SUFC V SWFC crowds by history.....

[Deadbat]

....yes I know it is dull and in many respects means nothing but a friend sent me some interesting stats on crowd averages for SUFC V SWFC since 1892-93 (since crowds were properly recorded).

I think most suspected rightly that Weds have pulled in slightly bigger crowds over history although both had peaks and troughs.

For those that are interested (sure Darren and co will pull me up on any mistakes ):

Full history prior to this season (obviously excludes some of opening seasons - more for Weds who started some years before us but crowds not recorded properly)

Totals

United's average from 1892-93 to 2013-14 is : 18,818
Wednesday average fro 1892-93 to 2013-14 is : 20,908

Post Second World War

United's average from 1946-47 to 2013-14 is : 20,534
Wednesday's average from 1946-47 to 2013-14 is : 24,295


United facts

Highest average post War - 35,094 (1947-48) - first season completed after WW2
Highest average in last 20 years - 30,512 (2006-07) - last season in Premier League

Lowest average post War - 9,992 (1986-87)
Lowest average in last 20 years - 9,992 (1986-87)

Note: Utd have spent 60 years in top division, 42 in second tier and 8 in third tier, 1 in bottom division


Wednesday facts

Highest average post War - 42,634 (1952-53)
Highest average in last 20 years - 29,560 (1991-92)

Lowest average post War - 10,860 (1978-79)
Lowest average in last 20 years - 17,821 (2010-11)

Note: Weds have spent 66 years in top division, 36 in second tier and 9 in third tier, 0 in bottom division

 

[BeatleBlade]

Our lowest in the last 20 years cannot be 86-87 as that was 28 years ago. Interesting figures, Wednesday evidently aren't that massive either.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Wednesday evidently aren't that massive either.

They never have been - their supporters are just massive big heads for no good reason.

 

[Deadbat]

You are right; error on my part - should say last 30 years

 

[BeatleBlade]

You are right; error on my part - should say last 30 years

Over the last 20 years though our lowest has been 12.9k in 1995-1996. I don't quite know why it was that bad that year as I didn't follow football back then and I don't understand how we can rake in 18-20k this year despite being a tier lower than we were. 1999-2000 fear that if things don't improve soon we will fall back to those levels in a few years.

 

[FTPE]

United in general went to shit the year after I was born(86) awesome, so happy for you guys who got to see us in the 70s.... Along with all the good bands!

 

[groveblade]

Interesting that both clubs are so level - both in terms of attendances and which level they've been playing at throughout history..... would like to see comparative stats for other city rivals and see how they match up...

 

[Canterbury Blade]

Ah... But as someone keeps reminding me it isn't the size that matters, it's what you do that counts.

And on that count a few additional snorting, grunting, whining pigs is a drop in the bacon ocean...

A few extra trotters through the turnstile down at the sty, so what?. Means nowt to me.....

FTP

 

[metalblade]

We will always be at a disadvantage in crowd counting as the sty holds more than the lane so one or two big crowds can bump up the average of a season where support for the pigs as been poor, due to capacity and segregation issues we will never get much more than 31,000 in whereas they can put 38000+ in the rust bucket.

 

[Bladesman]

Ah... But as someone keeps reminding me it isn't the size that matters, it's what you do that counts.

And on that count a few additional snorting, grunting, whining pigs is a drop in the bacon ocean...

A few extra trotters through the turnstile down at the sty, so what?. Means nowt to me.....

FTP

Exactly! Newcastle get over 50,000 fans through their gates but it does not mean your club wins trophies and league titles.

Being MASSIVE means bugger all but it makes Wednesday fans like Jon McClure feel better about themselves while they plod along dodging administration.

 

[Deadbat]

To be honest there was not as much in it as I had thought. Pre War there is little difference

They then had some big crowds in the 1950's getting 35,000-40,000 for a few seasons. We were up in early 30's too.

Around the 1970's we had bigger crowds by some margin and it culminated when the season we got 33,189 in 1971-72 they got half our crowd (17,000) and were comfortably down on us until the late 70's. This was I suppose our golden period in terms of play and crowds.

Then as we nosedived the divisions from the late 70's and into early 1980's till late 1990's they had better crowds and quite comfortably. For instance when we got the average of less than 10,000 in the mid 80's they got 23,000 and were routinely getting 15,000 more for quite a few seasons which is a huge difference. These were days when they were near top under Wilkinson and we had the dark days of end of Porterfield and McEwan. For the 90's they still had better crowds including getting bigger crowds in Div 2 when we were in Div 1 (top division) in 1990-91. When they went up they had surprisingly much better crowds getting 7,000 average more for the 3 seasons between 1991-1994.

From the mid 2000's; we overtook them and had 4 or 5 seasons where we had better crowds but last 2 or 3 season they have gone up ad overtook out crowds again. Still remarkable what we get at this level and think if they had stayed for coming on for 5 years at this level their crowds would not have remained as high.

It is interesting though as for all the talk about how big they are and the crowds they get; there is not much in it really and this idea over what big crowds they would get is a myth as they have not averaged over 30,000 since way back in the 60's.

