Style of football

[sheffielder]

Or Huddersfield, or Wednesday, or Doncaster (despite all your assurances otherwise) this year. All "hoofed" their way past us - now they're playing Leeds next year, we're playing Rotherham.

If only we'd move on, eh?

UTB

Depends if you want to celebrate being mediocre like the pigs. Bully for you if your one of those, however if you bring in/through talented lads you can build a team round then you become a Norwich or Southampton who can cope with football in the division above and get promoted again. There isn't the money in football anymore for teams to buy their way into the premiership unless you have parachute money so you have to build within. I am sorry for the hoofball brigade but as Dronnie Blade said, football has moved on.

I have always stated on here that I would be happy not to go up this year to blood some youngsters. Long has been a success and hopefully McFadzean can built on a promising start. If we get a decent manager who can build round the good players we have left then we can move on. We can ditch the older players we have who have fuck all good experience between them to make a difference, as proven this season.

I didn't see any team get out of this division by signing a bunch of overpaid, overage prats. Charlton, Sheff Wed, Huddersfield, Brighton, Southampton, Norwich etc;

Of course we could just continue signing players like Kitson etc; and playing crap football till the nail is firmly in the coffin of our club.

 

[sheffielder]

post: 500060, member: 875"]Exactly. Remember a less talented Wednesday side beating us 1-0 at Hillsborough in what turned out to be a pivotal result with a side of lesser players but they played a direct, harrying game and we had no answer to it.

They had pace, that was the difference between them and us. We had 4-4-fucking 2 and no other backup plan last year and this.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

The 90 points the season before last was more to do with Ched and playing attacking football than it was to do with playing a passing game. Personally I don't like Stoke's over reliance on set pieces - but equally I don't like the constant passing sideways and backwards that we saw in the season just gone. Attacking football - with pace, power and athleticism is what I want to see. But winning is what really matters.

 

[Gavlar]

Exactly and Charlton also struggled for a fair bit of the season. Although I assume they probably spent most of their matches time wasting which probably saw them safe.

The passing game works if you are hoping to move on from the Championship that is for sure.

they finished 9th, only few points off the playoffs tho

 

[Gavlar]

Yes, it can, but the problem is that we are a big club in this division with big crowds and big epectations. Teams come to the Lane and play tight hoping to unsettle the Blades fans. It is easier for smaller clubs with crowds not as big as us to play passing football at home because teams come to their ground playing for a win. It can be a psychological thing

i'm not sure I get you. its easier for teams with smaller crowds to play passing football at home? what difference does that make? I agree football is psychological, but I don't think it has anything to do with style of play. how do the top European clubs like Barcelona, manu, real Madrid, Bayern etc pass the ball around with thousands of fans?

 

[alcoblade]

Depends if you want to celebrate being mediocre like the pigs. Bully for you if your one of those, however if you bring in/through talented lads you can build a team round then you become a Norwich or Southampton who can cope with football in the division above and get promoted again. There isn't the money in football anymore for teams to buy their way into the premiership unless you have parachute money so you have to build within. I am sorry for the hoofball brigade but as Dronnie Blade said, football has moved on.

I have always stated on here that I would be happy not to go up this year to blood some youngsters. Long has been a success and hopefully McFadzean can built on a promising start. If we get a decent manager who can build round the good players we have left then we can move on. We can ditch the older players we have who have fuck all good experience between them to make a difference, as proven this season.

I didn't see any team get out of this division by signing a bunch of overpaid, overage prats. Charlton, Sheff Wed, Huddersfield, Brighton, Southampton, Norwich etc;

Of course we could just continue signing players like Kitson etc; and playing crap football till the nail is firmly in the coffin of our club.

I want to get out of fucking third division, nothing more. Once the club has got of it's arse, we can start to apply more stringent specs to where we want to be - right now I think its fanciful and the reality of where we are and where we might end up hasn't sunk in with some yet.

I'm not calling for direct, or sideways, or anything (other than not the soulless crp that we've been served up this year). I'm saying get the best players available given the shit that's on offer, then play to their strengths. If we were offered Crouch and Carol on loan, should we turn them down? Should we then concentrate on getting the ball into their feet?

