table starting to take shape?

[Ollessendro]

I know only 8 games have passed (so not even a fifth of the way through the season) but I was just looking at the table and think it is starting to take shape.

http://www.skysports.com/football/league/0,,11718,00.html

Notts County are looking dangerous and I expect them to stay there. I think MK Dons are the other strong candidate for automatic promotion. I expect Stevenage to stay in the top 6 and make the play offs and think that us and Swindon are top 6 teams. I am not sure about Tranmere. I think Moore is a good manager and has a good record at this level (particularly taking Rotherham up). They were in excellent form towards the end of last season, but I am not sure if they can sustain it. I think that Brentford, Carlisle and possibly Preston, Donny and Crawley might challenge for the play offs.

That top 6 is looking quite strong though and I expect those teams in there to be in there at the end (though not necessarily in that order ..... and hopefully not!)

 

[GAZBLADE]

Agreed. Tranmere have had a great start but id be amazed if it lasted once injuries and suspensions kick in(that's to say they get any!)
I honestly think with the size of our squad and the quality compared to pretty much all other teams i'd be very surprised if we didn't finish in a promotion place!!
UTB
COYRWW

 

[SwissBlade]

Early season is always a little disjointed and you get some interesting results as different teams are at different levels of fitness. And of course teams gel differently.

The top 8 is looking about right though, I don't think tranmere will drop out completely, but play offs most likely. but they're setting the standard so far. It'll be interesting to see how they get on once they start to play the stronger sides.

Notts county and Crawley look well placed as do Stevenage.

We're the big question mark as the fun and games is over, time to get down to business between now and Christmas.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Never pay a great deal of notice to the table until 20+ games have been completed.
Especially in these leagues, there is such a long way to go.

You just need to stay in contention, picking up results through the early months up until Christmas and don't worry about league position. Wins and draws are fine, keep picking them up, stay unbeaten for as long as possible, and come Jan we will be in a position to push on.
Its all obvious stuff but I think folk get carried away with where we are in the league with 30-40 games left.
It makes no sense to me.

 

[Blackheath Blade]

I`m not unduly worried by our start, in fact I think we've done well considering the loss of Lowton and Quinny and the new players that we've brought in. Still think we lack the width that Quinn brought to the team and his tracking back when we're defending. I also think that Wilson has yet to discover his best team but hopefully that'll not be long in coming.
Teams such as Tranmere, County, Stevenage and MK seem to have got into their stride already, whereas we seem to be stuttering along at the moment. However, we`re well placed in sixth, unbeaten so far and I have a good feeling that the best of United is yet to come.
As fans, we have to be patient and support the team and the manager through good and bad performances. The league isn't won in September and I firmly believe we'll be there or thereabouts next May.
I still see MK being our main rivals as the season develops.

 

[beightonblade]

Remember when we had the Chritmas party early ?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Teams can come out of nowhere.

Wednesday weren't in the top 8 this time last year.

 

[scouseblade]

I work with several Tranmere fans who are generally in a state of shock that they have started so well. They are however in agreement that once injuries and suspensions kick in they might start to struggle. They have only 17 players on their books (pros) and then its the kids.

As for the others - Notts County, MK Dons, Stevenage, Preston are looking good. Not sure about Crawley.

 

[s35blade]

id be very very surprised if tranmere were in the top six by the end of the season. I reckon the top six will be in order SUFC, Milton keynes, notts county, donny, swindon, preston

 

[Blade58]

I work with several Tranmere fans who are generally in a state of shock that they have started so well. They are however in agreement that once injuries and suspensions kick in they might start to struggle. They have only 17 players on their books (pros) and then its the kids.

As for the others - Notts County, MK Dons, Stevenage, Preston are looking good. Not sure about Crawley.

You haven't mentioned Swindon

I think once they've found their feet in this new division, they'll be up there.

They have as many points as we have from an indifferent start

 

[shorehamview]

I know only 8 games have passed (so not even a fifth of the way through the season) but I was just looking at the table and think it is starting to take shape.
......That top 6 is looking quite strong.....

Hang on Olle. The league table is starting to take shape? But doesn't the league table lie?

I belive the league table lies and that is well document.

You said it. The above quote is from November 6th 2011, if that helps to jog your memory. You can't argue that the table lies, and then give us a thread based on the league table without a certain amount of tongue in cheek, can you?

 

[SwissBlade]

Hang on Olle. The league table is starting to take shape? But doesn't the league table lie?



You said it. The above quote is from November 6th 2011, if that helps to jog your memory. You can't argue that the table lies, and then give us a thread based on the league table without a certain amount of tongue in cheek, can you?

Different season, different manager, different argument/ discussion that he is trying to put across.

And perhaps he is trying to show us that the table is taking shape for a big lie...

 

[boo radley]

Seems to me most are suggesting that this season will be more competitive than last. I always said the league would be more competitive this season.

