Rules that could benefit the current pyramid system

[Snowflake]

This is an absolutely awful idea. Given the disparity in resources I'd be very surprised if the Championship team won more than 2/10 years.

Reducing the number of teams promoted is never going to make the pyramid better.

In a two legged contest I think the Championship side has a much better chance than 20%. It would mean that an established PL team would go down after the first year .

 

[Selly]

In a two legged contest I think the Championship side has a much better chance than 20%. It would mean that an established PL team would go down after the first year .

Or a team that went up last year

 

[Greystones Blade]

Promote top 8 championship clubs to replace bottom 8 PL clubs. No play offs. Seems like a good way of levelling up over time … and freshens up the leagues without disturbing the top PL clubs too much.

 

[robbiez666]

Top two should always go up
Bottom two in Premier League to go down

Then 18th and 17th in the Prem go into play offs with 3rd and 4th in the Championship

I've always thought 6th in the Championship is not deserving, they're not much more than a mid table team who's had a better run in than the rest

This is a decent alternative but I suspect will end up with the EPL team staying up.

 

[BerksBlade]

1. Do away with the Football League Trophy
2. Make the League Cup EFL teams only (no PL)
3. Abolish loans (apart from maybe allowing players with a season-ending injury to be replaced)
4. Bring back FA Cup replays
5. Cap agents' fees on transfers

 

[Badger Blade]

In a two legged contest I think the Championship side has a much better chance than 20%. It would mean that an established PL team would go down after the first year .

You had an idea that you beat me to!

If the Championship team doesn't go up, then so be it. It's a dress rehearsal almost to see how they'd cope with promotion if they got there against a team that's just done a full season at that level. If they get dicked 6-0 over two legs by Leicester or Ipswich then its served its purpose in so far as a team who are going to be embarrassed have been spared the indignity.

Also gives teams lower down the Premier League something to play for a bit longer and also allows potentially a promoted team the chance at staying up for another season and the ability to build.

At least Southampton's dire form has meant that people have forgotten about us for a bit!

 

[Selly]

You had an idea that you beat me to!

If the Championship team doesn't go up, then so be it. It's a dress rehearsal almost to see how they'd cope with promotion if they got there against a team that's just done a full season at that level. If they get dicked 6-0 over two legs by Leicester or Ipswich then its served its purpose in so far as a team who are going to be embarrassed have been spared the indignity.

Also gives teams lower down the Premier League something to play for a bit longer and also allows potentially a promoted team the chance at staying up for another season and the ability to build.

At least Southampton's dire form has meant that people have forgotten about us for a bit!

But all you are doing is turning a situation where 17 clubs in the division are better prepared for the PL than the 3 coming up into the same issue but its 18 clubs are better prepared than the 2 that are coming up - sure the identity of the club in 18th might change each year - but all you are doing is pitting a club with multiple years of PL money behind it against a team who, AT BEST, is in year 1 of their parachute payments.

For instance in 2021-22 - out parachute payment year 1 - when we finished 5th - Huddersfield finished 3rd ( in their third season of parachute payments) - would they have beaten a Burnley side who, at the time, were six seasons into a PL stay? Probably not.

So then the year after, Fulham and Bournemouth are competing against 18 teams with multiple PL years (themselves having been in the PL in the recent past).

It doesn`t make the pyramid better - as much fun as a spectacle it would be

 

[Nick Jansky]

The only way to preserve the pyramid is to wave the biggest clubs off into a European, and eventually global, super league and what remains will have far less money but what TV money there still is could be more evenly distributed resulting in a much more competitive set up with some degree of integrity.

 

[St Annington]

Just demolish the pyramid altogether and accept an Americanised style 90 team 4 geographically regional conference league. No promotion, no relegation, money split equally amongst all 90 teams. Draft system for the young uns. The guaranteed income would keep all clubs afloat while removing any psr means the clubs with richer owners can spend whatever they want. Scrap all other cup competitions and just have end of season conference/league play offs. Simple!!! This post may be slightly tongue in cheek, but our American owners would probably vote for it.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Just demolish the pyramid altogether and accept an Americanised style 90 team 4 geographically regional conference league. No promotion, no relegation, money split equally amongst all 90 teams. Draft system for the young uns. The guaranteed income would keep all clubs afloat while removing any psr means the clubs with richer owners can spend whatever they want. Scrap all other cup competitions and just have end of season conference/league play offs. Simple!!! This post may be slightly tongue in cheek, but our American owners would probably vote for it.

