Squad Harmony/Wage Structure

[BushBlade]

It's rare for teams to stand still by just having a good manager.

How long do manager's stay in jobs these days?

If it's a good manager, he's likely to be snapped up by somebody else.

Ipswich found themselves in quite a rare situation with McCarthy.

The wealthy clubs can afford to go for managers that play attractive football these days so he’s out of favour. He’d be more suited to a club like us. But I suspect he’ll end up at somewhere like West Brom when they realise Darren Moore is out of his depth.

 

[Eric Cartman]

So the money doesn't matter then? You need to decide what it is you mean, your argument is all over the place.

Oh my god.

YOU NEED TO SPEND MONEY TO STAND STILL IN THIS DIVISION*

*EXCEPTIONS MAY STILL APPLY, AS THEY DID WHEN LEICESTER WON THE PREMIER LEAGUE, WHEN GREECE WON THE EUROS ETC ETC. McCarthy is one of those exceptions, a manager who's style of play gets what is required to keep his teams safe every year.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Show me the tweet where she said the manager should be picking her husband. You talk about people being thick whilst showing a distinct inability to read properly.

I'm bashing my head against a wall here.

Duffy's mrs was saying the manager was making the wrong decisions. Convenient of her to say that when her husband isn't being picked.
Maybe she meant he should be deploying Leonard instead of Evans, or Lafferty instead of Stevens? Maybe she thinks he should be going for a flat 4-4-2 with a second striker?

Sharp's mrs was subliminally saying, just after the game had finished, her bloke should be playing by quoting his goal count for Sheffield United.

Has everything got to be black and white to you? Can you not read into grey areas?

 

[LJBlade]

Oh my god.

YOU NEED TO SPEND MONEY TO STAND STILL IN THIS DIVISION*

*EXCEPTIONS MAY STILL APPLY, AS THEY DID WHEN LEICESTER WON THE PREMIER LEAGUE, WHEN GREECE WON THE EUROS ETC ETC. McCarthy is one of those exceptions, a manager who's style of play gets what is required to keep his teams safe every year.

The term 'need' isn't actually correct then is it?

A good manager can also enable a club to 'stand still' and a certain style of play will also do the same job. It sounded like a nice little catchphrase at least, I'll give you that.

Anyway, this whole argument ignores the fact that Wilder has apparently been given an above mid table budget.

 

[Eric Cartman]

You said you need money to stand still, I've given you an example of why you don't. Feel free to show me where that example is wrong

Burton Albion.
Barnsley.
Blackburn.
Hull.
Sunderland.
Wigan (a yo-yo club if ever I've seen one)
Sheffield Wednesday.
Reading
Birmingham

 

[LJBlade]

I'm bashing my head against a wall here.

Duffy's mrs was saying the manager was making the wrong decisions. Convenient of her to say that when her husband isn't being picked.
Maybe she meant he should be deploying Leonard instead of Evans, or Lafferty instead of Stevens? Maybe she thinks he should be going for a flat 4-4-2 with a second striker?

Sharp's mrs was subliminally saying, just after the game had finished, her bloke should be playing by quoting his goal count for Sheffield United.

Has everything got to be black and white to you? Can you not read into grey areas?

Things can be grey, I always find it's better if people make accurate statements. A bit like the one you made about Simon Moore signing for West Brom

Those tweets didn't actually say what you claimed but I'll let it slide as you seem to be getting a bit pent up about things.

 

[BushBlade]

The term 'need' isn't actually correct then is it?

A good manager can also enable a club to 'stand still' and a certain style of play will also do the same job. It sounded like a nice little catchphrase at least, I'll give you that.

Anyway, this whole argument ignores the fact that Wilder has apparently been given an above mid table budget.

Who says he’s been given a mid table budget?

 

[Eric Cartman]

The term 'need' isn't actually correct then is it?

A good manager can also enable a club to 'stand still' and a certain style of play will also do the same job. It sounded like a nice little catchphrase at least, I'll give you that.

Anyway, this whole argument ignores the fact that Wilder has apparently been given an above mid table budget.

 

[LJBlade]

Burton Albion.
Barnsley.
Blackburn.
Hull.
Sunderland.
Wigan (a yo-yo club if ever I've seen one)
Sheffield Wednesday.
Reading
Birmingham

You need to re-read what I said

 

[Eric Cartman]

You need to re-read what I said

Your only example of a team that doesn't spent money and still has (I'll say had, MM isn't there anymore) a relatively comfortable championship finish is Ipswich.

Brilliant. That's all for today your honour.

