Really Kevin Really?

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Fair enough, but couldn't placing the fixed assets in the hands of the plc seen as a way of stopping asset stripping investors coming in and buying the whole club, including the ground, and then flogging off the ground for property development. That way the fixed assets are safely in the hands of someone (who whatever one may think of his decision making) is a genuine fan and has an emotional commitment to the club.

Good point, but could be countered, which I will.

The whole point of this exercise is to encourage investment. If I was a billionaire and wanted to splash a bit of cash, I'd want the ground, academy etc, it's as simple as that. I wouldn't be paying £M's to buy some L1 players, and then stump up rent to the man who removed the ground from the club.

That said, then, that if I wanted the whole lot then I'd have to pay tens of millions, possibly as much as £50M. Which the Club isn't worth. Simply put, it's because of KM that we are not attractive. Too much debt, no assets, L1 football. Just how do you get someone genuine to pay for that?
 



Don't talk bollox !

If McCabe was protecting the freehold for the good of the club the letter was a waste of time.
 
Fair enough, but couldn't placing the fixed assets in the hands of the plc seen as a way of stopping asset stripping investors coming in and buying the whole club, including the ground, and then flogging off the ground for property development. That way the fixed assets are safely in the hands of someone (who whatever one may think of his decision making) is a genuine fan and has an emotional commitment to the club.

Is'nt that what McCabe has just made easier for himself to do ? Maybe he is the big Blade and sees selling off the ground as a way of clearing the debt he is responsible for, leaving a bit over to invest in the team just needs to find a ground to share not too far away........ Nah, he has said he wants out he can leave that worry to the mug that buys a below average league one team.
 
Also, once the ownership truly splits, mindsets alter. The first Millmoor lease was pretty favourable to the club, because it was signed up to by the then owner, acting as such. By the time of the first insolvency and the negotiation of a new lease, the deal was much more commercially focussed - it wasn't Rotherham's ground, it was a CF Booth asset and the deal was a proper arm's length negotiation. What's cosy and friendly now mightn't be in a few years time.

Ding-ding-ding-ding!!!!!!!!!

Nail on head.
 
Good point, but could be countered, which I will.

The whole point of this exercise is to encourage investment. If I was a billionaire and wanted to splash a bit of cash, I'd want the ground, academy etc, it's as simple as that. I wouldn't be paying £M's to buy some L1 players, and then stump up rent to the man who removed the ground from the club.

That said, then, that if I wanted the whole lot then I'd have to pay tens of millions, possibly as much as £50M. Which the Club isn't worth. Simply put, it's because of KM that we are not attractive. Too much debt, no assets, L1 football. Just how do you get someone genuine to pay for that?
If you were a billionaire and wanted the whole shooting match then you would buy SUplc. If you aren't quite in that league financially then you buy SUltd, if you could secure a decent deal on renting the ground etc. That is potentially what this transfer of assets does for the club. It could, of course, lead to all sorts of other things as highlighted elsewhere in this thread.
 
That's exactly the same position you took on RB. It seems to be that you wish to ask questions of SUFC or their representatives yet want others to find out the answers for you. I will judge your position as either lazy or cowardly because you will not ask them directly.

Jesus Christ. For the umpteenth time, I do not want to meet Batho or Winter. It's a very straightforward position. They will I am sure work hard - doing what I don't know but I am sure they are dedicated and professional.

I aint bothered about the stale bread or the handryers if that is what you are on about which maybe they can help with. I'm bothered about the slow and painful demise of our beloved football club. You clapperzs seem to deny this demise is taking place so it aint possible to involve you in a debate about it.
 
Hello all,

Long time listener, first time caller etc Decided to sign up yesterday to vent my spleen after the notice to shareholders, and the frustration not just with KM but also with us, the fans and the whole financial situation surrounding the club for the past few years.

