Outgoing? SANDER BERGE ON WAY OUT ?

[robbiez666]

Apologies for picking on this line of your post, but if you, or anyone else thinks that we get the money from his sale to be spent on replacements you are in cloud cuckoo land, a fact that has been proven almost every time we have sold an asset.

So, if we got £15 million we wouldn't get any money to improve the team or facilities? I wouldn't expect to get it all but I'd expect £5 million.

 

[Yogi]

MGW might have been ineffective in game, but he never went missing.

Berge on the other hand...


For what it's worth, I think he's a huge talent with great potential and I do agree that, surrounded by better players he could showcase his skillset more often.
I had a debate recently in shoutbox where I referenced all of the above but still concluded that there's no way he is worth £15-20m to us. If (and it's obviously a massive "if") we were allowed to reinvest the proceeds from his sale then I think we could make ourselves a far better, more balanced team with a few signings in different areas.

MGW would also cost significantly more than we paid for Berge. Everton have had a 25 million pound bid turned down and haven’t bother to go back in for him. That suggests Wolves asking price was either significantly higher than 25 or the second word was simply off.

 

[AnstonBlade1]

So, if we got £15 million we wouldn't get any money to improve the team or facilities? I wouldn't expect to get it all but I'd expect £5 million.

Hecky wouldn’t see a penny pal

 

[CaptainMorgans]

As a 34 year old blade I think MGW is the single most talented and one of the most hard working players I’ve ever seen in a blades shirt - he really was a joy to watch last season. So far he’s a one in a lifetime for me and not really comparable to anyone else

If we had 22 million in the bank now would we buy Berge? No, we wouldn’t. It would probably be spent on new facilities and split more evenly across the playing staff.

We bought him when circumstances were different but he’s here. The board obviously value their investment and Hecky obviously values him as both a player and a person.

We need to back him and get the best out of him in hope we can either recoup most of that investment or gain promotion again.

This isn’t aimed at you, but it’s irritating reading post after post slagging off Berge when apart from N’Diaye there were 9 (Wes excluded) bang average performances plus subs. Berge is actually one of the other 9 who has actual ability and potential to influence the season where several of the others seem to be well past their best. He certainly was no where near the worst on the pitch Monday, I’d say he was our second best outfield player.

... and that's also why he receives so much extra attention.
Because we know what he can do and we know how often he doesn't do it.
It's the frustration factor.

 

[alcoblade]

I thought he played well especially first half
Didn't take you long to stick the boot in again ,god knows what you'd be like if he did actually have a bad game

There’s no sticking the boot in there - I’m addressing a poster who is saying he didn’t perform because of everyone else.

I’ve said very little about Berge’s performance the other night - I’ve picked up on other people excusing him for not performing once again.

 

[alcoblade]

You mean squad as in still not good enough to start in premier league

If you’re going to argue good to argue he is in a squad based on his talent then you have to acknowledge he hasn’t been good enough to start yet

The point really wasn’t about MGW though. Berge is still with us for a reason - and it’s not because we play him in the wrong position every week, or because he’s just too quick in thought for everyone, or everyone doesn't pass to him, or everyone doesn’t make space for him*. The answer is much simpler than that.

*Just a selection of excuses from only the very recent posts!

 

[alcoblade]

Plus going on that logic, Gibbs-White was able to drag everyone up towards his level because that's what really good players do. Berge apparently just gets dragged down the level of everyone else. Berge may be "five steps in front of everybody else" but that translates to him looking very ordinary, Gibbs-White was able to make himself stand out.

Exactly this.

 

[Revolution]

Paul Coutts looked shit when playing with shit players. As soon as we put mobile players who wanted the ball around him he was a Rolls Royce.

That was part of the reason. The main reason for his improvement (as he has admitted since) was that he actually started to try hard after coasting for 18 months not wishing to re-injure himself. Wilder giving him a rocket and transfer listing him had the desired effect.

Having said that, Heckingbottom doesn't strike me as someone who gives people verbal rockets.

 

[Brownieblade]

The point really wasn’t about MGW though. Berge is still with us for a reason - and it’s not because we play him in the wrong position every week, or because he’s just too quick in thought for everyone, or everyone doesn't pass to him, or everyone doesn’t make space for him*. The answer is much simpler than that.

