Stadium Development

[YES Blade]

Would we as fans be prepared to have at one stand/kop closed for 12-18 months and take the pain. Season tickets only covering say 2/3rds of games so that every one sees some but not all games backed up by a solid system of transferring tickets back to the club if you are not able to attend. If we as fans bought into that then the development could be much better than tinkering about. Also more expensive so dependant on owners having some real big money

The other option would be to move to a new stadium, given that option I’d like to think that most fans would be happy to give up attending some matches for the greater good.

Also with the ticketing systems we have in place, it makes it easier for tickets to be reallocated. So it could mean that some season ticket holders would miss less matches anyway.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I think the match on Sunday clearly shows that we need a much bigger stadium to not only hold our current fan base but to grow, for a start if we give the whole of the away end to away fans and move out and from the BL upper tier then we need expansion to seat them. If in the prem 80% of clubs would fail the away end.

How many premier league sides do that? Blackburn when they were up gave large away allocations but other than that it's not the norm. You'd think it would be though as a lot of premier league sides easily fill away allocations of 3k

 

[CarlMcBlade]

O

That’s a bit of a daft comment, I obviously go to watch United and with them playing at Bramall Lane, I don’t have many options! What am I supposed to do? Just go to away matches? I’m obviously not going to stop going because the Lane is in a poor state these days.

So as long as we’re better than Wednesday that’s ok? What about trying to be better than the other 90 league clubs in this country? Or maybe even try and be better than some in Europe as well?

Yes I agree, Bramall Lane IS Sheffield United football club, it is our church, our place of worship (so to speak), we should be proud of every nut and bolt. Conversely, we should also be allowed to criticise it when we feel it doesn’t meet our modern standards. I will probably never have to use the facilities on the kop and in that respect I shouldn’t really care. But I do care, I always want this club to aspire to be one of the best, to have a better team, better pitch, better training facilities and of course…a better stadium.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Would we as fans be prepared to have at one stand/kop closed for 12-18 months and take the pain. Season tickets only covering say 2/3rds of games so that every one sees some but not all games backed up by a solid system of transferring tickets back to the club if you are not able to attend. If we as fans bought into that then the development could be much better than tinkering about. Also more expensive so dependant on owners having some real big money

If I got into the habit of not going I'd find other things to do.....and might need a big incentive to return.
Also if we moved stadium....then it would need to be something special and a cheap price to entice me back.

Think the original plan was to increase capacity to 42,000 and to be honest that should be enough.
Also love the idea of having a massive Kop, a bit like the one at Borusia Dortmund.
If we had a 2nd tier at the back of the south stand with 6K extra seats, then we could afford to give the BLUT to away fans.
Although don't think the SY Police would be keen on having 6,000 away fans to some games instead of the usual 2,700.

We'd have 4 stands, all very different with loads of character. The new renovated and expanded South stand would be the jewel in the crown and take the club into this current century with fancy back room and executive facility improving the face of our club impressing VIP visitors.

 

[s20Blade]

I think even if we wanted a new stadium is there many locations it could be?

One of the best features of the lane is the city centre proximity, pretty easy to get to from interchange/train station.

No doubt council would want it on a tram route if we was it move.

 

[reedy63]

I went in the Bramall Lane upper against Wendy rather than back of the kop.to be honest i did not like it. through the turnstile A little area to the steps to get to my seat.to be honest a very small area.MY seat on row c second up from the front row that no one was allowed to sit in. view okay but not as good as back row of the kop. after full time it took ages to get out small area everyone leaving at the same time. if they was a evacuation you have no chance of getting out within a few min I wont be going in Bramall Lane upper again. back in my seat at the back row of the kop for rest of the season.

 

[YES Blade]

If I got into the habit of not going I'd find other things to do.....and might need a big incentive to return.
Also if we moved stadium....then it would need to be something special and a cheap price to entice me back.

Think the original plan was to increase capacity to 42,000 and to be honest that should be enough.
Also love the idea of having a massive Kop, a bit like the one at Borusia Dortmund.
If we had a 2nd tier at the back of the south stand with 6K extra seats, then we could afford to give the BLUT to away fans.
Although don't think the SY Police would be keen on having 6,000 away fans to some games instead of the usual 2,700.

We'd have 4 stands, all very different with loads of character. The new renovated and expanded South stand would be the jewel in the crown and take the club into this current century with fancy back room and executive facility improving the face of our club impressing VIP visitors.

A new modern stadium would be enough to ensure fans return and also be an attraction for new fans.

If done right, it would create a feel good factor, a sense of pride for the fans and the impression that the club is moving in the right direction.

