Specific and practical solutions needed.

[shorehamview]

We all know that we're in the shit both on and off the pitch, but above "we need investment" and "we need new players" has anyone got any specific solutions to the problem? This isn't meant as a dig or a piss-take, but more of a chance to get ideas for solutions to our current woes. And by "specific and practical" I mean exactly that. "Shoot them all" might well be specific but not very practical even though it's not necessarily a bad idea.

"Get new players in" isn't very specific - who are these players and how will we afford them?

"Get new investment in - isn't that what Birch is trying to do? There can't be many wealthy idiots willing to spoff money away on a second tier club like us.

Specific and practical ideas please, and the more the merrier.

 

[Pinchy]

Monty and Elpiton out: Stock and Wellens in. Should be cost neutral and would infinitely increase the quality of the team. In fact the first proposition alone would do that!

 

[shorehamview]

Monty and Elpiton out: Stock and Wellens in. Should be cost neutral and would infinitely increase the quality of the team. In fact the first proposition alone would do that!

So, considering that they have both signed new contracts, where and how do you get Monty and Quinn out? Who will pay for them? Will they want to go? How do we pay for Stock and Wellens?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

The only short term practical solution is that McCabe needs to provide funds in the form of a loan to the club. Otherwise this next transfer window will sail by without us strengthening.

 

[Foxy]

Monty and Elpiton out: Stock and Wellens in. Should be cost neutral and would infinitely increase the quality of the team. In fact the first proposition alone would do that!

I assume by Elpiton you mean Leon Britton? as he was the main culprit of that yesterday.

Back to the original question, we must get a settled side, give then support and work hard at getting out of the mess. They need to do something to get the players out of their current moods, we need some of that infamous man-management we've had in the past.... to create an us against the world attitude. Not an us against the fans and each other.

 

[Pinchy]

I assume by Elpiton you mean Leon Britton? as he was the main culprit of that yesterday.

Back to the original question, we must get a settled side, give then support and work hard at getting out of the mess. They need to do something to get the players out of their current moods, we need some of that infamous man-management we've had in the past.... to create an us against the world attitude. Not an us against the fans and each other.

When did ineptitude become a mood? Your commitment to mediocrity knows no limit, does it Foxy?

 

[Foxy]

When did ineptitude become a mood? Your commitment to mediocrity knows no limit, does it Foxy?

I never said anything about the players quality.

However mediocre they may be, they aren't helped in the slightest by a feeling sorry for themselves, blaming each other and getting upset with the abuse from the fans.

Sadly, I feel you may pre-decide the meaning of any of my posts in the same way you seem to a players performance before he's entered the pitch.

 

[Pinchy]

So, considering that they have both signed new contracts, where and how do you get Monty and Quinn out? Who will pay for them? Will they want to go? How do we pay for Stock and Wellens?

You asked for specific and practical ideas, SV. Did you only want ones that you agree with? If so, you might have said.

 

[cooperblade]

Monty and Elpiton out: Stock and Wellens in. Should be cost neutral and would infinitely increase the quality of the team. In fact the first proposition alone would do that!

Donny seen unwilling to offer Stock a contract (or one he's happy to sign anyway) due to his continuing injury problems. Surely we don't need another 20 game a season man? Especially one who has only played well under one manager.

 

[shorehamview]

You asked for specific and practical ideas, SV. Did you only want ones that you agree with? If so, you might have said.

No, if we can get better in then let's get them. I just wonder who will be prepared to buy players that are in a position of strength when it comes to negotiations because they are sitting tight on nice long contracts. We'll struggle to get rid of any player on a long contract. I'd also look at getting in a permanent replacement for Morgan but there's no way we'll be able to get rid of him now. Your idea is very specific and it's not a bad one, i just don't think that it's practical in as much as we'd struggle to find takers.

I'd like to see Ryan France shipped out, but there's nobody who will take a knackered player and he's not going to lose out on the money he's getting paid. Paying him off isn't practical, and nor is rendering him down for glue, which is my preferred option.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Monty and Elpiton out: Stock and Wellens in. Should be cost neutral and would infinitely increase the quality of the team. In fact the first proposition alone would do that!

If monty and Quinn are so shit how will it be cost neutral to bring in stock and wellens? Wellens i would guess will cost upwards of a million, not sure about stock, but i don't see any clubs offering 7 figure sums for quinny do you?

