Stadium Development

[YES Blade]

Expanding the Lane is a lovely pipe-dream which nearly all of us have , but structurally impractical and without any financial foundation.
We are at the limit of our budgets and crowds whilst in the Championship and the only way we get to be in a larger , modern stadium is to ground-share with the pigs on a new site.
As eloquently described above , Leeds have a 3m catchment and we slug it out with 5 other clubs for a share of 1.5m - the maths is easy.
Given the old-fashioned entrenched attitude of most of our fanbases , anything which smacks of "progress" over "tradition" will be roundly rejected.
And we will stay as the "nearly club" which we've been my entire life - roughly 13 seasons of the last 60 in the top league.
That said , I'm enjoying the last couple of months of our football , at our level.
Some great attacking attitude but not worrying about having to suffer in that bent PL anytime soon , once the parachutes have gone.
If you want to make progress , you have to make changes - we don't , so we won't.
Wilder & Bettis will still be here without any presence from the owners , for years to come.
Which is at least comforting when you reflect on what the happened in the summer with the owner's choice of head coach

Why would we need to ground share? When clubs such as Brentford, Derby, Leicester, Reading, Southampton etc. can all build their own stadiums without needing to share, why can’t we?

 

[Hanauer]

Ask a Palace fan

It keeps popping up on social media that the pigs will be expanding to 53,000 capacity (surely not big enough) . The 30,000 useable seats at Bramall lane is not enough we need to be closer to a 40k stadium. You can't really compare us to one club cities like Leeds and Sunderland.

Pigs have the highest number of empty seats in attendance history. They've had 50/60000 capacities but have hardly ever needed anything like that only for Internationals and Semi finals. They'd be better with a 35000 capacity which apart from the occasional game is all they'd need.

 

[Keen Blade]

Why would we need to ground share? When clubs such as Brentford, Derby, Leicester, Reading, Southampton etc. can all build their own stadiums without needing to share, why can’t we?

Same reason as why we can't do anything with Dore - our owners aren't billionaires who at the time had big money to throw at capital projects (which are not restricted by FFP).

 

[YES Blade]

Same reason as why we can't do anything with Dore - our owners aren't billionaires who at the time had big money to throw at capital projects (which are not restricted by FFP).

Owners don’t use their own money for stadiums, they also don’t pay for it in cash. It would be a long term loan.

I’m not saying saddling ourselves with a shit load of debt for a new stadium would be the way to go. All I’m saying is that we don’t need that lot from across the city in order to have a new stadium should we wish to.

 

[Keen Blade]

Big

Owners don’t use their own money for stadiums, they also don’t pay for it in cash. It would be a long term loan.

I’m not saying saddling ourselves with a shit load of debt for a new stadium would be the way to go. All I’m saying is that we don’t need that lot from across the city in order to have a new stadium should we wish to.

Big loans are a lot less daunting if you're a billionaire owner ,
Both for the owner and the bank.

Halving the risk by ground-sharing is one way it might work for us , given the nature of our owners and the likely nature of the pigs consortium.

 

[Gimli]

It was a fantastic evening that, although feels like a lifetime ago still remember it like it was yesterday. That was my team I grew up watching away with my mates, when I went to my first away games without family a couple of seasons before. I was just looking at the squads from that night and some legends in there that were shockingly bad footballers but were brilliant, probably the last generation of personalities, but used to love Kozzy, and Monty but to think they became Premier League Footballers is bananas! Although the bizarrely hilarious quote from Blackwell about the game ""Sometimes you wake up in a morning and you know it's going to be a great day, but this ended up being a dark night"

Dark night?

Night time is the best time of night!

 

[CrookesBlade]

Why would we need to ground share? When clubs such as Brentford, Derby, Leicester, Reading, Southampton etc. can all build their own stadiums without needing to share, why can’t we?

I suppose the argument for is sharing the cost puts us in a more advantageous position financially….bit like West Ham getting the Olympic stadium for nowt. Two clubs in the same city, similar size crowds etc….not an opportunity that every other club mentioned would have.

That said we should have the wherewithal to do it ourselves. A shared stadium would ultimately feel a bit soulless and unloved.

Plus given recent form I doubt our friends across the city would be good for their half. More likely to be playing future games at Concord Park rather than a new 40 odd thousand seater standout .

