CONFIRMED Ryan Leonard

[Grizzly blade]

What is this treason that you speaketh...

Fully agree.

Do you both really think we will be desperate for these two in a August?
We have Fleck, Coutts, Caruthers, Duffy and now possibly Brooks knocking on the door.
We have moved on O Shea and Scougall and so I see these two as replacements for them.
Can you really see Samir Coutts or Duffy being completely replaced by either Holmes or Leonard?
I think we will wait it out til the end of the month. No movement Wilder will look elsewhere IMHO

 

[B14Nco]

I like them both but won't be hugely disappointed if we don't get them... I look back on the whole McFadzean thing last year... he was our number 1 target... didn't come... and we 'ended up' with the magic man.

If they're here great if not we'll bring someone else in. Might work out better for us.

 

[ucandomagic]

We pissed on League 1 last season.

We have four excellent signings already.

We will be comfortable in the Champ this season.

Tufty has nailed our colours to the wall - YOU WILL NOT FUCK US OVER.

When we NEED to buy players to achieve our ambitions the rest will know how we work.

The Magic is Back

 

[BigBed]

We're bothered because it involves the future financial health of our club, and its ability to operate efficiently. Overpaying on transfers and wages impacts competiveness and can eventually result in the demise of a club in extreme cases.

And you seriously think that "our" owners won't understand That, and drop utd into a deep barrel of shit!!???
Come on man, your worrying about nothing.

 

[Enigmatic]

And we're also bothered that if we don't get a transfer target or two for the sake of finding a few bob extra now...and potentially end up getting poorer results and getting relegated on the back of it then we could really be in the shit again financially. Especially if the Prince and or McCabe then bugger off thinking 'Im not prepared to fund all those annual financial losses again with the club being back in division 1....' Sometimes you have to put a bit more money in to protect your existing investment.

Point taken. But you seem to working on the assumption that these are the only players available to strengthen our team; there could be very good alternatives that represent better value than overpaying for our top targets. Surely it's then up to our manager to decide if and when to delve a little deeper. So the question is, do you trust Wilder?

 

[metalblade]

I thought this thread might be as long as the Morsey thread by now ..............

 

[Weasel]

Point taken. But you seem to working on the assumption that these are the only players available to strengthen our team; there could be very good alternatives that represent better value than overpaying for our top targets. Surely it's then up to our manager to decide if and when to delve a little deeper. So the question is, do you trust Wilder?

Agree with the vast majority of that but my point isn't solely linked to Holmes and Leonard. Right now it seems that CW is looking at these two and he may sign them or he might not. He might have had re-think in the last few weeks or other players who he fancies more might have now become available at a realistic price. The football transfer market is a fairly fluid thing - how often gave we heard managers talk about the dominoe effect when one transfer unlocks a number of others? CW might view H&L has vital players for his team next season or he might not. I dont know the guy personally so I don't know what he's thinking for sure. What I do know though is my own mind. And in my mind IF he thinks these are still his preferred choices and IF it needs the club to find a few extra bob to get them...then we should find that little bit extra if necessary. I'm sure there are a whole host of alternative players available to him - up to him who he fancies as his first choices.

Of course if the budget is already there to allow CW to bring in all of his intended number 1 targets (so that it is just down to CWs judgement only) then my point then becomes irrelevant because the club has found the necessary funding...my point was always an hypothetical one and not solely linked to any particular player(s).

I've already stated that I trust CW to get the best deal available to him...I dont however always trust the club to back our managers sufficiently to enable them to get the best deal available.

 

[Enigmatic]

Agree with the vast majority of that but my point isn't solely linked to Holmes and Leonard. Right now it seems that CW is looking at these two and he may sign them or he might not. He might have had re-think in the last few weeks or other players who he fancies more might have now become available at a realistic price. The football transfer market is a fairly fluid thing - how often gave we heard managers talk about the dominoe effect when one transfer unlocks a number of others? CW might view H&L has vital players for his team next season or he might not. I dont know the guy personally so I don't know what he's thinking for sure. What I do know though is my own mind. And in my mind IF he thinks these are still his preferred choices and IF it needs the club to find a few extra bob to get them...then we should find that little bit extra if necessary. I'm sure there are a whole host of alternative players available to him - up to him who he fancies as his first choices.

Of course if the budget is already there to allow CW to bring in all of his intended number 1 targets (so that it is just down to CWs judgement only) then my point then becomes irrelevant because the club has found the necessary funding...my point was always an hypothetical one and not solely linked to any particular player(s).

I've already stated that I trust CW to get the best deal available to him...I dont however always trust the club to back our managers sufficiently to enable them to get the best deal available.

I see where you're coming from. I suppose it's completely understandable to be sceptical of his backing given our recent history. Although I do think we are now better run than we have been for a long time, it would be naive to think we are now incapable of further incompetence. That said, I personally think he will be backed sufficiently... but maybe not as much as many on here would like and seemingly expected.

