Stadium Development

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MobileBlade said:
Think I've explained previously, if you knock down and rebuild moving the pitch position you can only get Uefa grade four grading if the pitch runs north West to south east. Same with a new build. Evertons new ground does that.
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That's fascinating. Just did a bit of research and it looks like UEFA would recommend a North-South orientation but don't actually enforce it - They account for site specific circumstances.

I asked GPT to explain - it's long winded so I'll put the info in a spoiler.

There are guidelines and best practices regarding pitch orientation, but no strict UEFA or FIFA laws mandating a specific direction. However, stadium planners and governing bodies strongly recommend certain orientations for player visibility, broadcasting quality, and spectator comfort.

1. Traditional Best Practice: North-South Orientation​

  • The ideal pitch orientation is north-south (or slightly northeast-southwest).
  • This prevents the sun from being directly in players' eyes during matches.
  • It also ensures goalkeepers aren’t blinded by low sunlight when facing one direction.
  • Many historic stadiums (e.g., Old Trafford, Anfield) follow this principle, though urban constraints sometimes force deviations.

2. UEFA & FIFA Guidelines on Pitch Orientation​

Neither UEFA nor FIFA explicitly require a north-south pitch, but:
  • FIFA Stadium Guidelines (2011)state:
    • “Where possible, the main axis of the field of play should run north to south, to ensure fair playing conditions at all times of the day.”
  • UEFA doesn’t enforce a rule, but stadium design must consider lighting, shading, and broadcasting effects.
If a club rebuilds or reorients a stadium, UEFA inspectors may evaluate whether pitch direction affects match conditions.

3. Broadcasting & Lighting Considerations​

  • TV Broadcasters prefer east-west stands to minimize shadows affecting camera views.
  • Floodlighting regulations (minimum 1,400 lux for UEFA Category 4) help offset poor natural lighting conditions.
Example:
  • West Ham’s London Stadium was originally built for athletics, meaning the pitch orientation wasn’t ideal for football, but was adjusted within constraints.

4. Exceptions & Constraints​

  • Urban stadiums: Some clubs, like Chelsea (Stamford Bridge) and AC Milan (San Siro), had to adapt to existing city layouts.
  • Extreme latitudes: In Nordic countries, low winter sun can force alternative orientations.
  • Heritage grounds: Historic stadiums may have been built before orientation was a major factor.

Final Verdict​

  • No strict rule, but north-south is recommended.
  • UEFA & FIFA evaluate practical impact (e.g., glare, fairness, broadcasting).
  • If a club reorients its pitch during a rebuild, it may need approval from national authorities and UEFA inspections.
 
Jon Bon II said:
I love how these types of thread bring all the 'stadium rotators' out of the woodwork. They really are the flat-earthers of stadium development.

'But, but, but... I built a model on Minecraft and The Simms. Makes you think though...." 🤣
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Thing is, if you're serious about developing the stadium (I'm talking Billionaire play thing, pie in the sky) , you have to see that the Away End and John Street hamper us. There are 2 options -

1: Buy up the houses on John Street and build up and over onto the other side of the road*
-Buy up the land over on the other side of Bramall Lane and turn the road into a tunnel.
-Massively revamp the South Stand
-Knock down the Kop and start again

2: Knock the lot down, start with a blank canvas and use the site to the best it can be - which is rotate the pitch (in accordance with UEFA recommended guidelines) and build a state of the art stadium on the site. The romantic thing to do would be to ensure that the new playing surface is positioned, as much as possible, over the old playing surface.

It's fucking mental that I have to point out this is pie in the sky dream land. Obviously we're not about to do any of these things, but if we're dreaming, that's the way I see it.