 

[MobileBlade]

You'll be laughing on the other side of your face when Morpeth Town turn up with a 15,000 strong backing for a 'six pointer' in April!

What about their 'Big Derby' with Stocksbridge PS as well?

utb

Actually FC United of Manchester and Hednesford Town regularly take large numbers away from home (although the latter will probably be in the National League North next season having spent more on their ground in the last 12 months than Wednesday have in the last 10 years and probably have a wage bill similar to Wednesdays).

 

[BouncinBlade]

They do and they like to let everyone know about it especially the ones that have never been to a game and didn't know we beat them 4-0 at Elland Road under Warnock (although trips to the sty have probably eclipsed that now it is definitely in my top 10 away games). When you try and have a sensible conversation about the point they are trying to hammer home they fail to understand that the Leeds area has a population of over 800,000 with West Yorkshire being 2.4 million, then on top of that they have a lion share of North Yorkshire (another 600,000 +) too despite having Harrogate Town and arguably 'Boro (some say it's North Yorkshire) on their doorstep. Granted not everyone is a football supporter and some will have other teams (like me) but when you look at the competition for Leeds, it is Bradford City, Huddersfield Town, Harrogate Town (very recently with a low supporter base of a few thousand), arguably York City at one point too and 'Boro until you reach the South Yorkshire clubs.

They also have an Irish fan base that travel over to Leeds Bradford Airport from Dublin and Belfast for games before returning the same day in the evening. When you look at the area they have to "recruit" from it is nearly 3million people. When that club is in the Premier League and being successful the backing should naturally be large from that number however if you look at stats for example 20 years ago in 2006 the average home attendance in the championship for them was just 22,355 which is less than the season ticket waiting list. 10 years ago in 2016 it was 27,699 although an increase not by much. They bang on about how great they are but if we had 1 South Yorkshire club which would be covering a population of around 1.5 million so approx half of the "recruitment fan base" with average attendances across the "big 5" clubs in South Yorkshire we would be averaging between 80-90,000 just on home support alone.

This is true... Leeds have a huge following. Not just in Ireland but in Sweden and Norway too. I live in Leeds and come across European Leeds fan's regularly

 

[BouncinBlade]

Hate the pukka pies corner (or whatever it's called). Just looking at it makes me shudder. Surely that had been built to accommodate a new Kop?

 

[CaptainMorgans]

 

[Tony Currie]

We are very lucky at Bramall lane we have many advantages.

1. Walkable to Sheffield city centre/railway station
2. Modern facilities after major redevelopment - Hotel/Suites/Excellent Food and Pub options
3. Great for matchday atmosphere, Traditional, close-up football experience
4. Fantastic for night games
5, Excellent Food and Pub options nearby
6. The oldest major stadium in the world still hosting professional football
7. First floodlit football match in 1862
8. Hosted Test match cricket, FA cup final and England internationals.
9. Planning permission for major increases — mainly by enlarging the South Stand and the Kop. If both projects were completed, capacity would rise beyond 40,000.

 

[s20Blade]

I for one am sick of all the shiny plastic new stuff! A rustic kop along with pillars and pissed soaked toilet floors soon fills up my senses.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

7. First floodlit football match in 1862

The plaque on the wall outside Bramall Lane says 1878.

 

[jimmymuir]

I for one am sick of all the shiny plastic new stuff! A rustic kop along with pillars and pissed soaked toilet floors soon fills up my senses.

There's something beautiful to me about an old historical football ground like ours, there are many other examples in the EFL too. Think I'd give up with football if we ever left BDTBL and moved to a new stadium (soulless bowl).

 

[sufc323]

All we need to do is flatten the Kop and rebuild it with a steeper rake, facilities inside rather than out, and no obstructed seats. The other stands are fine for now, but rebuilding the Kop will benefit us for decades to come and will improve the chances of more non SUFC events taking place and therefore increasing revenue.

 

[Dave]

The outdoor facilities for me are what make it so special. Yes you get piss wet through for 5 mins walking up to your seat but you were wet before from the walk. In the end of season push and new season there is no better place than having a beer in the sunshine. Makes it special

All we need to do is flatten the Kop and rebuild it with a steeper rake, facilities inside rather than out, and no obstructed seats. The other stands are fine for now, but rebuilding the Kop will benefit us for decades to come and will improve the chances of more non SUFC events taking place and therefore increasing revenue.

