Sitting back at 1 nil

[Champagneblade]

A lot has been.made of the failure to bring in another ( or different) defender. The bigger failure was not bringing in another reliable, robust central midfield player. Relying on Peck, Shacks, Davies, Vini, HC was always too big a gamble imo. I'd have been concluding that most of them (the exception being of HC and Souza) are unreliable and would not be relying on Peck three games a week (due to his age and the long season). Peck performing above all reasonable expectations has covered this issue up. I'm not sure what I'd have done except attempt to pack the middle of the park with four or five players. Maybe a big lad with some pace off him up front.

Just how many players are you expecting us to carry?

He bought in Choudhury. He bought in Brereton-Diaz, which in turn freed up Hamer to play midfield centrally if required.

What quality central midfielder would be joining us to not make the matchday squad?

We’ve also already exceeded the loan limit.

I just think it’s an unrealistic expectation for the club to carry so many players and also for the player to come knowing when we already have Hamer, Souza, Peck, Choudhury, O’Hare, Davies and Shackleton who can all play midfield centrally.

 

[Champagneblade]

He'd already made it to 87 minutes, so.....

77 minutes. We then didn’t risk him for the remaining 20 minutes as we probably saw that as putting him on the red zone.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

We missed Souza badly tonight.

They were a very well coached team, and had a good style of play. With a good CF they would have really hurt us.

I don't think we chose to sit back, we weren't given that option.

I think we are a very effective team generally, who take the chances we create and defend well, and have a very good GK. We have struggled to dictate games since Souttar got injured.

Draw was fair tonight, they played well. They'll give Burnley and Leeds a game too.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Just how many players are you expecting us to carry?

He bought in Choudhury. He bought in Brereton-Diaz, which in turn freed up Hamer to play midfield centrally if required.

What quality central midfielder would be joining us to not make the matchday squad?

We’ve also already exceeded the loan limit.

I just think it’s an unrealistic expectation for the club to carry so many players and also for the player to come knowing when we already have Hamer, Souza, Peck, Choudhury, O’Hare, Davies and Shackleton who can all play midfield centrally.

We replaced one for one in January (Choudhary for Arblaster). T Davies obviously can't be relied upon, the same with Shacks who has had multiple injuries since signing. Nobody expected this output from Peck which has saved us tbh.

We were always one light if we see Hamer as a winger. If not, we should've recruited another left winger and have pushed Hamer inside. For me Choudhury, Vini, and Peck are the fit reliable central players of the required standard. When we reached Jan we needed two if Hamer remained our winger. It's not ideal (you'd obviously offload Davies and have a fit Arblaster), but we are going for automatic promotion so you make it happen. If I look at central midfield with my post Jan eyes, I only consider Vini's injury unlucky tbh. Everything else is to be expected given what we know of the players we have.

 

[SUFCinks]

Tonight is the difference between what a well coached team with a modest budget can do vs what a basic coached team with a good budget can.

This highlights Wilders flaws, not for the first time. ‘Lesser teams’ with a style of play on a smaller budget and less individual quality playing actual football. Yet we park the bus and can’t string 3/4 passes together.

Almost at the end of the season and still i wonder what we do in training sometimes. I have seen Sunday league teams play with more style and composure at times this season. Very similar patterns to last season which is worrying.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

77 minutes. We then didn’t risk him for the remaining 20 minutes as we probably saw that as putting him on the red zone.

Red zone, playing CB, possibly to be CB in a 3

Absolutely pathetic excuses. If he still can't play 90 then why the fuck is he here

I don't recall such an incredible fuss ever going into specific player minutes before

 

[shorehamview]

Johan Cruyff had the best idea of how to defend a one nil lead.

“Make it two nil.”

 

[jono_t2000]

The oddest thing to me is that Wilder says he is a big fan of Sir Alex Fergusons methods.

Yet if you read his book and his comments in public, Ferguson often talks about how when you're ahead never start going defensive and substitute a midfielder or striker for a defender as it encourages the opposition to flow forward and more often than not leads to trouble.

