CONFIRMED Ryan Leonard

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Enigmatic said:
I don't need to point out the many examples of clubs which have gambled and/or panicked and ended up in a mess because of their transfer dealings. So yes, I think it's very possible. Think back to how we wasted our parachute payments and compensation from that despicable club from London. Look where that got us. Luckily, I think Wilder understands how to work to a budget and won't "drop us into a deep barrel of shit".
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Exactly my point, Wilder is a different manager to the total chumps that we ended up with after the relegation, and I think McCabe has finally realised that "spunking money" on trying to buy your way back doesn't actually work, unless your a bizillionaire and can afford to do it properly.
The club is heading in the right direction at last, the model has been set out by Wilder, it works, he proved it last year, and if we stick to it, which, I'm pretty sure, will happen, then I don't believe there is anything to worry about.
And from what I've been told, there are a couple of Chinese gentlemen with a keen interest in SUFC, red is after all, China's colour of luck and prosperity.
 

Maidenhead said:
As an ex banker I can categorically state that the last thing you do with a business that is struggling is to carry on doing the same things but throw more money at it.

Only one way that ever ends.
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I think I get where you are coming from.on this but I'm not sure I agree with that sweeping statement.

Firstly, you mention a struggling business...not sure Utd fall into that category just yet. Perhaps they aren't trading at a profit so I suppose you could surmise that they are as a standalone entity. That said the business has provided CW with a transfer budget so I guess we can't be on our arses just yet. However if you are just talking about a separate business model in a hypothetical sense that is losing money hand over fist then I would agree in that circumstance that your don't continue to chuck money at a business bleeding money. Not sure whether it's relevant to our debate though.

Secondly my previous post about putting extra funds in to protect your investment was made along the lines of we look to strengthen our existing playing squad to ensure that we put ourselves in the best possible position to avoid any relegation struggle. Or to put a business model head on you have a business that wants to expand, you have the source and the resource to do so but not the working capital. The business plan is sound. So you go to see the Bank manager with your business plan & future financial and cash flow forecasts and try to get a loan to protect or improve your existing investment in the business.

As a current corporate Banker I can categorically state that there are times when you put money into a sound well performing business to increase productivity and improve your financial position. Maybe yout right, or maybe I'm right. But remember your the ex Banker whereas im currently doing it for a very profitable living ;)
 
Rootshallbloke said:
Would be wise not to, Ronny is a bit 'ard when he's got the hump. £750k should soften his hurt feelings.
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I feel like I'm in an episode of Minder. Tell him we'll meet up in the Winchester and I'll get him a large VAT :)
 
Weasel said:
I think I get where you are coming from.on this but I'm not sure I agree with that sweeping statement.

Firstly, you mention a struggling business...not sure Utd fall into that category just yet. Perhaps they aren't trading at a profit so I suppose you could surmise that they are as a standalone entity. That said the business has provided CW with a transfer budget so I guess we can't be on our arses just yet. However if you are just talking about a separate business model in a hypothetical sense that is losing money hand over fist then I would agree in that circumstance that your don't continue to chuck money at a business bleeding money. Not sure whether it's relevant to our debate though.

Secondly my previous post about putting extra funds in to protect your investment was made along the lines of we look to strengthen our existing playing squad to ensure that we put ourselves in the best possible position to avoid any relegation struggle. Or to put a business model head on you have a business that wants to expand, you have the source and the resource to do so but not the working capital. The business plan is sound. So you go to see the Bank manager with your business plan & future financial and cash flow forecasts and try to get a loan to protect or improve your existing investment in the business.

As a current corporate Banker I can categorically state that there are times when you put money into a sound well performing business to increase productivity and improve your financial position. Maybe yout right, or maybe I'm right. But remember your the ex Banker whereas im currently doing it for a very profitable living ;)
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Whilst I'm enjoying a very comfortable retirement ;)

Reading your posts there is a lot more that unites us than divides us.

