Stadium and facilities redevelopment post KMC

[I should coco]

Took us 45 years to get back to the verge of Europe, following the damage caused by building the new south stand to the detriment of investment in the team, and this place is full of silly burgers wanting to start the whole effing process again.

I'm sorry but everybody knows football only began in 1992 with the PL, so any of yer' so called facts from before then, are irrelevant.

We have a carefully crafted plan to sustainably finance the expansion, relying on a secure portfolio mixed funding scheme:
-The money tree
-Looking down the back of the sofas in the Copthorne
-Bunging a few million on 32 red
-Champions League riches

#spenditnow

 

[HeySethUTB]

Training ground improvements are essential before any upgrading of stadium IMO. The players spend the majority of their time at Shirecliffe not at BDTBL, some have suggested that the Stadium isn’t good enough for a team potentially in Europe and how players may not want to sign, were competing in the greatest league in the world that is enough draw even without european competition hence the reason we have Sander Berge.

Chris has eluded to the fact he shows them the training ground last, this is where the hardwork to improve personal performance happens. No point investing in a bigger jewel if the crown it sits on ain’t big enough.
UTB!

 

[Sheffsteel]

I agree. I sit on the Kop and I couldn't even care if we never upgraded the ground again, I just want to watch football. My only point is that if millions are to be spent on any stand, it surely has to be the one that's stuck in the 19th century.

Agree that should be the priority but it doesn‘t work like that....there must be a business case for any suggestion.

The big consideration is overall costs of any project plus hidden costs (like partial ground closures as it’s lost revenue).
Another big factor is “return on investment”, how much extra will we charge for the additional facilities
and how many years will it take for the investor to get his money back.

I’m often hearing the phrase “if we do the Kop then we should do it properly”, agree in normal life if you do anything then do it properly.
But if doing 90% of a job costs costs £1000
whereas doing 100% of a job costs £5000.....then I think most people here would choose to pay £1000.
Also if we do 90% of the job...then whats the effect....will we lose customers? No.

To be honest McCabe‘s expertise is property development and he’s used a firm of expert architects.
So it’s logical to believe that whatever design they came up with 6 years ago was the most beneficial for the club at that time.

Im on the Kop and think the concourse areas/ toilets are so out dated.....its not unreasonable to expect everything to be undercover
protected from the rain and wind. Also the toilets/ concourse areas need to be more specious with the pillars removed on the Kop.
The current design provides an extra 3,200 at the back with more leg room and a steeper rake, its not perfect but seems to represent the best value.

Anyhow as already stated nothing will happen with the Kop as it’s common sense to see what’s happens regards “safe standing”.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Can you show me where I said "there could be thousands more seats at the BL end" ? What I did say was more seats in south east corner which to me means the Shoreham st / Cherry st side of the ground. I did do geography at school even if it was Hinde House.

presumably there would be room for thousands at the BL side as well if not for the hotel. An initial point of yours and per your own markings on the plan.

ln any event, why have a fantasy about BL when a soulless bowl seems more to your liking?

At the end of the day, the financial side can’t be put to one side whatever anyone thinks. That is the single most important thing in the whole issue. This seasons budget looks fully accounted for, CW will want to improve in the summer, training ground appears to be an issue for him and £50m has to be found during the summer. Even at Hinde House, simple arithmetic was more important than geography. And drama.

 

[metalblade]

presumably there would be room for thousands at the BL side as well if not for the hotel. An initial point of yours and per your own markings on the plan.

ln any event, why have a fantasy about BL when a soulless bowl seems more to your liking?

At the end of the day, the financial side can’t be put to one side whatever anyone thinks. That is the single most important thing in the whole issue. This seasons budget looks fully accounted for, CW will want to improve in the summer, training ground appears to be an issue for him and £50m has to be found during the summer. Even at Hinde House, simple arithmetic was more important than geography. And drama.

Keep on misquoting people if you like it doesn't make you right, you didn't read my post right and you are now trying to muddy the waters and are back pedalling.
Where did I say a soulless bowl would be more to my liking on this thread ? You could use the search facility but I doubt you will bother, you have fucked up and you know it so there is little point carrying on this little debate unless you want to make yourself look even more stupid. Bye now 🖐

 

[LoughboroBlade]

To be honest McCabe‘s expertise is property development and he’s used a firm of expert architects.
So it’s logical to believe that whatever design they came up with 6 years ago was the most beneficial for the club at that time.

The plans for the Kop and South Stand are based on concepts drawn up 11 years ago. Some of the South Stand was designed with the World Cup bid in mind – which were ditched in the last rejig of the designs.