 

[Deadbat]

We will always be at a disadvantage in crowd counting as the sty holds more than the lane so one or two big crowds can bump up the average of a season where support for the pigs as been poor, due to capacity and segregation issues we will never get much more than 31,000 in whereas they can put 38000+ in the rust bucket.

Not sure that is true. I think if our ground held 50,000 we would struggle to get more than 30,000 tops. I think the fact that only 17,000 Blades came to watch a cup QF kind of puts paid to that. Still Wednesday can bring out those glory hunters for one games (nearly 40,000 v Wycombe) and then then disappear but sadly I think for a one off match they will always have the potential for those big crowds and to fll their stadium more than us as they have more floating / part time fans. We have a better hard core I feel. I think Weds do have an excellent hard core of 4-5,000 that go away (even better than ours in terms of numbers and routinely sell out all over the country) and can take big numbers even to far away places but again unsure they would have kept same level of loyality our fans have since we have stayed down here. I remember the game at Bury the other year where we took 5,000 ish and filled 3 sides.

I think both clubs have a remarkable following considering complete lack of success and mismanagement us more than them.

 

[Silent Blade]

Highest average post War - 35,094 (1947-48) - first season completed after WW2

1946-47 was the first completed season after WW2

 

[Deadbat]

1946-47 was the first completed season after WW2

You might be right. It was 1946 anyway

Did we not win the league in 1945-46? Not many people know that. Granted it was only the Northern section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945–46_in_English_football

 

[grafikhaus]

Being in the Championship means teams like Wolves, Millers, Leeds, Derby, Middlesborough etc. etc. will bring around 4k.

Must admit, the trends in football baffle me. Some of the crowds in the latter stages of the Triple Assault season (2002-3) were much lower than we're getting now.

I remember going to Old Trafford for Bobby Charlton's last game (Easter Monday 1971). United won and the crowd was a then-massive 58,000. On the same day, the pigs were at home to Carlisle and got 8k.

Also remember standing on the kop at home to Arsenal in the First Division (top tier) 1968 and the crowd was 13k.

 

[metalblade]

Not sure that is true. I think if our ground held 50,000 we would struggle to get more than 30,000 tops. I think the fact that only 17,000 Blades came to watch a cup QF kind of puts paid to that.

I can't agree Db the last time we were in the Premiership 2006-7 we averaged as you say over 30,000 with most attendances very close to the 30,000 mark and that is with only the lower tier of the Bramall lane end given to away fans, I seem to remember we had to get special permission to give away teams only 2,400 (less than the minimum 10% required under Premiership rules) are you really saying that if we had a larger capacity and we were able to sell more to away teams and sell more to our own fans rather than offer restricted view seats when 30,000 mark was hit that when the likes of the Manchester teams came to visit we would not have easily sold 40,000 ?

 

[wizadry]

Not sure that is true. I think if our ground held 50,000 we would struggle to get more than 30,000 tops. I think the fact that only 17,000 Blades came to watch a cup QF kind of puts paid to that. Still Wednesday can bring out those glory hunters for one games (nearly 40,000 v Wycombe) and then then disappear but sadly I think for a one off match they will always have the potential for those big crowds and to fll their stadium more than us as they have more floating / part time fans. We have a better hard core I feel. I think Weds do have an excellent hard core of 4-5,000 that go away (even better than ours in terms of numbers and routinely sell out all over the country) and can take big numbers even to far away places but again unsure they would have kept same level of loyality our fans have since we have stayed down here. I remember the game at Bury the other year where we took 5,000 ish and filled 3 sides.

I think both clubs have a remarkable following considering complete lack of success and mismanagement us more than them.

Don't talk about cup quarter finals like we get fuck all.Incase you forgot we got 30,048 with sections of the ground cut off against Charlton at 12.00 on a Sunday afternoon,now no disrespect to Southampton but they were in our league not so long ago and it wasn't as bigger attraction as some made out,albeit i looked forward to it and went to the game,but the point i'm getting at is that if we played a bigger side than Charlton with a bigger capacity we could get a very decent crowd indeed,ESPECIALLY in a one off game,no doubt about it imo.

 

[COME BACK CHED]

Can we not count the cricket attendances in with this , after all the pigs used to count all the thousands of free tickets given to Middlewood hospital asylum patients at the time .

 

[yorkshirecoast]

Clearly both clubs have big and loyal support. There is no doubt the pigs' average benefits from a larger ground and in particular a bigger away end (the fact it is a rusting sh!t-hole is besides the point). I've always thought we have the more loyal and fanatical support though. And I doubt the pigs would be getting our current level of support after 5 seasons in L1.

 

[judge]

The two Sheffield clubs fans arguing about who is bigger is like two tramps arguing about who stinks less of piss

 

[Grappler]

While there will be some Owls fans living in S2 territory and Blades fans living in S6, if you look at a traditional "catchment area", where you can draw support from, then SWFC have a much bigger one. If we move south we bump into Chesterfield, east takes us to Rotherham, west is the pennines and north hits Hillsborough, that would be our traditional catchement area. SWFC hit us south, they hit Rotherham east, pennines west, but the north is huge for them, all the way to Huddersfield north west and Barnsley north east. While it is not impossible for people from, say, Penistone, to drive all the way past Hillsborough to come and support United, I think it is mainly unlikely.