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

The oddest thing to me is that Wilder says he is a big fan of Sir Alex Fergusons methods.

Yet if you read his book and his comments in public, Ferguson often talks about how when you're ahead never start going defensive and substitute a midfielder or striker for a defender as it encourages the opposition to flow forward and more often than not leads to trouble.

Ah, Alex Fergusons Art Of War! Well worth a read. My favourite tactics: tap watch furiously if another goal is needed towards the end of the battle and throw potentially useful weapons at own players in the dressing room which may be potentially useful on the battlefield.

 

[Keen Blade]

Honest answer; Holding has not played 90 minutes for ages. We can all get wrapped up in the moment. Wilder isn’t wanting us to complete the remaining 9 games of the season with just two fit centre backs, both of which aren’t shy at picking up cards.

It comes back to the crucial failure to recruit a better CB than Robbo in the January window.
Look at their goal , he was tight up against their scorer and yet allowed him to turn and shoot and score.
He's a great guy but he struggles to be the kind of CB you need in a team wanting promotion from this league.

£10m on Cannon instead of a leadership quality CB.
Then scratch around for one after failing to pay a few pennies more for the QPR lad - utter madness ,
after losing our rock , Souttar.

If we miss out , we all know in our hearts the January decision which fucked us.

We haven't even got Vini now as a makeshift CB , so it's young Baptiste or rusty Holding as next in line.

With rusty Moore up top , we have 2 key positions than require heroics from those players to see us right.

The feckin pigs will be smelling blood on Sunday.
I feel for our players - as NoPigFans said , they looked generally knackered last night.
Five days to recover as best they can.

If we get an auto spot from this position , it will be as unlikely as Dunkirk.

A 2-point deduction.
A crap GD compared to rivals.
A hobbling decision in January.
Away at the Sty on Sunday & Turf Moor on Easter Monday.
Key players injured or carrying injuries.

If the lads do it in these circs , they will be heroes for evermore.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

A lot has been.made of the failure to bring in another ( or different) defender. The bigger failure was not bringing in another reliable, robust central midfield player. Relying on Peck, Shacks, Davies, Vini, HC was always too big a gamble imo. I'd have been concluding that most of them (the exception being of HC and Souza) are unreliable and would not be relying on Peck three games a week (due to his age and the long season). Peck performing above all reasonable expectations has covered this issue up. I'm not sure what I'd have done except attempt to pack the middle of the park with four or five players. Maybe a big lad with some pace off him up front.

McCallum to help Burrows (another who looks knackered after 70mins every week) should have happened as soon as we scored. But you're right, Peck looked knackered and HC was the worst player on the pitch, so of course we stuck the athletic powerhouse that is Hamer in there and kept Peck on ....

Sometimes think Wilder is like an Under 8's coach who uses his subs to give equal game time, whilst keeping his favourites on even if he has to play them out of position

 

[Nick Jansky]

I just think it’s an unrealistic expectation for the club to carry so many players and also for the player to come knowing when we already have Hamer, Souza, Peck, Choudhury, O’Hare, Davies and Shackleton who can all play midfield centrally.

Souza, Davies & Shackleton are chronically injury prone. No way O’Hare would be effective in central midfield, not robust enough.

 

[TJ blade]

The Shackleton signing as been a complete disaster! He had a poor injury record at dirty Leeds... so what do we do sign him up, got injured in a friendly at Harrogate, and basically no fuckers seen him since... waste of a signing!

 

[shorehamview]

Ah, Alex Fergusons Art Of War! Well worth a read. My favourite tactics: tap watch furiously if another goal is needed towards the end of the battle and throw potentially useful weapons at own players in the dressing room which may be potentially useful on the battlefield.

You forgot “fall out about stud fees for a racehorse despite being a self-proclaimed socialist, thus letting American leeches take over the club and saddle it with huge debt”, among others.

 

[cahill]

Time and again we've adopted this tactic with a one goal lead, and often it's been relatively early in the second half. We've gotten away with it a lot this season and it's no surprise that it's eventually bit us on the arse.