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Our players should grow some balls and have the desire to win everything, every challenge, every loose ball, every tackle, every header, every match.

Sod new players - won't get any anyway except loanees, sod investment, when it comes is when it gets here.

The players we have now are better than they are at the moment and should grow a pair and stop taking the piss!

 

[mickle-blade]

Personally I don't think there was anything wrong with appointing Speed. Eventually he will do good job.
The saddest thing for me is that we do not need a massive investment in decent players to make a difference.
The players are out there.
Other clubs ( of lesser stature) manage to find them. Why can't we ?

 

[SteelCity Blade]

I agree with shoreham. People need to start coming up with sensible solutions that get to the point, rather than making broad sweeping statements that just tell everyone what they already know. Most importantly the manager and his staff need to come up with these but it never hurts for fans to get a message across. My take on things.....

For a start McCabe (not Birch) needs to come out and speak to supporters. I'm not suggesting an official statement or anything like that, just something to inspire a glimmer of hope and confidence that we are trying to fix the situation. At the moment it just seems as if heads are buried in the sand and no one is coming out with a show of strength and support for the players and manager. Its as if its just being left to rack and ruin with Speed told to just get on with the job best he can. People simply want to know what is happening and get some idea of what Speed is going to be allowed to do in January (if anything). Its not just the defeats that are making people impatient, its also the fact that no one has a clue what is going on behind the scenes, what support Speed has to call on or even what direction we are headed in. Its all shoulder shrugging.....guidance is needed!

As for the playing side, the lack of balance in midfield needs to be addressed. We need at least two players with physical presence and/or attacking instincts. We would find that the PERMANENT signing of these sorts of players would take a great deal of pressure off the defence as we would maintain possession further up the pitch and the forwards would be presented with better goal scoring opportunities more often. This is the first area I would look to improve as I think it would stimulate improvement in others.

Regarding Ched Evans.....play him or sell him (if you can). There is fuck all point having a £3m striker on massive wages sat on the bench! You either have to show faith in him and hope he comes good with regular games; or get rid of him and write it off as a loss before any more money goes down the shitter. While he's here I would be starting him. If he's ever going to improve at all and completely surprise us it wont be in the dugout. In all fairness to him, he's been given a lot of flack after coming on yesterday and I thought that was the only time we ever looked like scoring. He actually got into good positions twice and managed a couple of shots elsewhere so probably did more than Cresswell managed for the entire games.

The sooner we can get Henderson back the better. People can bang on about his disciplinary record all they want and try to suggest that he's a thug.....but that doesnt take away from the fact that we look completely toothless without him. His strength and aerial threat take a huge burden from the shoulders of our other forwards and he is better than anything we are putting out on the field at the moment. Whatever needs to be done with him get it done.....give him miracle pills, put him in an oxygen tank.....whatever! Just get him back because we're desperate!

We tried reverting back to 4-4-2 yesterday and it didnt make a blind bit of difference, we still had the exact same problems. Monty and Britts also looked really stretched as a two in the centre of the park despite the fact that I thought Britton worked very hard. If we're going to revert back to this formation we need to select players that are comfortable playing in that shape. Neither Britton or Ertl at the back looked comfortable. As for the strikers.....I like Cresswell but its about time he spent some time on the bench, he's been way short of his best this season and games are just bypassing him. If need be give a youngster (perhaps Slew) a run. What harm could it do?!

All we can do is keep trying little things to turn the tide.....but it needs to be thought out and specific to our needs.

 

[Pinchy]

Donny seen unwilling to offer Stock a contract (or one he's happy to sign anyway) due to his continuing injury problems. Surely we don't need another 20 game a season man? Especially one who has only played well under one manager.

Yes, lets stick with Monty who can play badly 46 times a season and has been consistently useless under a number of managers.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 PM ----------

If monty and Quinn are so shit how will it be cost neutral to bring in stock and wellens? Wellens i would guess will cost upwards of a million, not sure about stock, but i don't see any clubs offering 7 figure sums for quinny do you?

Stock will be on a free shortly. Wellens is not a regular starter. Elpiton and The Maestro [in particular - £14000 a week for a complete numpty for God's sake!] are on wages hugely out of proportion to their ability.

 

[shorehamview]

Yes, lets stick with Monty who can play badly 46 times a season and has been consistently useless under a number of managers.

