Incoming? Ricky-Jade Jones

[CaptainMorgans]

I agree - just watched Forest v Liverpool and Forest have a number of players with frightening pace but average ability. When games get stretched or when playing on the counter, pace is hugely important and we haven’t got enough of it at the moment.

You think Hudson-Odoi, Elanga and MGW have average ability?

I don't think you, or many on this thread have seen RJJ play or you wouldn't be clamouring for his signature.
For clarity, he is MILES off the level of any of the aforementioned players and his ceiling is nowhere near where they're at either.

 

[Blade56]

Cheers for cheering me up B56

It’s me job, chief jester

 

[moody1889]

I agree - just watched Forest v Liverpool and Forest have a number of players with frightening pace but average ability. When games get stretched or when playing on the counter, pace is hugely important and we haven’t got enough of it at the moment.

It could make a huge difference to our team, if you have a player with that pace running at you I think you will find they will have to try and double up at times which will create space for team mates to run into.

If we can get him for a million or so I think that would be great business.

 

[moody1889]

You think Hudson-Odoi, Elanga and MGW have average ability?

I don't think you, or many on this thread have seen RJJ play or you wouldn't be clamouring for his signature.
For clarity, he is MILES off the level of any of the aforementioned players and his ceiling is nowhere near where they're at either.

To be fair I recall many Wolves fans calling MGW sh*te and now look at him.

 

[MartBlade]

You think Hudson-Odoi, Elanga and MGW have average ability?

I don't think you, or many on this thread have seen RJJ play or you wouldn't be clamouring for his signature.
For clarity, he is MILES off the level of any of the aforementioned players and his ceiling is nowhere near where they're at either.

I think Elanga has average ability but combined with his pace and Forests style he is a handful.
You’re right that like most of us I haven’t seen much of RJJ but if he’s a player that Wilder thinks he can develop then I’m pretty sure his pace will provide us with a useful weapon.

 

[MartBlade]

It could make a huge difference to our team, if you have a player with that pace running at you I think you will find they will have to try and double up at times which will create space for team mates to run into.

If we can get him for a million or so I think that would be great business.

Spot on

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

I've never seen this bloke play, so I've no idea whether he's any good or not.

Previously Wilder has gone for fast and useless, I'm thinking Ollie Burke, Conor Washington and ???? Hogan, so RJJ might fit that category.

If he's the same as these three, he'll be a frustrating player to watch.

 

[oldandfat]

I am a Posh fan.
RJJ is an incredibly frustrating player to watch. His first touch isn't great, should be better in the air for a man his size, finishing can be erratic. But there is a player in there PLUS he has terrifying pace.
He has started scoring more tap-ins this season, which I think is a good sign. Personally I believe our slow/measured possession based football does not play to his strengths, a team that slips the ball in the channel between centre half and full back would benefit from him.
He has an incredibly high ceiling and could have a good career in the Prem, alternatively he could end up at the Dog & Duck. If he goes to a Championship club in this window he should be signed as an impact/backup striker who will develop.

 

[Torrix1889]

I am a Posh fan.
RJJ is an incredibly frustrating player to watch. His first touch isn't great, should be better in the air for a man his size, finishing can be erratic. But there is a player in there PLUS he has terrifying pace.
He has started scoring more tap-ins this season, which I think is a good sign. Personally I believe our slow/measured possession based football does not play to his strengths, a team that slips the ball in the channel between centre half and full back would benefit from him.
He has an incredibly high ceiling and could have a good career in the Prem, alternatively he could end up at the Dog & Duck. If he goes to a Championship club in this window he should be signed as an impact/backup striker who will develop.

Given we play the same way I don't think we would play to his strengths either....

 

[Vass Borbokis]

I am a Posh fan.
RJJ is an incredibly frustrating player to watch. His first touch isn't great, should be better in the air for a man his size, finishing can be erratic. But there is a player in there PLUS he has terrifying pace.
He has started scoring more tap-ins this season, which I think is a good sign. Personally I believe our slow/measured possession based football does not play to his strengths, a team that slips the ball in the channel between centre half and full back would benefit from him.
He has an incredibly high ceiling and could have a good career in the Prem, alternatively he could end up at the Dog & Duck. If he goes to a Championship club in this window he should be signed as an impact/backup striker who will develop.

Thanks for the great post
Always beneficial to get fans opinions on potential targets.

I've only seen him a handful of times but I do get that impression.
There's potential there certainly.
I'd just love for us to have someone like him with terrifying pace. We're a ridiculously slow team.

