Robotic Football

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Yakblade

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No this isn't a post about robots playing football (as interesting as that could be!!). Cesc Fabregas said that football is becoming too robotic ie coaches telling players exactly what to do on a pitch and basically putting a leash on flair players. This does strlike a chord with with me.

I coach an U13 girls football team and the emphasis is simply on the girls enjoying the football. We give them the basics and put them in a formation and then just let them go out and play. But I also help out with a boys U17 team and I have disagreed with the manager about one thing in particular. He tries to give them a set way to play for every scenario. If a player goes against his plan by beating an extra man for example, he'll stop training and make them do it again. For me this is wrong. It takes away a footballers natural instinct for the game. And this is kind of what I see with United.

Too often the players look lost if plan A fails. The ball gets played back to the keeper and they either try the same tactic again with the same result or the ball is lumped upfield and lost. Any flair seems to have been coached out of them. If a player does show some individual skill more often than not there's no one reacting to it because it isn't part of the plan. CWAK gave us some of the best football I have seen in my lifetime but it did feel like they players were overcoached.

It's a worrying trend that has crept into football of late. Hopefully Slav can introduce some flair and excitement back into our play and us back to the promised land.
 

Lane Ender

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No this isn't a post about robots playing football (as interesting as that could be!!). Cesc Fabregas said that football is becoming too robotic ie coaches telling players exactly what to do on a pitch and basically putting a leash on flair players. This does strlike a chord with with me.

I coach an U13 girls football team and the emphasis is simply on the girls enjoying the football. We give them the basics and put them in a formation and then just let them go out and play. But I also help out with a boys U17 team and I have disagreed with the manager about one thing in particular. He tries to give them a set way to play for every scenario. If a player goes against his plan by beating an extra man for example, he'll stop training and make them do it again. For me this is wrong. It takes away a footballers natural instinct for the game. And this is kind of what I see with United.

Too often the players look lost if plan A fails. The ball gets played back to the keeper and they either try the same tactic again with the same result or the ball is lumped upfield and lost. Any flair seems to have been coached out of them. If a player does show some individual skill more often than not there's no one reacting to it because it isn't part of the plan. CWAK gave us some of the best football I have seen in my lifetime but it did feel like they players were overcoached.

It's a worrying trend that has crept into football of late. Hopefully Slav can introduce some flair and excitement back into our play and us back to the promised land.
Couldn’t agree more emphasis should be based on attacking play robotic play is killing the game
 

Drunk blade

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No this isn't a post about robots playing football (as interesting as that could be!!). Cesc Fabregas said that football is becoming too robotic ie coaches telling players exactly what to do on a pitch and basically putting a leash on flair players. This does strlike a chord with with me.

I coach an U13 girls football team and the emphasis is simply on the girls enjoying the football. We give them the basics and put them in a formation and then just let them go out and play. But I also help out with a boys U17 team and I have disagreed with the manager about one thing in particular. He tries to give them a set way to play for every scenario. If a player goes against his plan by beating an extra man for example, he'll stop training and make them do it again. For me this is wrong. It takes away a footballers natural instinct for the game. And this is kind of what I see with United.

Too often the players look lost if plan A fails. The ball gets played back to the keeper and they either try the same tactic again with the same result or the ball is lumped upfield and lost. Any flair seems to have been coached out of them. If a player does show some individual skill more often than not there's no one reacting to it because it isn't part of the plan. CWAK gave us some of the best football I have seen in my lifetime but it did feel like they players were overcoached.

It's a worrying trend that has crept into football of late. Hopefully Slav can introduce some flair and excitement back into our play and us back to the promised land.
I agree we were boring as fuck this season, It's so good the season is over and we don't have to watch them anymore ☺️
 

Geordie Blade

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Too often the players look lost if plan A fails. The ball gets played back to the keeper and they either try the same tactic again with the same result or the ball is lumped upfield and lost. Any flair seems to have been coached out of them. If a player does show some individual skill more often than not there's no one reacting to it because it isn't part of the plan. CWAK gave us some of the best football I have seen in my lifetime but it did feel like they players were overcoached.

