Sheffield United's academy restructure bears fruit

[nopigfansintown]

After EPPP there was big challenges facing United's academy.Here's McCabe and Shieber on that phenomenon:

"The big clubs try to hoover up the best players,
serenade the parents, give perks,” McCabe says. “With the FA, there’s
rhetoric but never any action. The worst example was Jacob Mellis.
Chelsea took him; if he’d been with us another two years, he’d have
been a better person as well as player. Where’s he now?”
Mansfield Town in League Two. “He would have played in the first team
here, in the Championship at 17, 18, instead of falling down,” Carl
Shieber, the head of football administration, says. “The sad thing is
we’d get less for Mellis now (under the Elite Player Performance
Plan), £130,000, than back then when it was still peanuts, £400,000.”

And Huddersfield Chairmen Dean Hoyle on why they shut their category two academy down, despite the Premiership millions: http://trainingground.guru/articles/dean-hoyle-entire-academy-system-has-to-change

United's academy system responded by targeting older players who would finish their footballing education at the club, rather than having the majority of their education here. Since then, we have seen the successful sale of Ramsdale, Adams, and now seemingly Brooks (as well as Reed and Calvert-Lewin via the traditional route).I was told by McCabe that "the academy was well in profit" prior to these sales.Some might say that Brooks' sale was all part of the plan:

Travis Binnion: "We got Brooksy (David Brooks) out of City at 17, wow, technically
different class. He didn’t want to win the ball back at City, but we
look at what he might be, we persevere. He got player of the
tournament at Toulon (with England this summer). Hopefully we can keep
him. But there will be a price. It will be a good chunk of money for
us".

Every cloud...

Sources: the Times 23/9/17;Kevin McCabe and Travis Binnion May 2016.

 

[Caveblade]

What fruits exactly? I don't see the SUFC first team getting any stronger as a result of the academy?

 

[nopigfansintown]

What fruits exactly? I don't see the SUFC first team getting any stronger as a result of the academy?

Where do you think the money has been coming from to purchase the players? Clue: academy player sales.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

What fruits exactly? I don't see the SUFC first team getting any stronger as a result of the academy?

It's an uncomfortable truth, but it's not about our Academy, it's about the Academy System.
ALL our first team are Academy Graduates, they've all come through an Academy, just not ours.

 

[Revolution]

Where do you think the money has been coming from to purchase the players? Clue: academy player sales.

Well, that's the key isn't it.

Wilder used the Adams and DCL money to pay for Moore and O'Connell, and wages for Ebanks-Landell. We got promoted as a result. That was excellent use of transfer money.

Adkins used the Murphy money to pay Dean Hammond's wages. That was an unmitigated disaster.

Clough used the Maguire money to sign zero decent centre halves and a lot of injured and/or poor quality players. That didn't go very well either.

The money for Kyle Walker and Kyle Naughton went on the likes of Nosworthy, Andy Taylor, and Ryan France. We got relegated 2 seasons later.

Let's see what we do with the money before we pat ourselves on the back for selling our talented young players again. And on that note, I will not be best pleased if half of it is pissed away on Sam Gallagher, who is appreciably worse than both Clark and Sharp.

 

[Carlton Blade]

What fruits exactly? I don't see the SUFC first team getting any stronger as a result of the academy?

I agree in the main but only in terms of direct funding of player purchases and players established in the first team.

As a club we must have a good reputation with agents as a destination that can develop young players let go from top 6 clubs. I hate the Brooks sale but as a business model to fund the club and improve its standing the academy is fantastic

 

[Bladezz]

SWFC let there young player go for free, who’s been held back by SWFC.

We get 12 million for ours.

 

[Caveblade]

Fair

Where do you think the money has been coming from to purchase the players? Clue: academy player sales.

Fair point, but as Revolution points out invariably we sell quality and reinvest in lesser quality.

The only time it has worked is in the DCL example.

The only other argument I can see is that pays off the annual deficit, but I stick to my origional point, it has little effect on the first team. We have trust that CW spends any proceeds well.

 

[SwitchBLADE Smiles]

SWFC let there young player go for free, who’s been held back by SWFC.

We get 12 million for ours.

To be fair, Hirst was frozen out of their first team by their mental owner, attempting to hold him to ransom and get him to sign a new contract. Then 2 ex Wednesday legends screwed them over & got him a move for free to Leicester city B.

Brooks is a full international who has scored and created goals in England's second tier. He's won trophies at international youth level and has shown on national TV that she shows up in big games (Wednesday & Leeds away).