We're shit, skint and going nowhere. There's a time for being picky about what we want to see. It's not now.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

The 90 points the season before last was more to do with Ched and playing attacking football than it was to do with playing a passing game. Personally I don't like Stoke's over reliance on set pieces - but equally I don't like the constant passing sideways and backwards that we saw in the season just gone. Attacking football - with pace, power and athleticism is what I want to see. But winning is what really matters.

And that's just a vote for common sense.

UTB

 

[Silent Blade]

A bit later, in 1995/96, we played Derby at home, lining up like this (if I remember correctly):

Kelly
Davison Foran Tuttle Nilsen
Hawes Holland Hodges Whitehouse
Flo Blake

There was some talent in that line up, but the performance was rubbish. We may have been trying to play a bit more, but the fighting spirit, confidence and belief was gone and we just generally looked clueless.

That match was live on tv in Norway and is one of my worst Blades memories.

I remember the start of the 2nd half well. We kicked off, passed back to Nilsen who tried to pass it to Kelly but Gabbiandini (who always scored against us) raced to collect the poor pass back and fire in the 2nd goal. Took about 5 seconds after the re start! Really embarrassing!

 

[Deleted member 875]

Ross Davidson, Mark Foran, Steve Hawes, Paul Holland.

Think the clues why we started off 95/96 in relegation form are there somewhere

 

[Silent Blade]

When was the last time a hoofball team won anything?

This thread is about on about the best way in getting out of this tinpot division rather than looking for winning a trophy (might not happen in our lifetime!). Yes, there have been longball teams that have won trophies. Stan Cullis was very interested in Charles Reep's analysis (look him up in google). Reep stated that from watching a variety of matches in soccer and concluded most goals were scored from fewer than three passes: therefore he concluded it was important to get the ball quickly forward as soon as possible.The quicker the ball was played to goal with the least number of passes the more goals would be scored. His theory became known as the long ball. For three successive seasons Wolves scored over 100 league goals every season, won the league in 1958, 1959 and came second in 1960. Then in 1961 Spurs won the double with the style football you like to watch (I do like watching the style of football like Brazil did in 1960). But in 1962 Ipswich won the league with a "wingless" formation which became more used so "hoofball" was "out of fashion". Graham Taylor was probably the next manager to make the long ball game a real success. He got Lincoln to score 111 league goals in 1975-76 and went to Watford in 1977 getting them from the 4th division to the 1st in 5 seasons and they were a force in the top division in the mid 1980s (they hammered us 5-0 in the FA Cup in 1985). Graham Turner's long ball style got Shrewsbury promotion to the 2nd division and stayed there for most of the 1980s. Wimbledon won the FA Cup in 1988 using the same style and Dalglish's Liverpool used quite a bit of the long ball. in 1995 Blackburn won the title and they played the ball quickly to Shearer and Sutton. The two German teams in this season's Champions League final play more direct football than Barcelona or Real Madrid. I am not a fan of the continual long ball game but the passing style would give us a good start to the season but then by Xmas the results dont get consistent on the bad pitches.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

i'm not sure I get you. its easier for teams with smaller crowds to play passing football at home? what difference does that make? I agree football is psychological, but I don't think it has anything to do with style of play. how do the top European clubs like Barcelona, manu, real Madrid, Bayern etc pass the ball around with thousands of fans?

Bayern - arguably the best team around at the moment - don't play a passing game. Their game is based on power, strength, good organisation, running at the opposition and superior fitness.

 

[Silent Blade]

i'm not sure I get you. its easier for teams with smaller crowds to play passing football at home? what difference does that make? I agree football is psychological, but I don't think it has anything to do with style of play. how do the top European clubs like Barcelona, manu, real Madrid, Bayern etc pass the ball around with thousands of fans?

Bayern played more direct than Barcelona did over the two legs dont you think?