I really couldn’t see a new stadium being built and crowds not increasing. (Unless we dropped down to League Two/National League obviously)

 

[Keen Blade]

It was stupidly busy on the Kop Sunday, I went in via the turnstiles nearest to the South Stand and it took me about 15-20 minutes to go for a piss and get to my seat.

I dread to think what it would be like trying to get out during an emergency. I really wouldn’t be surprised if over the next few years the amount of tickets we are allowed to sell gets reduced on safety grounds.

I wonder if the emergency provisions re the kop allow for an escape onto the pitch ?
If not , I doubt it can empty fast enough.

 

[Sheffsteel]

A new modern stadium would be enough to ensure fans return and also be an attraction for new fans.

If done right, it would create a feel good factor, a sense of pride for the fans and the impression that the club is moving in the right direction.

I really couldn’t see a new stadium being built and crowds not increasing. (Unless we dropped down to League Two/National League obviously)

Agree if done right with plenty of forethought it could work well. For example tram links, with extra trams on match day, plenty of parking and different road systems so traffic isn’t too congested. Would need plenty of bars and food places inside the stadium too.

Might sound controversial but there’d be financial pressure to ground share with Sheff Wed, then we could be much more ambitious, make it 50K with fantastic facilities done in consultation with the council to re generate the city with extra jobs. The new stadium could have a large hotel and facilities that can generate income on non match days.

Another very controversial/ radical idea would be to that each club charges what ever it wants for a season ticket but ST holders are then able to attend matches watching the other Sheffield team for £10, assuming there are spare seats.

Eventually we’d return to the culture where some Sheffielders might support United but they go to see United one week, then watch Wednesday the week after. This would raise extra revenue and ensure we see more 40K plus gates.

 

[AnotherBlade]

Agree if done right with plenty of forethought it could work well. For example tram links, with extra trams on match day, plenty of parking and different road systems so traffic isn’t too congested. Would need plenty of bars and food places inside the stadium too.

Might sound controversial but there’d be financial pressure to ground share with Sheff Wed, then we could be much more ambitious, make it 50K with fantastic facilities done in consultation with the council to re generate the city with extra jobs. The new stadium could have a large hotel and facilities that can generate income on non match days.

Another very controversial/ radical idea would be to that each club charges what ever it wants for a season ticket but ST holders are then able to attend matches watching the other Sheffield team for £10, assuming there are spare seats.

Eventually we’d return to the culture where some Sheffielders might support United but they go to see United one week, then watch Wednesday the week after. This would raise extra revenue and ensure we see more 40K plus gates.

You should be able to get though to the Doctors from 8am! I suggest you fucking give them a ring for an appointment after posting this!!!

 

[YES Blade]

Agree if done right with plenty of forethought it could work well. For example tram links, with extra trams on match day, plenty of parking and different road systems so traffic isn’t too congested. Would need plenty of bars and food places inside the stadium too.

Might sound controversial but there’d be financial pressure to ground share with Sheff Wed, then we could be much more ambitious, make it 50K with fantastic facilities done in consultation with the council to re generate the city with extra jobs. The new stadium could have a large hotel and facilities that can generate income on non match days.

Another very controversial/ radical idea would be to that each club charges what ever it wants for a season ticket but ST holders are then able to attend matches watching the other Sheffield team for £10, assuming there are spare seats.

Eventually we’d return to the culture where some Sheffielders might support United but they go to see United one week, then watch Wednesday the week after. This would raise extra revenue and ensure we see more 40K plus gates.

Crowds at football have been steadily increasing throughout the country to the point where we are now, which is very healthy.

If we had a modern stadium with a capacity of 40k-45k, we’d fill a good percentage of it, we certainly wouldn’t need to try and attract Wednesday fans to help fill it

 

[S64 Blade]

My heart would never want us to leave the Lane, but my head says a new ground is probably the easier and smarter thing to do in the long term.

Location would be key however and I can’t think of many spots that’d be large enough. Without being way out of town.

We could rebuild on the current site I suppose, but I suspect it’s really wanted as residential.

 

[Nelson1889]

Have I missed something where we have thousands locked our every week and 10k on the season ticket waiting list? Why do we suddenly need a 42k stadium?

I'd rather have the lane full to capacity like Sunday every week than have 6-8k empty seats spread about the ground like over at Hillsborough.

We didn't even average 30k last season (admittedly the football on offer wouldn't have helped) in the Premier League. I think we'd need 4 or 5 consecutive seasons doing reasonably well in the top flight before we'd be able to fill a 42k ground which we've not done for about 5 decades.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Have I missed something where we have thousands locked our every week and 10k on the season ticket waiting list? Why do we suddenly need a 42k stadium?