 

[SwissBlade]

Seems to me most are suggesting that this season will be more competitive than last. I always said the league would be more competitive this season.

Or roughly translated, the good sides have got shitter

 

[Ollessendro]

Hang on Olle. The league table is starting to take shape? But doesn't the league table lie?



You said it. The above quote is from November 6th 2011, if that helps to jog your memory. You can't argue that the table lies, and then give us a thread based on the league table without a certain amount of tongue in cheek, can you?

Oh dear. Do we have to go through this again? This just suggests that you never got your head around in it the first place.

The league table is something we have to work with, regardless of whether you think it lies or not. I actually think it is pretty representative at the moment (as my opening post suggest). I also think it was pretty representative last season. Charlton, us and Wednesday were a lot better than eveyone else. Then Huddersfield, MK Dons and Stevenage were not far behind. Closely followed by Carlisle and County. The rest were all pretty rubbish, with a few teams being extra crap (Wycombe, Exter, Orient, Rochdale, Walsall, Bury Scunny etc).

People can say that the league table means nowt after 8 games (which is essentially true) however I firmly believe that at least 4 (probably 5) of that top 6 will make up the top 6 at the end of the season.

 

[Bladesway]

We win our games nothing else matters. Who is where and when doesn't make any difference if you keep winning. Its what the pigs did last season.

Don't care about Tranmere and who contenders are, just care about us winning as many games to get promoted.

Oh and fact, the league table NEVER lies. It tells you exactly how you have done in the games you have played. After playing everyone home and away it is the only thing that matters. You don't need to get your head around it, its just fact.

 

[broomhillblade]

Hang on Olle. The league table is starting to take shape? But doesn't the league table lie?



You said it. The above quote is from November 6th 2011, if that helps to jog your memory. You can't argue that the table lies, and then give us a thread based on the league table without a certain amount of tongue in cheek, can you?

Dear oh dear Shoreham. You save Ollie's quotes from last year?

How sad is that?

 

[VespaBlade]

Seems to me most are suggesting that this season will be more competitive than last. I always said the league would be more competitive this season.

I totally agree.
We are arguably not as strong. But there are no real teams out there that you would think will walk the league.
However, this time last year I didn't think that Charlton would walk it like they did.

As Bladesway says it's all about winning each and every game.
Some team in the bottom half will probably end up in the top 6, someone in the top 6 will probably end up in the bottom half.
We need the players to stick together and keep plugging away week in,week out.

As for the league table, It is a snapshot at a set of how a team is doing over a period of time.
Ollie is right it is taking shape, we just need to keep momentum and kick on like we did last year.

Personally I think we can get automatic. I also tip the other team to be Notts County.
I think both are certainties for the playoffs.
However time will tell.

 

[Ollessendro]

We win our games nothing else matters. Who is where and when doesn't make any difference if you keep winning. Its what the pigs did last season.

Don't care about Tranmere and who contenders are, just care about us winning as many games to get promoted.

Oh and fact, the league table NEVER lies. It tells you exactly how you have done in the games you have played. After playing everyone home and away it is the only thing that matters. You don't need to get your head around it, its just fact.

Your post started so well. However the last para is simply not true and writing things in capitals simply does not make it a more accurate point. Question Bladesway: Do you believe that after every game of football the result reflects exactly what the 2 teams deserve?

 

[mattbianco1]

Tranmere won't finish in the top 6.

Walsall won't finish in 7th.

Put Crawley, Preston, Carlisle or Doncaster in the top 6 instead of Tranmere and yes you may have the top 6. However, we will finish at least 3 places higher than we are.

Your post started so well. However the last para is simply not true and writing things in capitals simply does not make it a more accurate point. Question Bladesway: Do you believe that after every game of football the result reflects exactly what the 2 teams deserve?

Oh god!

We're not going to get back onto your mate's betting again are we?

The league table doesn't lie. Charlton won the league because they got more points than everybody else.

Sheff Wed finished 2nd because they got more points than us.

Sheff Wed are now 4th bottom because they actually aren't as good as "they" thought they were. Honeymoon period has gone

 

[mattbianco1]

The league table is something we have to work with, regardless of whether you think it lies or not.

We should contact the FA.

Get them to do a round robin with all the teams where we play each other at our own convenience. Not record the results then you can decide who should finish in the top 6

 

[SwissBlade]

Question Bladesway: Do you believe that after every game of football the result reflects exactly what the 2 teams deserve?

Swiss Answer - yes, because football results are all about goals scored. its actually in the laws of the game

 

[SwissBlade]

Tranmere won't finish in the top 6.

Put Crawley, Preston, Carlisle or Doncaster in the top 6 instead of Tranmere and yes you may have the top 6.

I'm not sure about Carlisle, I think Tranmere will finish above them if they keep their goal scorers/ keep them fit. Just looked at the top scorers, Cassidy (7) and Thorn (7) have scored 14 of their 19 goals.

