SUFC - a sacking club?

[Alfreton14Blade]

Interesting to see how things have developed at one of the other SUFCs - Scunthorpe - since Nige Adkins's departure for Southampton early in the 2010/11 season. They've had 5 permanent managers since then, with current interim duo Tony Daws & Andy Dawson forming their sixth managerial team since Adkins left.

2010/11. Ian Baraclough appointed & later sacked. Alan Knill appointed. Relegation to Division Three.
2011/12. Stability, 18th in Division Three.
2012/13. Knill sacked. Brian Laws appointed. Relegation to Division Four.
2013/14. Laws sacked. Russ Wilcox appointed. Promotion to Divison Three.
2014/15. Wilcox sacked. Mark Robins appointed. Ended up 16th in Division Three.
2015/16. Robins sacked. Current position, as things stand: 11th in Division Three (one place above another, more celebrated, SUFC).

Worth bearing in mind that, when Adkins left, Scunny were riding high in the Championship, having spent by far the majority of their life since the mid-60s in Division Four . Given that, since he left, they've only spent the one season in Division Four, they might be seen as a club that's responded to events proactively (&, relatively speaking, succeeded), rather than as some sort of basket case.

Maybe sacking managers who don't succeed (within the parameters of expectation of the club concerned) is just something that football clubs do, in order to try to avoid further failure or to kick-start success in line with expectations?

And maybe we're just too sensitive about being seen as a footballing basket case as measured by number of managers in & out, at a time when, measured by other criteria that matter far more, we're cementing our place as a bona fide basket case?

 

[Dkc]

For most clubs, sacking a manager sometimes works, and sometimes it doesn't.

For us, however, sacking a manager never works, and usually makes us get shitter.

 

[JohnDenver]

For us, however, sacking a manager never works, and usually makes us get shitter.

We had to appoint Bryan Robson just to get one sacking to succeed.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

For most clubs, sacking a manager sometimes works, and sometimes it doesn't.

For us, however, sacking a manager never works, and usually makes us get shitter.

I think we get too hung up on it. Maybe it's best to keep trying until you find one who's a decent fit, rather than thinking there's some magic formula based on a manager's previous success.

Piggy Laws, based on his previous success at Scunny, should have been a roaring success when he returned there in 2012/13; he ended up taking them back down to Division Four.
Similarly, whatever his previous success, Adkins has been dreadful here (regardless of what other factors are in play).

 

[Creepy]

For most clubs, sacking a manager sometimes works, and sometimes it doesn't.

What happens to the other clubs then?

 

[blade.i.am]

For most clubs, sacking a manager sometimes works, and sometimes it doesn't.

For us, however, sacking a manager never works, and usually makes us get shitter.

Weir being a notable exception

 

[Gordon cowans]

I believe its largely down to timing,a certain man may be the right man but at the wrong time if u catch my drift

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Just after tea and biscuits (bourbons and jammy dodgers) the Board go for Investors in People accreditation and play "Sack the Manager".

 

[Benny and the Blades]

For most clubs, sacking a manager sometimes works, and sometimes it doesn't.

For us, however, sacking a manager never works, and usually makes us get shitter.

For us that happens if we sack the manager or not !!!!!

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Just after tea and biscuits (bourbons and jammy dodgers) the Board go for Investors in People accreditation and play "Sack the Manager".

View attachment 16415

Ah! - so that's where the Murphy money's gone

 

[1danewhitehouse]

For most clubs, sacking a manager sometimes works, and sometimes it doesn't.

For us, however, sacking a manager never works, and usually makes us get shitter.

Not true. Sacking Heath, Robson and Weir improved us significantly and despite my affection for Bassett, replacing him with Kendall also improved us.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I think we get too hung up on it. Maybe it's best to keep trying until you find one who's a decent fit, rather than thinking there's some magic formula based on a manager's previous success.

Piggy Laws, based on his previous success at Scunny, should have been a roaring success when he returned there in 2012/13; he ended up taking them back down to Division Four.
Similarly, whatever his previous success, Adkins has been dreadful here (regardless of what other factors are in play).

If we were going to keep chucking money at every manager we appoint to let him bring his own players in and bin the old ones off, I’d agree. But we’re not. We’re not going to financially dominate even at this level. Small clubs at this level who tend to do well don’t seem to do it by changing manager every five minutes. They do it by letting a manager build over a period of time adding a bit more quality to his squad here and there and finally one season refusing to sell the best of that squad (Wallsall, MK Dons, Preston, Brentford spring to mind. Bradford seem to be getting a bit closer gradually and sticking with the manager). Some managers can’t come in and hit the ground running with a certain bunch of players. That’s been the case for Adkins here. But over time, a good manager should be able to assemble a squad to play in line with his ethos successfully.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I believe its largely down to timing,a certain man may be the right man but at the wrong time if u catch my drift

Sacking managers after letting them do the retained list or 2 games into the new season doesn’t help either.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Give em all one season contract with promise of extension if they move the team forward.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

If we were going to keep chucking money at every manager we appoint to let him bring his own players in and bin the old ones off, I’d agree. But we’re not. We’re not going to financially dominate even at this level. Small clubs at this level who tend to do well don’t seem to do it by changing manager every five minutes. They do it by letting a manager build over a period of time adding a bit more quality to his squad here and there and finally one season refusing to sell the best of that squad (Wallsall, MK Dons, Preston, Brentford spring to mind. Bradford seem to be getting a bit closer gradually and sticking with the manager). Some managers can’t come in and hit the ground running with a certain bunch of players. That’s been the case for Adkins here. But over time, a good manager should be able to assemble a squad to play in line with his ethos successfully.