*This option would, in a way be harder as it would require additional land purchases etc.
 
metalblade said:
What actually are the advantages of Bramall Lane? The area it sits in is a proper shithole of student accommodation, nowhere to park cars without walking into town or halfway up Norfolk park. Public transport well yet again a 15min walk to the rail station or a now largely disused bus station the pubs closest to the ground are probably as old as the club itself and not really fit for purpose.
Crack on if you are into 15min cities and all that crap but then you put significant barriers to people with limited mobility or of older age. If they can't sell out the Leeds game there is a reason. Who in their right mind will pay top dollar for a restricted view seat (and let's be fair we have loads of them) when the game is a late kick off on TV where you stay warm and dry and get a better view. Maybe if you live in Sheffield you could be home by11pm if not it is more like midnight at least if using public transport.
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This is a mental take BTW. You're completely discounting the fact it's the clubs home. That's enough of a reason to override all grumbles about access, parking, pubs, the lot. It was there long before any of us and hopefully will be long after we're gone. We choose to follow the club, come rain, shine, Div 4 or VAR. Crackers.
 
PeterNdlovu081 said:
That's a lot of looking going on.

Out of all the teams you mentioned only Everton currently have a better stadium than us.

And I only say better because it's brand new and presumably has better facilities and all the rest of it.

Bramall Lane is roughly the same standard as Elland Road, the City Ground and Selhurst Park. Dean Court genuinely wouldn't look out of place in the National League. Craven Cottage is a nice little ground but it's a relic. The new Brentford stadium is the epitome of meh.

I don't see how any of these clubs are disappearing into the distance.

Forest, Bournemouth, Brentford and Palace might be miles ahead of us on the pitch but it's nothing to do with the stadiums they play in.
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You seem to be ignoring the point I make about future plans, of which many of our peers seem to have quite advanced designs and we have, apparently, none. Let's see how long we remain close to Leeds when they are in a modern 60k seater.
 
Blade for Sale said:
You seem to be ignoring the point I make about future plans, of which many of our peers seem to have quite advanced designs and we have, apparently, none. Let's see how long we remain close to Leeds when they are in a modern 60k seater.
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What concrete plans do Leeds have in place for expansion of their stadium?

Anybody can say they're looking at future developments, it means nothing.
 
metalblade said:
What actually are the advantages of Bramall Lane? The area it sits in is a proper shithole of student accommodation, nowhere to park cars without walking into town or halfway up Norfolk park. Public transport well yet again a 15min walk to the rail station or a now largely disused bus station the pubs closest to the ground are probably as old as the club itself and not really fit for purpose.
Crack on if you are into 15min cities and all that crap but then you put significant barriers to people with limited mobility or of older age. If they can't sell out the Leeds game there is a reason. Who in their right mind will pay top dollar for a restricted view seat (and let's be fair we have loads of them) when the game is a late kick off on TV where you stay warm and dry and get a better view. Maybe if you live in Sheffield you could be home by11pm if not it is more like midnight at least if using public transport.
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I to and fro on the train, or bus. Young un travels in from Leeds. We have drinks before and Mrs comes in on the bus for drinks after in town. We all manage to have a great day. No hassle.
Anything can be shit if that's what you want to see.
 
Ron_Justice said:
Thing is, if you're serious about developing the stadium (I'm talking Billionaire play thing, pie in the sky) , you have to see that the Away End and John Street hamper us. There are 2 options -

1: Buy up the houses on John Street and build up and over onto the other side of the road*
-Buy up the land over on the other side of Bramall Lane and turn the road into a tunnel.
-Massively revamp the South Stand
-Knock down the Kop and start again

2: Knock the lot down, start with a blank canvas and use the site to the best it can be - which is rotate the pitch (in accordance with UEFA recommended guidelines) and build a state of the art stadium on the site. The romantic thing to do would be to ensure that the new playing surface is positioned, as much as possible, over the old playing surface.

It's fucking mental that I have to point out this is pie in the sky dream land. Obviously we're not about to do any of these things, but if we're dreaming, that's the way I see it.

*This option would, in a way be harder as it would require additional land purchases etc.
Click to expand...

I honestly can not understand why it would be seen as “pie in the sky dream land” when Luton are proposing to build a new stadium at a cost of £450m!

Obviously they haven’t actually built it and it could fall through, especially if relegated. But if a club like Luton think it’s feasible to spend that sort of money on a stadium, then there is no reason at all why we couldn’t!
 
YES Blade said:
I honestly can not understand why it would be seen as “pie in the sky dream land” when Luton are proposing to build a new stadium at a cost of £450m!

