Rules that could benefit the current pyramid system

[Woodward's Currie]

l would propose that every year the 3 team promoted from the championship have a 3 year grace period where they cannot be relegated even if they finish in the bottom 3. This would give them a fighting chance and make it a lot more competitive. Any views?

 

[RammyBlade]

No from me as its counter intuitive to competition

 

[Houston_Blade]

There are loads of things that can be done, none of them ever will be.

In terms of this particular proposal I completely disagree with it, it makes an absolute mockery of the promotion/relegation structure and would never be approved by any of the member clubs as it drags the likes of Wolves, Palace, Everton and even Man Utd this season into things.

I don’t have the answer myself but this isn’t it.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

l would propose that every year the 3 team promoted from the championship have a 3 year grace period where they cannot be relegated even if they finish in the bottom 3. This would give them a fighting chance and make it a lot more competitive. Any views?

So you would have 9 Ex Championship sides in the Premiership before one could be relegated, So half the Premiership.
Yep I can see the Premiership agreeing to that.
You are not called Baldrick by any chance are you.

 

[Woodward's Currie]

So you would have 9 Ex Championship sides in the Premiership before one could be relegated, So half the Premiership.
Yep I can see the Premiership agreeing to that.
You are not called Baldrick by any chance are you.

The title was "could benefit".Agreement was never up for discussion.

 

[b1ade4life]

Bottom 3 of prem and top 3 of the championship have a play off

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

l would propose that every year the 3 team promoted from the championship have a 3 year grace period where they cannot be relegated even if they finish in the bottom 3. This would give them a fighting chance and make it a lot more competitive. Any views?

Nice try Chris, nice try...

 

[Eels]

I don't know. How about 12 teams in all divisions. Two seasons a year - Feb-June and Aug-Dec. No play-offs - three up three down. No cup competitions. Transfers only during January and July close season months. No loans.
If you're having a good season you don't have to worry about playing some team that finished 20 points below you to get promoted. If you're having a shit season it'll soon be over. If a player doesn't feature in your plans you sell him or release him.

 

[JJBlade]

Bottom 3 of prem and top 3 of the championship have a play off

Top two should always go up
Bottom two in Premier League to go down

Then 18th and 17th in the Prem go into play offs with 3rd and 4th in the Championship

I've always thought 6th in the Championship is not deserving, they're not much more than a mid table team who's had a better run in than the rest

 

[Snowflake]

Bottom 3 of prem and top 3 of the championship have a play off

Bottom 2 go down and replaced by Championship top 2.Third in Championship plays off against18th in PL

 

[b1ade4life]

Bottom 2 go down and replaced by Championship top 2.Third in Championship plays off against18th in PL

Like this

 

[dc_blade]

Public ownership of all clubs.

 

[BrisBlade]

I can't see an relegation amnesty ever being acceptable and nor should it be. Last season we deserved relegation.

There are definitely some things that could be done that may be acceptable.
Number one for me is additional loan spots for promoted teams (5 in season one, 4 in season two, and 3 in season three). The bigger teams would probably be OK with it as it's an opportunity for them to develop experience for top prospects and put fringe players in the shop window. It would give promoted teams an opportunity to get better players and reduce financial risk of relegation substantially.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Season 4.. 9 teams promoted.. none of them relegated.. be better footy in the championship

 

[Champagneblade]

If you wanted to make it fairer then you’d have a draft system like in the US where the crap teams get first pitch on the next batch of Academy graduates.

It won’t happen for many obvious reasons. Ie Academies are already affiliated to one club already and the more successful clubs would resist a threat to their oligopoly.

 

[Melbourne Blade]

It's not really solving the problem. I'm all about addressing the root cause and not the current issue.

A more equitable solution may involve the promoted teams receiving a higher proportion of revenue (in their first year promoted) to at least compete and have some skin in the game.. However this is just flooding the EPL with more money which will only increase costs in the long run.

There isnt an ideal solution unfortunately. It's shit or bust. As a poster above said the mid to low table teams are almost guaranteeing the fact there'll be 3 worst teams than them (Eg the newly promoted teams) and building it into their financial model. It's all fucked

 

[Ron_Justice]

Like the idea of a playoff between PL-18th and Champ-3rd.