As for smaller clubs it is easier for them to play passing football for years because their fans accept that they will not have a lot of success for some years until one season they may have the right mixture of players (young players reaching their peaks and not many being snapped up by bigger clubs) and surprise everyone in their division by getting promotion. We Blades fans hate playing in this poor division and many of us easily lose patience when we are not scoring enough goals through too much passing and not getting enough shots then we put pressure on the players to play the balls up quickly. Hope you are now getting what I am trying to say? I would love us to play entertaining football and getting results like we did under John Harris but this has not happened for a long time so I think the best way for us us to play more of variety in our playing style with success and get us out of this division instead of passing the ball sideways for the sake of it!

 

[Pinchy]

This thread is about on about the best way in getting out of this tinpot division rather than looking for winning a trophy (might not happen in our lifetime!). Yes, there have been longball teams that have won trophies. Stan Cullis was very interested in Charles Reep's analysis (look him up in google). Reep stated that from watching a variety of matches in soccer and concluded most goals were scored from fewer than three passes: therefore he concluded it was important to get the ball quickly forward as soon as possible.The quicker the ball was played to goal with the least number of passes the more goals would be scored. His theory became known as the long ball. For three successive seasons Wolves scored over 100 league goals every season, won the league in 1958, 1959 and came second in 1960. Then in 1961 Spurs won the double with the style football you like to watch (I do like watching the style of football like Brazil did in 1960). But in 1962 Ipswich won the league with a "wingless" formation which became more used so "hoofball" was "out of fashion". Graham Taylor was probably the next manager to make the long ball game a real success. He got Lincoln to score 111 league goals in 1975-76 and went to Watford in 1977 getting them from the 4th division to the 1st in 5 seasons and they were a force in the top division in the mid 1980s (they hammered us 5-0 in the FA Cup in 1985). Graham Turner's long ball style got Shrewsbury promotion to the 2nd division and stayed there for most of the 1980s. Wimbledon won the FA Cup in 1988 using the same style and Dalglish's Liverpool used quite a bit of the long ball. in 1995 Blackburn won the title and they played the ball quickly to Shearer and Sutton. The two German teams in this season's Champions League final play more direct football than Barcelona or Real Madrid. I am not a fan of the continual long ball game but the passing style would give us a good start to the season but then by Xmas the results dont get consistent on the bad pitches.

The glory of Hoof covered in less than 18 lines. You could fill a library with the successes of proper football teams. I could write a couple of volumes myself about Pele's Brazil(s) and Platini's France. What's more, people enjoy that sort of football. By contrast, apart from a few Bassett-Brainwashed, Neanderthal Blades, the vast majority of fans regard Hoof as worthy only of contempt and ridicule. When you hear it shouted loudly and in unison by fans on TV, they are mocking, not applauding it!

Lets not pretend this is a balanced debate. The facts point only one way. With one or two notable exceptions, successful teams achieve that success by playing proper "pass an move". When professional managers and players speak of "playing the right way" we all know what they mean, and it's not "Gerritintbox" or "Upanatem".

I sometimes wonder what neutral fans reading this nonsense would think? I doubt their views would flatter some SUFC fans. They would, I suggest, be utterly bemused that anyone at all continues to fly the flag for kick and rush. So am I.

 

[Pinchy]

Bayern - arguably the best team around at the moment - don't play a passing game. Their game is based on power, strength, good organisation, running at the opposition and superior fitness.

And superb technique. Don't kid yourself, mate, they can pass teams to death. Let us know when you next see them lump an aimless 60 yard punt straight onto the head of the opposition's giant centre-back.

Oh, and the Spanish will be back....

 

[yorkshirecoast]

I sometimes wonder what neutral fans reading this nonsense would think?

Don't put yourself down. Seriously, you seem to have real difficulty understanding that kick and rush and pass, pass, pass are not the only options. Successful teams are able to retain possession - but equally have to show pace, power and attacking intent. Last season we were guilty of passing backwards, sideways and were far too negative. It was shite to watch and, despite it being the worst League 1 in years, it didn't work.

 

[Pinchy]

Don't put yourself down. Seriously, you seem to have real difficulty understanding that kick and rush and pass, pass, pass are not the only options. Successful teams are able to retain possession - but equally have to show pace, power and attacking intent. Last season we were guilty of passing backwards, sideways and were far too negative. It was shite to watch and, despite it being the worst League 1 in years, it didn't work.

