Salaries

[CopenhagenBlade]

What does everyone think is a realistic wage for a footballer to be earning? I think everyone throws these figures around without really thinking about it, 'He only wants £10k p/w'. This gives a yearly salary of over £500k p/a. How many on here earn close to this? I don't. And then comes the, 'but they only have a short time to earn the money'. Yes they do but they are not suddeny handicapped and unable to work when they stop being a professional footballer. After 1 year of playing they can have bought their house, without a mortgage and a nice car. A couple more years and they have a nice nest egg stashed away for the future. Another season gives them their holiday home. Another couple of years sets their children up . The other years are just extras.

So what if Huddersfield have paid Naysmith more than us. I think that this reflects worse on Huddersfield and 'another idiot chairman' who has more money than sense. A player that has been out all season with an injury and is getting to the end of his career. He spent a year taking our hard earned cash while he sat aroung doing nothing. Why are so many happy with this.

Now although I would like to see some new players coming in, ( I don't believe it will happen until July, as nothing ever does for us or for any club) I don't want us to offer silly salaries. I believe that in some ways this club is ahead of the curve on the salaries that we offer, trying to run the club within the budgets that we have. I think that it would only be a positive to see salary caps based on the income of the club so that we can avoid the scenarios of Portsmouth, Palace etc.

Football, like many European countries, is going to go through some tough years with lots of changes. This attitude of we will pay tomorrow, today we are going to spend is coming to a rather abrupt end. The buck is stopping here and we had better get used to it.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

It's really quite simple. The players realised that they are one of the main reasons we turn up each week to watch that dross so they want their cut of 25,000 X 25 quid.

Your comments on Huddersfield are quite interesting though, didn't they try this big spending stuff before when Bruce was manager and they grabbed Smith from us?

Footballers in the lower leagues are going to have a big reality check soon, but the most interesting thing for me with be the attitude of the Premiership players who aren't getting games. Will they take massive paycuts to get regular football or will they stick out their contracts? Personally I think squad players being loaned out to the Championship will be on the increase, unless Premiership clubs agree to subsidise the remainder of the players contract in order to slightly reduce their wage bill.

 

[H. Metal Blade]

Been in favour of a salary cap for a while now! but not based on club income as that would still skew bias towards the likes of your Man Utd and Man City etc...

there should be a set cap for the prem, a lower one for the champ, and so on so forth!

 

[LouTheBlade]

Interesting topic CB. IMO footballers earnings are as realistic as clubs are prepared to pay. Despite what people say about agents' and players' demands the transfer market is driven by clubs and their desire to move up the divisions. The more clubs compete and try to out bid each other, the more salaries and fees will be driven up. Players and agents will only demand what they feel they are capable of getting based on the buying behaviour of clubs.

It is the clubs and the owners that have caused this problems and they have slowly driven it out of control. Fans have played their part in this as well. The constant pressure and demand for success/spending has encouraged clubs to borrow more and seek different sources of revenue to secure deals against. Greed at all consumer levels is the overriding theme. We are paying the price for our unrealistic expectations if I'm honest:- because we're starting to see clubs go down the toilet.

The issue of a salary cap is a difficult one. It contradicts a lot of laws and EU regulations essentially. The idea of being able to prohibit how much someone earns is a) difficult to pass as a regulation and b) difficult to enforce.

 

[davidpinder]

To answer the original question lets look at it realistically. A decent player plays on average for 25 years and probably only 20% will get a coaching job after they finish so i would say a fair wage should be around £5000 p/w which is £20,000 per month which much be 3 times as much as a top earning average bloke. That should be enough to put away and live a nice comfortable life after there playing career is over. Even at our level you have to say the world has gone mad and football in england is in shit street.

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

'It is the clubs and the owners that have caused this problems and they have slowly driven it out of control.'

Agreed LtB. Not so long ago no one ver knew who the chairman was apart from maybe their own club. Now I could name most of the Premierleague chairmen. You would have thought that they would have learnt better that there isn't much money in owning a club, quite the opposite, but still you get people like the guy at Huddersfield popping up playing big shot.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I just don't see why there should be any wage caps, teams should be able to spend whatever they like. What needs removing is the safety net of Administration while keeping your players, league position (minus 10 points) etc. You should be out of the league and everyone can spend whatever they like.