*Just a selection of excuses from only the very recent posts!

Well the simple answer is he is at a lower league club and clubs are holding out rightfully in the hope the lower league club will end up selling for far less

Plus he plays a specific position which is understandably not valued as much by teams

 

[alcoblade]

Well the simple answer is he is at a lower league club and clubs are holding out rightfully in the hope the lower league club will end up selling for far less

Plus he plays a specific position which is understandably not valued as much by teams

If cash rich premier league clubs thought we'd got a star on our hands, he's have gone by now - simple as that.

Out of interest, as a fan, what would you say his position is? It would be informative for people to state that, rather than the seemingly ubiquitous "not in the one we play him in".

 

[Brownieblade]

If cash rich premier league clubs thought we'd got a star on our hands, he's have gone by now - simple as that.

Out of interest, as a fan, what would you say his position is? It would be informative for people to state that, rather than the seemingly ubiquitous "not in the one we play him in".

Not really if cash ripped clubs already had a starting player and a backup in place, if we where still a prem league team then it’s plausible someone takes the plunge simply because they doubt a prem club would sell for cheap

As for where to play him, IMO he was brought in to play as a sitting midfielder alongside Norwood in a prem team squad where we would have played majority of games defensively set up

When Wilder left and we got relegated the narrative changed from then, we then became a team not expected to just try and survive each year to a team in a league where most teams would not play as expansively as prem teams

 

[alcoblade]

Not really if cash ripped clubs already had a starting player and a backup in place, if we where still a prem league team then it’s plausible someone takes the plunge simply because they doubt a prem club would sell for cheap

As for where to play him, IMO he was brought in to play as a sitting midfielder alongside Norwood in a prem team squad where we would have played majority of games defensively set up

When Wilder left and we got relegated the narrative changed from then, we then became a team not expected to just try and survive each year to a team in a league where most teams would not play as expansively as prem teams

I've liked your post for being constructive, but it does feel that the Berge bingo excuses are even being applied for the reason other teams don't want him.

There's an elephant in the room here chaps.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

20m and if he dosent want to be here.. he can go for me.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I've liked your post for being constructive, but it does feel that the Berge bingo excuses are even being applied for the reason other teams don't want him.

There's an elephant in the room here chaps.

The money it would take to get him, circa £18-22m, is the going rate for a bog standard PL player. Nobody has offered it.
Which says he's it at the level he belongs, for now.

I've no doubt in his ability, potential etc. but unless he's scored and assisted half a dozen by January then I can't see why they'll be banging down our door for him.

 

[alcoblade]

The money it would take to get him, circa £18-22m, is the going rate for a bog standard PL player. Nobody has offered it.
Which says he's it at the level he belongs, for now.

I've no doubt in his ability, potential etc. but unless he's scored and assisted half a dozen by January then I can't see why they'll be banging down our door for him.

I'm sure we'd deal at a lot less than that, but that's purely my opinion.

 

[LurkerBlade]

Maybe teams are thinking "lets tap him up when he's free" rather than paying the going rate, maybe he's not worth much less but the teams after him are happy to be patient?
Also haven't seen any proof that we are still a team that keep money and doesn't re-invest? We haven't had a big sale in a few years yet have still picked up Anel and paid decent loan fees (which is exactly the strategy that was outlined when we got relegated)

 

[Mouth of the South]

Maybe teams are thinking "lets tap him up when he's free" rather than paying the going rate, maybe he's not worth much less but the teams after him are happy to be patient?
Also haven't seen any proof that we are still a team that keep money and doesn't re-invest? We haven't had a big sale in a few years yet have still picked up Anel and paid decent loan fees (which is exactly the strategy that was outlined when we got relegated)

Possibly although I'm not sure many clubs would do so for a 24 year old (who will be 26 when they're free)

I think it's more a matter of Utd holding out for an amount that nobody is willing to pay (at the moment). Let's see what happens over the next month. The way things are going, Leicester will be in need of a few players. It may also depend on how teams start the season, suffer any injuries etc. and that's just the Prem teams.