Sheffield United launch stadium consultation | Leisure Opportunities news

Sheffield United Football Club (SUFC) has launched a public consultation with local residents and supporters over the proposed redevelopment of the South Stand at its Bramall Lane stadium.

www.leisureopportunities.co.uk

 

[Sean Thornton]

Keep on misquoting people if you like it doesn't make you right, you didn't read my post right and you are now trying to muddy the waters and are back pedalling.
Where did I say a soulless bowl would be more to my liking on this thread ? You could use the search facility but I doubt you will bother, you have fucked up and you know it so there is little point carrying on this little debate unless you want to make yourself look even more stupid. Bye now 🖐

“I think deep down we all know the answer this is as good as it will ever get at the current stadium, to progress it is either improve or build new elsewhere”

lf you can squeeze “thousands” - based on nothing - more seats into one corner, surely you can in the other? But, as you demonstrated with your pen, the hotel is in the way of fans sitting a bus ride away from the pitch. All nonsense but not stopping the “l’m right” claim.

lt all has to be paid for At the end of the day. Short term with McCabe needing paying - stay calm - , it’s pie in the sky or shit or bust. Lets risk the seventies again. Really?

 

[Tom Bott]

Even at Hinde House, simple arithmetic was more important than geography. And drama.

Simple arithmetic is as the name suggests, comprehension of the figures that you arrive at are something completely different.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Simple arithmetic is as the name suggests, comprehension of the figures that you arrive at are something completely different.

is.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Simple arithmetic is as the name suggests, comprehension of the figures that you arrive at are something completely different.

Yes. However they aren’t “arrived at”. The bigger numbers are just to beef up the standard anti McCabe dig. I’m sure a few of his detractors will be disappointed when he’s finally paid off and gone.

 

[Espania blade]

Random thoughts after reading several posts (out of 22 pages )

We need (somehow) to increase capacity to 40,000 - with no restricted crappy views!
we also need to to improve the training facilities, ultimately to attract and improve players.

If you watched last nights game (Athletico Madrid v Liverpool), the atmosphere sounded truly intimidating, that's how BDBL should be.

Not sure where the money comes from, not my problem! but it needs to be done, if the Prince is in it for the long term it shouldn't be a problem on getting his investment back (he's bought the club on the cheap anyway) - and you should never do anything on the "cheap"
ultimately it's false economy.

Upwards and upwards, UTB

 

[Jon Bon II]

These pictures are just someone's fantasy when all said and done.
Given a blank canvas I would turn the pitch 90 degrees and only keep part of John st as the away end, demolish the South stand and build a huge single tier kop 30-40 yards further back and build 2 tier stands on Bramall lane and Shoreham st.
That is my fantasy btw before anyone starts about money tree's and any other reason why we should stand still while most other clubs would like to improve or build new.

My fantasy stadium would be a pitch surrounded by giant screens, infused with Ultra HD cameras and speakers. If you stood in the middle of the pitch, you would look round at a magnificent 60k capacity virtual reality stadium beamed onto the screens.

As a fan, you would get a virtua ticket for the virtua seat of your choice. You would watch the game on your large screen TV or your VR headset at home and the view would be from the exact position of your virtua seat in the virtua stadium. A camera would also film you and a microphone would record you. Your seat in the virtua stadium would appear empty from the pitch until you log in. After you log in, you would appear in your seat in the virtua stadium. The camera in front of you and the microphone would record your precise movements and sound, so you could stand up, sit down, jump up and down, yell, cheer, boo – and all would be replicated in the virtua stadium and be seen and heard by the players on the pitch and the virtua supporters in the virtua stadium. Multiply by 60,000 and voila. Football in the late 21st century.

Tell your grandchildren where you heard it first…

 

[Working Class Hero]

Same here mate. I'd rather put up with the 1970s shit bogs/queues than miss any of this dream-time though.



So where do 12,000 of us sit for a year (or two), while the mound is removed and a brand new stand rebuilt?
We have to do the SS first (and not sell season tickets), to create some additional capacity for the displaced Kopites.

Agree that should be the priority but it doesn‘t work like that....there must be a business case for any suggestion.

The big consideration is overall costs of any project plus hidden costs (like partial ground closures as it’s lost revenue).
Another big factor is “return on investment”, how much extra will we charge for the additional facilities
and how many years will it take for the investor to get his money back.

I’m often hearing the phrase “if we do the Kop then we should do it properly”, agree in normal life if you do anything then do it properly.
But if doing 90% of a job costs costs £1000
whereas doing 100% of a job costs £5000.....then I think most people here would choose to pay £1000.
Also if we do 90% of the job...then whats the effect....will we lose customers? No.

To be honest McCabe‘s expertise is property development and he’s used a firm of expert architects.
So it’s logical to believe that whatever design they came up with 6 years ago was the most beneficial for the club at that time.