 

[Enigmatic]

And you seriously think that "our" owners won't understand That, and drop utd into a deep barrel of shit!!???
Come on man, your worrying about nothing.

I don't need to point out the many examples of clubs which have gambled and/or panicked and ended up in a mess because of their transfer dealings. So yes, I think it's very possible. Think back to how we wasted our parachute payments and compensation from that despicable club from London. Look where that got us. Luckily, I think Wilder understands how to work to a budget and won't "drop us into a deep barrel of shit".

 

[Weasel]

Do YOU think those two significantly improve the team we have presently....not the squad, but the team. Does Leonard offer more than Coutts and Fleck? Or Duffy in a five? For me, no and I believe he is seen as a competitor for one of those places the same as O shea was.

And that's what I think Wilder sees here...two
Players who are good enough to get in the team and to compete with the two Who held the spots last season. It drives players to perform to their best and push for better all the time. So for those teo he has their price set as things stand. And that's us being the only actual bidders and also the team the pair want to go to presently.
So as neither will be automatic first choice I don't see Wilder going overboard for them. Neither are "game changer" players, that something special to push the boat out for.

So for me...I don't feel the club are holding out for Wilder here or stopping him bidding more if he wants. I simply think Wilder has decided if they come for what we have offered now...great. If not, we will look at others in the meantime, see what else crops up by August and if these two are still Available and we have the budget left after doing his other business then we may raise our offer.

Who's to say by then that certainly Southend will lose their nerve and do what we have done over the years....cave in and make the call to accept reluctantly.

Its not really worth a bucket of frog's what I think about these two players as other than being a supporter I have no direct involvement with SUFC and certainly no influence. What is important is what CW, AK, the joints owners i.e. the money men, Bettis (or the new Chief Operating Officer who came in last week) and Carl Shieber all think.

But since you ask....no I don't think we will be desperate for either player. We already have good players here at the club and I subscribe to the thinking that we would be fine even if we didnt really add any more players to the squad for now. That said, I certainly think there is room for improvement and which manager doesn't want to continually make his team better?

Do I think Holmes and Leonard will make Utd's first team better..??..er i suppose that yes probably they will mainly cos I trust CW's footballing judgement and if he wants them then I hope he gets them. He must want them for a valid reason after all. But I haven't watched the players in question enough to form a real solid opinion of either of them to say whether I think they will be regular starters at the Lane if they come. In essence, if CW turned round today and said he no longer wanted them...then I wouldn't bat an eyelid and I would be solely interested in who he now wanted.

With the limited amount of knowledge that I have on these two players and from what I've read and heard and the bit I've seen of them, then I would think that Holmes would be in the team from day 1 as I think he is the replacement for Duffy and will fight it out with Carruthers, Leonard would be an important player player as he is athletic and puts his foot in and protects the back line more than the players we currently have. As we are going up a division I think there will be times when his style will be vital for us to win a game. So yes, I understand why CW might be going for these lads, but if he changes his mind then Im fine with that too....provided that the reason he switches targets is football related and not solely down to any lack of 'sensible' financial backing from the board room (within reason of course I don't think we could have a go at the board if CW wanted Messi).

 

[SteveBlade]

I've clicked on this thread hundreds of times, I think my optimism peaked somewhere around page 22.

Now I come back everyday in the hope of something good, and I always leave unsatisfied.

I now know what my other half has been going through.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Our management are living in a time warp.

Is Carvalhal your manager?

 

[Weasel]

So back to the point. Is he signing today or not...do we even still want him...is it time to switch our attention back to Dan Burn or Morsy. The anticipation is killing me.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Its not really worth a bucket of frog's what I think about these two players as other than being a supporter I have no direct involvement with SUFC and certainly no influence. What is important is what CW, AK, the joints owners i.e. the money men, Bettis (or the new Chief Operating Officer who came in last week) and Carl Shieber all think.

But since you ask....no I don't think we will be desperate for either player. We already have good players here at the club and I subscribe to the thinking that we would be fine even if we didnt really add any more players to the squad for now. That said, I certainly think there is room for improvement and which manager doesn't want to continually make his team better?

Do I think Holmes and Leonard will make Utd's first team better..??..er i suppose that yes probably they will mainly cos I trust CW's footballing judgement and if he wants them then I hope he gets them. He must want them for a valid reason after all. But I haven't watched the players in question enough to form a real solid opinion of either of them to say whether I think they will be regular starters at the Lane if they come. In essence, if CW turned round today and said he no longer wanted them...then I wouldn't bat an eyelid and I would be solely interested in who he now wanted.