I'd rather have the lane full to capacity like Sunday every week than have 6-8k empty seats spread about the ground like over at Hillsborough.

We didn't even average 30k last season (admittedly the football on offer wouldn't have helped) in the Premier League. I think we'd need 4 or 5 consecutive seasons doing reasonably well in the top flight before we'd be able to fill a 42k ground which we've not done for about 5 decades.

Our ticketing system suppresses numbers. In the championship it isn't as big a issue most games but probably puts some off jumping through hoops in the premier league it's undoubtedly going to result in smaller crowds than we could get.

 

[Nelson1889]

Our ticketing system suppresses numbers. In the championship it isn't as big a issue most games but probably puts some off jumping through hoops in the premier league it's undoubtedly going to result in smaller crowds than we could get.

I agree that our ticketing system, and ticketing website, is absolutely not fit for purpose but at the same time I don't think it's putting thousands of people off attending.

I just don't see a time where we fill a 42k stadium every other week unless we were consistently challenging the top 10 in the PL and history suggests we'll not do that without major investment which looks even less likely.

 

[Le Cynique]

Have I missed something where we have thousands locked our every week and 10k on the season ticket waiting list? Why do we suddenly need a 42k stadium?

I'd rather have the lane full to capacity like Sunday every week than have 6-8k empty seats spread about the ground like over at Hillsborough.

We didn't even average 30k last season (admittedly the football on offer wouldn't have helped) in the Premier League. I think we'd need 4 or 5 consecutive seasons doing reasonably well in the top flight before we'd be able to fill a 42k ground which we've not done for about 5 decades.

I don’t think you’ve missed something, but forward planning is essential if we want to maximise the opportunity for bringing in new fans whilst minimising disruption to ongoing operations.

I’m available as a management consultant for £1,000 per day

 

[Trigger Blade]

If it was me I would move the kop back towards Shoreham st in a new build along with the pitch. This would allow you to make the pitch a few yards longer to UEFA standards and also give you more space at the Bramall lane end to rebuild the lower tier into the upper tier in other words making one tier at the Bramall lane end. This then makes segregation much easier with away fans top to bottom with a split top to bottom, no home fans above the away fans which just encourages object to be thrown from above. No seats would be lost at that end and you could have one large concourse rather than two cramped ones.
If the kop was built to the same rake as the South stand and John St then you could fill the corners in seamlessly giving you even more useable seats.

The current Kop is built on a big pile of earth/rocks which presumably were transported in originally. Surely, a sensible starting point would be to get rid of all that and start with level ground and have a stand with concourses. Keep the outdoor bogs though, some things should remain sacrosanct

 

[Hanauer]

Have I missed something where we have thousands locked our every week and 10k on the season ticket waiting list? Why do we suddenly need a 42k stadium?

I'd rather have the lane full to capacity like Sunday every week than have 6-8k empty seats spread about the ground like over at Hillsborough.

We didn't even average 30k last season (admittedly the football on offer wouldn't have helped) in the Premier League. I think we'd need 4 or 5 consecutive seasons doing reasonably well in the top flight before we'd be able to fill a 42k ground which we've not done for about 5 decades.

The home attendance can only be about 28/29000 at present. Our average attendance last season was 1800 under capacity, the previous seasons both less than 3000 under capacity. Given a decent team, few seasons in Prem then we wouldn't be far short of needing a 42000 Stadium.

 

[Newbury Blade]

How many premier league sides do that? Blackburn when they were up gave large away allocations but other than that it's not the norm. You'd think it would be though as a lot of premier league sides easily fill away allocations of 3k

Clubs like Bournemouth with pathetic away allocations should not even be allowed in the Prem in the same way that lower down the pyramid you have to meet certain stadium criteria to be promoted. They seem to have plenty to spend on players.

 

[Bladeloyal]

The current Kop is built on a big pile of earth/rocks which presumably were transported in originally. Surely, a sensible starting point would be to get rid of all that and start with level ground and have a stand with concourses. Keep the outdoor bogs though, some things should remain sacrosanct

You can keep the infill,a new concourse can be constructed behind in the new structure need for the extra seating and cantilever roof,it's a large area of land behind the kop construction wise

 

[YES Blade]

You can keep the infill,a new concourse can be constructed behind in the new structure need for the extra seating and cantilever roof,it's a large area of land behind the kop construction wise

I think the concourse would still be limited when compared to other stadiums. Wouldn’t a Kop that size ideally need entrances at two levels rather than just a single one on each set of stairs?