Obviously they haven’t actually built it and it could fall through, especially if relegated. But if a club like Luton think it’s feasible to spend that sort of money on a stadium, then there is no reason at all why we couldn’t!
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Perhaps you're right. Maybe it's me caveating the shit out of a stance ;)

But seriously though, and I don't know the specifics of Luton's new ground*, but I think the challenges of our situation mean that it's an all or nothing/lick of paint approach and a lifetime of the latter has conditioned me (any many others I suspect) to think that half a billion investment is completely off the table.

As others have said, a complete new build would mean a temporary home. This, to my mind, would be the biggest issue. The Idea of playing in Derby is mental. We'd be better taking the hit and go somewhere much more local but smaller.

I'm discounting the idea of a completely new home, somewhere other than The Lane, as it doesn't bare thinking about 🤮

*Are they moving from Kenilworth Road?
 
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metalblade said:
What actually are the advantages of Bramall Lane? The area it sits in is a proper shithole of student accommodation, nowhere to park cars without walking into town or halfway up Norfolk park. Public transport well yet again a 15min walk to the rail station or a now largely disused bus station the pubs closest to the ground are probably as old as the club itself and not really fit for purpose.
Crack on if you are into 15min cities and all that crap but then you put significant barriers to people with limited mobility or of older age. If they can't sell out the Leeds game there is a reason. Who in their right mind will pay top dollar for a restricted view seat (and let's be fair we have loads of them) when the game is a late kick off on TV where you stay warm and dry and get a better view. Maybe if you live in Sheffield you could be home by11pm if not it is more like midnight at least if using public transport.
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1. It's central, doesn't favour one part of the city over another. Also there's a sense of pride that we belong in the heart of the city, like it's beating heart.
2. The stadium feels incredibly authentic - much prefer it over these soulless symmetrical modern stadiums that are just clones of each other
3. Can walk it from the main train station in 15 minutes, that's pretty good compared to most stadiums.
4. As long as you park up one hour+ before kick off you can find a parking space within 7 minutes walk. You're definitely not looking in the right places if you're finding you have to park further away than that.
5. Panenka bar is very modern - plenty of staff, loads of screens, 3 or 4 minutes from the ground.
6. This is probably the most important : BP Petrol Station and Spar on Bramall Lane has been voted best in the UK.
 
Surely it wouldn't make sense to build another stadium on another bit of land instead of just adding 10-15k capacity to the lane?
 
Ron_Justice said:
As others have said, a complete new build would mean a temporary home. This, to my mind, would be the biggest issue. The Idea of playing in Derby is mental. We'd be better taking the hit and go somewhere much more local but smaller.
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Then you are talking about Barnsley or Huddersfield (on the assumption you are ruling out the Sty).

Both have c 23-24k seats. Nothing else closer than Derby has more than 12-15k.

As much as it pains me to say it, if we did have to relocate for 2 seasons (and that's what it would be AT LEAST) the most likely place is the Sty - and presumably we'd have to pay to bring it up to PL standard if we happened to find ourselves there whilst in the PL.

To me, the practicalities of it all mean the most likely redevelopments are, in order:

1. Piecemeal stand by stand redevelopment of the current stadia
2. Move to completely brand new purpose built stadium
3. Brand new purpose built stadium on existing site

On 1 we already know what the likely plans would be - build the extra tier at the back of the existing SS, then do the Kop. At that point if you are thinking long term you are moving the kop back by 10-15 yards eyeing a potential BL rebuild at some point...

All this assumes unlimited cash of course
 

Ron_Justice said:
Perhaps you're right. Maybe it's me caveating the shit out of a stance ;)

But seriously though, and I don't know the specifics of Luton's new ground*, but I think the challenges of our situation mean that it's an all or nothing/lick of paint approach and a lifetime of the latter has conditioned me (any many others I suspect) to think that half a billion investment is completely off the table.

As others have said, a complete new build would mean a temporary home. This, to my mind, would be the biggest issue. The Idea of playing in Derby is mental. We'd be better taking the hit and go somewhere much more local but smaller.