 

[moody1889]

Thanks for the great post
Always beneficial to get fans opinions on potential targets.

I've only seen him a handful of times but I do get that impression.
There's potential there certainly.
I'd just love for us to have someone like him with terrifying pace. We're a ridiculously slow team.

Reminds me of a Colin Kazim Richards and Che Adams type punt definitely worth it.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I am a Posh fan.
RJJ is an incredibly frustrating player to watch. His first touch isn't great, should be better in the air for a man his size, finishing can be erratic. But there is a player in there PLUS he has terrifying pace.
He has started scoring more tap-ins this season, which I think is a good sign. Personally I believe our slow/measured possession based football does not play to his strengths, a team that slips the ball in the channel between centre half and full back would benefit from him.
He has an incredibly high ceiling and could have a good career in the Prem, alternatively he could end up at the Dog & Duck. If he goes to a Championship club in this window he should be signed as an impact/backup striker who will develop.

Appreciate Poku's injured, but seeingly the bigger talent with the greater ceiling?

 

[71Blade]

Reminds me of a Colin Kazim Richards and Che Adams type punt definitely worth it.

Punt or a punch

 

[oldandfat]

Appreciate Poku's injured, but seeingly the bigger talent with the greater ceiling?

Poku is a great L1 player and IMO opinion would be a solid Championship player - we certainly get more out of him than RJJ, but if RJJ can "kick on" his ceiling would be higher.

 

[brownblade]

I've barely seen Jade-Jones, but if he's not looking good enough for us, we should be able to flip him for a profit next season. Out of contract in summer so price must be reasonable this January.

 

[I should coco]

I've never seen this bloke play, so I've no idea whether he's any good or not.

Previously Wilder has gone for fast and useless, I'm thinking Ollie Burke, Conor Washington and ???? Hogan, so RJJ might fit that category.

If he's the same as these three, he'll be a frustrating player to watch.

Not a particularly fair post.

Burke was a makeweight to get rid of Callum Robinson, who certainly wasn't performing.

Washington and Hogan were 'just in case' loan backups. If you cast your mind back, Hogan played a small part in our promotion to the Prem in 2019, so he was hardly 'useless'.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

Not a particularly fair post.

Burke was a makeweight to get rid of Callum Robinson, who certainly wasn't performing.

Washington and Hogan were 'just in case' loan backups. If you cast your mind back, Hogan played a small part in our promotion to the Prem in 2019, so he was hardly 'useless'.

I don't care how Burke ended up with us, he was useless. Utterly useless.

So was Washington.

Callum Robinson was poor too. Granted he was played out of position, but with the exception of 20 minutes at Chelsea, a waste of £8m.

Hogan wasn't great either really. An impact substitute trying to rebuild his career, after being prolific at Rochdale and a big money move to Villa. He did ok, but we didn't keep him once his loan expired did we???

I'll stand by my original post TVM.

 

[I should coco]

I don't care how Burke ended up with us, he was useless. Utterly useless.

So was Washington.

Callum Robinson was poor too. Granted he was played out of position, but with the exception of 20 minutes at Chelsea, a waste of £8m.

Hogan wasn't great either really. An impact substitute trying to rebuild his career, after being prolific at Rochdale and a big money move to Villa. He did ok, but we didn't keep him once his loan expired did we???

I'll stand by my original post TVM.

No we didn't keep him, but you ignored my point. He got 2 goals in 8 games and helped us get promoted. If you think that's 'useless' there's little point in debating anything with you.

Washington didn't cut it, but most people thought he was a fair punt at the time.

I agree Burke was useless. Pace to burn, but nothing between his ears.

 

[Bladesman]

I've never seen this bloke play, so I've no idea whether he's any good or not.

Previously Wilder has gone for fast and useless, I'm thinking Ollie Burke, Conor Washington and ???? Hogan, so RJJ might fit that category.

If he's the same as these three, he'll be a frustrating player to watch.

Washington was fast?

 

[Derek1889]

I don't care how Burke ended up with us, he was useless. Utterly useless.

So was Washington.

Callum Robinson was poor too. Granted he was played out of position, but with the exception of 20 minutes at Chelsea, a waste of £8m.

Hogan wasn't great either really. An impact substitute trying to rebuild his career, after being prolific at Rochdale and a big money move to Villa. He did ok, but we didn't keep him once his loan expired did we???

I'll stand by my original post TVM.

Sure he was at Brentford before villa

 

[Balham]

Sure he was at Brentford before villa

Yep. Moved from Rochdale to Brentford in July 2014 for £750k then on to Villa (gone to Villa) for £9m in January 2017.