 

[LJBlade]

Who says he’s been given a mid table budget?

I seem to remember Wilder mentioned it but that might not be totally correct. It was discussed on here...

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/mid-table-budget.64122/

 

[TJB.]

For Christ’s sake...this old chestnut again!!
Are you a friggin goldfish? Has this not been done to death already?

We are after those players and making audacious bids to have a subsidised wage by their parent clubs.
If you don’t ask you don’t get. Should we just assume those clubs won’t take our offers and not bother?
We tried, up to now we’ve failed. But so have any other club who might be interested. The time has arrived for them to move, time is running out if the want to play, so these bids may well end up being successful.

It’s teally not rocket science.

Wilder has set the wage structure around the budget he has from the owners. He’s the manager, he lives and dies by his decisions. So no whining and bleating by some muppet with no idea what they are in about, and no experience of pro football and it’s complexities is going to make the slightest bit of difference.
Get over it for the love of all that is holy, of go and support a club that doesn’t mind flouncing he rules...like Derby..or maybe the pigs.
They don’t seem to care about wage structures and budgets after all!!

Far too much sense written here. Go try Facebook fan pages then come back to us. Thank you.

 

[LJBlade]

Your only example of a team that doesn't spent money and still has (I'll say had, MM isn't there anymore) a relatively comfortable championship finish is Ipswich.

Brilliant. That's all for today your honour.

Yep, congratulations, you are getting better at this reading lark.

Ipswich was my example. Now tell me where that example is wrong. Did they spend much money? Have they not 'stood still'?

 

[LJBlade]

View attachment 42760

Excellent reply, I assume you agree.

 

[Harrisblade]

What did she tweet? Is it now a secret?

Somewhere on here I think
https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/duffy-sharp-and-wilder.65532/unread

 

[Eric Cartman]

Yep, congratulations, you are getting better at this reading lark.

Ipswich was my example. Now tell me where that example is wrong. Did they spend much money? Have they not 'stood still'?

... I feel, utterly certain, that we have gone over this?

 

[LJBlade]

... I feel, utterly certain, that we have gone over this?

You said something about a manager and a style of play, which only served to back up my point. I can't recall you offering much else?

 

[Eric Cartman]

Far too much sense written here. Go try Facebook fan pages then come back to us. Thank you.

With all due respect to you and Grizzly it's just showing our incompetence in the transfer market if we've been wasting 3 months chasing unattainable targets because we can't afford them.

Downright fucking stupid.

 

[Eric Cartman]

You said something about a manager and a style of play, which only served to back up my point. I can't recall you offering much else?

Leicester in winning the premier league
Greece in winning the euros

Etc, etc

Football is a sport than often throws up random events

 

[LJBlade]

Leicester in winning the premier league
Greece in winning the euros

Etc, etc

Football is a sport than often throws up random events

Neither of those examples show why you NEED to spend money in this division in order to 'stand still'. Weirdly you've even offered two other examples of how you can 'stand still' in this division without spending money, completely going against your argument about the need to spend money.

If you'd said that you need to spend to move forward I'd be more inclined to agree, but you didn't. Your statement just comes across like buzz word bingo.

Again though, you seem to be ignoring that we've apparently got a mid table budget so we're spending more than half of the clubs.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Neither of those examples show why you NEED to spend money in this division in order to 'stand still'. Weirdly you've even offered two other examples of how you can 'stand still' in this division without spending money, completely going against your argument about the need to spend money.

If you'd said that you need to spend to move forward I'd be more inclined to agree, but you didn't. Your statement just comes across like buzz word bingo.

Again though, you seem to be ignoring that we've apparently got a mid table budget so we're spending more than half of the clubs.

'Apparently got a mid table budget'
That's brilliant. Shame we can't spend it because... wages.

 

[LJBlade]

'Apparently got a mid table budget'
That's brilliant. Shame we can't spend it because... wages.

The budget will include the wages we are already paying.

Do you actually know what the wage structure is?

 

[TJB.]

With all due respect to you and Grizzly it's just showing our incompetence in the transfer market if we've been wasting 3 months chasing unattainable targets because we can't afford them.

Downright fucking stupid.

I completely share your frustration in not being able to acquire players that will improve us.

But we're not in Wilder's office. We don't know his list of targets, we don't know his exact budget, we don't know how agents are moving the goalposts, we don't know the market...we know fuck all.

We saw in that documentary last season how buggered it can get with transfers and it's getting seemingly worse every year. We set a very high precedent for ourselves with finishing 10th on a small budget and there's nothing wrong with wanting to try and improve on that but it's clearly been a struggle to get the staff in.

