Serious question - Are we better off relegated?

[PeterNdlovu081]

I'd rather finish 21st in the Championship next season than 1st in League One.

 

[alcoblade]

Outside the Prem 80% of TV money goes to Div 2, 12% to Div 3 and 8% to Div 4. Not sure what to pot is to break it down into figures. A percentage is paid equally to all teams in the league with the balance paid as prize money at the season end. Also losing play off finalists usally pocket the Wembley gate money in Div 2 not sure what happens in Div 2/3 playoffs.

Also all Div 2 get a payment from the Prem as well as parachute payments if you qualify.

Income drop is massive.

Total TV revenue is about £100M, falling to £80M the season after next. That suggests about a £2.5M drop in TV revenue. I'd expect a £2M drop in gate revenue (les sif we're challenging at the top) after giving it some more thought. I think we could expect a £5M drop in income. Sounds drastic - but I really believe a £6M wage bill could produce a better squad that the current one, and save a further £6M. That's the possibility of £1m saving, a fresh squad AND still a very competitive wage bill for the division.

Nobody could argue that relegation would be good overall, but the huge overspend on our current dross does present some real opportunity.

UTB

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

I'd rather finish 21st in the Championship next season than 1st in League One.

Now that's something I can wholeheartedly disagree with....

UTB

 

[Selly]

"Right lads, the world hasn't ended so the only way is up from here".

You may want to check this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_league_system#The_system

---------- Post added at 09:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 AM ----------

I'd rather finish 21st in the Championship next season than 1st in League One.

Given the choice, I'm not sure I would.

The problem with relegation is you don`t know when (if ever) you are going to return. Offer me a guaranteed return & league title, in a years time (with the associated clear out having occurred) and I might just bite your hand off...

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I'd rather finish 21st in the Championship next season than 1st in League One.

Really ?

I'd hazard a guess that most who are saying going down wouldn't be a good thing would change their minds if they knew we would come straight back up as Champions.

 

[alcoblade]

I've witnessed 5 promotions, 3 from the lower leagues. I've enjoyed every one thoroughly. I've never enjoyed bottom half finishes though in a perverse way, the premiership season was good fun.

UTB

 

[lenners]

Total TV revenue is about £100M, falling to £80M the season after next. That suggests about a £2.5M drop in TV revenue. I'd expect a £2M drop in gate revenue (les sif we're challenging at the top) after giving it some more thought. I think we could expect a £5M drop in income. Sounds drastic - but I really believe a £6M wage bill could produce a better squad that the current one, and save a further £6M. That's the possibility of £1m saving, a fresh squad AND still a very competitive wage bill for the division.

Nobody could argue that relegation would be good overall, but the huge overspend on our current dross does present some real opportunity.

UTB

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------



Now that's something I can wholeheartedly disagree with....

UTB

Think you're being very optimistic with those figures in terms of losses.
Our income is about to be slashed and it isn't just player wages that a club needs to pay.
All the other staff, the leccy bills, stadium upkeep, academy upkeep etc, etc.
When you think how much we were already losing in the Championship, the figures are going to be pretty horrendous in League One.

 

[Tuns]

Think you're being very optimistic with those figures in terms of losses.
Our income is about to be slashed and it isn't just player wages that a club needs to pay.
All the other staff, the leccy bills, stadium upkeep, academy upkeep etc, etc.
When you think how much we were already losing in the Championship, the figures are going to be pretty horrendous in League One.

Fortunatley we had the foresight to sell the Kyles or we'd be in a right mess now.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Fortunatley we had the foresight to sell the Kyles or we'd be in a right mess now.

Or we could have had two Prem class fullbacks this season and kept a few more clean sheets, stayed up and sold them for £8M each. Would that have been less of a mess?

 

[alcoblade]

Think you're being very optimistic with those figures in terms of losses.
Our income is about to be slashed and it isn't just player wages that a club needs to pay.
All the other staff, the leccy bills, stadium upkeep, academy upkeep etc, etc.
When you think how much we were already losing in the Championship, the figures are going to be pretty horrendous in League One.

Remember, lots of our losses were due to the things we've now offloaded (Pproperty, Chengdu). Surely by far our biggest cost from now on is players wages.