I still think we've been had by Bournemouth. The £10 million quoted would have potentially bought us a side gunning for the Premier League 10 years ago. These days, it might get us a decent championship striker.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

Fair


Fair point, but as Revolution points out invariably we sell quality and reinvest in lesser quality.

The only time it has worked is in the DCL example.

The only other argument I can see is that pays off the annual deficit, but I stick to my origional point, it has little effect on the first team. We have trust that CW spends any proceeds well.

Difficult to say that though isn’t it because we can’t know what the first team would look like without the money the academy reportedly makes us. Yes we might not see a steady stream of first team players but as an income stream how can we tell what impact that has

 

[Caveblade]

Watching Maguire tonight. That was a fabulous bit of business, one of the shining lights tonight and we got a massive one and a half million having gone crawling back to Hull City.

 

[coolhandluke]

Watching Maguire tonight. That was a fabulous bit of business, one of the shining lights tonight and we got a massive one and a half million having gone crawling back to Hull City.

Genuine question. When you see the likes of Maguire and Walker playing so well at the very highest level are your first thoughts along the lines of ' we've been ripped off ' or ' McCabes robbed us ' ?

The reason I ask is because when I see them my first thoughts are along the lines of ' we made them the players they are ' or ' our Academy is something we should be justifiably proud of ' .

 

[bladesmanluke]

Watching Maguire tonight. That was a fabulous bit of business, one of the shining lights tonight and we got a massive one and a half million having gone crawling back to Hull City.

My absolute favourite bit of blades transfer business that. He had sun stroke from playing golf, can you believe it?

 

[BushBlade]

Fair


Fair point, but as Revolution points out invariably we sell quality and reinvest in lesser quality.

The only time it has worked is in the DCL example.

The only other argument I can see is that pays off the annual deficit, but I stick to my origional point, it has little effect on the first team. We have trust that CW spends any proceeds well.

If it worked with DCL then it’s not invariable. There’s a big difference between the DCL example and the rest; Wilder. That’s why I’m not throwing the toys out of the pram. If the money was going to Blackwell I’d be smashing t’lot up.

 

[BushBlade]

My absolute favourite bit of blades transfer business that. He had sun stroke from playing golf, can you believe it?

No, because it wasn’t true. Clough said the most ridiculous thing he could get away with to make it clear that H was banging his door down demanding a move. And why wouldn’t he, look where it’s taken him.

 

[vorpal blade]

The academy isn't working for us - after 6 years or whatever it was in the third division we are now in the second and once again, preparation for the new season is marred by selling one of our best players (certainly the most entertaining).

Bournemouth's academy system IS working for them .... have they even got one? if they haven't, it's working for them, they are in the top league and seem to have poached a player from whom, I suspect they'll make at least £40M when they sell him on in a year, probably to Madrid or City.

We'll have the annual ritual hand wringing from the club .... 'we couldn't keep him, he wanted to leave' .... probably because he'll be much better paid at mighty Bournemouth .... but do the math -

if we pay him £40K per week, then in a year that will be £2M on his salary give or take. So we pay him for 2 seasons at that rate and it's £4million on his wages.
But we are more likely to have gone up with him and even if we haven't, he'll have been a regular player and his value will have risen to at least £20M (gifted championship forward price) or probably about £50M (watch what Bournemouth sell him for in a year's time) - that's how penny pinching makes no sense in football ...... and if people are daft enough to think that we ever invest wisely or that £12M is good value for a player of Brooks' ability ... well, the stats don't lie - we haven't won anything since 1926.

and if someone says ... yes, but that doesn't fit into our wage structure - well, the wage structure doesn't support the concept of our getting to the Premiership or ever winning anything - does it?

again, we haven't won anything on living memory and we have only played top flight football sporadically in the past 40 years - it's pathetic.

 

[vorpal blade]

Genuine question. When you see the likes of Maguire and Walker playing so well at the very highest level are your first thoughts along the lines of ' we've been ripped off ' or ' McCabes robbed us ' ?

The reason I ask is because when I see them my first thoughts are along the lines of ' we made them the players they are ' or ' our Academy is something we should be justifiably proud of ' .

Not quite a feeling of being ripped off - but I do feel quite sad that our lack of a sound strategic plan means they are never our players when they play for England. I think the quantity of talent that we do produce shows that our academy is not working for us while ever we aren't in the top league.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Not quite a feeling of being ripped off - but I do feel quite sad that our lack of a sound strategic plan means they are never our players when they play for England. I think the quantity of talent that we do produce shows that our academy is not working for us while ever we aren't in the top league.

