So Mr Manager

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Maidenhead

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In the last 4 seasons (prior to this one) we had 2 promotions, 1 credible position the championship and 1 very very credible position in the Premier League. He's won manager of the year once, came second in another season and had numerous accolades along the way.

This season does not wipe that out. We would be fucking idiots to not see how he did in the first couple of months of next season.
Not only that but Marvel the Magician would struggle to keep us up with the disparity in budgets.

Every signing we make has to be a gamble because we can't afford the finished articles, and a gamble is just that!!! Some will work but most won't, that's why they're gambles.

Chris has been working with two hands tied behind his back because of budget constraints and whoever is brought in to replace him will have to manage exactly the same scenario.

I can't think of anyone one more successful or more experienced than Chris in doing this over an extended period of time, all the way back to Halifax Town.

I therefore can't think of anyone better qualified to take over the reigns.

I'm absolutely certain in my mind that if CW/AK were competing on a financially level playing field they would be near the front of the race, but the reality is they're not on a level field and that as a club we never will be in that situation.

Continually losing by one goal must be completely disheartening for the players and for the management (as well as the fans) but nevertheless I see a team that my be out of it's depth but it has never stopped trying and none of the players or management deserve the despicable abuse that has been flying about from from so called "fans".

The reality is that we can't compete at the top and we need to accept that last season was exceptional, and that this one represents the norm for a club in our financial position.

Such is life.

Roll on August and hopefully pre match pub meets and we go again.
 

Houso

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Not only that but Marvel the Magician would struggle to keep us up with the disparity in budgets.

Every signing we make has to be a gamble because we can't afford the finished articles, and a gamble is just that!!! Some will work but most won't, that's why they're gambles.

Chris has been working with two hands tied behind his back because of budget constraints and whoever is brought in to replace him will have to manage exactly the same scenario.

I can't think of anyone one more successful or more experienced than Chris in doing this over an extended period of time, all the way back to Halifax Town.

I therefore can't think of anyone better qualified to take over the reigns.

I'm absolutely certain in my mind that if CW/AK were competing on a financially level playing field they would be near the front of the race, but the reality is they're not on a level field and that as a club we never will be in that situation.

Continually losing by one goal must be completely disheartening for the players and for the management (as well as the fans) but nevertheless I see a team that my be out of it's depth but it has never stopped trying and none of the players or management deserve the despicable abuse that has been flying about from from so called "fans".

The reality is that we can't compete at the top and we need to accept that last season was exceptional and that this one represents the norm for a club in our financial position.

Such is life.

Roll on August and hopefully pre match pub meets and we go again.
I agree with the majority of that, but I think there is also fault to be found in his approach to transfers this season.
1) we didn't need another left back in Lowe (not that I'm slagging the player off)
2) we didn't need to sign Brewster (again, I think he'll be a really big player for us next season)
3) he didn't sign a midfielder when we it was clear we needed some creativity and match winning skill in there (instead spending so much on a striker I'm not sure we needed)
4) we overspent on Rammers (though I'm not writing the lad off)
5) as someone has said, we didn't sort out the problem that was Jack being injured and instead stuck with Robinson
6) I personally think we should have shipped out Lunny before the start of this season

There are perhaps another couple of errors too that don't come to mind, but hey ho, we are where we are.

Ultimately I think he's been equally let down by huge injuries, players dropping so out of form it's been painful and some bad decisions from officials that contributed to awful form being compounded by bad results.

I'm disappointed by his interview in the week, but I still have faith in the man (and Knilly). Wednesdayites are desperate for us to sack him, and that tells you everything.
 

cc1

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Being angry that your team played pathetically and lost its 20th game out of 25 makes you a self entitled clown?

What did you do? Stand in front of the TV and applaud them off?
Well, I had a sense of fucking proportion for a start.
 

cc1

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So you thought that was an ok performance?
Hang on, where have i said that?

I questioned a posters comments that suggested losing to fulham was an embarrassment, which it isn't, and if you take premier league history into consideration, they could easily class losing to us as an embarrassing blemish in a long history at the top level.

Dont try to twist the argument to suit your agenda.
 

Revolution

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Hang on, where have i said that?

I questioned a posters comments that suggested losing to fulham was an embarrassment, which it isn't, and if you take premier league history into consideration, they could easily class losing to us as an embarrassing blemish in a long history at the top level.

Dont try to twist the argument to suit your agenda.
It was an embarrassment in my book. Our performance and tactics were embarrassing.

but then again the manager and many of the players are going through the motions so what can we expect?
 

Revolution

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You actually think CW is going through the motions? Wtf does that even mean??

Drivel cliche bollox
He’s not addressing the serious problems the formation is causing us and trotting out the same line up. That’s one way he’s going through the motions. No innovation at all.

he’s doing what I used to say he never did. He’s sitting there and losing.
 