If it’s 90 teams is there some way that Pigs & Dirties could be the two to miss out?

 

[Proper Blade]

The only possible way is to force the Premier League to let the Football League have a bigger slice of the pie.

There is an eye-watering, almost incomprehensible amount of money at the top of the game - but it's just at the top of the game. We have created an absolute chasm between the top two divisions and it needs systemic change, not a few little alterations here and there.

The three promoted teams are going to go down this season - again. There's a very good chance that they will collectively win fewer points than last season's trio, which was already a record low. And would you bet against the same thing happening next year?

The challenge facing promoted teams isn't just a financial one. That has existed for years. It is also one of competitive balance. The odds are now absolutely stacked in favour of the teams with more quality and depth. 10 minutes+ added time is giving the richer clubs all the time they need to score a winner. The use of 5 subs means they can call on all of their far superior quality off the bench. And VAR is a Godsend for the top clubs - they're getting more penalties and scoring more goals than ever before. Any little advantage the promoted teams might've had in the past has been slowly eroded away to keep the top clubs happy.

We're left with a closed shop and an awful spectacle where the same three teams will get relegated every season, but almost bankrupt themselves trying not to. The Premier League isn't a competitive, entertaining division any more. It's a farce.

 

[RossingtonBlade]

Nah defeats the whole concept of it being a competition. We just need to stop waving the white flag and have someone in charge who has a respectable record in the cup. Wilder has never been interested in the cup.

 

[RossingtonBlade]

Limit loans to a maximum of three in and three out. Looking at you, Chelsea in particular.

No B teams allowed in lower competitions.

FA Cup back to replays until there’s a winner.

Salary cap, and spending cap.

Teams operating at a loss get a transfer ban until their finances are back in the black.

Shoot Andy Townsend.

Transfer window applies to managers as well as players. No sacking them any time you feel like it.

Limit squad sizes to 24 plus under 21s.

Shoot Andy Townsend again, just to be on the safe side.

He is one of the better commentators. Hutchinson n the like on Sky are shite

 

[MTBlade]

This chat has made me think and unfortunately, the only way i see things going now, are the Premier League gets its wish to drop to 18 teams.

Last and potentially this season have seen the 3 teams that went up, come straight back down, which is adding fuel to the Premier Leagues case.

I suspect they will eventually have one season where 3 drop and only 1 side goes up.

They will then stick, with a 1 up 1 down format like rugby League.

The team that goes up will also have to meet various requirements, thus removing the chances of the Lutons and even Bournemouths going up, as there grounds wont meet certain standards eg not big enough for the mighty Premier League.

It breaks my heart to write this, but the Premier league have the comtrol now, as thats where the money is.

Money has ruined the game and the horse has bolted.

I really cant see any suggestion the Premier League would go for.

Potentially a wage cap, but i guess in a way, this could be suggested is already in place with PSR.

Wow, that was a heart breaking post to write, because it shows i think football is changing and not for the good of the supporters

 

[Sheffsteel]

Wow, that was a heart breaking post to write, because it shows i think football is changing and not for the good of the supporters

I see these types of comments but the evidence suggests exactly the opposite.
Demand and love for the game has never been this high, the PL is proving to be an incredible success both at home and abroad.

I suppose “change” frightens some people and they wear rosey coloured spectacles regards nostalgia.

I remember the nostalgic Man Utd fans declaring football is dead and their club isn’t the same. They went and formed FC United of Manchester, since the nostalgic fans left…Man Utd have increased their season ticket waiting list to 30,000 and are now looking at building a new 90,000 stadium, which they will easily fill.

I can totally understand the thought process “If it ain’t broken then why try to fix it?”
However some of the money men believe football can grow even bigger and there’s still more money to be made.

For decades football was always the working man’s sport but it’s slowly trying to edge towards being the sport of the middle and upper classes with more luxury corporate style seats. The way it’s going the lower paid working class will be forced to watch it on TV but at present the owners are fine with that happening.

 

[Nick Jansky]

However some of the money men believe football can grow even bigger and there’s still more money to be made.