At the end of the day Wilder knows what he wants to spend, and it's his decision.

If he wants to chuck another £200k at each player that's fine by me, and if he doesn't, then that's fine by me too.

My real point is that our owners have a finite pot of money and it needs to be properly managed.

I hope you're enjoying your banking career more than I enjoyed the back end of mine.

Fortunately when my youngest left school I had enough behind me to chuck it all in and get a job as a postie.

Now, that I did enjoy and one thing it proved to me beyond all doubt was that money can't buy you happiness.
 
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Weasel said:
I think I get where you are coming from.on this but I'm not sure I agree with that sweeping statement.

Firstly, you mention a struggling business...not sure Utd fall into that category just yet. Perhaps they aren't trading at a profit so I suppose you could surmise that they are as a standalone entity. That said the business has provided CW with a transfer budget so I guess we can't be on our arses just yet. However if you are just talking about a separate business model in a hypothetical sense that is losing money hand over fist then I would agree in that circumstance that your don't continue to chuck money at a business bleeding money. Not sure whether it's relevant to our debate though."
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That's my whole point.

The business isn't providing the transfer pot, the owners are.

Without the support of the owners the business would be insolvent and couldn't continue to trade.

There has to come a point where the owners can't just keep chucking money in and keep hoping.

I'm very impressed with what has happened off the field in the last twelve months, long may it continue
 
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Weasel said:
I think I get where you are coming from.on this but I'm not sure I agree with that sweeping statement.

Firstly, you mention a struggling business...not sure Utd fall into that category just yet. Perhaps they aren't trading at a profit so I suppose you could surmise that they are as a standalone entity. That said the business has provided CW with a transfer budget so I guess we can't be on our arses just yet. However if you are just talking about a separate business model in a hypothetical sense that is losing money hand over fist then I would agree in that circumstance that your don't continue to chuck money at a business bleeding money. Not sure whether it's relevant to our debate though.

Secondly my previous post about putting extra funds in to protect your investment was made along the lines of we look to strengthen our existing playing squad to ensure that we put ourselves in the best possible position to avoid any relegation struggle. Or to put a business model head on you have a business that wants to expand, you have the source and the resource to do so but not the working capital. The business plan is sound. So you go to see the Bank manager with your business plan & future financial and cash flow forecasts and try to get a loan to protect or improve your existing investment in the business.

As a current corporate Banker I can categorically state that there are times when you put money into a sound well performing business to increase productivity and improve your financial position. Maybe yout right, or maybe I'm right. But remember your the ex Banker whereas im currently doing it for a very profitable living ;)
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On the other hand, post 2008 I'm not sure why anyone would take financial advice from a banker.

;)
 
Weasel said:
I think I get where you are coming from.on this but I'm not sure I agree with that sweeping statement.

Firstly, you mention a struggling business...not sure Utd fall into that category just yet. Perhaps they aren't trading at a profit so I suppose you could surmise that they are as a standalone entity. That said the business has provided CW with a transfer budget so I guess we can't be on our arses just yet. However if you are just talking about a separate business model in a hypothetical sense that is losing money hand over fist then I would agree in that circumstance that your don't continue to chuck money at a business bleeding money. Not sure whether it's relevant to our debate though.
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That business model looks exactly like SUFC to me but it's amazing how many people seem to think the owners should keep chucking money at it.

I thought that is what this whole side debate is about ;)

Football club owners are completely bonkers.
 
I should coco said:
The old adage:

"How do you make £10 million out of football?

Start with a £100 million"
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Which is true but try telling that to owners. They've probably heard nothing but negativity since the day they decided to set up on their own, being advised on how to run a business by people who've never run a business. That's probably why they don't listen and think it won't happen to them, until they've lost £90m, by which time, it's some other fucker's fault; managers, agents, players, the FA, the PL, the EFL, pushy parents, austerity, the EU, anybody but the bloke who signed the cheques so people would chant his name.
 
I should coco said:
The old adage:

"How do you make £10 million out of football?