Maidenhead

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I agree with the majority of that, but I think there is also fault to be found in his approach to transfers this season.
1) we didn't need another left back in Lowe (not that I'm slagging the player off)
2) we didn't need to sign Brewster (again, I think he'll be a really big player for us next season)
3) he didn't sign a midfielder when we it was clear we needed some creativity and match winning skill in there (instead spending so much on a striker I'm not sure we needed)
4) we overspent on Rammers (though I'm not writing the lad off)
5) as someone has said, we didn't sort out the problem that was Jack being injured and instead stuck with Robinson
6) I personally think we should have shipped out Lunny before the start of this season

There are perhaps another couple of errors too that don't come to mind, but hey ho, we are where we are.

Ultimately I think he's been equally let down by huge injuries, players dropping so out of form it's been painful and some bad decisions from officials that contributed to awful form being compounded by bad results.

I'm disappointed by his interview in the week, but I still have faith in the man (and Knilly). Wednesdayites are desperate for us to sack him, and that tells you everything.
In a perfect world I agree with you but,
1) Didn't NEED to sign Lowe but with a longer term view if a young player with the right potential is available at the right price then it makes sense not to pass up the opportunity, especially when the fees and wages are miniscule in relation to the overall picture.
2) We needed goals (and still do). Brewster was one of those gambles I'm talking about. If he had provided a few goals then he would have been the signing of the century, Fine margins and all that, but I can't think of a better gamble for the money and I don't remember much dissent on here here when Brewster signed.
3)This one I completely agree, except that I think we did need a striker as well. I'm sure that there were midfield options in the plan but ultimately the budget scuppered them.
4) We needed a keeper of our own. I'd been saying that for three years. Relying on loans to fill one of the most important positions in the team is to my way of thinking a very short term answer to a long term issue. Is Rammers the right answer? I agree that the jury is still out but he is English and has been a long standing choice for England through the age groups so he must have something about him, and being English adds a substantial premium to his value, particularly if he goes on to be successful.
5) The big error, and the most damaging one to our chances this season.
6) We both know that we are dreadfully light in midfield, and we also both know that you can't just "ship out" players when you want to. In an ideal world I would agree with you but Lundstram has a contract and he is quite entitled to expect it to be fulfilled. Given the long term injury to Berege I'm actually quite glad that Lunny is still here or our hole could be a whole lot deeper than it already is.

We've been here before (1976) but with Wilder in charge I don't expect to see the same continuing downward spiral as last time.

UTB
 

Maidenhead

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He’s not addressing the serious problems the formation is causing us and trotting out the same line up. That’s one way he’s going through the motions. No innovation at all.

he’s doing what I used to say he never did. He’s sitting there and losing.
With the formation he plays we are generally always in the game and losing by small margins.

Would you be happier if he played about with the formation and lost by three or four every week?

We have a pool of about 15 fit and experienced players and there's only so much that you can do with that.

It's a numbers game for us and the bottom line is that we don't have enough numbers!
 

finlaytheblade

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We’re only in the premier league because of him. Let’s face facts, these players are LG1/Champ level & we’re learning the hard way. Instead of blaming wilder he should be gaining extra recognition for how he got us up and performing last season. Show a bit of loyalty ffs.
He's made mistakes I think he would agree with that,unfortunately everything and I mean everything has bit us on the bum this season.
still back Wilder to get us going again next season and if he's here next season then I think the prince feels the same way too.
 

Revolution

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With the formation he plays we are generally always in the game and losing by small margins.

Would you be happier if he played about with the formation and lost by three or four every week?

We have a pool of about 15 fit and experienced players and there's only so much that you can do with that.

It's a numbers game for us and the bottom line is that we don't have enough numbers!
As the Tufty club pod pointed out, we are not really in these games. They are more often than not comfortable 1-0 or 2-1 wins. Chelsea and Arsenal were good examples. We never looked like taking a point. So it was last night.

20 defeats in 25. I’d like him to try something else. Yes, we might get hammered, but isn’t it worth a try?
 

Maidenhead

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As the Tufty club pod pointed out, we are not really in these games. They are more often than not comfortable 1-0 or 2-1 wins. Chelsea and Arsenal were good examples. We never looked like taking a point. So it was last night.

20 defeats in 25. I’d like him to try something else. Yes, we might get hammered, but isn’t it worth a try?
Genuine question, what do you think the benefits would be in asking our players to go out and play a completely different way to that they have been playing for the last four years with a good degree of success.

Going out and changing things for the sake of it, and then potentially getting hammered in the process seems to be totally counter productive in the long term to me.
 

Revolution

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Genuine question, what do you think the benefits would be in asking our players to go out and play a completely different way to that they have been playing for the last four years with a good degree of success.

Going out and changing things for the sake of it, and then potentially getting hammered in the process seems to be totally counter productive in the long term to me.

Two benefits:

- we have to some extent been sussed out. We are pressed a lot more than last season down the flanks. It is useful to have a plan B, another system.

- some players might be better in a new system. To give just one example, Burke isn’t a good striker but might be a good winger.

I do not see what we have to lose.

Oh, another point. We would need one less centre back with 4-4-2. A good thing at present.
 

Maidenhead

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Two benefits:

- we have to some extent been sussed out. We are pressed a lot more than last season down the flanks. It is useful to have a plan B, another system.