I’m not entirely sure where the money is being made? Most of it seems to go to players and agents.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

I'll just keep posting this in any "fix the gulf" threads:

Stop paying 25% of the tv money in accordance with Premier League finishing position. Those top teams already benefit from increased TV revenue since they have more games televised, and the top 7 normally get European tv money too,plus by and large its the teams that have established themselves as global brands who finish in the top places so they've got all the merch sales too. There's no need to make them even richer compared to prem league minnows by paying out drastically different amounts depending on league finishing position.

Instead distribute that money evenly 23 ways. The 20 teams that played the season plus the 3 teams that have just got promoted as a "golden handshake". That works out at around £29 million per team on top of the £95 million (?) each team currently gets for being in the prem. (Happy to have some cash bonus for 1st 2nd and 3rd but that's it.)

 

[McGrath]

Ban countries from owning football clubs. So no more Man City trying to buy the championship every year

 

[HVR]

Split the Premier League into 2 Divisions of 10, as it finishes that season (1-10 Div 1 / 11-20 Div 2).
They all play each other as before (so Div 1 still play those in Div 2), but the team top of Division 2 stays there, even if they have more points than bottom of Division 1.

At the end of the Season a team wins the Premier League Division 2 title and the top 2 teams get a much bigger bonus than the 2 teams finishing bottom and 2nd bottom in Division 1.

Then the top 2 teams in Division 2 swap with the bottom 2 teams in Division 1.

It could make it much more interesting as those who would never win the League and have something to play for in Division 2.

 

[Jon B]

Bottom 3 of prem and top 3 of the championship have a play off

Nightmare territory.

We've already experienced the horror of having a deeply useless team humiliated all season in their Division, then playing a team that made it into a play-off spot in the Division below.

May 1988.

Play-off semi final.

Us from what is now the Championship playing home and away against Bristol City who finished in 5th place in the Division below.

We won neither game.

The draw at the Lane saw City score through an ex Owl and go through to the play off final.

And lose.

The footballing equivalent of having your face rubbed in your own excrement.

 

[MadDad38]

I'll just keep posting this in any "fix the gulf" threads:

Stop paying 25% of the tv money in accordance with Premier League finishing position. Those top teams already benefit from increased TV revenue since they have more games televised, and the top 7 normally get European tv money too,plus by and large its the teams that have established themselves as global brands who finish in the top places so they've got all the merch sales too. There's no need to make them even richer compared to prem league minnows by paying out drastically different amounts depending on league finishing position.

Instead distribute that money evenly 23 ways. The 20 teams that played the season plus the 3 teams that have just got promoted as a "golden handshake". That works out at around £29 million per team on top of the £95 million (?) each team currently gets for being in the prem. (Happy to have some cash bonus for 1st 2nd and 3rd but that's it.)

What this thread shows is that all the apparently straightforward solutions have flaws and probably lead to unintended consequences. Were this one imposed, I could see that the bigger clubs would resent giving up their rewards and start agitating for a superleague or individually negotiated TV deals as per Spain etc.

My suggestion also bring its problems and also accepts a basic inequality but if it were down to me I’d scrapnormat least heavily roll back FFP. Everyone has to accept that the price of doing business in the EPL is £bns. The only way to give yourselves a chance is to do a Forest. That shouldn’t have to be done on a calculation of how many points you might be deducted. Similarly if Newcastle want to go on a spending spree to challenge City then let them do it.

As it is the drawbridge has been pulled up preserving dominance not just of a select few at the top but also when comparing e.g Crystal Palace with their squad of £20m players in every position vs promoted teams who might buy say 3 in the summer after promotion.

 

[Selly]

I'll just keep posting this in any "fix the gulf" threads:

Stop paying 25% of the tv money in accordance with Premier League finishing position. Those top teams already benefit from increased TV revenue since they have more games televised, and the top 7 normally get European tv money too,plus by and large its the teams that have established themselves as global brands who finish in the top places so they've got all the merch sales too. There's no need to make them even richer compared to prem league minnows by paying out drastically different amounts depending on league finishing position.

Instead distribute that money evenly 23 ways. The 20 teams that played the season plus the 3 teams that have just got promoted as a "golden handshake". That works out at around £29 million per team on top of the £95 million (?) each team currently gets for being in the prem. (Happy to have some cash bonus for 1st 2nd and 3rd but that's it.)

Why stop at the money for finishing positions?

Back in the early days of TV coverage the payments linked to the amount of times you are on TV for clubs were meant to compensate them for the additional cost/loss in revenue due to the televised game.