With the limited amount of knowledge that I have on these two players and from what I've read and heard and the bit I've seen of them, then I would think that Holmes would be in the team from day 1 as I think he is the replacement for Duffy and will fight it out with Carruthers, Leonard would be an important player player as he is athletic and puts his foot in and protects the back line more than the players we currently have. As we are going up a division I think there will be times when his style will be vital for us to win a game. So yes, I understand why CW might be going for these lads, but if he changes his mind then Im fine with that too....provided that the reason he switches targets is football related and not solely down to any lack of 'sensible' financial backing from the board room (within reason of course I don't think we could have a go at the board if CW wanted Messi).

Don't feel there is a problem with the backing Wilder has got.He has a value on a player and won't be fleeced by clubs.He may go slightly above what he thinks is value but won't go over the top,we finally have a manager that treats the clubs money as his own

 

[I should coco]

You are very good at paying over the odds with other people's money. How about your own? Would you like to buy my car?

How many times have you sold that old banger now?

And yes, if oir chairman cant fund an extra £400k to secure a couple of players who are CWs first choice targets, then yes perhaps he should move aside from being Utd's chairman.

He'd move aside tomorrow if the RIGHT person came in. They would have to be substantially richer than KM and also genuinely committed long term to football and United. Thankfully I'm pretty sure he wouldn't sell to the Dolphin Killer or any of the other clowns that have clubs as playthings.

 

[Weasel]

The one thing that you can't accuse McCabe of is not caring about the club. He genuinely does care and that's to his credit.

He has made mistakes before which are well documented and he has had to pay for those mistakes by putting in more of his cash. It's clear that Utd have cost him a personal fortune over the years. He also needs to learn to zip his gob sometimes as people will take his words literally at times.

What i don't want him to do now though is to adopt a 'we will get by with what we have' attitude as this is the time to push on with the new found optimism and good will that is now round the club. Give CW the tools and he will deliver.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Interesting point about whether we actually need Holmes or Leonard. I think these are two very different types of player. Holmes is more of an out and out attacking winger type player. Leonard, from what I understand, is more of a ball-winner in midfield. If that's correct then I think we need a Leonard type player more than we need a Holmes type player. I think the likes of Duffy, Coutts, Fleck, Carruthers are great - but where's the aggressive ball winner amongst that lot? We don't really have one - and we do need one. So let's hope Leonard is it and that we can bring him in?

 

[LenTednTony]

Its not really worth a bucket of frog's what I think about these two players as other than being a supporter I have no direct involvement with SUFC and certainly no influence. What is important is what CW, AK, the joints owners i.e. the money men, Bettis (or the new Chief Operating Officer who came in last week) and Carl Shieber all think.

But since you ask....no I don't think we will be desperate for either player. We already have good players here at the club and I subscribe to the thinking that we would be fine even if we didnt really add any more players to the squad for now. That said, I certainly think there is room for improvement and which manager doesn't want to continually make his team better?

Do I think Holmes and Leonard will make Utd's first team better..??..er i suppose that yes probably they will mainly cos I trust CW's footballing judgement and if he wants them then I hope he gets them. He must want them for a valid reason after all. But I haven't watched the players in question enough to form a real solid opinion of either of them to say whether I think they will be regular starters at the Lane if they come. In essence, if CW turned round today and said he no longer wanted them...then I wouldn't bat an eyelid and I would be solely interested in who he now wanted.

With the limited amount of knowledge that I have on these two players and from what I've read and heard and the bit I've seen of them, then I would think that Holmes would be in the team from day 1 as I think he is the replacement for Duffy and will fight it out with Carruthers, Leonard would be an important player player as he is athletic and puts his foot in and protects the back line more than the players we currently have. As we are going up a division I think there will be times when his style will be vital for us to win a game. So yes, I understand why CW might be going for these lads, but if he changes his mind then Im fine with that too....provided that the reason he switches targets is football related and not solely down to any lack of 'sensible' financial backing from the board room (within reason of course I don't think we could have a go at the board if CW wanted Messi).

According to my understanding of the situation is that CW has a budget that he is working within and that CW has put a value on both Leonard and Holmes that he believes is a fair valuation. Neither of these figures has any correlation to the other unless the budget is less than the valuation. I don't think it is or they would not be looking at 4 or 5 players.

 

[Weasel]

According to my understanding of the situation is that CW has a budget that he is working within and that CW has put a value on both Leonard and Holmes that he believes is a fair valuation. Neither of these figures has any correlation to the other unless the budget is less than the valuation. I don't think it is or they would not be looking at 4 or 5 players.

As it happens, I agree.

 

[Weasel]

I think we need a Leonard type player more than we need a Holmes type player. I think the likes of Duffy, Coutts, Fleck, Carruthers are great - but where's the aggressive ball winner amongst that lot?

I think it's vital that we get a Leonard style player in for next season of nothing else. Could see Utd's midfield getting overrun next season at times if we don't have this type of player as an option.