 

[mattbianco1]

Swiss Answer - yes, because football results are all about goals scored. its actually in the laws of the game

I know what Olle is trying to say. But you can't base a theory around it and say that team A shouldn't go up because team B would've won "that" game.

Ollessendro - It evens itself out over the season.

We would've won at Scunthorpe had we had 11 men but it won't matter as we will beat somebody this season that we shouldn't have beaten. Bury should've beaten us but we got a draw somehow.

Look at the Premiership season.

We would've stayed up if ANY of the following hadn't happened:

Blackburn H - 2 missed penalties.
Liverpool H - Steven Gerrard/Rob Styles
Newcastle H - Kenny thinking he's faster than Obafemi Martins
Everton H - Kenny picking a fight with Andy Johnson in the box
Wigan H - Jagielka thinking he was still in goal
Blackburn A - Kenny watching Pedersen's free kick. There was only 1 place he was putting it. All behind the goal knew but somehow kenny didn't.
Man Utd A - penalty decisions turned down
West Ham A - Disallowed goal
Aston Villa A - 4-5-1 formation (conceding shedloads)

West Ham v Blackburn - WHU got a goal that shouldn't have been allowed.

Have I missed any?

Still, I bet Charlton and Watford fans think the world is against them too

 

[Kenilworth]

I thought for a moment that Olle had finished the Shed and was looking for a new woodwork project to occupy those long, lonely nights in and around that Southern Metropolis.

 

[boo radley]

I know what Olle is trying to say. But you can't base a theory around it and say that team A shouldn't go up because team B would've won "that" game.

Ollessendro - It evens itself out over the season.

We would've won at Scunthorpe had we had 11 men but it won't matter as we will beat somebody this season that we shouldn't have beaten. Bury should've beaten us but we got a draw somehow.

Look at the Premiership season.

We would've stayed up if ANY of the following hadn't happened:

Blackburn H - 2 missed penalties.
Liverpool H - Steven Gerrard/Rob Styles
Newcastle H - Kenny thinking he's faster than Obafemi Martins
Everton H - Kenny picking a fight with Andy Johnson in the box
Wigan H - Jagielka thinking he was still in goal
Blackburn A - Kenny watching Pedersen's free kick. There was only 1 place he was putting it. All behind the goal knew but somehow kenny didn't.
Man Utd A - penalty decisions turned down
West Ham A - Disallowed goal
Aston Villa A - 4-5-1 formation (conceding shedloads)

West Ham v Blackburn - WHU got a goal that shouldn't have been allowed.

Have I missed any?

Still, I bet Charlton and Watford fans think the world is against them too

Sorry, I'm just a little confused? Are you saying things even out over a season? the last part of your post seems to prove that wet spam got all the breaks and us non in the prem. (i agree with that).
You may have missed a couple.
Bromby not getting a pen in the same circumstance as Gerrard.
Man U not having anything to play for in their last game, otherwise they would have won.

 

[moDtheGod]

It evens itself out over the season.

Diagree. It evens out over an infinite time period, yes. But "the season" is not infinite. Teams can be very lucky/unlucky for more than a season and punch above/below their weight as a consequence.

 

[Revolution]

Things do not "even themselves out over a season". Random chance is random chance.

 

[Ollessendro]

Things do not "even themselves out over a season". Random chance is random chance.

Things do not even themselves out over and season this is where Matt Bianco's argument falls down. It is quite funny that the example he chooses perfectly illustrates that we were very lucky to go down from the Premiership. The league table did in fact lie that year, as we had no luck whatsoever and West Ham got all the luck. Last season Wednesday were lucky to pip us to 2nd (they got some very flukey results, we had our start striker sent down etc) and therefore the league table lied then (we should have finished 2nd). Random chance chose Ched Evans trial to be with 3 games to go. A week later and we would probably have already been promoted.

It is perfectly feasible that a team can be very unlucky all season (or longer). It would only even itself out if they played infinitely. A team could have 80% possession, goals disallowed, hit the woodwork, other keeper plays a blinder and thoroughly deserve to win the game and yet lose. This could happen to them 4 or 5 times and there is nothing to say that it will go for them (that is the same thing happen to other teams).

I am not saying that there is a better way of doing things than the league table. I am just saying it contains randomness.

I am guessing we will not be able to take this back to talking about the current league table and whther it is likely to stay like this?

 

[moDtheGod]

The table after so few games is actually a perfect example of why "the league table doesn't lie" is utter nonsense. What the league table is at this stage of the season, is just "the form table". In other words, who currently has the highest morale, the best balance in the squad and has benefited most from recent lucky breaks, poor officials and games against weaker/out of form teams. If the league table didn't lie, it would be the same now as in 46 games. Of course it lies, because it shows teams in false positions.

The only time you can realistically try and push the argument is when the season is over, but as we've already said, 46 games is not a large enough sample to have completely eradicated variance. You'd need to play an infinitely long season in order to totally remove it.