I hate to say it, but this is where a manager like Bielsa has the balance spot on. He coaches them to a certain level and general style, but ultimately let’s them play with freedom.
 

Webding

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But anyway, the entire reason we got to the Premier League was because we were over-coached. Much as I love them, there’s no way that group of players get any higher than the middle of the Championship without an innovative way of playing that’s methodically drilled into them.
 

Blacksea

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Definitely,we were overcoached under Wilder,flair and individuality came second to the team ethic,and the higher we went,the more robotic we got.Wilder had us playing with the handbrake firmly on most of the time,and the glimpses of off the cuff football became almost non existent in the end.
 

jono_t2000

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No this isn't a post about robots playing football (as interesting as that could be!!). Cesc Fabregas said that football is becoming too robotic ie coaches telling players exactly what to do on a pitch and basically putting a leash on flair players. This does strlike a chord with with me.

I coach an U13 girls football team and the emphasis is simply on the girls enjoying the football. We give them the basics and put them in a formation and then just let them go out and play. But I also help out with a boys U17 team and I have disagreed with the manager about one thing in particular. He tries to give them a set way to play for every scenario. If a player goes against his plan by beating an extra man for example, he'll stop training and make them do it again. For me this is wrong. It takes away a footballers natural instinct for the game. And this is kind of what I see with United.

Too often the players look lost if plan A fails. The ball gets played back to the keeper and they either try the same tactic again with the same result or the ball is lumped upfield and lost. Any flair seems to have been coached out of them. If a player does show some individual skill more often than not there's no one reacting to it because it isn't part of the plan. CWAK gave us some of the best football I have seen in my lifetime but it did feel like they players were overcoached.

It's a worrying trend that has crept into football of late. Hopefully Slav can introduce some flair and excitement back into our play and us back to the promised land.

I wrote this in another thread regarding cricket, but only when McCullum from NZ sat down with England team after smashing them around the park and told them to stop playing proper cricket shots you are coached and instead be themselves and they will succeed in the shorter form of the game.

Low and behold shortly after this England rocketed up the rankings playing more unorthodox individual flair cricket.

Same could go with football... ur scouted for ur unique talents and then they are refined into almost non existence (more so in Europe than South America)
 
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Exactly. Had this argument on here a few weeks ago. If you can run fast -tick. If you’ve got a good engine -tick. If you’re strong- tick. Can you play football ? “What”.
Unfortunately watched England v Austria tother night and the whole commentary was “ see how he runs the channels” . “ We need someone to run through the lines”. “ He’s got pace to burn”( crossing was shit but hey ho.). Then to top it all we have Jack Grealish diving around like a 5 year old at a wedding. In 93 minutes not one sign of off the cuff skill or talent.
Sub comes on only after he has taken in and read 8 pages of tactics. You get one of the back “four” comes behond the half way line and their nose starts to bleed. Same from corners , they always have to take up the same spot of grass and God forbid if someone pinches someone’s pog.
100% over coached.
Unfortunately Gareth Southgate who would definitely be in the top 10 of nicest people in the UK is shall we say: “ not the man for the job”. Im sure people will see it differently .
 

Lane Ender

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Definitely,we were overcoached under Wilder,flair and individuality came second to the team ethic,and the higher we went,the more robotic we got.Wilder had us playing with the handbrake firmly on most of the time,and the glimpses of off the cuff football became almost non existent in the end.
Yea we played fear football last season under Wilder plenty of 1-0 defeats against a lot of mediocre sides cost us in the end.
 

steve26272

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Exactly. Had this argument on here a few weeks ago. If you can run fast -tick. If you’ve got a good engine -tick. If you’re strong- tick. Can you play football ? “What”.
Unfortunately watched England v Austria tother night and the whole commentary was “ see how he runs the channels” . “ We need someone to run through the lines”. “ He’s got pace to burn”( crossing was shit but hey ho.). Then to top it all we have Jack Grealish diving around like a 5 year old at a wedding. In 93 minutes not one sign of off the cuff skill or talent.
Sub comes on only after he has taken in and read 8 pages of tactics. You get one of the back “four” comes behond the half way line and their nose starts to bleed. Same from corners , they always have to take up the same spot of grass and God forbid if someone pinches someone’s pog.
100% over coached.
Unfortunately Gareth Southgate who would definitely be in the top 10 of nicest people in the UK is shall we say: “ not the man for the job”. Im sure people will see it differently .

