Sat back or keeping it in the corner?

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I agree with those who found the tactics embarrassing with 4 minutes normal time remaining. Fans were also confused with the anger Clough was showing to the players throughout that period. It appeared he was against the tactic, or was he?

In that period Garner had a real strop with some home supporters, presumably in frustration at their naivety and for not supporting the players.

In truth, against a very poor Crawley team, the tactic demonstrated just how low we are on confidence. Of course we should not sling speculative crosses in but in normal circumstances we should exercise patient control of the ball and hope to draw the opposition out then get them on the counter attack. With yesterday's players performing at that level,we are a million miles from the ideal approach and the tactic showed how vulnerable we are mentally.
 

I couldn't give a shit if we give the ball to a player and crowd round him so other players can't get to him...a win...clean sheet and three points are all that matter to me.
 
It's amazing, other teams kill off a game and they're seen as professional, when we do it our own fans boo us. I couldn't believe what I heard yesterday.

West Brom had 2-3 games last season where they couldn't kill games off and the one they did win was on MOTD where their fans were screaming at them to get the ball in the corner, and cheering celebrating when they did this and finally won a game.

The booing when Harris was trying to kill a game in injury time for us was nothing short of disgraceful.
 
Agree, I have always said the FIFA should introduce a new ruling to stop these time wasting antics such as award a corner for the opposition if the winning team holds the ball in the corners for more than 5 seconds

A blog piece on this from MIke Ticher:



Nobody should be putting football in the corner
Timewasting tactic needs outlawing
icon_cornerflag.jpg
19 February
~Of all football's dismal afflictions, is there anything worse than watching a player break free in the dying moments of a tight game, only to veer off towards the corner flag to waste time in a bout of ungainly wrestling while opponents take their frustration out on his ankles? Actually, yes. Many other things are much worse, including widespread match-fixing, giving the World Cup to Qatar and Stephen Ireland's house. But none of these has an easy and obvious solution, whereas the blight of corner-flag timewasting does.

That resolution does not need a change in the laws on timewasting (dealt with under the provision "delaying the restart of play") but instead simply to include the blatant refusal to keep the ball in open play under the definition of "unsporting conduct", which is already punishable by a free-kick and yellow card.

I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to eliminate the ugly pantomime that infuriates crowds and often causes tempers to fray on the field. I can see two objections to a new interpretation of the rules. First, it's too hard to define the offence because sometimes play becomes stuck in the corner in the normal course of events. Second, it's a bad idea to make rules that require the referee to judge the intention of the player – what is going on in their mind rather than what they do.

I don't think either is sustainable. We already have many laws that demand an interpretation of intent (though none that involve tackling, despite so many commentators' protestations). Whether a player has deliberately passed back to the goalkeeper, whether he or she has dived to win a free-kick, or stopped in their run-up to gain an unfair advantage while taking a penalty – all require a ruling on intent.

The same is true in other sports. In Australian rules, a code I've previously argued would repay study by football's lawmakers, players are not allowed to deliberately put the ball out of play. Naturally this leads to a certain amount of dispute at times over what constitutes "deliberate". But as with preventing the corner-flag farrago, the point of the law is not to eliminate all grey areas. It's to plant the seed of doubt into the mind of a player who wants to blatantly slow down the game.

This is where the first objection also falls down. Yes, there are times when a team defending a lead is happy to see the ball trapped at the other end of the field. But it's not hard to tell the difference between that and the times when a player has a clear opportunity to keep an attack going, yet chooses to run the ball to the corner.

Football's lawmakers have done a pretty good job of curbing the worst physical assaults in the past 20 years or so. Now it's time to get serious about the less dangerous but intensely irritating practices that interrupt the free flow of the game. Just don't get me started on kicking the ball out of play when someone goes down injured.
 
I thought the booing was disgraceful, but people pay their money, they are entitled to boo if they want. The three points will be valuable come May, but at the moment we are not playing with any verve or rhythm. I fear that until we do, the top teams like PNE next week will turn us over.
 
...which do people prefer?

because I know at 1-0 up into stoppage time, I'm not going to be booing Bob Harris for deciding to take it into the corner rather than cross to an empty box.

I'd rather that, than us be sat deep and inviting the opposition on.

Simples. We're not playing well and you take the win. With 4 minutes remaining we killed 3 minutes yet the twats were shouting for us to get it in the box. We then killed a few more minutes down the left and lost it because the fans wanted it in the box. 30 Seconds later they had a corner and nearly scored. Points make prizes so keep it in the corner.
 
It's amazing, other teams kill off a game and they're seen as professional, when we do it our own fans boo us. I couldn't believe what I heard yesterday.

West Brom had 2-3 games last season where they couldn't kill games off and the one they did win was on MOTD where their fans were screaming at them to get the ball in the corner, and cheering celebrating when they did this and finally won a game.

The booing when Harris was trying to kill a game in injury time for us was nothing short of disgraceful.

