Sheffield United and the play-offs

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If given the opportunity, would you scrap the Football League play-offs?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 32.2%

  • No

    Votes: 78 67.8%
  • Total voters
    115
JackG6 said:
Hi everyone.

I'm not actually a Blades fan, but I was wondering if a few of you might be able to help me with my dissertation?

I know the above title of this thread has probably brought back too many bad memories for you to even contemplate, but I'm doing my dissertation on the Football League play-offs and, while I've already spoken to a fair few fan groups about them, I don't think I'll get any more interesting answers than those from Sheffield United fans.

I've listed a few questions below and I'd be really grateful if a few of you took the time to answer them. If you could leave your full name underneath your answer, or DM me with it, that'd be great too.

So, baring in mind your record:

1. What has been your most painful memory supporting Sheffield United in the play-offs?

2. Why do you think you have historically been so poor in the play-offs?

3. Obviously you have a very slim chance of making the play-offs this year. If given the opportunity, would you happily take sixth place and another shot at them or write off this year altogether?

4. Do you support the play-off system? Or is it simply unfair?

Thanks for any and all help,

Jack.
Click to expand...
As someone who years ago had to do a dissertation these are quite clearly not questions you would ask. The questions are loaded to the negative so therefore not objective. Good try piggyJack. But I will love the play-offs when the south Barnsley liquidation dodging bragswine don't go up through them. Derby or Brighton most likely in the final. Perhaps you could disclose the title of your 15,000 word dissertation that focus's on this?
 



1. What has been your most painful memory supporting Sheffield United in the play-offs?

2. Why do you think you have historically been so poor in the play-offs?

3. Obviously you have a very slim chance of making the play-offs this year. If given the opportunity, would you happily take sixth place and another shot at them or write off this year altogether?

4. Do you support the play-off system? Or is it simply unfair?
groveblade said:
I think the play offs are unfair on the team finishing 3rd... but they keep the season alive for so many teams that I'd vote for keeping them..

My tweak to the system would be:

6th plays 5th (at 5th's ground)

winner of that plays 4th (at 4th's ground)

winner of that plays 3rd (at Wembley/Old Trafford/suitable big ground)
Click to expand...

Agree completely with this. I'd also throw in that if the Final is drawn (in 90 or ET), 3rd place get promoted. In fact, any draw does not go to penalties - it's up to the lower ranked team to prove they deserve it by beating the higher one.
 
What degree are you doing? If it's something with applied research give me a pm and I can show you how to script a proper quant questionnaire.
 
My replies to 1 - 3 are pretty much in line with most of the above.

In reply to your 4th point, I'm strongly AGAINST the play-offs, for the reason that regardless if you WIN or LOSE, your players, staff, LOSE almost a month of the "closed season", so that BOTH teams are LESS prepared for the new forthcoming season.

At the end of last season, Nigel Clough couldn't be SACKED, nor Nigel Adkins couldn't be APPOINTED, until we were knocked out of the play-off semi-final, effectively losing two weeks.
 
1. What has been your most painful memory supporting Sheffield United in the play-offs?

1997 - losing to the last kick of the game against Palace

2. Why do you think you have historically been so poor in the play-offs?

it's a curse

3. Obviously you have a very slim chance of making the play-offs this year. If given the opportunity, would you happily take sixth place and another shot at them or write off this year altogether?

take it of course

4. Do you support the play-off system? Or is it simply unfair?

yes but maybe with some changes as suggested on here, eg if level at 90 mins the higher team wins
 
JackG6 said:
Hi everyone.

I'm not actually a Blades fan, but I was wondering if a few of you might be able to help me with my dissertation?

I know the above title of this thread has probably brought back too many bad memories for you to even contemplate, but I'm doing my dissertation on the Football League play-offs and, while I've already spoken to a fair few fan groups about them, I don't think I'll get any more interesting answers than those from Sheffield United fans.

I've listed a few questions below and I'd be really grateful if a few of you took the time to answer them. If you could leave your full name underneath your answer, or DM me with it, that'd be great too.