Partly I agree with you in that if we can get better players then let's get them. The key word in that is "if". Monty isn't the best midfielder in the country - far from it. However until we can afford better then he's going to stay. Personally I like Monty, but I'd happily accept a better player in his place. How do we get this player?

 

[beightonblade]

The whole ethos at BDTBL needs changing.... we are a club that is going no where except downwards.
Attract quality players to BDTBL even if we had the money is nigh on impossible, and can yer blame em ? Enough's enough and I think a lot of Blades will show there feelings by giving BDTBL a miss joining the 1000's that already do.

What a shame !

 

[shorehamview]

Stock will be on a free shortly. Wellens is not a regular starter. Elpiton and The Maestro [in particular - £14000 a week for a complete numpty for God's sake!] are on wages hugely out of proportion to their ability.

While Monty and Quinn are on such salaries why would they want to leave, and who would match the money if they did want to go?

 

[bricktop]

During yesterdays half-time post-morten at the back of the kop, i raised a good point.

I said that a relegation might not be a bad thing, it would give us the chance of getting rid of the deadwood, and could bring in a new manager and a whole new approach.

I also think we should be buying the young, better players from the lower leagues with potential to do well, and potential resale value as well

 

[Highbury_Blade]

During yesterdays half-time post-morten at the back of the kop, i raised a good point.

I said that a relegation might not be a bad thing, it would give us the chance of getting rid of the deadwood, and could bring in a new manager and a whole new approach.

I also think we should be buying the young, better players from the lower leagues with potential to do well, and potential resale value as well

How would getting relegated give us a chance of getting rid of the deadwood? THe only players people will want to buy off us our the ones that we'll be wanting to keep.

Who'll want to buy Ched, Cresswell, Quinn, France, Taylor....?

 

[bricktop]

Relegation would give us the chance to rebuild, get relegated and have a good season and go back up at the first attempt and we will have broken the downward spiral and will be moving on up once again

 

[Wards]

Who are the biggest earners? I'm guessing Ched is on a wedge and whilst I still think he could be a good asset for us maybe allowing him to go out on loan and save the wages to fund a couple of loans till January?

 

[lenners]

Who are the biggest earners? I'm guessing Ched is on a wedge and whilst I still think he could be a good asset for us maybe allowing him to go out on loan and save the wages to fund a couple of loans till January?

Who is going to take Evans on those wages?

 

[Guesty]

If we are going to persist with Evans, then it has to be drilled into him that he gets into the box and generally goes where there is likely to be a goalscoring opportunity. Did anyone else yesterday when he went for the short corner, and then just spent ages hanging out on the wing instead of busting a gut to get into the middle? Baffling, from a striker.

 

[alcoblade]

If we are going to persist with evans, then it has to be drilled into him that he gets into the box and generally goes where there is likely to be a goalscoring opportunity. Did anyone else yesterday when he went for the short corner, and then just spent ages hanging out on the wing instead of busting a gut to get into the middle? Baffling, from a striker.

Yep, picked up on that yesterday. Time and again he hides. No doubt due to loss of confidence. Sadly, the loss of confidence comes with basic lack of footballing ability.

Back to the OT, the only practical solution I can see is to buy players, IF there's any money. We need a center half, a middy and a striker. If we could only get one, it would have to be a striker. I'd try buying out Ched's contract to free up some resource. He might take the chance to get out of here.

UTB

 

[DuncDisorderly]

Specific and practical ideas please, and the more the merrier.

I think we've all given up the idea of play-offs, so the target has changed to achieving 52 points which should be enough for us to stay up. Once we get there then we can all forget this season quickly and re-group in the summer around squad changes to get more of what we need to play the style Speedo wants.

From my viewpoint, there is a series of judgements to be made around one simple question. Are the players good enough to get the club to safety?

If they are in general (my view) then surely, apart from replacing Morgs and an option to freshen the forwards (still not really seen the effect of Andy Reid in getting some service to them), what is the point in rushing to loan in players or buy in January? What kind of quality is available, in any sense, that we can suddenly add to make a difference.

If they aren't good enough, and the likelihood of being able to sell players in January will only involve the ones we want to keep, then KevMc has little option but to open the wallet. But bringing in 4 or 5 could have a negative result as it nearly was in our last promotion season for example. We will see Hendo back soon, and possibly Willo, so for me the priority would be get everyone fit and playing this month, someone to replace Morgs (a mouthy, combative centre half) and keep battling untill our luck turns.