 

[Jon Bon]

To answer the original question lets look at it realistically. A decent player plays on average for 25 years and probably only 20% will get a coaching job after they finish so i would say a fair wage should be around £5000 p/w which is £20,000 per month which much be 3 times as much as a top earning average bloke. That should be enough to put away and live a nice comfortable life after there playing career is over. Even at our level you have to say the world has gone mad and football in england is in shit street.

Bollox to that. They should go out and get a proper job when they finish playing football, idle bastards. Granted a small pecentage of them do but to say that they should get over-inflated salaries just so that they can retire early and spend all day on the golf course is ridiculous. Maybe my employer could pay me twice as much now so that I can retire in 10 years instead of 20...?

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

A Championship player should not earn any more than £5000 per week in my opinion.

 

[Ollessendro]

What does everyone think is a realistic wage for a footballer to be earning? I think everyone throws these figures around without really thinking about it, 'He only wants £10k p/w'. This gives a yearly salary of over £500k p/a. How many on here earn close to this? I don't. And then comes the, 'but they only have a short time to earn the money'. Yes they do but they are not suddeny handicapped and unable to work when they stop being a professional footballer. After 1 year of playing they can have bought their house, without a mortgage and a nice car. A couple more years and they have a nice nest egg stashed away for the future. Another season gives them their holiday home. Another couple of years sets their children up . The other years are just extras.

So what if Huddersfield have paid Naysmith more than us. I think that this reflects worse on Huddersfield and 'another idiot chairman' who has more money than sense. A player that has been out all season with an injury and is getting to the end of his career. He spent a year taking our hard earned cash while he sat aroung doing nothing. Why are so many happy with this.

Now although I would like to see some new players coming in, ( I don't believe it will happen until July, as nothing ever does for us or for any club) I don't want us to offer silly salaries. I believe that in some ways this club is ahead of the curve on the salaries that we offer, trying to run the club within the budgets that we have. I think that it would only be a positive to see salary caps based on the income of the club so that we can avoid the scenarios of Portsmouth, Palace etc.

Football, like many European countries, is going to go through some tough years with lots of changes. This attitude of we will pay tomorrow, today we are going to spend is coming to a rather abrupt end. The buck is stopping here and we had better get used to it.

Really don't see the point of this thread or debate. It's simple economics. Supply and demand (for/of labour) gives you a market (wage) rate. It's like anything. Doctors earn more money thatn most because supply is very short and demand is very high. Supply is very short because of the skills, intelligence and training involved. Sure with sportsmen it is a little different. But the reason why David Beckham got paid 100k a week at Real Madrid was because very few (if any) people in the world could cross a ball like he does. It is frustrating for the average worker to see footballers earning silly money, but it is simply (labour) economics.

 

[LouTheBlade]

I just don't see why there should be any wage caps, teams should be able to spend whatever they like. What needs removing is the safety net of Administration while keeping your players, league position (minus 10 points) etc. You should be out of the league and everyone can spend whatever they like.

This is probably the only realistic way forward. Although I wouldn't necessarily see it as a solution (so to speak). More like a bigger deterrant as it would probably force the majority of clubs to manager themselves better. You will still get greedy owners driving certain clubs out of business though........

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

But the reason why David Beckham got paid 100k a week at Real Madrid was because very few (if any) people in the world could cross a ball like he does.

That's rubbish.

He was paid £100k+ per week because he was the most famous footballer on planet earth.

 

[LouTheBlade]

Really don't see the point of this thread or debate. It's simple economics. Supply and demand (for/of labour) gives you a market (wage) rate. It's like anything. Doctors earn more money thatn most because supply is very short and demand is very high. Supply is very short because of the skills, intelligence and training involved. Sure with sportsmen it is a little different. But the reason why David Beckham got paid 100k a week at Real Madrid was because very few (if any) people in the world could cross a ball like he does. It is frustrating for the average worker to see footballers earning silly money, but it is simply (labour) economics.