So, baring in mind your record:

1. What has been your most painful memory supporting Sheffield United in the play-offs?

2. Why do you think you have historically been so poor in the play-offs?

3. Obviously you have a very slim chance of making the play-offs this year. If given the opportunity, would you happily take sixth place and another shot at them or write off this year altogether?

4. Do you support the play-off system? Or is it simply unfair?

Thanks for any and all help,

Jack.
Click to expand...

Jack , don't know what your degree or diploma is but you have to be really shit to fail theses days . Good luck and think about those selling the big issue .Delia still makes good cakes for a gob shite. Let's be havin your.

UTB
 
groveblade said:
I think the play offs are unfair on the team finishing 3rd... but they keep the season alive for so many teams that I'd vote for keeping them..

My tweak to the system would be:

6th plays 5th (at 5th's ground)

winner of that plays 4th (at 4th's ground)

winner of that plays 3rd (at Wembley/Old Trafford/suitable big ground)
Click to expand...
Best idea I have heard on this theme.
 
Again, thanks for all the genuine help. You've thrown up a lot of interesting ideas that no-one else had yet thought of (e.g. proposed reforms to the play-off system that I do actually agree with). I'm hoping to speak to someone high up at the Football League next week so I'll discuss what you've said with him. It will be interesting to see what he says.

A couple of other points:

1. I'm genuinely not trying to wind anyone up. Again, by talking to Sheffield United fans, I'm just looking for another perspective. My questions were not objective, no, but I was just trying to make them specific to the club.

2. I'm doing a sports journalism degree, which may explain the dissertation topic. It may not be wholly academic but it's what I want to do! (And yes, I know that makes it especially bad that I spelt 'bearing' wrong!)

Thanks again for all the answers so far.
 
1. What has been your most painful memory supporting Sheffield United in the play-offs?
Where do you start? From seeing morgs broken in 09 to Michael Browns penalty miss in Cardiff.

I think it has to be the nature of the defeat in '97. Baking hot day, seeing the ball hit the net from Hopkins and that delayed response you get as the wall of sound hits you when the opposition cheer a goal. Such a late goal there was no way back
'03 was a numb feeling as you just couldn't believe what was happening. We were so poor that day and we just didn't turn up.
After Burnley in '09 (?) i decided I couldn't go to Wembley again

2. Why do you think you have historically been so poor in the play-offs?
No idea, we've had some bad luck, we've made some errors, but i think now its just become a mental issue within the club.

3. Obviously you have a very slim chance of making the play-offs this year. If given the opportunity, would you happily take sixth place and another shot at them or write off this year altogether?
No, i'd write it off. We will never win the play offs so i'd rather we finished the season after 46 games and then rebuild for next year

4. Do you support the play-off system? Or is it simply unfair?
I'd scrap the play offs tomorrow. Hate them. They're not unfair, everyone knows the rules and its up to each team to turn up and win, but it prolongs an already long season and I just see it as another way for the Leagues to make money out of fans. The play off games should be free for Blades fans.

I'd scrap the JPT before the play offs though
 
JackG6 said:
Again, thanks for all the genuine help. You've thrown up a lot of interesting ideas that no-one else had yet thought of (e.g. proposed reforms to the play-off system that I do actually agree with). I'm hoping to speak to someone high up at the Football League next week so I'll discuss what you've said with him. It will be interesting to see what he says.

A couple of other points:

1. I'm genuinely not trying to wind anyone up. Again, by talking to Sheffield United fans, I'm just looking for another perspective. My questions were not objective, no, but I was just trying to make them specific to the club.

2. I'm doing a sports journalism degree, which may explain the dissertation topic. It may not be wholly academic but it's what I want to do! (And yes, I know that makes it especially bad that I spelt 'bearing' wrong!)

Thanks again for all the answers so far.
Click to expand...

Good luck . Remember the Blades when you become well known and on Sunday Supplement .

UTB
 
1. What has been your most painful memory supporting Sheffield United in the play-offs?

2003 - we just didn't turn up for the first 45 mins. Then the wolves Keeper put in aMotM performance in the second half.