Give me your estimations, would you?

UTB

 

[Tuns]

Or we could have had two Prem class fullbacks this season and kept a few more clean sheets, stayed up and sold them for £8M each. Would that have been less of a mess?

I wasn't being serious!

Out of the many big and easily avoidable mistakes we've made in recent seasons selling the Kyles is possibly only rivalled by the appointment of Robson on the stupidity scale and on the long term damage done to the club both on and off the pitch.

Actually going into admin a couple of years ago would have been far less painful or damaging to the club (putting aside the moral issue of not paying creditors) instead we are having a kind of three year admin of selling our players off and at the end of it we still have all the debt and no obvious way out except to hope we can keep selling our best players.

 

[davidpinder]

If i had a crystal ball that told me we'd finish 1st in league one, not go into admin (obviously), put together a nice squad, take 6 points off pigs, take 6 points off town duck and enjoyed some 4-0, 5-0 and 6-0 wins then YES we would be better off going down but unfortunately i don't have a crystal ball and all i can see if we do go down is not good.

 

[Bladesway]

If i had a crystal ball that told me we'd finish 1st in league one, not go into admin (obviously), put together a nice squad, take 6 points off pigs, take 6 points off town duck and enjoyed some 4-0, 5-0 and 6-0 wins then YES we would be better off going down but unfortunately i don't have a crystal ball and all i can see if we do go down is not good.

I don't either but I can tell you none of the above will happen.

 

[lenners]

Remember, lots of our losses were due to the things we've now offloaded (Pproperty, Chengdu). Surely by far our biggest cost from now on is players wages.

Give me your estimations, would you?

UTB

Our biggest losses/outgoings were always related to player wages.
Not going to be any different next season.
We already can't afford to pay them and that won't change next year.
We've got agreements to make repayments to banks which we will have to fulfil unless we can renegotiate (and pay more interest).
The only way we can survive is if McCabe puts in more money or we can borrow more.
Don't forget, by the way, that we're going to be debt-free by 2013 was it?
Or that we're a well-run (into the ground) club.

 

[Balham]

Our biggest losses/outgoings were always related to player wages.

Not true. Our biggest loss last year was the £10m loss on revaluation of property which won't happen again.

However, we also funded a lot of our wages last season with the money received from the sale of Walker and Naughton to Spurs - which might help to explain why Walker was sold too. Profit and loss doesn't kill many businesses - it's a lack of cash which does.

 

[Grecian2000]

Really ?

I'd hazard a guess that most who are saying going down wouldn't be a good thing would change their minds if they knew we would come straight back up as Champions.

Since the turn of the Century (i.e. the last 10 seasons) this has happened TWICE. Only one other team has managed automatic promotion in that time. Two others (and maybe Peterborough this season) have gone straight back via the play-offs.
So that's 5 (possibly 6) teams out of 30 have "bounced". Not great odds.

On the other hand, in that time only 3 (including Plymouth this season) will have dropped straight through so that's comforting.

Overall, out of the 30, 13 have been promoted back to Div2 whilst 12 have dropped down to Div4, so it's about evens on which way you'll get out of the division overall.

 

[davidpinder]

I don't either but I can tell you none of the above will happen.

You don't fancy us to take 6 pints off pigs or chessy??

 

[lenners]

Not true. Our biggest loss last year was the £10m loss on revaluation of property which won't happen again.

However, we also funded a lot of our wages last season with the money received from the sale of Walker and Naughton to Spurs - which might help to explain why Walker was sold too. Profit and loss doesn't kill many businesses - it's a lack of cash which does.

I seem to recall our wage bill last year was around £20m, possibly more.
The biggest burden which we couldn't and cannot afford has been and will be wages.

 

[Balham]

I seem to recall our wage bill last year was around £20m, possibly more.
The biggest burden which we couldn't and cannot afford has been and will be wages.

According to Trevor Birch, it was £14m last season. I'd agree that this is by far our biggest expense.

http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10418~2020221,00.html - search for "on the wage bill"

 

[lenners]

According to Trevor Birch, it was £14m last season. I'd agree that this is by far our biggest expense.

http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10418~2020221,00.html - search for "on the wage bill"

Haven't got the accounts handy but I thought our overall wage bill was substantially more than £14m.