Im on the Kop and think the concourse areas/ toilets are so out dated.....its not unreasonable to expect everything to be undercover
protected from the rain and wind. Also the toilets/ concourse areas need to be more specious with the pillars removed on the Kop.
The current design provides an extra 3,200 at the back with more leg room and a steeper rake, its not perfect but seems to represent the best value.

Anyhow as already stated nothing will happen with the Kop as it’s common sense to see what’s happens regards “safe standing”.

Just to be clear, you've both assumed I meant rip the Kop down, I think that's pointless as I said earlier in the thread.

Extend the KOP with something similar to McCabe's plans. This would be relatively simple and would still increase revenue. Do the big shiny South Stand vanity project afterwards, if we are ever established in the Prem.

 

[YES Blade]

The plans for the Kop and South Stand are based on concepts drawn up 11 years ago. Some of the South Stand was designed with the World Cup bid in mind – which were ditched in the last rejig of the designs.

Sheffield United launch stadium consultation | Leisure Opportunities news

Sheffield United Football Club (SUFC) has launched a public consultation with local residents and supporters over the proposed redevelopment of the South Stand at its Bramall Lane stadium.

www.leisureopportunities.co.uk

Affordable housing? FFS! Please tell me they've at least knocked that part on the head?

Those plans were a rush job for McCabe's World Cup bid, presumably so he could sit in the director's box with the likes of Sepp Blatter and Jack Warner whilst watching Saudi Arabia vs Cameroon. Now there aren't any time pressures to extend before the World Cup, we can take our time and do what is right for the club over the next 30 years and beyond, not the typical United job and just get it built as cheaply and easily and possible.

 

[penthouseblade]

My fantasy stadium would be a pitch surrounded by giant screens, infused with Ultra HD cameras and speakers. If you stood in the middle of the pitch, you would look round at a magnificent 60k capacity virtual reality stadium beamed onto the screens.

As a fan, you would get a virtua ticket for the virtua seat of your choice. You would watch the game on your large screen TV or your VR headset at home and the view would be from the exact position of your virtua seat in the virtua stadium. A camera would also film you and a microphone would record you. Your seat in the virtua stadium would appear empty from the pitch until you log in. After you log in, you would appear in your seat in the virtua stadium. The camera in front of you and the microphone would record your precise movements and sound, so you could stand up, sit down, jump up and down, yell, cheer, boo – and all would be replicated in the virtua stadium and be seen and heard by the players on the pitch and the virtua supporters in the virtua stadium. Multiply by 60,000 and voila. Football in the late 21st century.

Tell your grandchildren where you heard it first…

I can see that happening bizarrely, maybe not for several decades, but it is weirdly plausible!!

I read an article, over a year ago I reckon, which described technology to enable more fans to watch their team playing away from home. Let's say Utd were away at Southampton; basically the match would be filmed in VR format at St Mary's, beamed back to Bramall Lane where we would watch a virtual reality "live" version of the game on our pitch. Apparently this is being developed, no idea how far on it is!

 

[Bladesman]

In fairness to the shipping container, it’s not as bad as I feared it would be. With the matt black and club logo it’s one of the smartest shipping containers I’ve seen.

I’ve always been amazed that the suggestion there could be an unexplored bomb under the mound of the Kop is a reason given by people not to dig it out...

If there is a bomb there then setting it off would save us the cost of demolishing the KOP.

Always thinking...

 

[JohnDenver]

There’s a long history of clubs suffering on the pitch whilst developing their ground. It’s not just a simple financial trade off, but a question of an organisation focusing on two major operations in parallel. Even the temporary loss of atmosphere at Highbury whilst they rebuilt the North Bank was deemed a contributor to a slump in form.

If United embark on any of this then they need to be incredibly careful. We’re trying to establish in the Premier League, we’re building new training facilities, we’re attempting to finance the real estate. There’s a lot going on, but if the first team slips up, it all withers on the vine.

 

[Sean Thornton]

There’s a long history of clubs suffering on the pitch whilst developing their ground. It’s not just a simple financial trade off, but a question of an organisation focusing on two major operations in parallel. Even the temporary loss of atmosphere at Highbury whilst they rebuilt the North Bank was deemed a contributor to a slump in form.

If United embark on any of this then they need to be incredibly careful. We’re trying to establish in the Premier League, we’re building new training facilities, we’re attempting to finance the real estate. There’s a lot going on, but if the first team slips up, it all withers on the vine.

No!

Gerritspent.

Gerritspentnah

Gerritspentevenbeforewegerrit.