I think many on here will remember an incident where six or seven Owls fans were arrested for causing trouble on a train (travelling from York, or somewhere like that), and they were all from Wombwell, Hoyland, etc.

Given our relatively small catchment area, we do very well.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

While there will be some Owls fans living in S2 territory and Blades fans living in S6, if you look at a traditional "catchment area", where you can draw support from, then SWFC have a much bigger one. If we move south we bump into Chesterfield, east takes us to Rotherham, west is the pennines and north hits Hillsborough, that would be our traditional catchement area. SWFC hit us south, they hit Rotherham east, pennines west, but the north is huge for them, all the way to Huddersfield north west and Barnsley north east. While it is not impossible for people from, say, Penistone, to drive all the way past Hillsborough to come and support United, I think it is mainly unlikely.

I think many on here will remember an incident where six or seven Owls fans were arrested for causing trouble on a train (travelling from York, or somewhere like that), and they were all from Wombwell, Hoyland, etc.

Given our relatively small catchment area, we do very well.

I'd love both clubs to release postcode areas of fans on the data base. My opinion would be that the vast majority of blades actually came from sheffield and a huge proportion of theirs came from the surrounding areas. It'd certainly make for interesting reading.

 

[judge]

They do have a lot of fans from some of the pit villages around Sheffield donny and Barnsley

 

[Deadbat]

I'd love both clubs to release postcode areas of fans on the data base. My opinion would be that the vast majority of blades actually came from sheffield and a huge proportion of theirs came from the surrounding areas. It'd certainly make for interesting reading.

I do agree with that. Many Weds fans I have encountered over years come from places such as Swinton, Wath and going out to surburbs of Barnsley, Rotherham and Chesterfield. A lot from Grenoside, Chapeltown, High Green, Eccelsefield but many more from further out of Sheffield too. Of course they have fans from the central areas of Sheffield but I would wager that there is a lot more Blades from Sheffield and its immediate surrounding areas. Always surprised me when I worked up near Shirecliffe/Pitsmoor/Firth Park how many Blades came from there when they are in theory close to Hillsborough. I live in S8 and always surprised when I see any Weds apparel as it is a very strong Blades hold. I believe Gleadless, Handsworth, Manor, Woodseats, Heeley, Norton are all quite big Blades strongholds actually.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

They do have a lot of fans from some of the pit villages around Sheffield donny and Barnsley

That's why we're Sheffield's club.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

I do agree with that. Many Weds fans I have encountered over years come from places such as Swinton, Wath and going out to surburbs of Barnsley, Rotherham and Chesterfield. A lot from Grenoside, Chapeltown, High Green, Eccelsefield but many more from further out of Sheffield too. Of course they have fans from the central areas of Sheffield but I would wager that there is a lot more Blades from Sheffield and its immediate surrounding areas. Always surprised me when I worked up near Shirecliffe/Pitsmoor/Firth Park how many Blades came from there when they are in theory close to Hillsborough. I live in S8 and always surprised when I see any Weds apparel as it is a very strong Blades hold. I believe Gleadless, Handsworth, Manor, Woodseats, Heeley, Norton are all quite big Blades strongholds actually.

I'd agree with those areas you've mentioned being strong Blade areas. I live in Gleadless and work in and around this side of the city and whilst there is some Owls, the vast majority are Blades, there's no doubt about it.

 

[Grappler]

I do agree with that. Many Weds fans I have encountered over years come from places such as Swinton, Wath and going out to surburbs of Barnsley, Rotherham and Chesterfield. A lot from Grenoside, Chapeltown, High Green, Eccelsefield but many more from further out of Sheffield too. Of course they have fans from the central areas of Sheffield but I would wager that there is a lot more Blades from Sheffield and its immediate surrounding areas. Always surprised me when I worked up near Shirecliffe/Pitsmoor/Firth Park how many Blades came from there when they are in theory close to Hillsborough. I live in S8 and always surprised when I see any Weds apparel as it is a very strong Blades hold. I believe Gleadless, Handsworth, Manor, Woodseats, Heeley, Norton are all quite big Blades strongholds actually.

Agreed on the areas, I grew up on Gleadless Valley, and while it was not exclusively Blades, the vast majority were.

 

[Silent Blade]

There are much more Blades fans than Wendy fans living in Dronfield and Chesterfield

 

[wizadry]

There are much more Blades fans than Wendy fans living in Dronfield and Chesterfield

There are more Blades and pigs fans in Chesterfield than there are Chezzie fans

 

[Deadbat]

There are much more Blades fans than Wendy fans living in Dronfield and Chesterfield

Interesting you say that. I work in Chesterfield some off the time and have quite a few friends there and would say it would be quite close. There are a lot of Weds fans in this area which surprised me. I would certainly not say there are much more in these areas from time I have spent there/people I have spoken to.

A lot of Weds fans from Barnsley, Rotherham and Doncaster. Surprising when you go to such place how many shirts you see.