*Are they moving from Kenilworth Road?
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Yes, Luton are moving, that’s also an option we could consider.

Crowds are very healthy across all divisions and other clubs are building, have built and are proposing major developments. So why not us?

There would obviously be challenges, but if we want to establish ourselves as the biggest club in Sheffield and Yorkshire, whilst also competing in the Premier League, a top class stadium would be part of making that happen.
 
Fjortoft's Aeroplane said:
1. It's central, doesn't favour one part of the city over another. Also there's a sense of pride that we belong in the heart of the city, like it's beating heart.
2. The stadium feels incredibly authentic - much prefer it over these soulless symmetrical modern stadiums that are just clones of each other
3. Can walk it from the main train station in 15 minutes, that's pretty good compared to most stadiums.
4. As long as you park up one hour+ before kick off you can find a parking space within 7 minutes walk. You're definitely not looking in the right places if you're finding you have to park further away than that.
5. Panenka bar is very modern - plenty of staff, loads of screens, 3 or 4 minutes from the ground.
6. This is probably the most important : BP Petrol Station and Spar on Bramall Lane has been voted best in the UK.
Click to expand...

“This is probably the most important : BP Petrol Station and Spar on Bramall Lane has been voted best in the UK.”

Well obviously we can’t ever relocate now…….
 
Blade for Sale said:
You seem to be ignoring the point I make about future plans, of which many of our peers seem to have quite advanced designs and we have, apparently, none. Let's see how long we remain close to Leeds when they are in a modern 60k seater.
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You can't compare us to Leeds in my view. Leeds is a one club city and a huge population of 822,000 and Wakefield has no team of note nor other areas like Dewsbury. Yes Leeds has rugby but the rugby league season is predominantly over the summer and you can still support both rugby and football anyway of course.

The success Leeds had under Revie too catapulted them into a worldwide club. Personally I've known several Leeds fans over the years and none of them are from Leeds, how often to you meet a Blades fans who supports United who isn't from Sheffield or who's parents are not from Sheffield? It's a lot rarer than Leeds fans not from Leeds that's for sure

Leeds should be a top six PL club but have massively underachieved. A more close comparison to us would be Leicester, Wolves, and Brighton. All three have achieved a lot more than us recently but they've also had a lot more investment in their playing squad and training ground.
 
Anyone know how much the corner in Bramall Lane was ? could we not do something similar to the kop coming round from the south stand , might get you another 1500 seats and surely not that expensive
 
Booker4 said:
You can't compare us to Leeds in my view. Leeds is a one club city and a huge population of 822,000 and Wakefield has no team of note nor other areas like Dewsbury. Yes Leeds has rugby but the rugby league season is predominantly over the summer and you can still support both rugby and football anyway of course.

The success Leeds had under Revie too catapulted them into a worldwide club. Personally I've known several Leeds fans over the years and none of them are from Leeds, how often to you meet a Blades fans who supports United who isn't from Sheffield or who's parents are not from Sheffield? It's a lot rarer than Leeds fans not from Leeds that's for sure

Leeds should be a top six PL club but have massively underachieved. A more close comparison to us would be Leicester, Wolves, and Brighton. All three have achieved a lot more than us recently but they've also had a lot more investment in their playing squad and training ground.
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Our performances on the pitch have been similar over the last 20 years or so. But by the sounds of it you think we should give up trying to compete with clubs like Leeds.
 
YES Blade said:
I honestly can not understand why it would be seen as “pie in the sky dream land” when Luton are proposing to build a new stadium at a cost of £450m!

Obviously they haven’t actually built it and it could fall through, especially if relegated. But if a club like Luton think it’s feasible to spend that sort of money on a stadium, then there is no reason at all why we couldn’t!
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It is.
It means without PL money and a billionaire benefactor, we are bankrupt. People who talk about small town mentality are deluded. What they are proposing is just huge debt without any real substance. No such plan has a business case, only the debt cycle that the PL has made the norm.
Everton have been walking that tightrope. Relegation would have shut the club.
 
YES Blade said:
Our performances on the pitch have been similar over the last 20 years or so. But by the sounds of it you think we should give up trying to compete with clubs like Leeds.
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I've not said let's not compete with Leeds. We already are doing that. I'm saying that Leeds and us are very different clubs size wise. It's just a fact.