 

[pollster]

I don' know what has triggered this
BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE
that four or five weeks ago
the main article back page on The Sheffield Telegraph was
THAT THE EMPHASIS NEXT SEASON
is on the CAT 1 development!
ie any building
MOST OF THE EXPENDITURE
will be going on that.
Where that money comes from
eg new investors in the failing falling club
eg STAR player sales
I am not privv,
I do know it is not from parachute payments wasted on ludicrous signings Cqnnon and Tanganga and enormous wages on ex internationals and Prem League has beens given contracts for next year as well as this.
Whether it was in the Star I don't know
That has become unreadable online because the web site is so badly designed
I should have a phone picture somewhere but not available now.
So forget the signings
Worry about the sales
Forget ground development

 

[sufc323]

That has become unreadable

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Could we encourage the owners to paint the Kop pillars ......Black......that way some of our players will stop thinking they are goal posts when they are shooting.

 

[s20Blade]

There's something beautiful to me about an old historical football ground like ours, there are many other examples in the EFL too. Think I'd give up with football if we ever left BDTBL and moved to a new stadium (soulless bowl).

Thankfully that won't really happen due to us being skint again

 

[S64 Blade]

Get a new 50,000 seater stadium built on Park Square! Barge terminal at Victoria Quays to bring fans in from all over the world.

 

[Sheffsteel]

All we need to do is flatten the Kop and rebuild it with a steeper rake, facilities inside rather than out, and no obstructed seats. The other stands are fine for now, but rebuilding the Kop will benefit us for decades to come and will improve the chances of more non SUFC events taking place and therefore increasing revenue.

Sounds so simple. If it was a computer game then I’d agree, ideally I’d also prefer to clear the site and start again with a new Kop stand.

But the reality is it would cost far too much….also probably anger and lose fans
And would take decades to get the money back. No competent business would take on this investment.

For starters capacity would reduce to 20K for at least 2 full seasons. Where do the Kop season ticket holders go? I suppose you could tell them to stop attending for 2 years but the habit will be broken, they’ll find other things to do and might not return.

Also before work is even started there’s a massive amount of earth that would need removing.
Making the Kop steeper would reduce capacity….unless we make the stand taller….but then its not in line with the other stands.

The best plan has already been drawn up by McCabe years ago and it offers everything, apart from more leg room in the present seats.
Removal of the pillars, at extra 3.2K seats at the back of the Kop.
Large fully enclosed concourse areas with new modern bars, refreshments areas and toilets.

Another massive advantage is the work only takes 18 months, so only ONE season would be effected
And whilst building work is being done most of the Kop would remain open so not much lost revenue.

A competent business studies the cost of the investment and compares it to the return on investment and timescale to get their money back.
The problem is…..unless we’re in the PL there’s no evidence we need a 34K stadium capacity.

Also these days business investors are more interested in upgrading corporate/ executive facilities as that’s where the most profit is made.
So I would have thought given the choice….the new owners would prefer to upgrade the South stand instead of the Kop.

The plans showed an extra 5.4K seats, underground car park, massively upgrades and expanded executive suite/ restaurant, fancy larger boardroom, new media centre and massively expanded superstore shop on the corner of Shoreham Street.

These days the executive facilities and even the media facilities are really important.
An upgraded South stand would represent the face of SUFC and would be used to impress VIP guests, potential investors, potential players and media people.

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

Sounds so simple. If it was a computer game then I’d agree, ideally I’d also prefer to clear the site and start again with a new Kop stand.

But the reality is it would cost far too much….also probably anger and lose fans
And would take decades to get the money back. No competent business would take on this investment.

For starters capacity would reduce to 20K for at least 2 full seasons. Where do the Kop season ticket holders go? I suppose you could tell them to stop attending for 2 years but the habit will be broken, they’ll find other things to do and might not return.

Also before work is even started there’s a massive amount of earth that would need removing.
Making the Kop steeper would reduce capacity….unless we make the stand taller….but then its not in line with the other stands.

The best plan has already been drawn up by McCabe years ago and it offers everything, apart from more leg room in the present seats.
Removal of the pillars, at extra 3.2K seats at the back of the Kop.
Large fully enclosed concourse areas with new modern bars, refreshments areas and toilets.