This is along the lines of what I said earlier about clubs driving up the prices and going rate themselves. The more competitive one club becomes, the more it forces other clubs to dig deeper and so the chaos ensues. I wouldn't call it 'simple economics' though Olle. I would say it more like pure lunacy - with the lunatics running the asylum. I don't think anything about football finances is simple, its more over-complicated by those who manage it (directors, the league etc.) and then abused by those who jump on the band-wagon (players, agents etc.).

The market we are talking about is the way it is because of the people who make a living from it. Supply and demand is just a small part of it and this is highlighted by the fact that clubs are willing to spend vast sums on average players (dare I mention how Newcastle, Liverpool etc. have done this down the years).

Football finances have suffered for the same reason that the property market has suffered and it is down to the natural human instinct which is 'greed.' In principle this has caused a domino effect in both cases. You have players and agents asking for more money than a club can realistically afford. Clubs see the prospect of being able to sign a "star player" and feel that by borrowing x amount they can do it, not fearing what consequences lay ahead. The more players and agents ask for, the more this continually accentuates the problem........

Its the same with what happened in the property market. You had folk taking on mortgages and other lending arrangements that they hadnt a prayer on this planet of ever paying off. Mr Estate Agent and Mortgage Lender etc. didnt mind, because they got their cut, their commission. They were happy for people to get themselves into insurmountable debt; because they saw the short term benefits for themselves. Same principles with any mis-management of money:- greed and short-termism!

That IMO, is this whole argument in a nut shell.

 

[davidpinder]

That's rubbish.

He was paid £100k+ per week because he was the most famous footballer on planet earth.

And DB sells more merchandise than any other footballer and madrid take a massive percentage

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

If you don't see the point of the thread then don't bother answering it. It is not just about supply and demand it is also to do with fans who seem to have lost any sense of rality over the salaries that these players are earning. This is not Monopoly money but real money. I wantto see this club in existence in 10 years not destroyed because we chose to pay a load of players, who we can't even remember there names in 5 years time, a whole load of cash to come out and kiss the badge before moving on to the next big paycheck

 

[Bergen Blade]

If you don't see the point of the thread then don't bother answering it. It is not just about supply and demand it is also to do with fans who seem to have lost any sense of rality over the salaries that these players are earning. This is not Monopoly money but real money. I wantto see this club in existence in 10 years not destroyed because we chose to pay a load of players, who we can't even remember there names in 5 years time, a whole load of cash to come out and kiss the badge before moving on to the next big paycheck

Completely agree with you on everything Copenhagen. Football authorities are very slow to do something preventive about clubs' bad finances, althought they quite like putting administrations in place when someone have messed up, certainly if they're not a big name. Could fan power have changed it? Players wouldn't have been able to push the club to get those extra 2k a week or that extra year's contract if fans said 'decrease ticket prices, or we won't go'. Can't see it happening though as fans all across Europe, let alone the country would have had to unite.

 

[Ollessendro]

That's rubbish.

He was paid £100k+ per week because he was the most famous footballer on planet earth.

As much as it pains me to admit it you have a point here. I picked a very bad example. Well done Nuddy! Good point scored!!?? For reasons pointed out by DavidPinder (below) it was worthwhile paying Beckham vast sums of money.

For the vast majority of cases it is all about supply and demand. In fact it still is in the Beckham case. The reason why he is paid so much is because he is in short supply. How many other footballers are there who can cross very well , have brilliant passing ability, are married to a super star, are very good looking, have captained England doznes of times and are generally a super star??

And DB sells more merchandise than any other footballer and madrid take a massive percentage

. I wouldn't call it 'simple economics' though Olle. I would say it more like pure lunacy - with the lunatics running the asylum. I don't think anything about football finances is simple, its more over-complicated by those who manage it (directors, the league etc.) and then abused by those who jump on the band-wagon (players, agents etc.).

The market we are talking about is the way it is because of the people who make a living from it. Supply and demand is just a small part of it and this is highlighted by the fact that clubs are willing to spend vast sums on average players (dare I mention how Newcastle, Liverpool etc. have done this down the years).

Nope, supply and demand is all of it. All of the things that people mention (money from sky, fans, season tickets prices la de
da) all affect demand. Then there are the players (the supply). There are few players that are very good and hence you have a short supply. The demand is high because millions of people all over the world want to see quality football. What do you have? Short supply, high demand = high wages. Hey presto.