Start with a £100 million"
Click to expand...

Anyone who gets into football club ownership these days is either loaded and doesn't mind taking a financial hit to a point, gambling on trying to get his club into the premier league, dodgy bstards who want to take out of the club, or just plain naive. Unless you win the premier league golden ticket you are really on a hiding to nothing provided you aren't in it just to run the club into the ground.
 
B14Nco said:
Last season Jackson Irvine was a £300,000 player, who league 1 clubs were chasing.

12 months in the championship and you're looking at a 2million pound player.

Good example of just because they cost £300,000 doesn't mean they can't cut it.
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that's true but i reckon we could use brayford as a big chunk of that £2m and effectively have brayford's wage bill off of our system and also spend roughly the same amount of money we would on leonard, on the rest of the cost of irvine
 
davidblade said:
Pinchy what's your house worth ? I no have an idea where you live but I can Tel you what it's worth, it's worth what people are prepared to pay for it it's called market economics.
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Absolutely right. The same applies to footballers. Leonard and Holmes are not worth their clubs' current asking price. If they were someone would have paid it. Tufty's got it right.
 

BushBlade said:
Any chance of 100% LTV development loan for a site I haven't found yet? (It worked for Simon Kelly so I may as well try).
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If it was my decision of course i would say yes to a chancer like your good self. However theyve learnt to move me away from the caboodles of money washing around and have instead got me doing all the corporate legal stuff. Good thing as well, I'd be as bent as a nine bob note. Still if it worked for Fred Goodwin...who now enjoys a very lucrative pension for almost bankrupting his company.....theres hope for me yet.
 
Weasel said:
Anyone who gets into football club ownership these days is either loaded and doesn't mind taking a financial hit to a point, gambling on trying to get his club into the premier league, dodgy bstards who want to take out of the club, or just plain naive. Unless you win the premier league golden ticket you are really on a hiding to nothing provided you aren't in it just to run the club into the ground.
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You seem to have overlooked the people involved for the money laundering opportunities.
 
Weasel said:
Agree with the vast majority of that but my point isn't solely linked to Holmes and Leonard. Right now it seems that CW is looking at these two and he may sign them or he might not. He might have had re-think in the last few weeks or other players who he fancies more might have now become available at a realistic price. The football transfer market is a fairly fluid thing - how often gave we heard managers talk about the dominoe effect when one transfer unlocks a number of others? CW might view H&L has vital players for his team next season or he might not. I dont know the guy personally so I don't know what he's thinking for sure. What I do know though is my own mind. And in my mind IF he thinks these are still his preferred choices and IF it needs the club to find a few extra bob to get them...then we should find that little bit extra if necessary. I'm sure there are a whole host of alternative players available to him - up to him who he fancies as his first choices.

Of course if the budget is already there to allow CW to bring in all of his intended number 1 targets (so that it is just down to CWs judgement only) then my point then becomes irrelevant because the club has found the necessary funding...my point was always an hypothetical one and not solely linked to any particular player(s).

I've already stated that I trust CW to get the best deal available to him...I dont however always trust the club to back our managers sufficiently to enable them to get the best deal available.
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Tufty does. He's said so repeatedly.
 
Weasel said:
If it was my decision of course i would say yes to a chancer like your good self. However theyve learnt to move me away from the caboodles of money washing around and have instead got me doing all the corporate legal stuff. Good thing as well, I'd be as bent as a nine bob note. Still if it worked for Fred Goodwin...who now enjoys a very lucrative pension for almost bankrupting his company.....theres hope for me yet.
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Ok, I'll leave it until Brexit and our government caves in and totally deregulates you. Then we can do a Chinese Quarter in Chesterfield and some luxury flats in Darnall.
 
Maidenhead said:
Whilst I'm enjoying a very comfortable retirement ;)

Reading your posts there is a lot more that unites us than divides us.

At the end of the day Wilder knows what he wants to spend, and it's his decision.