 

[joe casey]

I don't care how Burke ended up with us, he was useless. Utterly useless.

So was Washington.

Callum Robinson was poor too. Granted he was played out of position, but with the exception of 20 minutes at Chelsea, a waste of £8m.

Hogan wasn't great either really. An impact substitute trying to rebuild his career, after being prolific at Rochdale and a big money move to Villa. He did ok, but we didn't keep him once his loan expired did we???

I'll stand by my original post TVM.

Hogan technically scored the goal that sealed our promotion but its always forgotten because of the iconic "forget the maths" JOC header

 

[JohnDenver]

Yep. Moved from Rochdale to Brentford in July 2014 for £750k then on to Villa (gone to Villa) for £9m in January 2017.

Amazing business by Brentford.

Hogan only ever did one thing - run in behind. At Brentford he was in clover given how they played. It’s just not been enough anywhere else.

At least he’ll be set for life on the back of that move.

 

[Balham]

Amazing business by Brentford.

Hogan only ever did one thing - run in behind. At Brentford he was in clover given how they played. It’s just not been enough anywhere else.

At least he’ll be set for life on the back of that move.

Brentford between 2017 and 2020 show exactly how it should be done.

Winter 2017: sell Scott Hogan for £9m (approx £7m profit)
Summer 2017: buy Ollie Watkins for £1.8m and Neal Maupay for ~£1.7m (€2m)
Summer 2018: buy Ezri Konsa for £2.5m and Said Benrahma for £1.5m
Summer 2019: sell Maupay for £15m (£10m profit after clauses) and Konsa for £12m (£8m profit). Buy Bryan Mbuemo for €6m and Pontus Jansson (a rare misstep) for £5m
Summer 2020: sell Watkins for £28m (a £20m profit after clauses) and Benrahma for £25m (£20m profit); buy Ivan Toney for £4.5m
Summer 2021: promoted to the Premier League.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

No we didn't keep him, but you ignored my point. He got 2 goals in 8 games and helped us get promoted. If you think that's 'useless' there's little point in debating anything with you.

Washington didn't cut it, but most people thought he was a fair punt at the time.

I agree Burke was useless. Pace to burn, but nothing between his ears.

So if he'd been any good, we would have tried to keep him surely?

Doesn't that illustrate my point?

I upgraded him from useless to not great,

However, the point still stands, fast players haven't succeeded in Wilder teams (or he can't pick good ones) - Burke, Robinson, Washington, plus Zivchenko, another speed merchant who was dismal and made no impact at all on the field.

Assuming Hogan is in the OK category (I've upgraded him again for you), it's not a compelling argument for Wilder and speed players is it?

Mouset could be counted as a success, briefly, but look how that played out.........

 

[nopigfansintown]

Baldock, Burrows, Calvert Lewin (Northampton), Toney (has high praise for Wilder), Clarke (career best under Wilder), David Brooks, and even the wide centre backs (quick relative to position and reliant on pace and athleticism to fulfil role) could all be classed as quick players that have succeeded in Wilder teams. I'd also add Tyrese Campbell who is succeeding when his body allows him too. Seriki has done his best work under Wilder. You can probably add Bogle too: he was a decent pacy player for United who played his best football here under Wilder. Burke, Robinson, Washington, Zivkovic didn't work but then they were miles out of their depth relative to the level. I'd add James Wilson to that list. It's not that they didn't work here, it's that they didn't work anywhere at the level we played them at here. They simply weren't/aren't at the level they were asked to play here. Moose was a strange one: he had the ability and Wilder is the only manager thus far to ever get a tune out of him. The one pacy player that didn't work that we payed decent money (relative to level for) was Brewster. The rest are all punts at the level pre Cannon. There's genuine expectation (and a degree of pressure) that Cannon will continue to succeed at this level due to the fee we payed.

* The Hogan we got wasn't the Hogan who went to Villa. It was a Hogan that had had multiple career threatening injuries. He did ok, but he wasn't the ridiculous speed boat he was at Brentford nor has he ever been since. That player had been and gone. Brentford had Villa's pants down. He still liked to play on the shoulder and perhaps more crucially score the cut back goals he'd scored at Brentford. This is, I presume, the reason we brought him into our deliberate, possession based overlapping centre back system. To score that type of goal as much as the one when he's on the shoulder receiving a vertical pass. Teams invariably had a deep, narrow low block when plying us anyway, so space in behind was at a premium as we almost always dominated possession..