 

[Mister T]

There’s a long history of clubs suffering on the pitch whilst developing their ground. It’s not just a simple financial trade off, but a question of an organisation focusing on two major operations in parallel. Even the temporary loss of atmosphere at Highbury whilst they rebuilt the North Bank was deemed a contributor to a slump in form.

If United embark on any of this then they need to be incredibly careful. We’re trying to establish in the Premier League, we’re building new training facilities, we’re attempting to finance the real estate. There’s a lot going on, but if the first team slips up, it all withers on the vine.

I agree, team building must always come before stand building. Look at the last time we tried the opposite.

 

[mancunianblade]

For what it's worth Atalanta dismantled the Curva the day after the last game of last season and reopened the new one October 6th.

Think they played a handfull of games away first and used another stadium for the home games they had to play . They qualified for the CL last season and have maintained a high standard since. However the curva was pretty much scaffolding before so wouldn't have taken much to rip down..

Impressive feat though and the atmosphere is phenomenal

 

[metalblade]

For what it's worth Atalanta dismantled the Curva the day after the last game of last season and reopened the new one October 6th.

Think they played a handfull of games away first and used another stadium for the home games they had to play . They qualified for the CL last season and have maintained a high standard since. However the curva was pretty much scaffolding before so wouldn't have taken much to rip down..

Impressive feat though and the atmosphere is phenomenal
View attachment 72044

AHH but yer can't do dat in Sheffield pal, ah bet they din't have a UXB under their owd stand n we can't get cheap EU builders in nah cosa Brexit bastud Tories n Union wun't stand fot overtime n worra baht health n safety?

 

[mancunianblade]

AHH but yer can't do dat in Sheffield pal, ah bet they din't have a UXB under their owd stand n we can't get cheap EU builders in nah cosa Brexit bastud Tories n Union wun't stand fot overtime n worra baht health n safety?

All that building in 5 months and the two stands on the sides are listed

 

[metalblade]

All that building in 5 months and the two stands on the sides are listed

I know following Sheffield Utd tends to make the average fan a bit cautious but there is always a million reasons why we can't do summat rather than find the one reason it can be done.

 

[mancunianblade]

I know following Sheffield Utd tends to make the average fan a bit cautious but there is always a million reasons why we can't do summat rather than find the one reason it can be done.

I mean tbf arent the foundations of the kop just a big pile of muck? take some shifting wouldnt it?

 

[ReeceofBDTBL]

As much as it feels like I’ve been waiting forever to see us extend the Kop to make an intimidating wall of sound and the biggest stand by far bearing down on the rest of the stadium, Leicester haven’t expanded their ground having won the league and played in the champions league.

For that reason I’d accept waiting another year, but really hope it gets done. Not too bothered about the south stand

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

As much as it feels like I’ve been waiting forever to see us extend the Kop to make an intimidating wall of sound and the biggest stand by far bearing down on the rest of the stadium, Leicester haven’t expanded their ground having won the league and played in the champions league.

For that reason I’d accept waiting another year, but really hope it gets done. Not too bothered about the south stand

Leicester dont have two big poles in there main stand and our ground isnt brand new

 

[bromtom]

As much as it feels like I’ve been waiting forever to see us extend the Kop to make an intimidating wall of sound and the biggest stand by far bearing down on the rest of the stadium, Leicester haven’t expanded their ground having won the league and played in the champions league.

For that reason I’d accept waiting another year, but really hope it gets done. Not too bothered about the south stand

They announced they were going to expand it in 2015 and then again in April 2018, but the death of the chairman has seemingly put that on hold for now.

They're in a similar position attendance wise as us, pretty much selling out a 32K stadium, so it'll be interesting to see what they do and how long it takes if they do it before us.

 

[Radders]

I'm impressed by the rate at which this thread is growing! Who'd have thought there'd be so many opinions about ground developments. So many options, but I suppose the club has the advantage of knowing what's affordable and when.
I do feel confident though that our current board and management want to move the club forward, both on and off the field and will aim to do so without putting the club in jeopardy.
I used to be envious of clubs with mega-rich investors but those clubs are in a bubble that could burst at any time. There's a lot to be said for steady but affordable progress like we've seen over recent years. More of the same and I'll be more than 'appeh.
UTB

 

[LoughboroBlade]

They're in a similar position attendance wise as us, pretty much selling out a 32K stadium, so it'll be interesting to see what they do and how long it takes if they do it before us.

Their stadium was built I believe with potential future expansions in mind – I suspect when they do it this will be a quicker and cheaper job than our equivalent stands will be.

 

[bromtom]

Their stadium was built I believe with potential future expansions in mind – I suspect when they do it this will be a quicker and cheaper job than our equivalent stands will be.

True, it'll be interesting to see what sort of size and specification they go for though.