....and after all those glorious Hoof-fuelled years of success!

We didnt play proper football for much of last season. We played cautious, negative Blackwellian shite. DW sacrificed his footballing principles and that was the big disappointment for me.

It wasn't a failure of style of play; it was a failure to play with style.

 

[Silent Blade]

The glory of Hoof covered in less than 18 lines. You could fill a library with the successes of proper football teams. I could write a couple of volumes myself about Pele's Brazil(s) and Platini's France. What's more, people enjoy that sort of football. By contrast, apart from a few Bassett-Brainwashed, Neanderthal Blades, the vast majority of fans regard Hoof as worthy only of contempt and ridicule. When you hear it shouted loudly and in unison by fans on TV, they are mocking, not applauding it!

Lets not pretend this is a balanced debate. The facts point only one way. With one or two notable exceptions, successful teams achieve that success by playing proper "pass an move". When professional managers and players speak of "playing the right way" we all know what they mean, and it's not "Gerritintbox" or "Upanatem".

I sometimes wonder what neutral fans reading this nonsense would think? I doubt their views would flatter some SUFC fans. They would, I suggest, be utterly bemused that anyone at all continues to fly the flag for kick and rush. So am I.

We do not have the money to buy quality players to make us a successful passing team. Last time we did that when Brealey allowed Porterfield to buy our way out of the 4th division. We were probably spending more on transfer fees and wages than some of the 1st division teams that season. Will there be a fool to take over SUFC to try and buy success for next season?? Buying success isnt that easy

 

[JohnDenver]

We do not have the money to buy quality players to make us a successful passing team.

Not in a single transfer window, or even two or three. But it's a journey worth embarking on.

For once in our existence we need to set a strategy and stick to it.

 

[Pinchy]

We do not have the money to buy quality players to make us a successful passing team. Last time we did that when Brealey allowed Porterfield to buy our way out of the 4th division. We were probably spending more on transfer fees and wages than some of the 1st division teams that season. Will there be a fool to take over SUFC to try and buy success for next season?? Buying success isnt that easy

Success isn't won by giving away possession at the first opportunity in the vain hope that the next touch will come from a team-mate. It's a simple game. Pass it, move into space to receive, or run with it, alter the angles to make space for others, or test your skill against your immediate opponent. All aspects of footballl the way it was meant to be played.

Aimless, hopeless punts, on the other hand, are the way to fail. I know, I've seen us do it all too often.

You don't need worldbeaters to play proper football. Just lads with decent technique, speed of thought and quick feet. The best news is, it's all relative. You only have to impress at the level you are at. To suggest that Sheffield United cannot compete and excel in Division Three by playing the game properly is a shameful philosophy of despair. For myself, I want nothing to do with it.

 

[alcoblade]

I sometimes wonder what neutral fans reading this nonsense would think? I doubt their views would flatter some SUFC fans. They would, I suggest, be utterly bemused that anyone at all continues to fly the flag for kick and rush. So am I.

They would be either full of shit and deluding themselves, or acknowledge that it's about winning football matches, and that the rest is fluff.

Pass it about and it will be successful - that's what you proposed, in those simple terms. Well, we did. And we've failed to escape England's third division for 2 season's running, the latter being the most boring that just about any of us can remember. That simple, eh? No, clearly it isn't.

You were wrong - And it is that simple.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Not in a single transfer window, or even two or three. But it's a journey worth embarking on.

For once in our existence we need to set a strategy and stick to it.

Get the most skilfull, pacey, athletic players available. Then play to their strengths.
Don't employ ageing journeyman, without very good reason.
Turn down the odd offer and show a bit of metal (this alone would have got a poor side promoted this season).


There's a strategy that doesn't limit us, will allow a style to develop after success, and won't have to bore us shitless just for the sake of sticking to a myth.

If we remain in the 3rd for 3 or 4 more seasons' chasing the myth, we could well disappear, and not become the next Swansea.

UTB

 

[Pinchy]

They would be either full of shit and deluding themselves, or acknowledge that it's about winning football matches, and that the rest is fluff.