Speaking generally, I think a lot of people would appreciate one set of fans not embracing their team's cynical, unsporting and cowardly actions of trying to prevent football from being played.
 
Simples. We're not playing well and you take the win. With 4 minutes remaining we killed 3 minutes yet the twats were shouting for us to get it in the box. We then killed a few more minutes down the left and lost it because the fans wanted it in the box. 30 Seconds later they had a corner and nearly scored. Points make prizes so keep it in the corner.

If it's effective, and that's all that matters, why didn't we start doing it from the 49th minute yesterday?
 
If it's effective, and that's all that matters, why didn't we start doing it from the 49th minute yesterday?

Give it 24 hours and people will be suggesting we did.
 
If it's effective, and that's all that matters, why didn't we start doing it from the 49th minute yesterday?

With 4 minutes of normal time to go and a team desperate to hold on for a win. Could you imagine if we had got the ball in the box and they pumped the ball down the pitch and scored. We are not playing well enough
to be cocky
 
The funny thing about all this is they still managed to win a corner at the end. So what we were doing nearly didn't work. And we were burned doing it in the Wilson era (Oldham home)

We are saying to the opposition "we've done. We're not going to try to score again." Pathetic.
 
The funny thing about all this is they still managed to win a corner at the end. So what we were doing nearly didn't work. And we were burned doing it in the Wilson era (Oldham home)

We are saying to the opposition "we've done. We're not going to try to score again." Pathetic.

And "We're scared and have no confidence in our own ability to avoid a total collapse if this game is going to played fairly for 90 minutes."
 

The funny thing about all this is they still managed to win a corner at the end. So what we were doing nearly didn't work. And we were burned doing it in the Wilson era (Oldham home)

We are saying to the opposition "we've done. We're not going to try to score again." Pathetic.
But that one corner could have been 2,3 or 4 corners had we not waisted the time before hand, increasing the chance of conceding.

Don't like to see it but if it equates to three points its not something we can argue with, especially at this stage. One we get a more confident team we can pass the ball to keep possession but the thought of doing that worries me at the moment!

So why not do it from the 49th minute?

They don't play 3 up top from the 49th minute and throw the kitchen sink (and keeper) at us so little point when we have space and time?
 
Because that's more than enough to time for us to self destruct

I'll give you my answer, it's because fans would hate it. We go to football matches to see who's the better team over 90 minutes.

There are a few ways to try make us momentarily look a bit better than we are. Time wasting is one of them, diving is another (got us two bookings in the first match). Pretending to be injured so that opposition players can get sent off may be a bonus. Match fixing is another method that's been tried. I don't want it.

I want good organisation, focus, the right mix of attributes, hard work and intensity of defending to be kept until the final whistle. That's how to avoid a collapse when the likes of Crawley Town come at us.
 
I'll give you my answer, it's because fans would hate it. We go to football matches to see who's the better team over 90 minutes.

There are a few ways to try make us momentarily look a bit better than we are. Time wasting is one of them, diving is another (got us two bookings in the first match). Pretending to be injured so that opposition players can get sent off may be a bonus. Match fixing is another method that's been tried. I don't want it.

I want good organisation, focus, the right mix of attributes, hard work and intensity of defending to be kept until the final whistle. That's how to avoid a collapse when the likes of Crawley Town come at us.

To be fair to the team, they did try and finish them off and we had the chances. We didn't and it just makes sense in the last few minutes to hold on to what you've got. You see it in every game of every season when a team is winning by only a goal.

After the start to the season we have had, you get wins by hook or by crook and then we will get better. We are still looking very poor right now.
 
A blog piece on this from MIke Ticher:



Nobody should be putting football in the corner
Timewasting tactic needs outlawing
icon_cornerflag.jpg
19 February
~Of all football's dismal afflictions, is there anything worse than watching a player break free in the dying moments of a tight game, only to veer off towards the corner flag to waste time in a bout of ungainly wrestling while opponents take their frustration out on his ankles? Actually, yes. Many other things are much worse, including widespread match-fixing, giving the World Cup to Qatar and Stephen Ireland's house. But none of these has an easy and obvious solution, whereas the blight of corner-flag timewasting does.

That resolution does not need a change in the laws on timewasting (dealt with under the provision "delaying the restart of play") but instead simply to include the blatant refusal to keep the ball in open play under the definition of "unsporting conduct", which is already punishable by a free-kick and yellow card.

I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to eliminate the ugly pantomime that infuriates crowds and often causes tempers to fray on the field. I can see two objections to a new interpretation of the rules. First, it's too hard to define the offence because sometimes play becomes stuck in the corner in the normal course of events. Second, it's a bad idea to make rules that require the referee to judge the intention of the player – what is going on in their mind rather than what they do.

I don't think either is sustainable. We already have many laws that demand an interpretation of intent (though none that involve tackling, despite so many commentators' protestations). Whether a player has deliberately passed back to the goalkeeper, whether he or she has dived to win a free-kick, or stopped in their run-up to gain an unfair advantage while taking a penalty – all require a ruling on intent.

