
One thing that is certain, is that if we were to be promoted is we'll be up against better opposition on a regular basis. Teams are going attack us with more speed and ferocity and teams will be far more likely to press us, especially at home. Based on our performance agasint Bristol; we don't handle being pressed all that well.

That's why I wonder: Will we see tactical changes to the way we play, should we be promoted?

If we had to reign in sending our CBs forward, in order to be more defensively solid: Would we consider using a system with wingers, who would replace the CB in the role of spare man when we create overloads and attack wide?

Would we consider recruiting a player with an ability/confidence to shoot from outside the area, for times when teams are allowing us to have the ball outside their box?

Will we be able to recruit a player with pace to disrupt teams who play a high line against us and give us more of a threat when we counter?

Obviously I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but I'm confident Wilder would continue to make good decisions and equip us properly for whatever challenges face us next year. Just wondering what other members of the forum think: Has our style changed? If so, is that a good thing? Would we have to change again (tactically) in the event we're promoted?

Absolutely agree. We certainly have not been that gung-ho, let's press the opposition into submission by committing men forward constantly. Personally I miss it and if we end up missing out on promotion, I think it could be that which costs us.......but there again it could be that which gets us up, we'll never know which.

However, if we do make it I'd love us to just revert to what we've done for 3 years and have a go. The odds are we'll get relegated whichever way we play so let's enjoy it and see how many of these top teams can handle it. We might take a few heavy beatings but got it would be fun.

 

[Chali 2na]

We often think of ourselves as being fragile at the back. This season's stats totally disprove that.

The question isn't whether or not were fragile at the back. The question is; are we more or less fragile since Villa?

However, if we do make it I'd love us to just revert to what we've done for 3 years and have a go. The odds are we'll get relegated whichever way we play so let's enjoy it and see how many of these top teams can handle it. We might take a few heavy beatings but got it would be fun.

Not sure I agree: Getting trounced every week doesn't sound that fun to me!

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Adding the ability to grind out a result and shore up a defence to our armoury shows progress and growth. Well done to the whole squad.

 

[Chali 2na]

Adding the ability to grind out a result and shore up a defence to our armoury shows progress and growth. Well done to the whole squad.

Yes it does. It's just concerning that it seems to coincide with us struggling to perform at our best when going forward.

 

[Pinchy]

If we go up, we should recruit a latter day Lurch to lumber to the halfway line and launch a long punt in the general direction of two static, useless giants in the opposition penalty area.

Cut out midfield completely. Tear up the Desso. Play grotesque, alehouse anti-football. Gerritforrard and Gerritinearly. Nowt fancy. Kick it Long; Kick it Hard; Kick it High.

S2 heaven.

 

[super_pig]

It may just be me, but has anyone else noticed a tactical switch since the 3-3 draw with Aston Villa? I felt that at that point, we were more fluid as a team, more dangerous going forward but with an admittedly softer under-belly. Since then, the team has felt sturdier: less effective/attractive going forward, but better at grinding out results, such as the ones against WBA, Boro and Leeds.

I think it stems from us limiting the use of our over-lapping CBs, playing a no 10 less often and being more direct.
We've not abandoned our tactics, and our system is still clearly defined, but there does seem to be a subtle change to the way we play, at least in my eyes.

Whether or not it's a good thing is hypothetical, and could be argued either way. You could say we've been less convincing since the Villa game, so it's a bad thing. You could say we've played better opposition since then, and that it has been necessary to our sucesss.
One thing that is certain, is that if we were to be promoted is we'll be up against better opposition on a regular basis. Teams are going attack us with more speed and ferocity and teams will be far more likely to press us, especially at home. Based on our performance agasint Bristol; we don't handle being pressed all that well.

That's why I wonder: Will we see tactical changes to the way we play, should we be promoted?

If we had to reign in sending our CBs forward, in order to be more defensively solid: Would we consider using a system with wingers, who would replace the CB in the role of spare man when we create overloads and attack wide?

Would we consider recruiting a player with an ability/confidence to shoot from outside the area, for times when teams are allowing us to have the ball outside their box?

Will we be able to recruit a player with pace to disrupt teams who play a high line against us and give us more of a threat when we counter?