I would be tempted to play a straight 4-4-2, as the 4-5-1/4-3-3 is too defensive, but in that, is failing to give us the defensive cover that we need anyway. No point playing it tight and trying to nick a goal when the opposition can evade our efforts to defend and score as they choose anyway. I dont think we have a lot of choices in a 4-4-2 and I understand why Speed has stuck with the other formation, but we have to start scoring, and giving ourselves a chance.

If I were KevMc, I might reluctantly go to my cheque book if we are making no progress at all, but I'd be mindful of the general lack of quality of what we can typically buy in January.

Roy Keane was in a worse position that this last year, survived and regrouped, and that, in my view is the sensible thing to aim for. Roll on 52 pts and all change in the summer...

 

[alcoblade]

I think we've all given up the idea of play-offs, so the target has changed to achieving 52 points which should be enough for us to stay up. Once we get there then we can all forget this season quickly and re-group in the summer around squad changes to get more of what we need to play the style Speedo wants.

From my viewpoint, there is a series of judgements to be made around one simple question. Are the players good enough to get the club to safety?

If they are in general (my view) then surely, apart from replacing Morgs and an option to freshen the forwards (still not really seen the effect of Andy Reid in getting some service to them), what is the point in rushing to loan in players or buy in January? What kind of quality is available, in any sense, that we can suddenly add to make a difference.

If they aren't good enough, and the likelihood of being able to sell players in January will only involve the ones we want to keep, then KevMc has little option but to open the wallet. But bringing in 4 or 5 could have a negative result as it nearly was in our last promotion season for example. We will see Hendo back soon, and possibly Willo, so for me the priority would be get everyone fit and playing this month, someone to replace Morgs (a mouthy, combative centre half) and keep battling untill our luck turns.

I would be tempted to play a straight 4-4-2, as the 4-5-1/4-3-3 is too defensive, but in that, is failing to give us the defensive cover that we need anyway. No point playing it tight and trying to nick a goal when the opposition can evade our efforts to defend and score as they choose anyway. I dont think we have a lot of choices in a 4-4-2 and I understand why Speed has stuck with the other formation, but we have to start scoring, and giving ourselves a chance.

If I were KevMc, I might reluctantly go to my cheque book if we are making no progress at all, but I'd be mindful of the general lack of quality of what we can typically buy in January.

Roy Keane was in a worse position that this last year, survived and regrouped, and that, in my view is the sensible thing to aim for. Roll on 52 pts and all change in the summer...

Good post Dunc. I think most of our players are good enough to play in a mid table championship side. What we lack is that something extra, the spark. Reid may (temporarily) fill the midfield hole. I'd be stunned and delighted to see Willo again. We need a striker. And given the loss of Morgs, a center half.

I think the current crop of forwards will see us relegated. Both Cresswell and Boggy could partner a quick man. By themselves they're not the men. Evans is just a contract expiry away from League 2 football. The return of Henderson may offer something different, but it's a big risk.

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

Relegation would give us the chance to rebuild, get relegated and have a good season and go back up at the first attempt and we will have broken the downward spiral and will be moving on up once again

A difference between relegation and staying up is that the wages of the likes of Simonsen, Morgan, Monty, Quinn, Britton, Cresswell, Henderson and Evans will make up an even bigger part of the wage budget, leaving even less to build a new squad with. I can't see us getting rid of any of them with the terms I guess they must be on.

Yes, we do need a big clear out, but it's still vital that we stay up.

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

Evans is just a contract expiry away from League 2 football. UTB

The only problem I have with this is everybody said the same about Billy Sharp.
Somehow we seem to put too much pressure on ths type of potentially talismanic player, it's baffling.

 

[alcoblade]

The only problem I have with this is everybody said the same about Billy Sharp.
Somehow we seem to put too much pressure on ths type of potentially talismanic player, it's baffling.

But Sharp had 10 times (probably literally) as many goals under his belt than Evans. We witnessed a drop in form and the only doubt was over his ability to step up. Evans has never done it, barring what amounts to a flash in the pan. He's not failing under pressure. He's just rubbish. Surely a year and a half of rock bottom performances confirms this?

I recognise my obsession BTW D), but the serious point is that I'm concerned many, including those within the club, could allow themselves to be fooled that he's an answer.


UTB