I'd understand it at the 80 minute(ish) mark, but tonight we took this stance pretty much as soon as we took the lead! Added to the fact we were playing capable opposition, who have the ability to hurt us there's no defending Wilder tonight IMO. The thing I struggle to wrap my head around - surely by attacking and keeping teams on the back foot you are in effect defending your lead (so long as you don't commit too many forward and leave the defense exposed) because the opposition then spend less time in your half!

I'm not part of the bed wetting brigade, and certainly don't think it's a disaster, but it is a massive disappointment to miss out on putting a bit of daylight between us and Burnley. We have the ability to hurt teams until we sit in to defend these narrow leads, often taking off our more dangerous players to facilitate it (granted this wasn't the case tonight).

In summary, not the end of the world but I hope Wilder learns from this and we look to kill teams off more.

Think Wilder is too long in the game to “learn” anything from last night. It’s his football philosophy. To be honest it’s wearing a bit thin for me this constantly, desperately, holding onto a single goal advantage with much of the game still to play

 

[Tom Bott]

He'd already made it to 87 minutes, so.....

Games 95 or 110 minutes (Burnley last night) though.

 

[ATL Recs]

This just isn’t true. We didn’t sit back. I’m sat here with the recording of the game in front of me. It’s the 82nd minute and we’ve got five players near BC’s box as part of an attack. McCallum is then up and putting pressure on their player deep into their half of the pitch.

We just can’t dictate games. If anything I think Wilder told the players NOT to sit back. But the reality is that we’re playing against a BC side who were wanting to move the ball forward at every opportunity to get a goal back. And we’re fairly evenly matched. The biggest issue for me was having an incredibly rusty Keifer Moore on the pitch who butchered a lot of decent openings for us.

Sorry but they used possession well the whole game we just chased and couldn't get near them at times we set up so badly

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Never had hold of the midfield..as good as Peck was on Sat he looked tired last night . When your conceding possession as we did last night your going to do a lot of chasing the ball .
I’ve questioned our fitness levels in another thread & I’m not sure how bigger part that plays in us sitting too deep .

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Tonight is the difference between what a well coached team with a modest budget can do vs what a basic coached team with a good budget can.

This highlights Wilders flaws, not for the first time. ‘Lesser teams’ with a style of play on a smaller budget and less individual quality playing actual football. Yet we park the bus and can’t string 3/4 passes together.

Almost at the end of the season and still i wonder what we do in training sometimes. I have seen Sunday league teams play with more style and composure at times this season. Very similar patterns to last season which is worrying.

Something in this.
Noticeable on Saturday and last night had we had no idea what to do when we got a throw in.
On almost every single occasion our throw ended in their possession.

 

[Champagneblade]

Souza, Davies & Shackleton are chronically injury prone. No way O’Hare would be effective in central midfield, not robust enough.

If we bought the wrong midfielders then that’s something to look at. My point is more that we have numbers and are unlikely to have been adding more.

Between Hamer coming on and Campbell going off we looked good. With no Campbell there was no running in behind and we lost possession. Plus we continued to allow their right winger time and space to receive the ball and get it in the box. Whereas we never seemed to utilise the pace on the right of JRS and FS to get at their full back and get in behind to pull it back.

They deserved the point, I thought we were poor for most of the game, in fact they have got worse over the 6 games I have attended, Luton, Oxford, Plymouth, Sunderland, Burnley and tonight. We must be the worst SUFC team to sit on top of the Championship/league 1/Division 2. Which says a lot about the quality of the Division.

I am not sure that promotion would be a good thing, more likely it will bring back a repeat of last seasons debacle, and possibly worse.

No issue with Campbell being rested. If Moore is the guy on the bench no issue either. But we have to play to his strengths. How many crosses did we put in the box for a guy who is 6’5”?

We need to show more collective intelligence.

 

[Nick Jansky]

We need to show more collective intelligence.

We tend to prioritise “character” over intelligence. We tend to acquire players who can fit into a fairly rigid system.

 

[LondonBlade89]

Sorry but they used possession well the whole game we just chased and couldn't get near them at times we set up so badly

Why are you saying sorry to me? I don’t think anything you’ve said disagrees with me. Apology accepted?