If he wants to chuck another £200k at each player that's fine by me, and if he doesn't, then that's fine by me too.

My real point is that our owners have a finite pot of money and it needs to be properly managed.

I hope you're enjoying your banking career more than I enjoyed the back end of mine.

Fortunately when my youngest left school I had enough behind me to chuck it all in and get a job as a postie.

Now, that I did enjoy and one thing it proved to me beyond all doubt was that money can't buy you happiness.
Click to expand...

May I just thank you both for the recession...
 
Maidenhead said:
That's my whole point.

The business isn't providing the transfer pot, the owners are.

Without the support of the owners the business would be insolvent and couldn't continue to trade.

There has to come a point where the owners can't just keep chucking money in and keep hoping.

I'm very impressed with what has happened off the field in the last twelve months, long may it continue
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In a nutshell. Plenty won't listen though.
 
Weasel said:
I think I get where you are coming from.on this but I'm not sure I agree with that sweeping statement.

Firstly, you mention a struggling business...not sure Utd fall into that category just yet. Perhaps they aren't trading at a profit so I suppose you could surmise that they are as a standalone entity. That said the business has provided CW with a transfer budget so I guess we can't be on our arses just yet. However if you are just talking about a separate business model in a hypothetical sense that is losing money hand over fist then I would agree in that circumstance that your don't continue to chuck money at a business bleeding money. Not sure whether it's relevant to our debate though.

Secondly my previous post about putting extra funds in to protect your investment was made along the lines of we look to strengthen our existing playing squad to ensure that we put ourselves in the best possible position to avoid any relegation struggle. Or to put a business model head on you have a business that wants to expand, you have the source and the resource to do so but not the working capital. The business plan is sound. So you go to see the Bank manager with your business plan & future financial and cash flow forecasts and try to get a loan to protect or improve your existing investment in the business.

As a current corporate Banker I can categorically state that there are times when you put money into a sound well performing business to increase productivity and improve your financial position. Maybe yout right, or maybe I'm right. But remember your the ex Banker whereas im currently doing it for a very profitable living ;)
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United have traded at a loss for many years. The business isn't providing CW with a budget ( as Maidenhead ) has said. It's not even been paying the bills in the past few years. The owners are putting money in to keep going with the ultimate aim of getting to the PL and staying there. If that doesn't happen, even with a takeover, they are unlikely, certainly in Kevin McCabes case, to get the money back.
 
'No return to Tory boom bust ' quickly followed by the biggest bust ever ! People in The City never had it so good as in the Blair and Brown decade which shows how big a socialist they both were !
 
Weasel said:
Anyone who gets into football club ownership these days is either loaded and doesn't mind taking a financial hit to a point, gambling on trying to get his club into the premier league, dodgy bstards who want to take out of the club, or just plain naive. Unless you win the premier league golden ticket you are really on a hiding to nothing provided you aren't in it just to run the club into the ground.
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....but there are lots of people who try to take over or buy football clubs and yet it's known that the vast majority of clubs run at a loss. Can that loss become a tax write off against other interests thus making a football club a 'lucrative' investment.
 
LenTednTony said:
....but there are lots of people who try to take over or buy football clubs and yet it's known that the vast majority of clubs run at a loss. Can that loss become a tax write off against other interests thus making a football club a 'lucrative' investment.
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Unless you can explain this loophole a bit further, I'd suggest it's impossible to "write losses off against tax", and make them lucrative.

A loss is a loss. Offsetting against tax only softens a blow, it doesn't reverse it.
 
Rootshallbloke said:
Back on topic, these are the latest quotes from Lenny in Malaga. I still don't think any deal is dead, but it is starting to look as though January or end of season is more likely if you are still interested then.

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/sport/15388443.Leonard_expecting_to_stay_at_Blues/
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“I’m just concentrating on pre-season but if I do stay then I’ll give everything for the lads, the gaffer and the fans.”

The but in that sentence seems to me like he has his heart set on the blades..
 

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