 

[alcoblade]

I seem to recall our wage bill last year was around £20m, possibly more.
The biggest burden which we couldn't and cannot afford has been and will be wages.

My entire point is based around contracts being negotiable as a result of relegation. You don't seem to acknowledge this? Clearly is we go into the third division with the same wagebill, we're in trouble. IF these contracts are re negotiable as a result of relegation, then it's a different thing. Do you see what I'm saying?

UTB

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I seem to recall our wage bill last year was around £20m, possibly more.
The biggest burden which we couldn't and cannot afford has been and will be wages.

http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/PLC/0,,10418~1081124,00.html

This link shows the accounts for most years but not 2009-2010.
The total "First team cost (Players and Management)" was £17.5M in 2009 down from £18.5M in 2008.
On that basis £14M for 2010 and £12M for 2011 sounds about right.
You don't mind me talking about money do you Len?

 

[lenners]

http://www.sufc.co.uk/page/PLC/0,,10418~1081124,00.html

This link shows the accounts for most years but not 2009-2010.
The total "First team cost (Players and Management)" was £17.5M in 2009 down from £18.5M in 2008.
On that basis £14M for 2010 and £12M for 2011 sounds about right.
You don't mind me talking about money do you Len?

No problem at all.
I was talking about our wage bill which I thought was in excess of £20m.
I guess it'll be around about £20m then.

 

[Bladeboy96]

Going down could be an opportunity to load off some unwanted players that are left from the warnock era i.e. monty, quinny etc....

 

[Big Mart]

FFS I can't believe this is still doing the rounds. It's not a serious question, it's a stupid one. How on earth can getting relegated to a twatting pub league be good for us? We gave the scum some serious shit about playing the likes of Yeovil, Dagenham and Redbridge, Walsall etc and now we're supposed to enthuse about the fact that we'll be playing them next season?

Get a grip, we'll be playing against shit like this, and with that tool (McCabe) still spinning his bollocks we'll be lucky to finish top half.

Absolute disaster getting relegated, the only good thing may be that we get rid of Monty, footballing retard but apart from that this could be the biggest crisis this club has ever faced.

No two ways about it, we're a club in decline with no plan in place to get out of it. Putting it mildly, we're fucked.

 

[Northyorksblade]

Now come on Horace, don't pussy foot about, say what you REALLY mean.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

FFS I can't believe this is still doing the rounds. It's not a serious question, it's a stupid one. How on earth can getting relegated to a twatting pub league be good for us? We gave the scum some serious shit about playing the likes of Yeovil, Dagenham and Redbridge, Walsall etc and now we're supposed to enthuse about the fact that we'll be playing them next season?

Get a grip, we'll be playing against shit like this, and with that tool (McCabe) still spinning his bollocks we'll be lucky to finish top half.

Absolute disaster getting relegated, the only good thing may be that we get rid of Monty, footballing retard but apart from that this could be the biggest crisis this club has ever faced.

No two ways about it, we're a club in decline with no plan in place to get out of it. Putting it mildly, we're fucked.

Lighten up there's a royal wedding today.

 

[alcoblade]

Lighten up there's a royal wedding today.

I know. Does anyone own a vice that I could squeeze my balls in instead?

UTB

 

[GAZBLADE]

Relegation would force the whole club to take stock of every penny that goes out of it. So, from that point of view we could ship out any overpaid shite throughout the whole club. But, in reality, relegation wouldn't be better no.
UTB

Oh, and alco. I've got a vice in shed, but, i'm afraid i'll be using it as opposed to watchin that Royal shite!

 

[Big Mart]

Lighten up there's a royal wedding today.

It is now Les, and I can't wait. Got some Netto cider, ox tongue sarnies and am glued to the telly. At last we can have a day when we aren't supposed to be ashamed for being English.

God Save The Queen :croc:

 

[alcoblade]

At last we can have a day when we aren't supposed to be ashamed for being English.

Are you saying that Kate Middleton would get it?

UTB