 

[CaptainMorgans]

It's worked enough times this season to see us top.
We're 37 games in, we're not going to change.

I expected us to see last night out, on the basis that we mostly always do.
We didn't. But we're not in crisis because of it.

 

[blade too long]

Time and again we've adopted this tactic with a one goal lead

Bristol City were on us the whole 90 minutes not just after we scored , they were excellent throughout. We did not retreat into a shell
We worked hard to hold them first half worked harder to get ahead , and still they pushed
Wilder in post match was open and honest we were struggling to match them through out
They will hopefully cause Burnley and Leeds as much problems when they play them in the coming weeks

other teams do play well last night bristol were better over 90 minutes than leeds were

 

[Tom Bott]

Think Wilder is too long in the game to “learn” anything from last night. It’s his football philosophy. To be honest it’s wearing a bit thin for me this constantly, desperately, holding onto a single goal advantage with much of the game still to play

Though if it was us that were one goal down, would we not be pressing and attacking the opposition more.
The problem with football is that there are two teams who generally both wish to win.

It's not all - Wilder's told us to sit back and defend.

 

[Chingo]

For me Vini is by far our best player and one of the main reasons we see out the nail biters , he breaks the opposition play up around the 20 to 30 yard marks and sets us off on attack and with Vini playing they don’t get anywhere near 20 plus shots!
Hamza did ok’ish but he’s not Vini , not saying we’re a one man team but Souza is the player we miss the most when he’s out

 

[Bladesince59]

Time and again we've adopted this tactic with a one goal lead, and often it's been relatively early in the second half. We've gotten away with it a lot this season and it's no surprise that it's eventually bit us on the arse.

I'd understand it at the 80 minute(ish) mark, but tonight we took this stance pretty much as soon as we took the lead! Added to the fact we were playing capable opposition, who have the ability to hurt us there's no defending Wilder tonight IMO. The thing I struggle to wrap my head around - surely by attacking and keeping teams on the back foot you are in effect defending your lead (so long as you don't commit too many forward and leave the defense exposed) because the opposition then spend less time in your half!

I'm not part of the bed wetting brigade, and certainly don't think it's a disaster, but it is a massive disappointment to miss out on putting a bit of daylight between us and Burnley. We have the ability to hurt teams until we sit in to defend these narrow leads, often taking off our more dangerous players to facilitate it (granted this wasn't the case tonight).

In summary, not the end of the world but I hope Wilder learns from this and we look to kill teams off more.

He'll learn bugger all.

 

[Cheeky Blade]

Time and again we've adopted this tactic with a one goal lead, and often it's been relatively early in the second half. We've gotten away with it a lot this season and it's no surprise that it's eventually bit us on the arse.

I'd understand it at the 80 minute(ish) mark, but tonight we took this stance pretty much as soon as we took the lead! Added to the fact we were playing capable opposition, who have the ability to hurt us there's no defending Wilder tonight IMO. The thing I struggle to wrap my head around - surely by attacking and keeping teams on the back foot you are in effect defending your lead (so long as you don't commit too many forward and leave the defense exposed) because the opposition then spend less time in your half!

I'm not part of the bed wetting brigade, and certainly don't think it's a disaster, but it is a massive disappointment to miss out on putting a bit of daylight between us and Burnley. We have the ability to hurt teams until we sit in to defend these narrow leads, often taking off our more dangerous players to facilitate it (granted this wasn't the case tonight).

In summary, not the end of the world but I hope Wilder learns from this and we look to kill teams off more.

It’s a valid criticism that I guess could be countered by our current league position.

 

[nopigfansintown]

One thing I'll never question is the attitude and application of this team. We were on our knees for large proportions of the game and despite that spent stoppage time in their box. Top class.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Sorry but they used possession well the whole game we just chased and couldn't get near them at times we set up so badly

Set up and then didn't adjust. Wilder used to be good at in game adjustments, but in this current carnation he's more like Frank Lampard. He's Hecky-esque in that he makes adjustments 5 minutes after it's obviously not working.