Another massive advantage is the work only takes 18 months, so only ONE season would be effected
And whilst building work is being done most of the Kop would remain open so not much lost revenue.

A competent business studies the cost of the investment and compares it to the return on investment and timescale to get their money back.
The problem is…..unless we’re in the PL there’s no evidence we need a 34K stadium capacity.

Also these days business investors are more interested in upgrading corporate/ executive facilities as that’s where the most profit is made.
So I would have thought given the choice….the new owners would prefer to upgrade the South stand instead of the Kop.

The plans showed an extra 5.4K seats, underground car park, massively upgrades and expanded executive suite/ restaurant, fancy larger boardroom, new media centre and massively expanded superstore shop on the corner of Shoreham Street.

These days the executive facilities and even the media facilities are really important.
An upgraded South stand would represent the face of SUFC and would be used to impress VIP guests, potential investors, potential players and media people.

Tell me to stop going to the Lane for 2 years?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[sufc323]

Sounds so simple. If it was a computer game then I’d agree, ideally I’d also prefer to clear the site and start again with a new Kop stand.

But the reality is it would cost far too much….also probably anger and lose fans
And would take decades to get the money back. No competent business would take on this investment.

For starters capacity would reduce to 20K for at least 2 full seasons. Where do the Kop season ticket holders go? I suppose you could tell them to stop attending for 2 years but the habit will be broken, they’ll find other things to do and might not return.

Also before work is even started there’s a massive amount of earth that would need removing.
Making the Kop steeper would reduce capacity….unless we make the stand taller….but then its not in line with the other stands.

The best plan has already been drawn up by McCabe years ago and it offers everything, apart from more leg room in the present seats.
Removal of the pillars, at extra 3.2K seats at the back of the Kop.
Large fully enclosed concourse areas with new modern bars, refreshments areas and toilets.

Another massive advantage is the work only takes 18 months, so only ONE season would be effected
And whilst building work is being done most of the Kop would remain open so not much lost revenue.

A competent business studies the cost of the investment and compares it to the return on investment and timescale to get their money back.
The problem is…..unless we’re in the PL there’s no evidence we need a 34K stadium capacity.

Also these days business investors are more interested in upgrading corporate/ executive facilities as that’s where the most profit is made.
So I would have thought given the choice….the new owners would prefer to upgrade the South stand instead of the Kop.

The plans showed an extra 5.4K seats, underground car park, massively upgrades and expanded executive suite/ restaurant, fancy larger boardroom, new media centre and massively expanded superstore shop on the corner of Shoreham Street.

These days the executive facilities and even the media facilities are really important.
An upgraded South stand would represent the face of SUFC and would be used to impress VIP guests, potential investors, potential players and media people.

I agree that it would be a massive inconvenience and a ball ache whilst being carried out, but it does need doing at some point. From what I've read on here and being told by older family members, the Kop upgrade in the early 90's was only meant to be a temporary measure. We're now 35 years on from that, and I don't think bolting 3,000 extra seats on the back of the existing Kop is now the best method. Bear in mind, those McCabe plans got drawn up in 2009 and now probably outdated compared to modern stadia, current technology and fan satisfaction, which is why I think a complete rebuild is the best solution. It seems surreal that in 2026 we get battered by wind and rain to go and have a piss/get a pint.

The South Stand would probably appeal more to the board to look at first for the reasons you've listed, but I know that a lot of money has being spent on the current South Stand since the McCabe plans first got issued. Our corporate facilities in there now are excellent and didn't look out of place in the PL, so there might not be such a greater need than when the plans first got released.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

In reality and on topic it seems the big work this summer is a month long rebuild of the club shop!

 

[FriethBlade]

View attachment 235749

How has it played out for Derby, Wigan, Bolton, Darlington to name a few off the top of my head?

If we regularly filled the Lane i could understand it and i realise at some point you have to renovate but investing in a new ground when we need to invest in the squad or else risk a visit to league one is futile

The time when investment should have been made was when we had the PL riches however 50m went on the likes of Brewster/Moose/McBurnie instead of a new academy

 

[Snowflake]

Tell me to stop going to the Lane for 2 years?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Depends on whether those two years are better or worse than the last two !!