Firstly, I don't believe this transfer of assets to be a good move, but with the total ambiguity of the statement it's hard to really know the whys, so as fans we jump to our own conclusions because that's the best we can do and all we've got. My take on it is that the FC will have a reduced debt as along with the assets, the debt will have moved to the PLC too. I'm no accountant, but the debt levels at SUFC in L1 are a)un-sustainable, and b) hardly attractive to an investor considering the £M's it would take to get pennies returned. I'm assuming the investment/sale of SUFC will be the debtless football club, and the debt-ridden PLC will keep with KM but that's where the assets will also lie. If I'm wrong, so be it, but I'm not Scully!

Secondly, we as fans have in the past called for KM (Or McScrooge) to open his wallet to a) get us back to the PL, and then b) back to the Championship. All well and good, but all it appears has happened is that the spending actually just came from SUFC anyway and if it didn't, with the share options that KM took up, it came from one hand in his pocket while his other hand was tightening the grip around the clubs neck. What do we want? We're asking for money to be spent, but not at any cost to the Club, while still peddling (or at least we used to) that we're a well run-club unlike our neighbours. We weren't well run. We just had access to cheap credit and the future would pay it back for us.

Thirdly, and perhaps because we've seen our neighbours implode up until their takeover, we've taken the eye off the ball on our own problems and taken a high ground regarding finances and IMO, we were wrong to do so. Wednesday struggled with debt to effectively 1 bank, and a couple of individuals. How we laughed. The same years, such as the previous couple, we announced losses in the tens of millions of pounds. But, so what, we've got a chairman who'll never call in his loans etc etc. It's other clubs who have debt problems. Sure, we owe £50m, but it's not like real debt, SUFC owe money to KM. KM owns SUFC, therefore SUFC have no debt and KM has lots of debt. Not only that, we had loads of assets which more than cover the debt. Happy days. I have read the boards of here and Blades Mad, I've seen all sorts of terms banded about (mostly plausible possibilities in my opinion) but the one that I have an issue with is that of "asset stripping". Going back a few squares, how can KM strip SUFC assets? For the same reason that SUFC have no debt other than to SUFC, he owns the Club, he owns the debt and owes it to himself, therefore if SUFC has no "real debt", then really, we have no real assets. And how did we get here? By ignoring the very obvious signs given out every year in the accounts and by asking KM to get his wallet out. We didn't want to be well run, we didn't want to be self-sufficient, we just wanted money now, we wanted the best players now, and we want someone else to pay for it.

In my own opinion, say KM never walked in the door, I think SUFC would be standing on its own two feet, much like KM now desires. We've have some debt and it'd be to a bank but it'd be much smaller than the £50m (or whatever it is these days, how much do smoke and mirrors cost?), BDTBL would probably be less developed but adequate for the level of football, we'd probably be a mid-level Championship club who occasionally punches above its weight, less ambition and less expectant about where we should be in the scheme of things. We wouldn't have £20k a week players and our academy would be less glamorous, but we'd still churn out youngsters because we're not half bad at that. Personally, I'd take that over what we have now. We had a year in the sun and it just wasn't worth it.

Could we stand on our own two feet now? No, clearly not. Our debt is un-managable at L1 level, our assets aren't our own, our gates and revenue are getting lower, our debt is getting higher. Why? Because KM gambled his company away and there's a tipping point (surely) that you get past a point and after that, it becomes a spiral. Too much debt, less to spend, debt increases, performances suffer, revenues fall, debt increases, less to spend etc. In my opinion once more, we passed that point a couple of years ago but have been banking on a return to a higher level.

Last year was a disaster and in no way am I going to aim that at DW or the squad. Another year in L1 is another year of a growing financial burden and another year of SUFC getting weaker, not stronger.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm off for a hot choccy now!

UTB!


Enjoy the hot "choccy". Everyone seems to refer to you as he and yet you have a female symbol as your avatar, and without making distinctions about males and females and football (I picked the only girl in the u10's team I managed until Sunday (much to my sons disgust) as the managers player of the year for her tremendous performances this year including tackling me when I took the team to Shirecliff!!) also I don't know many blokes who drink hot "Choccy".