Pass it about and it will be successful - that's what you proposed, in those simple terms. Well, we did. And we've failed to escape England's third division for 2 season's running, the latter being the most boring that just about any of us can remember. That simple, eh? No, clearly it isn't.

You were wrong - And it is that simple.

UTB

But, as I've said above, we didn't pass it about as well as others teams. DW lost his way and reverted to cautious, safety first stuff. it has to be pass and move: Pass alone will not do. In fact, latterly, as panic has set in, there's been quite a bit of Hoof [there'll be a feast if Morgan is appointed, by the way - hope you and a few mates enjoy it]

The fact that we've not played proper football properly, is an indictment of us; not of proper football.

As for 'Upanatem' Kick and Rush, Hoof and Hope: Well, that has no style at all. At least, not one that anyone in their right mind would want to watch. A strategy built on turning every pass into a challenge? It's madness!

 

[JohnDenver]

Get the most skilfull, pacey, athletic players available. Then play to their strengths.
Don't employ ageing journeyman, without very good reason.
Turn down the odd offer and show a bit of metal (this alone would have got a poor side promoted this season).


There's a strategy that doesn't limit us

Well, aye. It's not a question of Barca or bust.

I just want to see the same style played from youth team to first team, I want to see it persevered with for more than the tenure of any one manager or coach, and I want it to be a style based on positivity, passing and skill rather than purely percentages.

Other approaches should be plans B and C.

 

[alcoblade]

But, as I've said above, we didn't pass it about as well as others teams.

Because our players weren't capable of it. So we saw us pass it around for 3 minutes until we were closed down )and asleep), then players release it aimlessly under pressure.

There isn't a chance in hell Wilson told them to release it aimlessly, it was a result of insisting players do what they weren't capable of.

But that doesn't fit into a model where all you have to do is insist players "pass it to death and you will be successful, because look at Swansea". So you'll write that off as hoof too, rather than acknowledge the blindingly obvious, that it's nothing like as simple as you propose.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Well, aye. It's not a question of Barca or bust.

I just want to see the same style played from youth team to first team, I want to see it persevered with for more than the tenure of any one manager or coach, and I want it to be a style based on positivity, passing and skill rather than purely percentages.

Other approaches should be plans B and C.

I don't want purely percentages. I want us to recognise when we're best off playing the percentages.

UTB

 

[Bladesman]

They would be either full of shit and deluding themselves, or acknowledge that it's about winning football matches, and that the rest is fluff.

Pass it about and it will be successful - that's what you proposed, in those simple terms. Well, we did. And we've failed to escape England's third division for 2 season's running, the latter being the most boring that just about any of us can remember. That simple, eh? No, clearly it isn't.

You were wrong - And it is that simple.

UTB

90 points wins you most leagues and it was just our luck last season it didn't.

Not sure we played much passing football this season and certainly not in our last match. Hoof the Yeovil fans chanted and hmmmm how did that match finish?

So you are are wrong Hoofball doesn't fucking work simples.

 

[Pinchy]

Well, aye. It's not a question of Barca or bust.

I just want to see the same style played from youth team to first team, I want to see it persevered with for more than the tenure of any one manager or coach, and I want it to be a style based on positivity, passing and skill rather than purely percentages.

Other approaches should be plans B and C.

Good Lord. Breaking News!! An outbreak of sanity in S2. Bless you.

[Watch out for the Hoofwaffe - they are circling menacingly].

 

[alcoblade]

So you are are wrong Hoofball doesn't fucking work simples.

Aye, Doncaster didn't get promoted. And Pinchy told us they wouldn't.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

90 points wins you most leagues and it was just our luck last season it didn't..

Aye, I remember chanting "hoof" at Swillsborough, taking the piss out of their season based on hoof. They outmuscled us, won the 6 pointer, and it got them promoted.

But that didn't happen either, eh?

It's an outbreak of utter bullshit Pinchy, nothing more. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good punchline.

UTB

 

[Pinchy]

I don't want purely percentages. I want us to recognise when we're best off playing the percentages.

UTB

99% of the time, perhaps?