100% agree, and couldn’t help but think that had this methodology been around for the last 20 years we wouldn’t have seen the likes of Glyn Hodges, Ndlovu, etc

I think the problem with football now is it’s business first, and entertainment a distant 2nd
 

Aganarama

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Welcome to gridiron (almost!). Set plays. And even quarterbacks. And don’t forget we were ahead of the game with Simonsen as kicker… 😮
 

Ralph Blade

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Guess you’re watching the Turkey v Italy game? Boring robotic nonsense.
Yes I’m afraid it’s a real turn off. A showcase tournament and the opening game looks like Man City v Sheffield United.

I think towards the end they gave out a stat that Italy had had over twenty chances, of course it must be true but it didn’t feel like that kind of game.

I just don’t like this playing it out from the back possession based, go all the way back to the goalie from an attacking position only for them to hoof the ball out for a throw in nonsense.

I watched the FA Youth Cup final recently, 90 minutes of end to end football, players showing genuine, exciting flair and chances galore, yet at the back of my mind, I could only think of the depressing prospect that any of them getting near the first team will have had the entertainment coached out of them.
 

XM657

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No this isn't a post about robots playing football (as interesting as that could be!!). Cesc Fabregas said that football is becoming too robotic ie coaches telling players exactly what to do on a pitch and basically putting a leash on flair players. This does strlike a chord with with me.

I coach an U13 girls football team and the emphasis is simply on the girls enjoying the football. We give them the basics and put them in a formation and then just let them go out and play. But I also help out with a boys U17 team and I have disagreed with the manager about one thing in particular. He tries to give them a set way to play for every scenario. If a player goes against his plan by beating an extra man for example, he'll stop training and make them do it again. For me this is wrong. It takes away a footballers natural instinct for the game. And this is kind of what I see with United.

Too often the players look lost if plan A fails. The ball gets played back to the keeper and they either try the same tactic again with the same result or the ball is lumped upfield and lost. Any flair seems to have been coached out of them. If a player does show some individual skill more often than not there's no one reacting to it because it isn't part of the plan. CWAK gave us some of the best football I have seen in my lifetime but it did feel like they players were overcoached.

It's a worrying trend that has crept into football of late. Hopefully Slav can introduce some flair and excitement back into our play and us back to the promised land.
Agree 100%, killing pro football and what goes on there filters down to the lowest levels.
I also see the same in society in general, everyone telling each other what they can and cannot do or say.
Breeds fear, fear on the pitch and the streets of being a failure.
If one doesn't fail then one cannot grow, and after all failure shows humanity,
🎶"I get knocked down, but I get up again"🎶
For what it's worth I recon it's all brain washing, seriously.
 

AWetFlannel

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I disagree, coaching flair players to use their skill in certain situations for the benefit of the team makes sense in a team sport.

We were coached fantastically under CWAK and it showed. Consistent brilliance all the way to the Prem, massively over achieved and brilliant to watch.
 

Blade.com

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I disagree, coaching flair players to use their skill in certain situations for the benefit of the team makes sense in a team sport.

We were coached fantastically under CWAK and it showed. Consistent brilliance all the way to the Prem, massively over achieved and brilliant to watch.
True. But where was plan B when needed. 100% need coaching but not to todays standards.
 

AWetFlannel

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True. But where was plan B when needed. 100% need coaching but not to todays standards.
We had a plan B and C in League 1 and the Championship, and used them to great effect.

In the Prem, punching massively above our weight, plan A worked ridiculously well the first season, making us reluctant to change it up. CWAK likely thought that the plan B they had had next to no hope in bridging the massive gap in quality that plan A did.

Your criticism can still be made, but surely it's not the fault of over-coaching.
 

Davalon

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You'll hear many people in the game say they find Academy football boring as it's very regimented.