Anyway the point of this retort is the general points you make about the situation we have arrived in. The point that I find generally of interest is that we have arrived in the situation due to poor debt management or too much debt to McCabe. You mention we took our eyes off the ball because we were laughing at the pigs.

The club is in turmoil due to the circumstance we are now in. I seem to think that the feeling is either that McCabe is stupid or trying to rip us off. He wasn't either he is a business man. He still is a business man. He tried to make the Blades run like a "proper business" words he used in an email to me when I asked him a question about the governance of the club. However various circumstances, a lot of them his fault, have conspired to make everything he tried to build unfold. Even the massive investment in the Academy may now be a waste of money as the Premier league clubs can come and cherry pick our best players for next to nothing without us even seeing them blooded like McGuire and Lowton. Had the housing / property / banking collapse not happened, something the experts did not envisage, then the Blades would have a pretty impressive property portfolio bringing in revenue for the club to invest in the team. But it went wrong. Had McCabe invested 3 0r 4 million more when in the Prem we would probably have stayed up and been able to consolidate, but his Business head of as little in for as much out philosophy meant we dropped out. His business head went after the £20mil and he got it but that only placated bank debt. So nothing was invested in the team. He took his own eye off the ball and got on with his own thing after a couple of disastrous manager appointments which ended up in the relegation to League 1. He did everything right at that point appointed a good manager, funded a decent team but unfortunately wasn't in Rhyl at the same time as Ched to make him see sense and couldn't stop Beattie from lunging at an Exeter player or medically improve Kev McDonald’s hamstring. Therefore we are where we are. Being a pragmatic person / Business man Kev McCabe has looked at the position we are in and has surmised that the best way to get further investment is to make the property (not a good investment at the moment) separate from the team. So smaller (not sheiks) investor’s may be interested. There really is nothing more to it than that. If he charges massively for the ground rent / lease then he will not get another investor and therefore cut his own throat. Leeds is high because it is to their council. The Blades investment would be commercially attractive if Kev McCabe wants an investor. The ultimate worry to me is the supposed Sheik investment in Leeds leaving a small investor with a cockney accent and big grey beard looking for a way back into footy.
UTB FTP
 
Jesus Christ. For the umpteenth time, I do not want to meet Batho or Winter. It's a very straightforward position. They will I am sure work hard - doing what I don't know but I am sure they are dedicated and professional.

I aint bothered about the stale bread or the handryers if that is what you are on about which maybe they can help with. I'm bothered about the slow and painful demise of our beloved football club. You clapperzs seem to deny this demise is taking place so it aint possible to involve you in a debate about it.

Catch out and categorisation alert.

Can you please tell me the number of times you have contacted the club with your concerns?
 



Can you please tell me the number of times you have contacted the club with your concerns?

Why? What good would it do to contact the club regarding football matters? What other response other than "everything is in the hands of the manager" would you expect to receive?

There are things that can be addressed (i.e. the state of the pies etc.) but I'm 100% with mic on this in that I don't give a shiny shite (if the pies are crap I won't eat them, if the bogs stink I'll have a piss before I go, if there are massive queues for the beer I'll do without). The only thing that bothers some of us (God forbid I almost said MOST which simply wouldn't do at all) is the state of the team. Writing to anyone about that would be a complete and utter waste of paper/ink/time.
 
No, because coming on here and listening to peoples views is interesting and passes a few minutes/hours as and when. Because having discussion and banter is better than not giving a fuck from one week to the next.

Why would anyone go on a forum where only a certain view is acceptable, why would anyone bother if people weren't posting at all?
To suggest we all pack it in and simply contact the club is laughable and would need more staff rather than the less we seem to be preparing for as a club.
 
No, because coming on here and listening to peoples views is interesting and passes a few minutes/hours as and when. Because having discussion and banter is better than not giving a fuck from one week to the next.