I don't think changing the stadium is what we need to move onto the next level like Brighton have done. Brighton had a tiny crap ground so they needed a new stadium. I think we need to invest in the training ground, better recruitment and yes improve BL.

Leeds have come down to our level as opposed to us going up to their previous level which was top ten in the PL most seasons - in the 90's and they won the league in 1992 having spent millions on that side, whereas we got the occasional Leeds cast off.

It doesn't mean we can't compete but it's hard over a prolonged period as Leeds are a much bigger club as are Newcastle and Villa for example. Wilder said exactly the same yesterday. But I do want to see us compete with Leeds and Villa etc in the PL but it's always tough because they're bigger clubs with huge resources behind them. I don't think I'm saying anything controversial here!
 
Greasy Chap Butty said:
It is.
It means without PL money and a billionaire benefactor, we are bankrupt. People who talk about small town mentality are deluded. What they are proposing is just huge debt without any real substance. No such plan has a business case, only the debt cycle that the PL has made the norm.
Everton have been walking that tightrope. Relegation would have shut the club.
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Explain to me why it’s possible for Luton to believe it’s feasible to move to a £450m stadium, but for us it’s pie in the sky?

I’m not comparing us to Everton, Spurs or Man U, they’re at a completely different level to us with their stadiums. This is Luton FFS!
 
YES Blade said:
Explain to me why it’s possible for Luton to believe it’s feasible to move to a £450m stadium, but for us it’s pie in the sky?

I’m not comparing us to Everton, Spurs or Man U, they’re at a completely different level to us with their stadiums. This is Luton FFS!
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I don't know why they think it's feasible.
As we know from the last few seasons, running sustainably or at break even, is virtually impossible, even with PL money some seasons. So, how can £450m for a vanity project be sensible? Zero business case. It is just debt that needs servicing. See Everton for how that works.
 
bladestrivia said:
Anyone know how much the corner in Bramall Lane was ? could we not do something similar to the kop coming round from the south stand , might get you another 1500 seats and surely not that expensive
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Wikipedia says the Pukka Pie corner hold 900 seats (probably 800 with the restricted views).

The original plans had a media centre and offices on the Kop/ South stand corner but I suppose they could build a corner in-fill there. It would likely be bigger,
maybe an extra 1,500 seats but they would need to remove the side panel from the South stand so people in the corner stand can see the pitch
so maybe the cantilever roof might need additional work to strengthen it.

The danger is it might look a bit weird as we’re trying to join up 2 stands with different rakes and it’s an expense just for an extra 1500 seats.
Probably wise and more economical to wait until we do the Kop (worse stand in the entire stadium) and then consider a corner extension at the same time.
 
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Greasy Chap Butty said:
I don't know why they think it's feasible.
As we know from the last few seasons, running sustainably or at break even, is virtually impossible, even with PL money some seasons. So, how can £450m for a vanity project be sensible? Zero business case. It is just debt that needs servicing. See Everton for how that works.
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Vanity project? The stadium brings in revenue, it’s one of our biggest sources of income. Maybe trying to increase that income would be a good idea?

Plenty of clubs have built new stadiums and others are planning on building new stadiums. Are you telling me they’re all wrong and have wasted their money? How did they get loans approved to spend millions or even billions on something with zero business case?
 
YES Blade said:
Vanity project? The stadium brings in revenue, it’s one of our biggest sources of income. Maybe trying to increase that income would be a good idea?

Plenty of clubs have built new stadiums and others are planning on building new stadiums. Are you telling me they’re all wrong and have wasted their money? How did they get loans approved to spend millions or even billions on something with zero business case?
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You do the maths on £450m expenditure Vs return, and get it built.
 

Pedro Verde said:
There are loads of pubs near BDTBL most of them were probably built after 1889
Please tell me the ones that are not fit for purpose ?
What is the purpose of a pub ?
They all serve beer some of it very good beer
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Many grounds you are lucky if you have more than 2 “carling and John Smiths” type pubs nearby.
 
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