I just think no matter how annoying it is, we can be disappointed with the club without having to slag off the management or imply that they don't know what they're doing...when in reality we're the clueless ones. They've certainly earned that respect over the last two seasons.

 

[TJB.]

Do you actually know what the wage structure is?

My point precisely. We're talking about something we know little to nothing about. All we know is that it means we've missed out on one target that we know of and has allegedly put us off others whom we've enquired about. Beyond that, again, we know fuck all.

It's annoying, but the chickens have begun to come home to roost for a few clubs of late and I'd fucking hate to see us waste cash we don't have and see our name added to that list.

 

[Blade56]

Think shirts look better without logo.....

​

 

[LJBlade]

My point precisely. We're talking about something we know little to nothing about. All we know is that it means we've missed out on one target that we know of and has allegedly put us off others whom we've enquired about. Beyond that, again, we know fuck all.

It's annoying, but the chickens have begun to come home to roost for a few clubs of late and I'd fucking hate to see us waste cash we don't have and see our name added to that list.

Exactly. Why get your knickers in a twist about something you don't understand fully.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I think you may have read my earlier post saying exactly the same thing.

Wilder wants to create a form of “ Socialism” in the dressing room where we don’t have some players on lots more money than others. It doesn’t work. It can’t work. In football as in life. You sometimes have to pay top whack to get the cream and not worry about upsetting those below.

Let me let you in to a little secret.

Footballers like bonuses.

Win bonuses.

Goal bonuses.

Promotion bonuses. Etc. Etc.

They are ACUTELY aware that having better players in the side, and paying them the going rate, helps them all to achieve their objectives. Kind of a win win situation.

Now. You can overdo this. Ozil at Arsenal. Alexis at Man U spring immediately to mind. When the wage differential is more of a chasm then a few grand a week, this is not good either. So the club / manager does have a wee bit of a balancing act to perform.

Let me let you in to another secret. Players talk !

To each other that is.

Cliques are made. Even scapegoats established within the camp.

Fans do it. So do you really think young men with boatloads of cash and plenty of time on their hands do not ??

My gut feeling is that the relative harmony we have had for 2 seasons is not quite there at this time. Players are just as able to see if the manager has “favourites” in the exact same way we are. This won’t go down well overall. Especially with those “out of favour”.

UTB

 

[robbiez666]

The whole wages thing is being portrayed as poor little us who can't compete with the wealthy clubs in the division.

I presume at least half the league is in that position.

I also presume that we can't afford the wages of players who are clearly already on higher wages than we can pay and they won't take a drop in wages to join a club which has only been in the Championship for a year and have a realistically very low prospect of getting promoted.

I also assume we probably don't pay better than clubs already established in this league. So why would a player who is a regular move sideways for the same money? Uproot their family etc?

Sometimes players want to move. There are many factors at play. However, mostly pretty black and white.

This year's excuse (because there almost always is one) of 'wages' is laughable.

 

[Harrisblade]

My gut feeling is that the relative harmony we have had for 2 seasons is not quite there at this time. Players are just as able to see if the manager has “favourites” in the exact same way we are. This won’t go down well overall. Especially with those “out of favour”.

And being "out of favour" in a struggling team is much harder to bear than not being in a winning team

 

[Jonboy60]

We are screwed. We’re entirely dependent on Wilder over-achieving, season on season. I made this point last season when I kept posting the championship clubs losses and pointing out that our owners wouldn’t be willing to lose so much each year, that they can’t afford it. And that was before their falling out was confirmed and the legal action started.

We need it sorting out, with one person in overall control and a workable plan to take us forward, not two arseholes pulling in different directions. Ideally that one person won’t be either of them but I’ve no idea how this will pan out, my gut feeling is that one of them will hang around like Mike Ashley, constantly making the manager’s job ridiculously hard, when every supporter just wants them to fuck off.

In fact I can only see two scenarios;

1. Prince wins. Puts Van Winckel as DoF, fucks Wilder off and Van Winckel appoints a continental type manager meaning Van Winckel effectively runs the club but the manager takes the shit if it goes wrong.

2. KM wins, keeps Wilder, gets involved in some new funding deal that’s exactly like the one he’s just got out of and nowt changes, just like it hasn’t in all the time he’s been in charge.

To be fair Bush, point 2 is relevant : “ and nowt changes, just like it hasn’t in all the time he’s been in charge.” The fact it hasn’t changed, means we haven’t ended up like the likes of Coventry, and the pigs.