Obviously I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but I'm confident Wilder would continue to make good decisions and equip us properly for whatever challenges face us next year. Just wondering what other members of the forum think: Has our style changed? If so, is that a good thing? Would we have to change again (tactically) in the event we're promoted?

i agree with the OP .. Wilder is preparing us for the Prem shame really i like the cavalier style but i reckon it takes too much out of the players to do it week in week out vs higher quality oppo

 

[Ricky]

We have changed the way we play. We take less risks, positionally and in possession.

More than anything though, I think the combination of the Villa debacle and the business end of the season has sharpened a lot of minds in that dressing room. They know what a serious opportunity they've got and have simply done what had to be done to get the results.

Wilder will also have had energy conservation in mind which will have played a part, and he's also become more nervous and less brave as the promotion possibility became serious.

The defensive unit has also got stronger the more they've played together. After 25 games or so, they started to peak. Confidence in that defence has further facilitated a different approach. Then the clean sheets breed more confidence.

It also has to be said that we've ridden our luck. That amount of 1-0 away wins and clean sheets in a row was quite unreasonable.

We'll be in the Championship next season so don't worry about any possible tactical changes for the PL.

 

[Carlton Blade]

It may just be me, but has anyone else noticed a tactical switch since the 3-3 draw with Aston Villa? I felt that at that point, we were more fluid as a team, more dangerous going forward but with an admittedly softer under-belly. Since then, the team has felt sturdier: less effective/attractive going forward, but better at grinding out results, such as the ones against WBA, Boro and Leeds.

I think it stems from us limiting the use of our over-lapping CBs, playing a no 10 less often and being more direct.
We've not abandoned our tactics, and our system is still clearly defined, but there does seem to be a subtle change to the way we play, at least in my eyes.

Whether or not it's a good thing is hypothetical, and could be argued either way. You could say we've been less convincing since the Villa game, so it's a bad thing. You could say we've played better opposition since then, and that it has been necessary to our sucesss.
One thing that is certain, is that if we were to be promoted is we'll be up against better opposition on a regular basis. Teams are going attack us with more speed and ferocity and teams will be far more likely to press us, especially at home. Based on our performance agasint Bristol; we don't handle being pressed all that well.

That's why I wonder: Will we see tactical changes to the way we play, should we be promoted?

If we had to reign in sending our CBs forward, in order to be more defensively solid: Would we consider using a system with wingers, who would replace the CB in the role of spare man when we create overloads and attack wide?

Would we consider recruiting a player with an ability/confidence to shoot from outside the area, for times when teams are allowing us to have the ball outside their box?

Will we be able to recruit a player with pace to disrupt teams who play a high line against us and give us more of a threat when we counter?

Obviously I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but I'm confident Wilder would continue to make good decisions and equip us properly for whatever challenges face us next year. Just wondering what other members of the forum think: Has our style changed? If so, is that a good thing? Would we have to change again (tactically) in the event we're promoted?

Over the course of a full season the post Villa performances are definitely more sustainable.

In a one off game where you know you will need to score at least 2, the Boxing Day - 80 mins at Villa style was better.

We are a better team, but much more traditional now. If we do go up and play like that we'll need a big talent upgrade because we'll gain less from the differentiation in our system than we used to.

 

[Chali 2na]

We'll be in the Championship next season so don't worry about any possible tactical changes for the PL.

Huh?

 

[Ricky]

Huh?

One Game At A Time Plenty Of Twists And Turns Yet

 

[Chali 2na]

One Game At A Time Plenty Of Twists And Turns Yet

Not confident?

 

[Ricky]

Not confident?

At this stage I wouldn't say even if I was confident.

I've said for quite a while now it's 50/50, and every passing week seems to be proving me right. Anything could happen. Win at Hull and we're in a very nice position though - but far from unassailable. Because I'm not confident of winning at Stoke.

 

[Willglynning]

If we go up, we should recruit a latter day Lurch to lumber to the halfway line and launch a long punt in the general direction of two static, useless giants in the opposition penalty area.

Cut out midfield completely. Tear up the Desso. Play grotesque, alehouse anti-football. Gerritforrard and Gerritinearly. Nowt fancy. Kick it Long; Kick it Hard; Kick it High.

S2 heaven.

Who here is suggesting that they’d want to see that?

 

[John Street West Terrace]

It may just be me, but has anyone else noticed a tactical switch since the 3-3 draw with Aston Villa? I felt that at that point, we were more fluid as a team, more dangerous going forward but with an admittedly softer under-belly. Since then, the team has felt sturdier: less effective/attractive going forward, but better at grinding out results, such as the ones against WBA, Boro and Leeds.