Just seen what you'd had to say about Barnsley's rebuild with young, exciting players on another thread, Dane. And it made me think: what if we had have stuck with Weir (the most imaginative appointment of all over recent years) when we were in the shit just like Barnsley did with Johnson when relegation was staring them in the face?

I know we've all written Weir off as an appalling appointment, but that's exactly what Dingles fans were saying about Lee Johnson round about the time of the 1-1 draw back in November. And look at them now.

The one thing that Adkins has said over recent weeks that's resonated with me is the "we need to accept we are where we are; we're a league one club whatever our size" mantra. All our managerial appointments & the associated approach of the managers involved (except in Weir's case) was with a "quick fix" in mind. It hasn't worked. Indeed, it's led to us being where we are now: about to end up with the third worst season in Sheffield United's history.

If I'm honest, I'd like to see acceptance & admittance of that failure at boardroom level, for Adkins to be sacked (as he's not the man to rebuild the club in the way it needs doing, & he's failed badly in his remit), & for a young, bright manager to be appointed & given time to build a side in his own image.

But, whatever happens, I can't see us getting out of this division in the near future. Well, not in an upwards direction anyway.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Just seen what you'd had to say about Barnsley's rebuild with young, exciting players on another thread, Dane. And it made me think: what if we had have stuck with Weir (the most imaginative appointment of all over recent years) when we were in the shit just like Barnsley did with Johnson when relegation was staring them in the face?

I know we've all written Weir off as an appalling appointment, but that's exactly what Dingles fans were saying about Lee Johnson round about the time of the 1-1 draw back in November. And look at them now.

The one thing that Adkins has said over recent weeks that's resonated with me is the "we need to accept we are where we are; we're a league one club whatever our size" mantra. All our managerial appointments & the associated approach of the managers involved (except in Weir's case) was with a "quick fix" in mind. It hasn't worked. Indeed, it's led to us being where we are now: about to end up with the third worst season in Sheffield United's history.

If I'm honest, I'd like to see acceptance & admittance of that failure at boardroom level, for Adkins to be sacked (as he's not the man to rebuild the club in the way it needs doing, & he's failed badly in his remit), & for a young, bright manager to be appointed & given time to build a side in his own image.

But, whatever happens, I can't see us getting out of this division in the near future. Well, not in an upwards direction anyway.

It's a tough call to say we should have kept Weir as relegation was looking nailed on. Would he have turned it round? I don't know. Would he have coped with the sale of Maguire the following summer? I don't know. Can any manager be successful with his best player sold from under him every summer and the axe hanging over his head every spring?

 

[Bladesway]

Give em all one season contract with promise of extension if they move the team forward.

Then no one will sign for you. Great plan.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

It's a tough call to say we should have kept Weir as relegation was looking nailed on. Would he have turned it round? I don't know. Would he have coped with the sale of Maguire the following summer? I don't know. Can any manager be successful with his best player sold from under him every summer and the axe hanging over his head every spring?

As I say, I'm now of the opinion "we're a[n established] third division club; we need to acknowledge where we are" - we need to rebuild, & the manager needs to be given time to do it.

Is Adkins the man? I don't think so, personally.
Did Weir have the character to cope with adversity (in the way that Johnson did at Barnsley)? Probably not. But that's one of the major considerations in getting it right with a manager for a club of this size in this disastrous historical rut.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

As I say, I'm now of the opinion "we're a[n established] third division club; we need to acknowledge where we are" - we need to rebuild, & the manager needs to be given time to do it.

Is Adkins the man? I don't think so, personally.
Did Weir have the character to cope with adversity (in the way that Johnson did at Barnsley)? Probably not. But that's one of the major considerations in getting it right with a manager for a club of this size in this disastrous historical rut.

I disagree about Adkins. Well, at least I think it's too soon to tell. I think any manager who has achieved something in the game and is not in danger of taking us down deserves the chance to build his own team. Kind of the same line of thinking as you have but I believe in trying it with the current incumbent.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

I disagree about Adkins. Well, at least I think it's too soon to tell. I think any manager who has achieved something in the game and is not in danger of taking us down deserves the chance to build his own team. Kind of the same line of thinking as you have but I believe in trying it with the current incumbent.

Appreciate your point, & can't say that I'm rabid about seeing him sacked. Just that I've lost faith in him, based on what he's done & said (after, admittedly, having been delighted with his appointment). Would love that faith to be renewed.

In all honesty though, I don't think Adkins "deserves" anything after the utter horlicks he's made of things this season.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Then no one will sign for you. Great plan.

Who said it was a plan?

 

[CarlMcBlade]

What length of contract has Adkins signed?

 

[I should coco]

what if we had have stuck with Weir (the most imaginative appointment of all over recent years) when we were in the shit just like Barnsley did with Johnson when relegation was staring them in the face?

We'd have been down by Xmas. Weir would have gone back to coach Everton Girls Under 5's and we would be moaning about being mid table in the fourth division and 'when will we get out of this crappy league'.

It's the Bladesway.....

ISC

 

[blade too long]

worked for both wednesday and huddersfield sacking managers with not long to go
we should try it

the average tenure of a league manager is 15 months at present ,

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...erial-reigns-in-football-9779174.html#gallery

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Appreciate your point, & can't say that I'm rabid about seeing him sacked. Just that I've lost faith in him, based on what he's done & said (after, admittedly, having been delighted with his appointment). Would love that faith to be renewed.

In all honesty though, I don't think Adkins "deserves" anything after the utter horlicks he's made of things this season.

Deserves might be the wrong word. But I think it’s in the club’s interests to persevere with a manager who has a track record and isn’t in danger of taking us down as on the balance of probabilities, I think he’s more likely to move us forward sooner than if we replace him and pull another manager off the merry-go-round.