2. Why do you think you have historically been so poor in the play-offs?

1997 - we simply weren't that good. Got past a far superior Ipswich team on away goals

1998 - only scraped into the PO on the last day having played 4 games in the last week. The heart of the team had been ripped out across the season between career ending injuries and Charlie Green selling our two best strikers on the same day. In the playoffs we actually played really well and we're only just edged out by a Sunderland team who were almost unstoppable that season.

2003 - as above

2009 - Burnley - for most of the season we looked a typical "play off" side, never in trouble of not being in the PO, never troubling the top two. Then we went on a bonkers run, coupled with astutter from Birmingham, and we went into the last game with a chance if the Autos. That didn't pan out and, or lack of striking options (Craig fucking Beattie) left us toothless in the final -although we were denied a blatant penalty in the second half.

2012 - Ched Evans - having looked certs for auto promotion, we conspired to throw out away after our start striker was (perhaps incorrectly) sent down. The team didn't look the same after that.

2013 - we were just crap

2015 - see 2013


3. Obviously you have a very slim chance of making the play-offs this year. If given the opportunity, would you happily take sixth place and another shot at them or write off this year altogether?

Of course. You'd have to be mad to give up an opportunity to get promoted.

4. Do you support the play-off system? Or is it simply unfair?

It is unfair, but it does keep the season alive a lot longer so I suspect it's a necessary evil. It needs tweaking to actually offer the team that finished higher on the league an advantage. Either similar to the Rugby League Playoffs, or home advantage, or something. Even if it is to remove the pens after ET.
 



No chance of them play-off after that result.
 
JackG6 said:
Hi everyone.

I'm not actually a Blades fan, but I was wondering if a few of you might be able to help me with my dissertation?

I know the above title of this thread has probably brought back too many bad memories for you to even contemplate, but I'm doing my dissertation on the Football League play-offs and, while I've already spoken to a fair few fan groups about them, I don't think I'll get any more interesting answers than those from Sheffield United fans.

I've listed a few questions below and I'd be really grateful if a few of you took the time to answer them. If you could leave your full name underneath your answer, or DM me with it, that'd be great too.

So, baring in mind your record:

1. What has been your most painful memory supporting Sheffield United in the play-offs?
Wolves 2003, we were on a roll and rolled over for our bellies tickling.

2. Why do you think you have historically been so poor in the play-offs?
Absolutely no rational explanation.

3. Obviously you have a very slim chance of making the play-offs this year. If given the opportunity, would you happily take sixth place and another shot at them or write off this year altogether?
Take 6th ( though it's gone now...)

4. Do you support the play-off system? Or is it simply unfair?
Support it overall though I can see arguments against.

Thanks for any and all help,

Jack.
Click to expand...
 
I would scrap them and perhaps go with the 3rd place playing 3rd from bottom from the division above.
 
Bladesman said:
I would scrap them and perhaps go with the 3rd place playing 3rd from bottom from the division above.
Click to expand...

That would, if you don't mind me saying, be a terrible idea.

If you finish 3 Rd from bottom of any league, you deserve to go down. No second chances.

Now, 3 up automatically and 4 the from bottom entering playoffs with positions 4-6, that's something I could get behind.
 
JackG6 said:
4. Do you support the play-off system? Or is it simply unfair?
Click to expand...

(Technical point: This is two questions - and a false dichotomy, I think)

I support the play-off system because it extends interest in the season for many clubs. I've watched plenty of meaningless end-of-season football. I've no idea why. It was great to turn up to the Lane this afternoon still in with a chance (maybe it was more of a chance of setting up a chance. Anyway, whatever it was, it was remote, but it was there). With the play-offs many teams and fans have their seasons extended. This benefits the sport as an entertainment.

In pure sporting terms the idea of play-offs is just plain wrong.

I do sometimes wonder about the idea of handicapping the play-offs with eg a 1 goal start for every 3 points ahead you finish. But tbh once you've accepted the idea of play-offs there's really no point in trying to make them fair, so just leave them alone and maybe in time the unfairness evens itself out. :confused:

What goes around comes around. It's just that sometimes it might take a while to come around.
 
JackG6 said:
I'm doing a sports journalism degree
Click to expand...