How about an added step - another playoff between PL-17th and Champ-4th. The prize isn't promotion/relegation though, it's financial - half the base level of money for PL teams. Like £50M or something? If they win, it'd give the team scraping 17th a chance to reinforce for sustained PL existence*. If the Champ-4th place win, it'd make the following years Championship that much more competitive as you'd have a 4th team able to compete, financially, with the Parachute teams and it'd help bridge the financial gap between the PL-17th and Champ-4th clubs.

* the chance of bottom half PL teams gambling and actively aiming for 17th, to get a chance of an extra £50M seems remote at best and an idiotic strategy. If it's a real fear, maybe a 25% prize instead of 50% would be better.

 

[Whiston Blade]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There needs to be a Championship playoff format change as well as the introduction of the PL relegation playoff.

Championship Playoffs;

1st Champions
2nd Runners-up
3rd place, automatically in the playoff final, has the better chance due to their high finish.
4th place, plays the winner of 5th vs 6th (at home), winner advances to the final vs 3rd.
5th place, vs 6th place.
6th place, away at 5th, has a harder chance through the playoffs due to finishing the lowest.


PL Playoffs;

15th place, automatically in the playoff final, has the better chance due to their high finish.
16th place, plays the winner of 17th vs 18th (at home), winner advances to the final vs 15th.
17th place, vs 18th place.
18th place, away at 17th, has a harder chance at survival due to finishing 18th.
19th Go down automatically
20th Go down automatically

 

[wak1889]

l would propose that every year the 3 team promoted from the championship have a 3 year grace period where they cannot be relegated even if they finish in the bottom 3. This would give them a fighting chance and make it a lot more competitive. Any views?

I wouldn't go as far as that but certainly the championship winners being immune to relegation for the first season would be interesting

 

[Sheffsteel]

The problem with the title is “benefit”…….benefit who?

What you find is that every league, every club and just about every fan is totally selfish.
They want a system that benefits their club.

The problem is every season there must be winners and losers…..over achievers and under achievers….therefore someone will always complain it’s unfair.

Teams established in the PL think it’s brilliant…..the best league in the world.
They’d prefer a close shop…..no relegations…..and the recent substitutions and time wasting rules and put the onus on squad depth
So established clubs now have zero fear of being relegated but they are gauranteed to be promoted the following season from the Championship.

Fans of teams who can’t get in the PL blame parachute payments for their failure and wanting it changing
…..not to benefit the pyramid….they want a change to help their club reach the PL.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I wouldn't go as far as that but certainly the championship winners being immune to relegation for the first season would be interesting

It would become a farce because even better teams will have to be relegated.
So you’d have the 3 relegated clubs gaining over 100 points every season.

 

[Eels]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There needs to be a Championship playoff format change as well as the introduction of the PL relegation playoff.

Championship Playoffs;

1st Champions
2nd Runners-up
3rd place, automatically in the playoff final, has the better chance due to their high finish.
4th place, plays the winner of 5th vs 6th (at home), winner advances to the final vs 3rd.
5th place, vs 6th place.
6th place, away at 5th, has a harder chance through the playoffs due to finishing the lowest.


PL Playoffs;

15th place, automatically in the playoff final, has the better chance due to their high finish.
16th place, plays the winner of 17th vs 18th (at home), winner advances to the final vs 15th.
17th place, vs 18th place.
18th place, away at 17th, has a harder chance at survival due to finishing 18th.
19th Go down automatically
20th Go down automatically

Not sure your PL relegation plan works. 15th v 16th would have to play first with the winner staying up while loser plays 17th. Same again next game - winner stays up while loser plays 18th. Wouldn't this mean 18th place only had to play once while 15th or 16th might have to play three times?
I much prefer 3rd v 18th, 4th v 17th, 5th v 16th. Winners up/losers down . Possibly five teams swapping divisions.

 

[Brian Deane]

Bottom 3 of prem and top 3 of the championship have a play off

Bristol City and Carl Shutt spring to mind .....