If you don't see the point of the thread then don't bother answering it. It is not just about supply and demand it is also to do with fans who seem to have lost any sense of rality over the salaries that these players are earning. This is not Monopoly money but real money. I wantto see this club in existence in 10 years not destroyed because we chose to pay a load of players, who we can't even remember there names in 5 years time, a whole load of cash to come out and kiss the badge before moving on to the next big paycheck

You're wrong! It really is about supply and demand. You can argue around the philosophical aspect, there being too much money in the game, etc etc, but the reason why footballers get paid so much is down to supply and demand.

Copenhagen, you ask what is a resonable wage a footballer should earn. I simply say the market rate. Supply of footballers and demand for footballers determine the wage that footballers get paid. If you want to debate the whole philosophical argument about should footballers get paid this much then you open another can of worms. I can't really answer that as I am not a philospher. However I am an economist and I can tell you that simple economics gives you a perfecly rational answers as to why footallers get paid what they do.

 

[Grecian2000]

How many other footballers are there who can cross very well , have brilliant passing ability, are married to a super star, are very good looking, have captained England doznes of times and are generally a super star??

Fuck me, did I miss him divorcing the stick insect/media whore and marrying Beyonce instead.

 

[LouTheBlade]

Nope, supply and demand is all of it. All of the things that people mention (money from sky, fans, season tickets prices la de
da) all affect demand. Then there are the players (the supply). There are few players that are very good and hence you have a short supply. The demand is high because millions of people all over the world want to see quality football. What do you have? Short supply, high demand = high wages. Hey presto.

But then you're looking at footballers and classing them as a commodity, which they are not. They are an asset to the club. One that may increase or depreciate in value.

High demand does not always drive up prices. In the retail world one would argue that it almost always does. In other industries high demand can lead to lower prices with companies working on smaller profit margins for products in order to beat their competition.

Football is an entirely different animal and one that I dont personally relate to the principle of supply and demand. In the example that you use above;

"Short supply, high demand = high wages" - this would mean that the short supply of genuine quality players would demand ridiculously high wages where as the remaining 'dross' if you like wouldn't be able to command anything close because they wouldnt be as desirable. It is a different market with different buying behaviour so is not comparable to the principle of supply and demand in my mind.

Think of it this way;

Example 1;
If you buy an ipod for say I dont know, £120 (I cant remember how much they cost so humour me). If they run out of ipods or you cant quite afford it, would you go and buy a much lesser known MP3 for £100 because it does something similar???? Answer: No, probably not because you want the ipod.

Example 2;
Barcelona try to buy Cesc Fabregas for £50M (ball park figure) but Arsenal reject the offer and once again insist he's not for sale. Will Barcelona go out and spend £30-40M on someone who isnt quite as good as Cesc (or wasnt their first choice)???? Answer: Yes, its quite possible that they will.

 

[Ollessendro]

But then you're looking at footballers and classing them as a commodity, which they are not. They are an asset to the club. One that may increase or depreciate in value.

High demand does not always drive up prices. In the retail world one would argue that it almost always does. In other industries high demand can lead to lower prices with companies working on smaller profit margins for products in order to beat their competition.

Football is an entirely different animal and one that I dont personally relate to the principle of supply and demand. In the example that you use above;

"Short supply, high demand = high wages" - this would mean that the short supply of genuine quality players would demand ridiculously high wages where as the remaining 'dross' if you like wouldn't be able to command anything close because they wouldnt be as desirable. It is a different market with different buying behaviour so is not comparable to the principle of supply and demand in my mind.

Think of it this way;

Example 1;
If you buy an ipod for say I dont know, £120 (I cant remember how much they cost so humour me). If they run out of ipods or you cant quite afford it, would you go and buy a much lesser known MP3 for £100 because it does something similar???? Answer: No, probably not because you want the ipod.

Example 2;
Barcelona try to buy Cesc Fabregas for £50M (ball park figure) but Arsenal reject the offer and once again insist he's not for sale. Will Barcelona go out and spend £30-40M on someone who isnt quite as good as Cesc (or wasnt their first choice)???? Answer: Yes, its quite possible that they will.