You could argue it's too good for purpose. I think last season it was the 8th ranked for number of minutes played in the PL, above the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal. It might set a similar record in the World Cup.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The one fruit McCabe cannot get enough of.

 

[Caveblade]

Genuine question. When you see the likes of Maguire and Walker playing so well at the very highest level are your first thoughts along the lines of ' we've been ripped off ' or ' McCabes robbed us ' ?

The reason I ask is because when I see them my first thoughts are along the lines of ' we made them the players they are ' or ' our Academy is something we should be justifiably proud of ' .

Of course I feel proud. They are Sheffield lads and Blades I wish them every success.

However see @vorpal blades response, sums up my feelings perfectly. It's all fine and dandy tugging your forelock to McCabe and saying well done for producing all those great footballers, but I would rather see them playing in a great Blades side.

As it is we remain an unambitious club that bounces around the lower leagues and every ten years or so get a season in the top flight.

We may have a production line of talent, I would like to see a board have the testicular fortitude to try and hang onto some of it and build a great Blades team.

I love what Wilder has done, but how long will he stay if we have wrangling owners and a sold as seen policy?

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

The academy isn't working for us - after 6 years or whatever it was in the third division we are now in the second and once again, preparation for the new season is marred by selling one of our best players (certainly the most entertaining).

Bournemouth's academy system IS working for them .... have they even got one? if they haven't, it's working for them, they are in the top league and seem to have poached a player from whom, I suspect they'll make at least £40M when they sell him on in a year, probably to Madrid or City.

We'll have the annual ritual hand wringing from the club .... 'we couldn't keep him, he wanted to leave' .... probably because he'll be much better paid at mighty Bournemouth .... but do the math -

if we pay him £40K per week, then in a year that will be £2M on his salary give or take. So we pay him for 2 seasons at that rate and it's £4million on his wages.
But we are more likely to have gone up with him and even if we haven't, he'll have been a regular player and his value will have risen to at least £20M (gifted championship forward price) or probably about £50M (watch what Bournemouth sell him for in a year's time) - that's how penny pinching makes no sense in football ...... and if people are daft enough to think that we ever invest wisely or that £12M is good value for a player of Brooks' ability ... well, the stats don't lie - we haven't won anything since 1926.

and if someone says ... yes, but that doesn't fit into our wage structure - well, the wage structure doesn't support the concept of our getting to the Premiership or ever winning anything - does it?

again, we haven't won anything on living memory and we have only played top flight football sporadically in the past 40 years - it's pathetic.

 

[finlaytheblade]

The academy isn't working for us - after 6 years or whatever it was in the third division we are now in the second and once again, preparation for the new season is marred by selling one of our best players (certainly the most entertaining).

Bournemouth's academy system IS working for them .... have they even got one? if they haven't, it's working for them, they are in the top league and seem to have poached a player from whom, I suspect they'll make at least £40M when they sell him on in a year, probably to Madrid or City.

We'll have the annual ritual hand wringing from the club .... 'we couldn't keep him, he wanted to leave' .... probably because he'll be much better paid at mighty Bournemouth .... but do the math -

if we pay him £40K per week, then in a year that will be £2M on his salary give or take. So we pay him for 2 seasons at that rate and it's £4million on his wages.
But we are more likely to have gone up with him and even if we haven't, he'll have been a regular player and his value will have risen to at least £20M (gifted championship forward price) or probably about £50M (watch what Bournemouth sell him for in a year's time) - that's how penny pinching makes no sense in football ...... and if people are daft enough to think that we ever invest wisely or that £12M is good value for a player of Brooks' ability ... well, the stats don't lie - we haven't won anything since 1926.

and if someone says ... yes, but that doesn't fit into our wage structure - well, the wage structure doesn't support the concept of our getting to the Premiership or ever winning anything - does it?

again, we haven't won anything on living memory and we have only played top flight football sporadically in the past 40 years - it's pathetic.

If you ran a business like that it would be in administration within 6months

 

[s4-blade]

The genuine lack of any knowledge about the financial and administrative side of football on this board, and the internet in general, is astounding at times. Especially when people’s naive and ultimately wrong assumptions are presented by these self professed experts as undisputed fact.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I'll start with an unnecessary dig. If you want to see some of our Academy players at their best. The Maguires, the Calvert--Lewins, the Brooks, the Ramsdales. Before they play a handful of games & get sold to the Premiership. Get yourself down to more Academy games at Shirecliffe, Stocksbridge & The Lane. You could have watched Brooks playing since early 2015.