 

[loyalblade95]

- A mandatory wage cap, would make stop smaller clubs losing out to big clubs over wages.

- Distribute the money throughout the pyramid properly, rather than let the Premier League stick the middle finger up at the lesser EFL owners.

- Stop letting the rules be decided only by the 20 current premier league teams, like they did with cup replays.

- Draft some financial rules that all four leagues can agree on, which would scrap the broken PSR rules that prevent none top 6 clubs from having a genuine challenge at the top 4, like what happened with Newcastle being unable to spend.

- Get the 115 charge Man City situation sorted out, the longer it goes on the more and more it feels like it's becoming a bit of a joke now.

 

[Selly]

Bottom 3 of prem and top 3 of the championship have a play off

Top two should always go up
Bottom two in Premier League to go down

Then 18th and 17th in the Prem go into play offs with 3rd and 4th in the Championship

I've always thought 6th in the Championship is not deserving, they're not much more than a mid table team who's had a better run in than the rest

Bottom 2 go down and replaced by Championship top 2.Third in Championship plays off against18th in PL

This is an absolutely awful idea. Given the disparity in resources I'd be very surprised if the Championship team won more than 2/10 years.

Reducing the number of teams promoted is never going to make the pyramid better.

 

[Selly]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There needs to be a Championship playoff format change as well as the introduction of the PL relegation playoff.

Championship Playoffs;

1st Champions
2nd Runners-up
3rd place, automatically in the playoff final, has the better chance due to their high finish.
4th place, plays the winner of 5th vs 6th (at home), winner advances to the final vs 3rd.
5th place, vs 6th place.
6th place, away at 5th, has a harder chance through the playoffs due to finishing the lowest.

Yep - this should be happening - always with the higher placed team at home, get rid of the game at Wembley - and if the game is a draw on 120 mins, the higher placed team goes through. No penalties.

PL Playoffs;

15th place, automatically in the playoff final, has the better chance due to their high finish.
16th place, plays the winner of 17th vs 18th (at home), winner advances to the final vs 15th.
17th place, vs 18th place.
18th place, away at 17th, has a harder chance at survival due to finishing 18th.
19th Go down automatically
20th Go down automatically

Erm, what?

If this is a relegation playoff then the 18th placed team need to automatically "in the final" the rest of the teams are playing to avoid the final. So 15th plays 16th (at 15ths gaff) and the loser then hosts 17th, the loser then hosts the 18th placed team and the loser gets relegated.

The 15th placed team would have to lose sucessive games against 16th, 17th and 18th placed teams (all at home) in order to go down.

The only drawback, the 18th placed team would be nice and rested whereas whoever they play would have played at least one extra game.

Quite honestly simply make it 17th vs 18th and leave it at that.

 

[Selly]

"Benefit the pyramid" - if we take that to mean that we have more even competition with a lower disparity in resources between clubs then the biggest issue you have is that anything that is substantial an that would actually address the root cause of the issue is never going to be agreed by the PL - lets look at some of the suggestions in here (and to be clear, I like some of these suggestions, but I don`t see 14/20 clubs voting for them):

l would propose that every year the 3 team promoted from the championship have a 3 year grace period where they cannot be relegated even if they finish in the bottom 3. This would give them a fighting chance and make it a lot more competitive. Any views?

Zero chance of the PL agreeing to that and I don`t think it would benefit the pyramid, as you'd just have Man U, Everton and West Ham all getting 100 points within a couple of years

Bottom 3 of prem and top 3 of the championship have a play off

The PL probably would agree to this - as it reduces the likelihood of them being relegated - but it worsens the "closed shop" problem that is developing - so - IMO - doesn`t benefit the pyramid

Then 18th and 17th in the Prem go into play offs with 3rd and 4th in the Championship

Interesting thought experiment - would the PL clubs agree to this as it gives the team in 18th a lifeline, whilst at the same time impacting the team in 17th - bearing in mind they will be playing with a loaded deck. I suspect they wouldn`t.

A more equitable solution may involve the promoted teams receiving a higher proportion of revenue (in their first year promoted) to at least compete and have some skin in the game.. However this is just flooding the EPL with more money which will only increase costs in the long run.