Spurs and Liverpool have more than one on each set of stairs. Which makes me think we’d need more. Unless the plan would be for the current open air concourse areas to be retained?

 

[Bladeloyal]

I think the concourse would still be limited when compared to other stadiums. Wouldn’t a Kop that size ideally need entrances at two levels rather than just a single one on each set of stairs?

Spurs and Liverpool have more than one on each set of stairs. Which makes me think we’d need more. Unless the plan would be for the current open air concourse areas to be retained?

I'd leave it to the architects and engineers to work a solution but I'm sure it's all doable .

 

[Sheffsteel]

You should be able to get though to the Doctors from 8am! I suggest you fucking give them a ring for an appointment after posting this!!!

Set myself up there ha ha
Thought it might be too radical.

It’s becoming a trend where loads of PL clubs are looking to expand capacity.

Man Utd 73K to over 90K
Newcastle 52K to 70K
Chelsea 41K to 60K
Everton 39K to 52K
Villa 42K to 51K
Leeds 37K to 51K
Arsenal are looking at increasing their 60K capacity as they have a ST waiting list of 30K.

Even the likes of Crystal Palace (a smaller club than us) have now received the green light to increase from 25K to 34K

And Nottingham Forest were talking about increasing from 30K to 40K but more recently their owner is suggesting 50K would be better.

In 10 years time if Bramall Lane is ever extended to 42K, then it’s possible we might still have one of the smaller stadiums in the Premier league.

 

[S64 Blade]

The home attendance can only be about 28/29000 at present. Our average attendance last season was 1800 under capacity, the previous seasons both less than 3000 under capacity. Given a decent team, few seasons in Prem then we wouldn't be far short of needing a 42000 Stadium.

We must be losing hundreds of thousands a season in seats we are not allowed to sell, too. If Sunday was our maximum, that’s around 1,000 seats not in use. Let’s say the average price per ticket sold is £25 (it’s probably higher), that’s almost 600k a season.

In this dream world where we build a new stadium I’d personally prefer 35/36k to begin with (all things on the pitch being equal). But build it in a way where it’s easy to add another 5/6k on to the capacity, with minimal disruption (like Sunderland did and like Man City are doing/have done).

 

[NuddysGloves]

I went in the Bramall Lane upper against Wendy rather than back of the kop.to be honest i did not like it. through the turnstile A little area to the steps to get to my seat.to be honest a very small area.MY seat on row c second up from the front row that no one was allowed to sit in. view okay but not as good as back row of the kop. after full time it took ages to get out small area everyone leaving at the same time. if they was a evacuation you have no chance of getting out within a few min I wont be going in Bramall Lane upper again. back in my seat at the back row of the kop for rest of the season.

I went in BLUT for the wednesday match as well and agree with everything you said. My dad also commented whilst we were slowly queuing to get down the tight stairs to get out that it would be a nightmare if fans needed evacuating quickly but I pointed out they have a fire escape at the front of the seated area as well so I don't think that would be any more of a problem than any other stand in the ground.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The current Kop is built on a big pile of earth/rocks which presumably were transported in originally. Surely, a sensible starting point would be to get rid of all that and start with level ground and have a stand with concourses. Keep the outdoor bogs though, some things should remain sacrosanct

Think logically about this.

Your reason for levelling the site is to have a stand with a concourse.
However McCabe original bolt on design had a massive fully enclosed concourse with expanded toilet, bar and kiosk areas, all inside and fully protected.

The only advantage of flattening the site is that there would be more room under the stand for banqueting/ restaurants/ conferences etc.
However we would already have plenty of this in an expanded South stand and the John Street stand.

There is a massive negative of flattening the site and that would be that our capacity goes down to only 20,000 for at least 2 years.
Do we stop giving away fans tickets for 2 years or do we continue to give away fans 2.7K and we'll have just over 17K of our own fans at matches.
We currently have over 22K season ticket holders, so what do you say to loyal fans who have't missed a home match for decades
when they are effectively banned from the club or on a rota where occasionally they are forced to miss matches.

Going to football matches is like a drug, a habit that's hard to break
but once you break the habit of going and find other things to do.....it's harder to encourage those same fans to return.
Think it's risky to close down parts of the ground, hence why most expansions these days continue at full capacity.

Liverpool have built new extra tier stands behind their current stands with no reduction in capacity.
Man City are currently doing the same and have almost finished their new stand with no reduction on capacity.
Next year Crystal Palace are planning on building a massive new stand built behind their current stand, again no reduction in capacity.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Have I missed something where we have thousands locked our every week and 10k on the season ticket waiting list? Why do we suddenly need a 42k stadium?