It would be interesting to understand what Utd's red lines are in terms of consideration, structuring of payments, contingent payments etc. Standing your ground seemed to work for Brighton in the case of Sideshow Bob but it helps if Man C and Chelsea are vying for your player.

TBH though I'm not sure many English clubs will see Berge as the answer to their issues/gaps (whatever they are). I see his game being far more suited to Spain, Germany or even Italy but there's less money sloshing around over there.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Maybe teams are thinking "lets tap him up when he's free" rather than paying the going rate, maybe he's not worth much less but the teams after him are happy to be patient?
Also haven't seen any proof that we are still a team that keep money and doesn't re-invest? We haven't had a big sale in a few years yet have still picked up Anel and paid decent loan fees (which is exactly the strategy that was outlined when we got relegated)

We sold Ramsdale for approx. £25m.
We've spent £3.5m in fees since.

 

[Mouth of the South]

We sold Ramsdale for approx. £25m.
We've spent £3.5m in fees since.

True but what was the drop in revenue between the relegation season and last season. There'll also be a further £5m reduction in parachute payments this season. All of these will need to be accounted for and it's simply not possible to hold a separate pot for playing staff transfers and salaries.

 

[LurkerBlade]

Forgot about Ramsdale already, I need to do some brain training!

 

[TJ blade]

Maybe teams are thinking "lets tap him up when he's free" rather than paying the going rate, maybe he's not worth much less but the teams after him are happy to be patient?
Also haven't seen any proof that we are still a team that keep money and doesn't re-invest? We haven't had a big sale in a few years yet have still picked up Anel and paid decent loan fees (which is exactly the strategy that was outlined when we got relegated)

Ramsdale?

 

[247Blade]

That was part of the reason. The main reason for his improvement (as he has admitted since) was that he actually started to try hard after coasting for 18 months not wishing to re-injure himself. Wilder giving him a rocket and transfer listing him had the desired effect.

Having said that, Heckingbottom doesn't strike me as someone who gives people verbal rockets.

What more like Sergent Wilson?

 

[Revolution]

What more like Sergent Wilson?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Elaborate please.

 

[BLADES1988]

Just seen wet spam have signed Cornet from Burnley for 17.5m. Berge should be shipped out if anyone offers anywhere near that for him. Cornet is a decent premier league player and Berge diddn't exactly pull up any trees int premier league.

I'm a fan of Berge but don't think he's worth what we paid for him now.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Just seen wet spam have signed Cornet from Burnley for 17.5m. Berge should be shipped out if anyone offers anywhere near that for him. Cornet is a decent premier league player and Berge diddn't exactly pull up any trees int premier league.

I'm a fan of Berge but don't think he's worth what we paid for him now.

Great point, Cornet has performed at the highest level and an international. Anything above 20m for berge is daylight robbery.

 

[247Blade]

What more like Sergent Wilson?

Timid as Sergeant Wilson in Dads Army doh?

 

[247Blade]

Just seen wet spam have signed Cornet from Burnley for 17.5m. Berge should be shipped out if anyone offers anywhere near that for him. Cornet is a decent premier league player and Berge diddn't exactly pull up any trees int premier league.

I'm a fan of Berge but don't think he's worth what we paid for him now.

That's an expensive ice cream

 

[BushBlade]

Great point, Cornet has performed at the highest level and an international. Anything above 20m for berge is daylight robbery.

Good deal for West Ham. Proven at PL level. My guess is that Burnley didn’t put a relegation clause in his contract and he’s on too much for a championship club to countenance, or they need to balance the books after bringing in all the new players.

Edit
That said, I didn’t realise he’ll be 26 in September.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Good deal for West Ham. Proven at PL level. My guess is that Burnley didn’t put a relegation clause in his contract and he’s on too much for a championship club to countenance, or they need to balance the books after bringing in all the new players.

Edit
That said, I didn’t realise he’ll be 26 in September.

Berge 25 in February aswell.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

MGW came across as a supreme competitor someone who was all about winning. JOC always came across the same way and billy does aswell players who go home genuinely gutted if we don’t get 3 points

On Monday night the camera panned in on Sander at the final whistle with a huge grin on his face chatting with a Watford player.