Can`t see 14/20 PL clubs agreeing to make the teams coming up more competitive unfortunately - they like it how it is.

- A mandatory wage cap, would make stop smaller clubs losing out to big clubs over wages.

I like this - no way the PL clubs agree to a cap that would actually aceive what you are trying to do - it would be placed so high that we wouldn`t realistically be able to hit it without bankrupting ourselves

- Distribute the money throughout the pyramid properly, rather than let the Premier League stick the middle finger up at the lesser EFL owners.

This is what's needed - won`t ever be agreed to - every time they increase (in cash terms, but often a decrease in percentage terms) the amount they send to the EFL, the extract some form of additional concession, whether its Cup replays, B teams in the EFL Trophy etc etc

- Stop letting the rules be decided only by the 20 current premier league teams, like they did with cup replays.

see above

- Draft some financial rules that all four leagues can agree on, which would scrap the broken PSR rules that prevent none top 6 clubs from having a genuine challenge at the top 4, like what happened with Newcastle being unable to spend.

Whilst I agree in principle - we cannot be in a position where clubs are loaded with debt after debt and eventually go bankrupt. Allow as much capital injection as you want, but limit the amount of debt. And introduce an escrow system. Any contract you agree with a player you have to put the cash in an escrow account - that would prevent clubs from signing players to contracts they can`t afford in the longer term.

- Get the 115 charge Man City situation sorted out, the longer it goes on the more and more it feels like it's becoming a bit of a joke now.

That's a given - however anyone expecting a "proper" punishment will be left disappointed. they won`t relegate them, and they won`t deduct enough points to relegate them. the cynic in me says this is all starting to look like WHU 2006/07 all over again - push the decision to the end of the season so you can make sure they aren`t really impacted.

Selly's prediction - punishment announced in Mid April - deducting them c 30 points* this year (and maybe some next year), which leaves them comfortably clear of relegation. And everything else covered by an astronomical fine (which won`t end up anywhere useful) and a load of "suspended" punishments.

*basically as many points as they can get away with whilst leaving them safe

 

[Selly]

Personally I'd like to see (and again, they won`t ever be agreed by the PL):

• 50/50 gate splits
• TV money distributed completely evenly - you shouldn't get more cash simply by being on TV (perhaps a token amount to make up for lost revenue)
• some form of regulation to prevent clubs from hoarding players - limits to the number of players you can have registered to your club at each age range up to 21 - and a limit for over 21's as well - no more 70/80 player "squads" - if you can`t get by on 24 players (plus your under 21's) then tough.
• regulation to prevent abuse of the above by moving players between clubs in the same "group"
• regulation to prevent "odd" transfer fees between clubs in the same group especially where one of the clubs isn`t covered by PSR etc*
• limits to the number of players that a club can have out on loan
• removal of B teams from the EFL trophy

Those last three seek to reduce the desirability of the current system of just hoovering up everyone, and then using the loan system to develop them



*for instance "Dodgy" group own both PL team A and a team in the Chinese Super league. PL team A sell a player to the Chinese Super League team for a value far in excess of the players true value - but now they have made a fortune on the books and have successfully manipulated PSR. Bonus points if they then Loan him back, or even buy him back a year laters for half the cost.

 

[Tickhill Blade]

How about just banning loans altogether? You can only play for the team that has your registration.

Promising young players can then go to the big clubs for the money, but the trade off is they will never play. Should mean more of them stay at clubs lower down the pyramid, costing those clubs less in wages.

Also go back to the old transfer system, where they can happen at any point in the season other than the run-in. The only reason the transfer windows exist is to ramp up fees/wages/agent payments.

 

[shorehamview]

Limit loans to a maximum of three in and three out. Looking at you, Chelsea in particular.

No B teams allowed in lower competitions.

FA Cup back to replays until there’s a winner.

Salary cap, and spending cap.

Teams operating at a loss get a transfer ban until their finances are back in the black.

Shoot Andy Townsend.

Transfer window applies to managers as well as players. No sacking them any time you feel like it.

Limit squad sizes to 24 plus under 21s.

Shoot Andy Townsend again, just to be on the safe side.