Players obviously need to be well drilled for certain systems to work but you still need flair players to do things off the cuff.

Look at our rise up the leagues recently. Despite how well the system worked we still needed people like Duffy to go round an extra man or pop up with some individual bit of brilliance at times.

I've heard pundits say they think players are over-coached at times and I do think with modern technology people are always going to different lengths to find that extra 1% which can sometimes make it a little too methodical.
 

Bladesthorpe

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I packed up playing when I was 45 I'm now 74 and think I could still play centre half ( back) .Goalie gives me the ball I walk it to the halfway line, turn pass it to another defender he gives it me back and then I pass it back to the keeper. REPEAT.😴
 

Guesty

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Oh God, it's hard to look away. I think it's that split second where the 'keeper has committed to the dive, but is still frozen in mid-air that really sells it.

Exactly. Had this argument on here a few weeks ago. If you can run fast -tick. If you’ve got a good engine -tick. If you’re strong- tick. Can you play football ? “What”.
Unfortunately watched England v Austria tother night and the whole commentary was “ see how he runs the channels” . “ We need someone to run through the lines”. “ He’s got pace to burn”( crossing was shit but hey ho.). Then to top it all we have Jack Grealish diving around like a 5 year old at a wedding. In 93 minutes not one sign of off the cuff skill or talent.
Sub comes on only after he has taken in and read 8 pages of tactics. You get one of the back “four” comes behond the half way line and their nose starts to bleed. Same from corners , they always have to take up the same spot of grass and God forbid if someone pinches someone’s pog.

I agree with a lot of this but it's funny reading it from a poster named after a famous fictional runner with a great engine!

It's interesting about robotic football, Jose Mourinho would be at the top of a lot of people's lists of boring, pragmatic managers but I remember reading that he didn't like coaching the players about what to do in specific situations (excluding set pieces I'm sure) because he thinks football is too creative and off-the-cuff for such situational training to be any use.

It would appear that Fabregas has come across managers who think quite differently.
 

BushBlade

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No this isn't a post about robots playing football (as interesting as that could be!!). Cesc Fabregas said that football is becoming too robotic ie coaches telling players exactly what to do on a pitch and basically putting a leash on flair players. This does strlike a chord with with me.

I coach an U13 girls football team and the emphasis is simply on the girls enjoying the football. We give them the basics and put them in a formation and then just let them go out and play. But I also help out with a boys U17 team and I have disagreed with the manager about one thing in particular. He tries to give them a set way to play for every scenario. If a player goes against his plan by beating an extra man for example, he'll stop training and make them do it again. For me this is wrong. It takes away a footballers natural instinct for the game. And this is kind of what I see with United.

Too often the players look lost if plan A fails. The ball gets played back to the keeper and they either try the same tactic again with the same result or the ball is lumped upfield and lost. Any flair seems to have been coached out of them. If a player does show some individual skill more often than not there's no one reacting to it because it isn't part of the plan. CWAK gave us some of the best football I have seen in my lifetime but it did feel like they players were overcoached.

It's a worrying trend that has crept into football of late. Hopefully Slav can introduce some flair and excitement back into our play and us back to the promised land.
I don’t think anyone should be coaching kids like that. If someone wants to live out their ‘poor man’s Guardiola’ fantasies, they should be coaching an adults’ team. Although plenty of adult players would just tell them to bollocks, which is why this person is probably trying to ‘impose his vision’ on kids.
 

Deadly_D'Jaffo

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Coincidentally I was watching Football Years this morning and they did a segment on Le Tissier. Seeing the type of goals he scored and the things he did during games got me thinking if anyone today has the inate ability he had let or even dare try them?

Most modern footballers are risk averse, I don't know if that comes from systemic coaching or specific instructions during game (e.g. the KPI's from wearable trackers) but it has taken that 'edge of your seat' element out of the game.
 

JimW1889

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I remember watching an under the cosh on YouTube with Chris Kirkland. He said Rafa Benitez would spend hours in training simply standing in different areas of the pitch with the ball, and all the players had to go to the correct position based on where the ball was. Must have been somewhat effective, but can only imagine how boring it would be.
 

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