I think it stems from us limiting the use of our over-lapping CBs, playing a no 10 less often and being more direct.
We've not abandoned our tactics, and our system is still clearly defined, but there does seem to be a subtle change to the way we play, at least in my eyes.

Whether or not it's a good thing is hypothetical, and could be argued either way. You could say we've been less convincing since the Villa game, so it's a bad thing. You could say we've played better opposition since then, and that it has been necessary to our sucesss.
One thing that is certain, is that if we were to be promoted is we'll be up against better opposition on a regular basis. Teams are going attack us with more speed and ferocity and teams will be far more likely to press us, especially at home. Based on our performance agasint Bristol; we don't handle being pressed all that well.

That's why I wonder: Will we see tactical changes to the way we play, should we be promoted?

If we had to reign in sending our CBs forward, in order to be more defensively solid: Would we consider using a system with wingers, who would replace the CB in the role of spare man when we create overloads and attack wide?

Would we consider recruiting a player with an ability/confidence to shoot from outside the area, for times when teams are allowing us to have the ball outside their box?

Will we be able to recruit a player with pace to disrupt teams who play a high line against us and give us more of a threat when we counter?

Obviously I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but I'm confident Wilder would continue to make good decisions and equip us properly for whatever challenges face us next year. Just wondering what other members of the forum think: Has our style changed? If so, is that a good thing? Would we have to change again (tactically) in the event we're promoted?

Yeh I agree that we have definitely become for defensively minded since then , I did like to see us when we’re a bit more adventurous but it has dug us out some wins / points away from home ie. Leeds , Preston and Brum are 3 that spring to mind . I think last season we were a bit too naive going forward and got our pockets picked by more ‘professional ‘ teams so possibly it is a move in that direction. Heard interview with Paul Cook after Wigan’s draw with Norwich and he was saying that his side should have picked up more points this season but said that’s the reason teams like Sheff Utd are at the top end of the table is they are more savvy seeing games out ( didn’t see MIllwall at home ) .
I think we need strike a balance between the 2 to be honest , I’ve always said you need variation in your game particularly in the tempo , if you look at the top sides they aren’t afraid to hit a long pass or move the ball quickly , but also they know how to slow it down & protect it & play to the break when required .
If we do go up it’ll be a steep learning curve as sides who’ve gone up the last few seasons have found , I think if you look at Bournemouth they probably went up playing a similar brand of football & have adapted I think we do make it up this season and obviouly there’d need to be signifcant recruitment we’d have more chance of staying there than under our last visit there ?

 

[hidesbehindapseudonym]

The question isn't whether or not were fragile at the back. The question is; are we more or less fragile since Villa?
We have been better at the back but we have been pretty solid all year. We have just sat back too early in a number of games where the opposition have scored in the last few mins. Villa 3, Rotherham, Millwall. My feeling is we have had to sit back because the forwards have struggled to maintain the momentum after 70 mins.


Not sure I agree: Getting trounced every week doesn't sound that fun to me!

 

[bladesince64]

It’s 50/50
Anything could happen
Every passing week is proving me right

Understood

 

[him behind you]

Not sure I agree: Getting trounced every week doesn't sound that fun to me![/QUOTE]

I don't think we would. We might get some but not many, and imo we'd get quite a few surprise results.

 

[PTBlade]

Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, including Sir Chris, but also by looking into this matter over the last 6 games and taking a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say.

 

[bladesince64]

We’re either gonna go up automatically or get in the playoffs and then it could go either way.

I’ve been predicting this for months.

 

[PokerBlade]

I'd certainly say games like WBA and Leeds we were largely constrained by better opposition. You still see in both those games that the goals came from defensive players getting high up the pitch to support attacks, so in that sense I think we're still trying to stick to our principles.

You also have to work in factors like fatigue at this stage of the season. Keeping up the high press, throwing bodies forward, all that gets harder and harder to do consistently.

I think Wilder's summed it up pretty well in saying that you have to be able to do it all. We score a couple from set pieces and suddenly that's our big threat, we keep a few clean sheets and suddenly we're a defensive line up. And if we didn't sometimes alter the tactics everyone would say "No plan B".

We're a damn good side and one of our biggest strengths is the lack of obvious weaknesses.