I must say I like the analysis by vorpal blade although I disagree a bit with his conclusions.

The income disparity between the Premiership & the Football League is ridiculous. It allows Premiership Clubs to pay a lot of money for young prospects. And to multiply their wages many times. But, to have them warming the bench, rarely playing or pissing around in "the reserves".

The youngsters are in an impossible situation. Sign, cash in on your talent, but twiddle your thumbs. And once they've decided to do that, the selling club have few options. Get the best price, get the add ons, be hard arsed - yes. But, they're off.

vorpal blade is right - or put their wages up, nearer to Premiership levels. "We'll pay you this, and you'll be in the squad most weeks, the crowd will love you".

My own opinion is that is a slippery slope - you make one player happy, but may upset the rest. But, the choice of paying Brooks a lot of cash is one we could make.

The income disparity is to the detriment of clubs like us & to the detriment of the lads themselves kicking a ball.

 

[JohnDenver]

I'll start with an unnecessary dig. If you want to see some of our Academy players at their best. The Maguires, the Calvert--Lewins, the Brooks, the Ramsdales. Before they play a handful of games & get sold to the Premiership. Get yourself down to more Academy games at Shirecliffe, Stocksbridge & The Lane. You could have watched Brooks playing since early 2015.

I must say I like the analysis by vorpal blade although I disagree a bit with his conclusions.

The income disparity between the Premiership & the Football League is ridiculous. It allows Premiership Clubs to pay a lot of money for young prospects. And to multiply their wages many times. But, to have them warming the bench, rarely playing or pissing around in "the reserves".

The youngsters are in an impossible situation. Sign, cash in on your talent, but twiddle your thumbs. And once they've decided to do that, the selling club have few options. Get the best price, get the add ons, be hard arsed - yes. But, they're off.

vorpal blade is right - or put their wages up, nearer to Premiership levels. "We'll pay you this, and you'll be in the squad most weeks, the crowd will love you".

My own opinion is that is a slippery slope - you make one player happy, but may upset the rest. But, the choice of paying Brooks a lot of cash is one we could make.

The income disparity is to the detriment of clubs like us & to the detriment of the lads themselves kicking a ball.

This. ^^^

Without a sugar daddy, we have to build slowly and accept there will be setbacks. It’s tough but doable given good fortune.

If we ever make it up, we simply must do better than last time and create something sustainable. Which is what Bournemouth are aiming for. Buying young talent, consistency of method and personnel, plus some handy financial backing.

Swansea did it for a few years and collected a trophy. It’s the model we need to follow.

 

[robbiez666]

Where do you think the money has been coming from to purchase the players? Clue: academy player sales.

I find it extraordinary that in 2018 many of our fans can't grasp the fact that the only reason we can afford to sign any player is because of the young players we sell via the Academy. The club loses millions. The owners cover the losses. There is very little extra for anything else.

 

[vorpal blade]

If you ran a business like that it would be in administration within 6months

yep - like erm .... Bournemouth for example?

 

[LenTednTony]

A lot of this is conjecture. Yes Brooksy MAY fulfill his potential and, if he does, we have got additional revenue should he hit some of the triggers. However, he could end up not fulfilling his potential and fall by the wayside. He might have become an invaluable member of the first team and helped us to the premier or, he might NEVER kick on any further than where he is now. For his sake, I hope he does and I wish him all the best of luck with that but, we don’t have the financial power to turn down a good offer like we have got (whatever it is) and who knows, Bournemouth might have said ‘that’s the best offer and not a penny more!’ If CW/AK are relying on that money, we have to accept it. No one player, unproven, will carry the team.

 

[vorpal blade]

Brooks WILL fill his potential, it's quite daft to hold out some hope that he will not, he's all but there already. It's like the Emperor's New Clothes in reverse you lot want to believe he's not as good as the evidence you've seen with your own eyes suggests.. He's clearly the most talented footballer seen at Bramall Lane in decades.

He didn't have a decent run of games last season and was ring rusty & protected by the club ..... that is the only reason you might think he mightn't be good enough - of course he is - face facts.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Brooks WILL fill his potential, it's quite daft to hold out some hope that he will not, he's all but there already. It's like the Emperor's New Clothes in reverse you lot want to believe he's not as good as the evidence you've seen with your own eyes suggests.. He's clearly the most talented footballer seen at Bramall Lane in decades.

He didn't have a decent run of games last season and was ring rusty & protected by the club ..... that is the only reason you might think he mightn't be good enough - of course he is - face facts.

Hence Chris Wilder prioritising a sell on clause over an extra few quid now in the here and now.