Why would anyone go on a forum where only a certain view is acceptable, why would anyone bother if people weren't posting at all?
To suggest we all pack it in and simply contact the club is laughable and would need more staff rather than the less we seem to be preparing for as a club.

Not disagreeing with your assertion that contacting the club on these issues would be a waste of time. I agree, it would resolve nothing as far as first team affairs are concerned.

A forum is of course a place for people to air/exchange views. Nothing wrong with any point of view be it good, bad or indifferent. My point is that by contacting the club, at least those in a position to have any influence know how you feel as a supporter. No they probably wont do much about it, but forever posting the same view point on here (not referring to your good self) will make not a blind bit of difference either.

Regular posters on here know where other regular posters stand on all key issues concerning the club. Vehemently arguing the toss over such issues with people whom are well known to be sitting on the other side of the fence achieves nothing more and takes up no more of anyone's time than contacting the club would do.

I don't see much of a difference between towing the same line on here day in day out and spending a bit of time writing/calling/speaking to the club. Just my opinion.
 
I don't see much of a difference between towing the same line on here day in day out and spending a bit of time writing/calling/speaking to the club. Just my opinion.

Fair point Paddy.

For what it's worth I have actually contacted the club directly 3 times in the 48 years I've been going.

Once regarding the lack of stripes on our shirts in the disasterous late 70's.
Another regarding my displeasure at the sale of Alan Kelly and how this would mean my defection from Blades Revival and quite recently regarding the continued employment of Lord Hoof and how this would mean my season ticket would not be renewed.

Only got one reply.
 
Fair point Paddy.

For what it's worth I have actually contacted the club directly 3 times in the 48 years I've been going.

Once regarding the lack of stripes on our shirts in the disasterous late 70's.
Another regarding my displeasure at the sale of Alan Kelly and how this would mean my defection from Blades Revival and quite recently regarding the continued employment of Lord Hoof and how this would mean my season ticket would not be renewed.

Only got one reply.

Probably down to the general tone of your letters if its owt like your replies to people on here.
spade a spade and all that.
And this from the snotty little kid you just want to tell to piss off.:p
 
Au contraire Mickerz.

I take great care to make my official communications polite and refined. My numerous letters to the FA regarding referees and fixtures are always most pleasant, if highly critical. Even my letters/e-mails to the fat MP from Barnsley were restrained (although the "gloating" one after he got sent down never got a reply).

I got a reply from Ian Porterfield promising that stripes would be returning (as they did) but received nothing on the actual football related matters, as I fully expected not to. People are busy actually running the club you see.
 
Why? What good would it do to contact the club regarding football matters? What other response other than "everything is in the hands of the manager" would you expect to receive?

There are things that can be addressed (i.e. the state of the pies etc.) but I'm 100% with mic on this in that I don't give a shiny shite (if the pies are crap I won't eat them, if the bogs stink I'll have a piss before I go, if there are massive queues for the beer I'll do without). The only thing that bothers some of us (God forbid I almost said MOST which simply wouldn't do at all) is the state of the team. Writing to anyone about that would be a complete and utter waste of paper/ink/time.

mics not talking about the state of the team though is he. he talkes about tradition andwho does what at the club.
He complains on here in his flouncy fashion (not spade as a spade) and wants the club to contact him because he's too up to do it himself. He thinks he's the only one with individualistic and original thoughts about the way forward for the club and what crap is happening behind the scenes. About 8 times I've contacted the club with issues and concerns and each time they comunicate with me fine.
 