If you can track them down I'd recommend listening to the interviews with Adkins and compare the styles of Rob Staton and Andy Giddings from Radio Sheffield.

There are some on here though the interviewer is not always clear http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003wb32/clips

For me Staton keeps the question simple, clear, and straightforward. He takes himself out of it and just asks questions. This is sometimes the hardest thing to do.

Giddings otoh rambles almost interminably till he finally reveals the cleverly thought out question. (It's like listening to Miss Marple gathering everyone in the library to explain how she figured out who murdered the Archbishop.) More than once this season this has left Adkins baffled at what he's actually been asked.

Keep it simple.

Fwiw I often wonder about the difference between US and UK sports journalism. I think Bill Bryson's dad wrote on local baseball games and was very highly regarded. I think Bryson junior refers to this in the Thunderbolt Kid and includes an extract which is worth reading. There's something about US sports journalism that's different from UK sports journalism - though I'd be hard-pressed to say what that is exactly. Maybe they see a certain nobility in sport.

If you're looking for a distinctive voice/approach it might be worth looking at this.

In general, of course, for writers the advice is read as much as you can from anywhere you can: put together the parts that you like and create your own voice.
 
JackG6 said:
I'm not actually a Blades fan, but I was wondering if a few of you might be able to help me with my dissertation?

I know the above title of this thread has probably brought back too many bad memories for you to even contemplate, but I'm doing my dissertation on the Football League play-offs and, while I've already spoken to a fair few fan groups about them, I don't think I'll get any more interesting answers than those from Sheffield United fans.

I've listed a few questions below and I'd be really grateful if a few of you took the time to answer them. If you could leave your full name underneath your answer, or DM me with it, that'd be great too.

So, baring in mind your record:

1. What has been your most painful memory supporting Sheffield United in the play-offs?

2. Why do you think you have historically been so poor in the play-offs?



3. Obviously you have a very slim chance of making the play-offs this year. If given the opportunity, would you happily take sixth place and another shot at them or write off this year altogether?

4. Do you support the play-off system? Or is it simply unfair?

Thanks for any and all help,

Jack.
Click to expand...

1. Easily our 3-0 defeat to Wolves. We were probably the best side in the league that season and but for our cup runs we would have gone up automatically. It was a superb season and to see it end in such a way was devastating. That team still gets talked about today despite never gaining promotion.

2. We have struggled with injuries on many occasions whilst in others we just weren't good enough that particular season. The only time we had no excuses was the Wolves defeat. We were miles better than them but just didn't turn up on the day

3.I would love another shot at it. The beauty this season would be getting in the play offs at all would be totally unexpected. Obviously it's not going to happen but I dont think any fan would seriously pass up the chance of giving it a go

4.It's unfair of course. We have found that out ourselves. That said without the play offs the league would be utterly boring for most teams from about January onwards. It certainly makes things more exciting
 
I've always liked the analogy from running the marathon - the poor bloke who toughs it out to come third has to wait for fourth, fifth and sixth to finish, and they then run a 100 metre sprint to see who gets the bronze medal.

Of course it's not fair. But it can certainly be 'exciting' though I was at the Palace, Burnley and Huddersfield games, and I thought all three were stinkers as games of football. The worst has to have been Huddersfield, just for the sheer unforgivable ineptitude of our penalty takers. It's not bad luck or fate or the curse of Sheff Utd to lose a shoot-out when the other team miss their first three penalties - it's plain fucking incompetence.
 
The fairer way to have a play-off is a two legged match between team finishing third bottom in the division against the team finishing in third place in the below division
 
I wouldnt scrap the playoffs but I would change it. Reward those who finish higher and make it harder for those who finish 5th, 6th.

3rd place are automatically in the playoff final.
4th are in the semi-final.
5th and 6th place must play a one off game (5th at home as they finished higher) for the right to play 4th in the semi final which is another one off game at home at 4th.

This rewards those who just miss out on promotion, a good chance to win promotion (but still not a guarantee) and makes those who finish lower and/or sneaks in on the last day, more of a challenge. Im not a fan of the two leg playoff games, I want a do or die, all or nothing one off game where you can't afford to hang on for a draw to "take them back to our place and nick it".
 
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