Safe Standing and Atmosphere

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WorkingtonBlade said:
Yes, 10 rows seems very small. Based on the figures above that would be about 1,800 standing - less than 6% of the ground.
Click to expand...

One thing to bear in mind is that, unless regulations have changed recently, any implementation of safe standing in home areas needs to be matched by an equal amount in away areas of the ground. So if they were to do that much in the Kop, they'd need to do the same in the BLLT - which would be more than half the capacity of that area. Presumably they wouldn't want to do too much more there just to maintain a seating option for away fans who want to do so without amending where they are actually allocated
 
Just as a matter of interest, does safe standing increase stadium capacity or have no impact?
 
jt64 said:
One thing to bear in mind is that, unless regulations have changed recently, any implementation of safe standing in home areas needs to be matched by an equal amount in away areas of the ground. So if they were to do that much in the Kop, they'd need to do the same in the BLLT - which would be more than half the capacity of that area. Presumably they wouldn't want to do too much more there just to maintain a seating option for away fans who want to do so without amending where they are actually allocated
Click to expand...
The requirement is that safe standing must also be provided for away fans, but not that it has to be for the same number of away fans as home fans:

2. Licensed standing areas must be made available to both home and visiting supporters.

In achieving this, visiting supporters should also be offered seated accommodation within the provision.

The ground management must be able to demonstrate active engagement with supporters, which has helped inform decision making on the size and location of those licensed standing areas. The final decision will be based on a range of factors, most notably the nature and scale of spectator safety risk associated with persistent standing in conventional seated accommodation and the associated SGSA Persistent Standing Enforcement Approach.

Note that it is recognised that the capacity of licensed standing areas, whether for home or visiting supporters, may vary according to the event and the likely demand, and that allocations will require continual review.
 
Champagneblade said:
Just as a matter of interest, does safe standing increase stadium capacity or have no impact?
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My understanding (which could be outdated) is that in England safe standing is only allowed to be introduced on a one-for-one basis, so has no impact on overall capacity.
But I believe in other countries they are squeezing in more safe standing places than there were previously seats.
 
WorkingtonBlade said:
Yes, 10 rows seems very small. Based on the figures above that would be about 1,800 standing - less than 6% of the ground. When Bramall Lane used to have seating and standing areas available, my memory is that more chose to stand than chose to sit. The long period of only seating being available (and perhaps changes in society?) will have had an impact on that of course, but 6% still seems low. Half the Kop would be about 16% of the ground, which sounds nearer the mark.
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In the old days I stood on the kop but that was because it was the cheapest stand.
You get a far better view from the South or John St or BLUT and the facilities are far better in these stands, but its purely down to cost for me why I still go on the kop
 
I was under the impression that for safe standing to be brought into grounds there had to be new rail seats installed, and that it wasn't as simple as just chucking a rail over existing seating?

It appears that Hull have managed to do the latter.

1000029421.webp

Full article here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rpyzv8526o.amp
 
TJB. said:
I was under the impression that for safe standing to be brought into grounds there had to be new rail seats installed, and that it wasn't as simple as just chucking a rail over existing seating?
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That’s not been the case even from early on into licensing – you have the option of separate barriers alongside existing seating or separate integrated rail seats where the rail is essentially part of the seat. There are space requirements, and this is where in some grounds removing the seats to replace with rail seats has made sense to free up as much room. Covered here if of interest: https://www.standunited.uk/faqs/#kop-rows

At the start of licensed standing being brought in we were advised that options for the Kop were limited for that exact issue, and that separate rail seats would likely be needed – we’ve since been advised that this isn’t the case, and the cost is a lot lower than it would be for the integrated rail seats (which is why separate barriers next to existing seating has been increasingly popular for clubs to do).
 
I've noticed the Rotherham PSF has different images for the back few rows of seats, looks like a little bloke leaning on a rail, so I'm assuming the Millers now have rails seating.

Picture1.webp
 

BladeByChoice said:
I’m noticing safe standing/rail seating comments cropping up on various threads, maybe we’re all expecting the new owners to invest in the ground.

But one thing has always baffled me about how this equates to better atmosphere, I may be being thick and have missed something obvious but:

1. We all admit the atmosphere is not what it used to be.

2. We all know how to improve this, get the fans who want to stand and sing together.

So how will safe standing fix this, won’t we just be allocated a place to stand instead of a place to sit? Won’t we all be in the same place but stood up instead of sat down. Won’t non ST holders still have to buy match tickets that aren’t together / standing with mates.

Unless I’m totally wrong, the answer has to be standing blocks not individual places, blocks of about 250 places where you can buy an ST/MDT in a block, then if a group of ST holders have a mate who wants to attend a single match, they can buy a ticket in that block and all stand together.

I’ve read
https://www.standunited.uk/

And most of the articles here
https://thefsa.org.uk/?s=safe+standing

And can see the benefits to safe standing (I’m in KB4 and stand anyway) but I can’t see how it helps the atmosphere if the atmosphere generating fans are still fragmented.
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Obviously, the rail in front will give you much more purchase when belting out all the old favourites.
 
metalblade said:
Here we go the ST holders in the affected areas who don't want to stand will be up in arms and wanting refunds. Shouldn't affect me 15 rows back on the kop I'm guessing they will start with the back rows and work down.
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Had a guy already mentioning he’s “not going to be happy if someone’s stood up all game” promptly reminded him he’s more than able to move away from safe standing.
 
Great news, safe standing at the back of the KOP. Are they going to take the seats out? How many rows? Fans who prefer not to stand may have the option to move to the Bramall Lane upper or the other stands. Does the Kop capacity increase or decrease?.
 
I'd be interested to know what row it goes down to, think we might be included on row VV, I'm hoping we're the front row so I can still sit down when my legs get tired!
 
The kop holds 10,221, so it'll be just under a third of the way down
 

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