I don't want to answer for mic at all Boo, he does more than enough of his own bidding BUT:

My point was that his concerns are about the financial running of the club and its effect on the team and results/performance. No-one at the club is going to justify themselves or their thinking in relation to this to him or change their course of action.
I know people are interested in making the whole experience OFF THE FIELD more pleasant and these things can and have been addressed at various forums and meetings with the Bathos of this world and such (and well done if that's your thing) but I will re-iterate this is of no consequence to me personally. I would happily queue overnight outside the South Stand, for a place in a pool of raw sewage, with no roof and the chance of a fist fight on the kop with marauding Newcastle supporters, for the privelege of watching Sheffield United play the sort of football that Badger, TC and Woody could serve up and the club hold a repectable position in the footballing world.
My matchday experience (which is the only one I have any desire for with SUFC) is what happens on the pitch and, I don't think, that will be changed by mic writing to Winter and asking about his job description.
 
There's a more fundamental issue here: if this message board is not for raising and discussing issues like this, what is it for?
 
There's a more fundamental issue here: if this message board is not for raising and discussing issues like this, what is it for?

There is a ways and means of doing such things without it looking like a picket line. I don't see many people from either side raising questions; just giving their opinions. Nobody seems interested in finding the truth, just interested in their own agenda
 
There is a ways and means of doing such things without it looking like a picket line. I don't see many people from either side raising questions; just giving their opinions. Nobody seems interested in finding the truth, just interested in their own agenda


Only one man knows the truth ............................
My opinion may be jaded BUT if it were in the intersts of the Blades he would have been all over the media like a rash !
The freehold mallarky was a dead cert .....property man throwing/wasting money at a football club ........ its a bit like equity release....alreight so long as there is plenty of equity !
 
If you are unhappy with people raising their opinions about Sheffield United on a Sheffield United message board...

Anyway, I don't accept your point. People are clearly interested in the truth. I certainly am, and if I have an agenda, it's that I don't want the club to be broke and in the lower divisions, and as this action looks like a drain on our resources and divesting our main asset I am concerned about it.

And Beighton is right - if this was a good thing, it would have been announced to the media.
 
I don't want to answer for mic at all Boo, he does more than enough of his own bidding BUT:

My point was that his concerns are about the financial running of the club and its effect on the team and results/performance. No-one at the club is going to justify themselves or their thinking in relation to this to him or change their course of action.
I know people are interested in making the whole experience OFF THE FIELD more pleasant and these things can and have been addressed at various forums and meetings with the Bathos of this world and such (and well done if that's your thing) but I will re-iterate this is of no consequence to me personally. I would happily queue overnight outside the South Stand, for a place in a pool of raw sewage, with no roof and the chance of a fist fight on the kop with marauding Newcastle supporters, for the privelege of watching Sheffield United play the sort of football that Badger, TC and Woody could serve up and the club hold a repectable position in the footballing world.
My matchday experience (which is the only one I have any desire for with SUFC) is what happens on the pitch and, I don't think, that will be changed by mic writing to Winter and asking about his job description.

Not got a problem with that but to suggest that MOST (that word) want a little 'OK yaah you deserved the win but weren’t the cucumber sandwiches nice today' polite give in to the opposition is off the mark. All clubs are autocratic with the occasional fans interference/pressure that brings change. 'Let's sign BT' romance, 'Warnock’s took us as far as he can'. (Not a Warnock fan by the way) so what happened? We paid a fortune to BT in wages and fines and we got Robson after Warnock.
Fans always want success on the pitch first and to suggest otherwise is wrong. The financial mismanagement is well documented. Mic makes out he sees it different from everyone else and from a higher plain. He won’t complain to the club and those who do are stupid because it gets nowhere? Great attitude.
 



If you are unhappy with people raising their opinions about Sheffield United on a Sheffield United message board...

Anyway, I don't accept your point. People are clearly interested in the truth. I certainly am, and if I have an agenda, it's that I don't want the club to be broke and in the lower divisions, and as this action looks like a drain on our resources and divesting our main asset I am concerned about it.

And Beighton is right - if this was a good thing, it would have been announced to the media.

You can raise what you like and say what you like for me on here. If you think your going to get the answer on here you are sadly mistaken. If people are that worried then get together and and write a letter to Batho or whoever and move it on.. Nobody seems willing to put in the hard yards but are happy to waste your own time.
 

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