The same is true in other sports. In Australian rules, a code I've previously argued would repay study by football's lawmakers, players are not allowed to deliberately put the ball out of play. Naturally this leads to a certain amount of dispute at times over what constitutes "deliberate". But as with preventing the corner-flag farrago, the point of the law is not to eliminate all grey areas. It's to plant the seed of doubt into the mind of a player who wants to blatantly slow down the game.

This is where the first objection also falls down. Yes, there are times when a team defending a lead is happy to see the ball trapped at the other end of the field. But it's not hard to tell the difference between that and the times when a player has a clear opportunity to keep an attack going, yet chooses to run the ball to the corner.

Football's lawmakers have done a pretty good job of curbing the worst physical assaults in the past 20 years or so. Now it's time to get serious about the less dangerous but intensely irritating practices that interrupt the free flow of the game. Just don't get me started on kicking the ball out of play when someone goes down injured.
I remember talking to a Liverpool fan (who is now in his 70's) about 30 years ago. He was recalling going to away matches with Liverpool in the 1960s and said that he remembered being annoyed with the Blades players at Bramall Lane in one match because we were winning and "wasting time" kicking the ball towards the cricket pavillion and the ball boys would be "slow" in retrieving the ball! In the next day I told my dad about what the Liverpool fan told me, my dad replied "the other teams would do the same if they were winning at our ground!"
 
Agree, I have always said the FIFA should introduce a new ruling to stop these time wasting antics such as award a corner for the opposition if the winning team holds the ball in the corners for more than 5 seconds

Good points as ever, Silent. However, I'm sure most fans (or players) don't understand time-wasting etc. When the board went up with '4' minutes extra to be played, a few around me were saying 'Where's he got that from? The trainers haven't been on the pitch!' Except it's all changed and refs. allow for time taken for substitutions, players (Baxter!) taking a full minute to amble off the pitch etc.

It's a toughie. If the visiting team are blatantly time-wasting, the crowd howl at the ref. to make sure he's noting it and will add time on. But what if the time-wasting team score in this added time?
 
I thought the booing was disgraceful, but people pay their money, they are entitled to boo if they want. The three points will be valuable come May, but at the moment we are not playing with any verve or rhythm. I fear that until we do, the top teams like PNE next week will turn us over.

It tells PNE to get at us as we are fragile.
 
The funny thing about all this is they still managed to win a corner at the end. So what we were doing nearly didn't work. And we were burned doing it in the Wilson era (Oldham home)

We are saying to the opposition "we've done. We're not going to try to score again." Pathetic.

That's nonsense. Are you saying they would not have won a corner in any event? You can criticise our tactics in the last eight minutes (it was eight but it's expanding all the time) for a number of good reasons, but don't pretend it wasn't effective. You can use "nearly didn't work" to justify almost anything. It's absurd. The tactic was not entertaining; indeed it was frustrating, but a silly inversion of "it worked" (and it did) doesn't advance your point at all - quite the contrary. You'd do better to make the point that we need to improve significantly so that we have no need of such tactics against Crawley and similar.
 
Im sorry but with at least 10 mins of the game remaining it was emabarrassing
With 3 or 4 remaing fair enough didnt we concede doing the same thing a couple of seasons ago
Its not as if we are great at defending either
We are not actually good enough to keep possession, slow the game down, and stay safe. Even holding the ball in the corner carries risks as we are a poor side.
 
I'll give you my answer, it's because fans would hate it. We go to football matches to see who's the better team over 90 minutes.

No we don't. The vast majority of us go to support our team and see them win! Some of us (not enough) also value the aesthetic pleasure of the "beautiful game" but very much want to experience such from our team, not the opposition.

There are a few ways to try make us momentarily look a bit better than we are. Time wasting is one of them, diving is another (got us two bookings in the first match). Pretending to be injured so that opposition players can get sent off may be a bonus. Match fixing is another method that's been tried. I don't want it.

Are you seriously equating "keep-ball in the corners" with match-fixing?

I want good organisation, focus, the right mix of attributes, hard work and intensity of defending to be kept until the final whistle. That's how to avoid a collapse when the likes of Crawley Town come at us.

Keeping the ball is far and away the best method of avoiding a collapse. Quite simply, the opposition cannot score without it. It would be infinitely preferable and a lot less frustrating for everyone, however, to keep it in places a bit further from the corner flag.
 
Speaking generally, I think a lot of people would appreciate one set of fans not embracing their team's cynical, unsporting and cowardly actions of trying to prevent football from being played.
Uncle Nigel is entirely to blame for the timewasting.
 
A lof of people have said:

"Football is meant to be played on the deck"

And that's exactly where we played it for almost the whole of the last 8 minutes.

Pretty it wasn't, effective it certainly was.

I didn't enjoy the non spectacle but Davies should have sealed it in that period and I certainly enjoyed the result.
 

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