- some players might be better in a new system. To give just one example, Burke isn’t a good striker but might be a good winger.
I understand where you're coming from but I don't agree with you.

If you start changing systems to accommodate players then in my view you're stuffed, and the chances are you will be.

We have plenty of plans. How many times during a game do we change formations?

It's not plans that we're short of, it's competent personnel.

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree, enjoy the rest of your weekend.

UTB
 

HeySethUTB

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We talk about fine margins but there’s nothing fine about spending £23 million pound, nothing smart about gambling that sort of money and then moaning that we don’t have any. Makes no sense. We don’t have any money, so i tell you what I’m going to gamble £23 million of it. Let’s say Brewster go’s on the score a shed load of goals, starts attracting attention, Liverpool get involved he’s gone. If not we’re stuck with the the transfer business equivalent of Andy Carroll, stupid transfer in my eyes and (with the luxury of hindsight) he’s offered nothing we’d have been better off signing a defender to cover JOC and a creative midfielder, because we have coped 95% of this season using the tried and tested strikers of old.

£5 million bought us a player in Burke that’s been far more effective, I would call that a sensible gamble if the people in charge really believed we had no money.
 

blades14

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We talk about fine margins but there’s nothing fine about spending £23 million pound, nothing smart about gambling that sort of money and then moaning that we don’t have any. Makes no sense. We don’t have any money, so i tell you what I’m going to gamble £23 million of it. Let’s say Brewster go’s on the score a shed load of goals, starts attracting attention, Liverpool get involved he’s gone. If not we’re stuck with the the transfer business equivalent of Andy Carroll, stupid transfer in my eyes and (with the luxury of hindsight) he’s offered nothing we’d have been better off signing a defender to cover JOC and a creative midfielder.

£5 million bought us a player in Burke that’s been far more effective, I would call that a sensible gamble if the people in charge really believed we had no money.
We didnt pay for Burke
 

HeySethUTB

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Transfermarkt has a fee going to WBA but not a fee coming our way for Robinson. Yes it says it says Hovis on the bus but it doesn’t sell it but In any event only goes onto justifying my point further.

B6DE12D8-4B8D-4096-8BCC-E4DDC6B1585C.jpeg
 

Weasel

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If you start changing systems to accommodate players then in my view you're stuffed, and the chances are you will be.

Whereas my personal opinion is that a good manager of people (in whatever career the management is in) is there to maximise the performance levels and potential of the personnel that they have at their disposal at all times, which will sometimes mean having to change tactics, thinking, or original plans, or in this case the formation to suit the players he currently has available.

The formation we use should always be the best fit for the players that we have avaliable and not the other way around.

If you stick with a formation that doesnt suit the players you have, you get inferior performance and results reflect that. David Weir had a sound formation plan but didn't have the players to do it with. He got the sack.
 

Revolution

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It's not plans that we're short of, it's competent personnel.
Whereas my personal opinion is that a good manager of people (in whatever career the management is in) is there to maximise the pefrormance levels and potential of the personnel that they have at their disposal, which will sometimes mean changing tactics or in this case formation to suit the players he has available.

The formation should be the best fit for the players that we currently have avaliable and not the other way around.

If you stick with a formation that doesnt suit the players you have, you get inferior performance and results reflect that. David Weir had a sound formation plan but didn't have the players to do it with. He got the sack.

Yep. Focus on what the players can do, rather than try and make them do something they cannot do.
 

Maidenhead

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Whereas my personal opinion is that a good manager of people (in whatever career the management is in) is there to maximise the performance levels and potential of the personnel that they have at their disposal at all times, which will sometimes mean having to change tactics, thinking, or original plans, or in this case the formation to suit the players he currently has available.

The formation should be the best fit for the players that we currently have avaliable and not the other way around.

If you stick with a formation that doesnt suit the players you have, you get inferior performance and results reflect that. David Weir had a sound formation plan but didn't have the players to do it with. He got the sack.
Whereas my view is that you should buy players that fit your system, OR provide something different as an alternative when needed.

I don't believe the answer is to buy so many players that don't fit your default plan that you are then forced to amend your plan to fit the players.

We change our system many times within games and sometimes it works, but this season in particular more often it doesn't.

I still firmly believe that our issues lie with our budget and not with the management team.

The problem is that only one of those things can be changed, and even by doing that there are no guarantees of improvement.

What we don't want is another slide down the leagues and by changing the whole structure of the club that becomes a real possibility, whereas with Wilder and Knill in charge I don't think it is.
 

Weasel

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Absolutely you should bring in staff (or players in this instance) that suit your planning or formation long term.

And we seemingly agree that you need to be able to provide something different as an alternative when needed. We are at that stage now and have been for some time. We can't change the staff available now until the summer, so what does that leave left that a proactive management team can change....

Unfortunately CW and co don't seem to want to move away from a starting formation that is clear to most of us, isn't fit for purpose for whatever reasons at this moment in time. Inflexible thinking and it is starting to come across as pure stubbornness on his part. And it's not always about changing things around during games or situations when things are going badly. How about having a different tactic from the start of the battle?

Time for him to change, or it will soon be time for others to change the situation, one way or another.
 

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