Im answer to your 1st point: no I am not. We are talking about supply and demand of labour. It is very similar but not quite the same.

Your 2nd point is true. It is the interaction of demand and supply that determines the market price (or market wage in this scenario). We've established that doctors get paid more than check out assistants because of supply and demand (there are few doctors because of skills, brains, training etc but anyone can be a check out operator). Do you accept that Lou?

Demand and supply of labour for footballers has exactly the same principle as demand and supply of labour for all other occupations. For example taking doctors. Why is it that the best knee surgeon in the UK eanrs more than an average surgeon? Because he is in short supply and high demand. Why is it that Christiano Ronaldo earns more than Chris Morgan. Because Christiano is more talented (therefore meaning in less supply) and more wanted (higher demand). You could hundreds of players who do the same as Morgs, but only 1 or 2 in the world who do it as well as Ronaldo.

Football is not a different animal. The remaining 'dross' will still earn different ranges depending on supply (which includes ability) and demand (which also includes ability). For reaons below you'll see (or should see) why Gary Naysmith eanrs more than Andrew Taylor, Steven Gerrard earns more than Luico, etc etc

I don't really see the relevance of your last point (the one with the examples). I-pods are more expensive than MP3 players because of supply and demand (as you say more people want an I-pod because it is better) and for the same reason Cesc Fabregas has a higher transfer value and will earn higher wages than James Beattie, Zultan Gera, Emilie Heskey and a host of other players (who are not as good as him).

 

[parisblade]

According to sky, salaries went up 11% in the premiership last year...

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6196155,00.html

 

[Ollessendro]

According to sky, salaries went up 11% in the premiership last year...

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6196155,00.html

there was a mention of this on FiveLive this morning. Apparently the Bundesliga is the highest profit making league and although the Premiership is richer (gains more revenue) they make less money because of the much higher slaries.

Do any of you economics doubters feel that it is pure coincidence that the standard of football, better players and bigger names are earning more money in the Premiership than in the Bundersliga???

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

They also have to factor in that the government paid for a vast proportion of the top leagues grounds upgrades and infrastructure costs on the back of the world cup bid.

That also makes it easier to charge less money for fans through the gates.

I'm sure Liverpool would agree to reduce prices if the government would pay for a nice chunk of a new 70,000 ground.

 

[SwissBlade]

Do any of you economics doubters feel that it is pure coincidence that the standard of football, better players and bigger names are earning more money in the Premiership than in the Bundersliga???

Where is the higher standard of football and where are the better players? I know where the overpaid chancers are

 

[Vancouver]

IN the NHL they reveal every players salary on the league website. Since the players don't really have a value for trade i.e. you don't buy a player from a team, you trade their rights for other players. The highest paid player next season is Roberto Luongo (the Canucks goalie) and he'll be paid $10.5 million for the year which makes up about 20% of our team's salary cap this year.

 

[Zinedine]

A wage cap will force the stars out of English football giving the good, English players a chance to play therefore increasing the chances of our national side gaining sucess and then causing other countries to follow suit.
Simple but not 100% garunteed to work. I am in favour of one though

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I think the likelihood is we'll see a LOT of loan activity after the end of the summer transfer windows, as the Premier league squad size cap comes in.

 

[SwissBlade]

A wage cap will force the stars out of English football giving the good, English players a chance to play therefore increasing the chances of our national side gaining sucess and then causing other countries to follow suit.
Simple but not 100% garunteed to work. I am in favour of one though

I think the important thing it'll do is force the Stars out and leave the dross - Overpaid Chancers... the experts thought that the 50% tax rate would see foreigners go elsewhere, but its so far not had much effect...

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Where is the higher standard of football and where are the better players?

The Premier League.

 

[bottletree]

Do the clubs pay the tax on the players wages? I would like to know if the likes of Drogba and Lampard are cashing in the full 120 grand a week they get?
As far as championship players are concerned. I would not pay them in buttons. Let football implode on itself. Get it to a amateur level and let them play for pleasure. Fucking overpaid set of w@nkers the lot of them.