I'd rather have the lane full to capacity like Sunday every week than have 6-8k empty seats spread about the ground like over at Hillsborough.

We didn't even average 30k last season (admittedly the football on offer wouldn't have helped) in the Premier League. I think we'd need 4 or 5 consecutive seasons doing reasonably well in the top flight before we'd be able to fill a 42k ground which we've not done for about 5 decades.

Some good points however

1: Do we need a 42K stadium? Think the question should be...how come so many clubs in the PL are planning for 60K to 80K capacities, even smaller clubs (Fulham, Palace, Leicester and Forest) are talking about needing 40K stadiums......where as for some reason one of the biggest cities in England is still thinking that 32K will be fine in a country with a rapidly expanding population.

2: Agree we don't want a situation like a Hillsboro with empty seats spread out
however what will happen is that the South stand upper tier will likely be fully closed for most in the Championship.
A bit like what Cardiff do and Leeds did with their big stand. Thankfully for United the South stand isn't visible on TV, so it wouldn't look as bad.

3: You say we didn't average 30K, some website show out average as 30,011 whilst others show 29,985.
So which ever you choose, it was basically 30K in probably the worse season in our entire history.
It's the only season in my 50 years watching us where pre-match our fans had zero hope, it was just a case of how many we'd lose by.

4: Another reasonable reply, however again the question should be
How can Fulham, Palace, Forest, Leicester just plod along in mid to lower positions in the Premier league and still have ambitions for a 40K capacity
where as Sheffielder's think there wouldn't ever be the same demand in Sheffield. Why are we different to all other cities?

 

[Rochdaleblade]

I agree that our ticketing system, and ticketing website, is absolutely not fit for purpose but at the same time I don't think it's putting thousands of people off attending.

I just don't see a time where we fill a 42k stadium every other week unless we were consistently challenging the top 10 in the PL and history suggests we'll not do that without major investment which looks even less likely.

You don't have to fill it every game though. At the minute loads of blades fans are not able to get tickets for some games. We could easily get 40K for big games, even if a lot of the extra would be day trippers.

 

[Balham]

The problem with rebuilding the Kop is the return on investment. Nobody is going to build a new stand purely because they feel sorry for the fans sat there or because there aren't enough seats. They have to believe that putting the money in will return more in the long run. Liverpool spent an estimated £80m upgrading and enlarging the Anfield Road stand. That added 8,000 to the capacity of Anfield. Each addtional seat will have to generate £1,000 per season for the investment to pay back over 10 years. That sort of return is only achieved if there's a significant amount of corporate seating in the mix and that, frankly, is not an option for our existing Kop.

The sensible long term option at Bramall Lane is to rebuild the Laver (South) Stand in the car park then rotate the pitch, making the rebuilt South Stand the new Kop. The existing Kop could then be rebuilt with two tiers of seats and two tiers of corporate boxes to give the returns. However, to do all that we'd probably be looking at an investment north of £100m and that would need a big increase in capacity, attendance and revenue per ticket to be viable.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The problem with rebuilding the Kop is the return on investment. Nobody is going to build a new stand purely because they feel sorry for the fans sat there or because there aren't enough seats. They have to believe that putting the money in will return more in the long run. Liverpool spent an estimated £80m upgrading and enlarging the Anfield Road stand. That added 8,000 to the capacity of Anfield. Each addtional seat will have to generate £1,000 per season for the investment to pay back over 10 years. That sort of return is only achieved if there's a significant amount of corporate seating in the mix and that, frankly, is not an option for our existing Kop.

The sensible long term option at Bramall Lane is to rebuild the Laver (South) Stand in the car park then rotate the pitch, making the rebuilt South Stand the new Kop. The existing Kop could then be rebuilt with two tiers of seats and two tiers of corporate boxes to give the returns. However, to do all that we'd probably be looking at an investment north of £100m and that would need a big increase in capacity, attendance and revenue per ticket to be viable.

Sounds too close to doing a totally brand new stadium rebuild. Surely
keeping capacity continuously over 30K would be impossible with so many stands being affected

If this happened then a stadium move would be likely. On top of stadium costs we would be losing gate receipts for 2 or 3 years and also probably pay another club extortionate rent costs. Would our fans be willing to travel to Derby etc to watch home games? Many would be put off.

Not sure where 100 mill costs come from because we’d need to build 2 brand new stands from scratch, extend the BLUT stand and change the John street stand.

The McCabe plans take the capacity up to 42K with minimal loss to the current capacity during the 18 month rebuild, think 42K is enough. Don’t think we need a brand new 50K stadium.