 

[Lmaobob]

I think it's vital that we get a Leonard style player in for next season of nothing else. Could see Utd's midfield getting overrun next season at times if we don't have this type of player as an option.

Jackson Irvine is similar to Leonard i believe??

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I think it's vital that we get a Leonard style player in for next season of nothing else. Could see Utd's midfield getting overrun next season at times if we don't have this type of player as an option.

Don't know if I agree with that or not. Obviously will be games where we need to dig in and graft.

But in reality if we retain possession there's nothing the opposition can do to us. Fleck and coutts will still be comfortable on the balk in the league above - Swansea and Bournemouth got promoted without a destroyer.

That said he would deffo have a role To play.

 

[Maidenhead]

And we're also bothered that if we don't get a transfer target or two for the sake of finding a few bob extra now...and potentially end up getting poorer results and getting relegated on the back of it then we could really be in the shit again financially. Especially if the Prince and or McCabe then bugger off thinking 'Im not prepared to fund all those annual financial losses again with the club being back in division 1....' Sometimes you have to put a bit more money in to protect your existing investment.

As an ex banker I can categorically state that the last thing you do with a business that is struggling is to carry on doing the same things but throw more money at it.

Only one way that ever ends.

 

[LenTednTony]

As an ex banker I can categorically state that the last thing you do with a business that is struggling is to carry on doing the same things but throw more money at it.

Only one way that ever ends.

I agree. There is a saying "if you always do what you've always done , you will always get what you've always got". Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[South Bucks]

I think it's vital that we get a Leonard style player in for next season of nothing else. Could see Utd's midfield getting overrun next season at times if we don't have this type of player as an option.

Yep, it comes down to the who will track back when we lose the ball discussion, nah, I couldn't be bothered I'll let someone else do it. I went to a decent number of games last season and of the goals we conceded a high proportion were due to our midfield not tracking back and leaving our defence exposed and a keeper who was sometimes suspect with long range shots straight at him, and this against generally poor opposition with little possession. Take a look at the goals away at Walsall, Oxford, Swindon, Southend as a starter.

 

[B14Nco]

Jackson Irvine is similar to Leonard i believe??

Last season Jackson Irvine was a £300,000 player, who league 1 clubs were chasing.

12 months in the championship and you're looking at a 2million pound player.

Good example of just because they cost £300,000 doesn't mean they can't cut it.

 

[B14Nco]

Yep, it comes down to the who will track back when we lose the ball discussion, nah, I couldn't be bothered I'll let someone else do it. I went to a decent number of games last season and of the goals we conceded a high proportion were due to our midfield not tracking back and leaving our defence exposed and a keeper who was sometimes suspect with long range shots straight at him, and this against generally poor opposition with little possession. Take a look at the goals away at Walsall, Oxford, Swindon, Southend as a starter.

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure you could see something similar if you search for goals v Chelsea.

I don't think it's a result of not tracking back I think it's a result of the way and formation we play...

If it happened 'a lot' then yeah there is a problem (e.g 15/16)... a few times a season is just going to happen no matter how well you drill your players.

And we've obviously drilled it into our lot a lot more this year. Coutts prime example (although tracked back slowly ).

We play high tempo and try to overload... when it breaks down there will be space in behind. It's just part and parcel of how we play which although I agree I'd like to minimise - e.g with the addition of a Leonard Type... I wouldn't want us to change if it had a negative effect on us going forward.

 

[Pinchy]

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure you could see something similar if you search for goals v Chelsea.

I don't think it's a result of not tracking back I think it's a result of the way and formation we play...

If it happened 'a lot' then yeah there is a problem (e.g 15/16)... a few times a season is just going to happen no matter how well you drill your players.

And we've obviously drilled it into our lot a lot more this year. Coutts prime example (although tracked back slowly ).

We play high tempo and try to overload... when it breaks down there will be space in behind. It's just part and parcel of how we play which although I agree I'd like to minimise - e.g with the addition of a Leonard Type... I wouldn't want us to change if it had a negative effect on us going forward.

I became sick and tired of comprehensively outplaying the opposition last season. We've done it for so many years now it has become boring. It's not as though it achieves results. Time for a radical change in approach.

My Bladey heart yearns for a bit of tracking back, a sprinkling of shadow-chasing and a generous amount of ragamuffinry.

Upanatem!

 

[davidblade]

He says he won't pay more than players are worth. He doesn't mention his budget. That is a given. It dictates the level of spending, not his valuatuon of individual players within the budget.

You are very good at paying over the odds with other people's money. How about your own? Would you like to buy my car?

Pinchy what's your house worth ? I no have an idea where you live but I can Tel you what it's worth, it's worth what people are prepared to pay for it it's called market economics.

 

[Rodley]

If it was me I'd look to get the deal done ASAP or look elsewhere, as in close it out this week. I expect we must be very close on both or we wouldn't be persisting.