Now, those payments far outstrip any kid of revenue (if indeed there is a loss in revenue) - so just don't ask the TV money evenly.

Whether you are on TV once, or 38 times, you get the same.

That would, again, even up the position in the PL. It would probably further increase the gap between the PL and the EFL.

More even distribution across the Pl and EFL is the only way you sort this out - but that ain't ever going to happen and everything else is testing the symptom, not the cause.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Why stop at the money for finishing positions?

Back in the early days of TV coverage the payments linked to the amount of times you are on TV for clubs were meant to compensate them for the additional cost/loss in revenue due to the televised game.

Now, those payments far outstrip any kid of revenue (if indeed there is a loss in revenue) - so just don't ask the TV money evenly.

Whether you are on TV once, or 38 times, you get the same.

That would, again, even up the position in the PL. It would probably further increase the gap between the PL and the EFL.

More even distribution across the Pl and EFL is the only way you sort this out - but that ain't ever going to happen and everything else is testing the symptom, not the cause.

It did cross my mind that way, but literally every time you're on tv (fri-mon) you do inconvenience fans from their (traditionally) preferred Saturday 3pm time. So if you inconvenience one set of fans far more often than another, its bit grim to say "yeah we're gonna fuck your lot about way more and give you nothing for it in compensation".

That said (going off topic now) - now there are so many Saturday afternoon events (day parties) I'd not complain if Saturday 3pm became Sunday 3pm. Then I dont have to choose between day party or footy.. I can do both!

 

[Selly]

It did cross my mind that way, but literally every time you're on tv (fri-mon) you do inconvenience fans from their (traditionally) preferred Saturday 3pm time. So if you inconvenience one set of fans far more often than another, its bit grim to say "yeah we're gonna fuck your lot about way more and give you nothing for it in compensation".

That said (going off topic now) - now there are so many Saturday afternoon events (day parties) I'd not complain if Saturday 3pm became Sunday 3pm. Then I dont have to choose between day party or footy.. I can do both!

But the fans aren't getting anything anyway!

Alternative suggestion, if you are on telly, use the TV money to discount the tickets.

Club gets the money out would have anyway, fans get a bit back for the inconvenience.

Won't happen, because there's nowt in it for the clubs though...

 

[s20Blade]

l would propose that every year the 3 team promoted from the championship have a 3 year grace period where they cannot be relegated even if they finish in the bottom 3. This would give them a fighting chance and make it a lot more competitive. Any views?

The 3 teams would just play the academy lads to get smashed for three years until they had to spend to compete. That would cause absolute mayhem!

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

But the fans aren't getting anything anyway!

Alternative suggestion, if you are on telly, use the TV money to discount the tickets.

Club gets the money out would have anyway, fans get a bit back for the inconvenience.

Won't happen, because there's nowt in it for the clubs though...

As a fan I benefit from my club earning more money from those extra tv appearances which they will spend shrewdly (lol), leading to an improved team on the pitch.

 

[penthouseblade]

l would propose that every year the 3 team promoted from the championship have a 3 year grace period where they cannot be relegated even if they finish in the bottom 3. This would give them a fighting chance and make it a lot more competitive. Any views?

Are you being serious? I really can’t tell!

 

[Sithblade]

They don't really come to any positive answer to this situation, but basically it's getting to the point where you need one of the long term PL teams to really screw up to have a chance of survival. Oh and lots of money.

 

[Lucky1979]

Right up there with the thread suggesting we’re better than Leeds if you deduct the 6 points they took off us. It’s rare you see such genius, not once but twice, on these boards in such quick succession

 

[LBA_Blade]

The "European Super League" idea where it isn't a restructured Champions League but the actual "commercial valuable" teams go into their own league would help our system to some extent. As you would lose Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man United, Man City and Spurs leaving 6 spots to be "upfilled" although the Premier League would be massively weaker in terms of appeal and talent and would lose it's "number 1 league in the world" title, clubs like us would have a better chance of both survival and being sustainable
If "uplifting" to fill the void now the clubs would be as below. Competition wise, it would be interesting to see how it went without the "big 6"

Nottm Forest
Newcastle
Bournemouth
Brighton
Fulham
Aston Villa
Brentford
Crystal Palace
West Ham
Everton
Wolves
Ipswich Town
Leicester City
Southampton
Leeds United
Sheffield United
Burnley
Sunderland
Coventry
West Brom