Really Kevin Really?

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Tuns said:
We have one man who controls the lot, yes men on the board, a local media who wouldn't have a clue (or the resources) to get to the bottom of an issue like this (they'll just unquestioningly print/read the press release McCabe puts out telling everyone everything is ok) and no supporters group with any teeth or substance.

If the general apathy that has enveloped the club from top to bottom in recent years is anything to go by I expect no resistance or even any serious questions being asked at the right level. He may be doing everything in the interests of the club but I doubt we will ever know.

There's a few building blocks to go but losing the ground ownership would be an important one on the way to a ground share which in turn is a big step in preparing the way for a merger within the next 10 or 15 years.
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You talk about the general apathy of fans and how outraged you are but at the same time not doing anything about it apart from firing off comments here. If I was as outraged as you, Micaljo, Metal etc etc I would be out there making a noise or are you to apathetic? Washing your hair? Walking your dog? Take Brownie last year, whether you agree with him or not, absolutely outraged by DW appointment so he started a car park demo, at least he put action behind his words.
Don' criticize others for being apathetic when you are no better.
UTB
 



If this makes no difference because McCabe owns everything anyway, as some claim above, why bother?

I defy anyone who thinks this is a good idea to find one, just one, example of a British club prospering after separating the corporate ownership of club and ground. There isn't one. Wherever it's been done - Wrexham, Rotherham, Stockport, Cambridge City, Crystal Palace, Portsmouth to give but a few examples - it's been a financial disaster for the club in question, usually accompanied by relegation into the bargain.

Just a personal view, but I do not believe that someone who had the best interests of a football club at heart would do this. It is never beneficial.

For the first time, I fear for our future.
 
Neither do Manchester City.
 
Tuns said: ↑
We have one man who controls the lot, yes men on the board, a local media who wouldn't have a clue (or the resources) to get to the bottom of an issue like this (they'll just unquestioningly print/read the press release McCabe puts out telling everyone everything is ok) and no supporters group with any teeth or substance.

If the general apathy that has enveloped the club from top to bottom in recent years is anything to go by I expect no resistance or even any serious questions being asked at the right level. He may be doing everything in the interests of the club but I doubt we will ever know.

There's a few building blocks to go but losing the ground ownership would be an important one on the way to a ground share which in turn is a big step in preparing the way for a merger within the next 10 or 15 years.​
CopenhagenBlade said:
You talk about the general apathy of fans and how outraged you are but at the same time not doing anything about it apart from firing off comments here. If I was as outraged as you, Micaljo, Metal etc etc I would be out there making a noise or are you to apathetic? Washing your hair? Walking your dog? Take Brownie last year, whether you agree with him or not, absolutely outraged by DW appointment so he started a car park demo, at least he put action behind his words.
Don' criticize others for being apathetic when you are no better.
UTB
Click to expand...

Don't have a dog, don't have much hair and you are confusing a post by Tuns with something I said. Still if you want to make generalisations of anyone who dares to be critical of your hero McCabe feel free. Seems to me like another twist on the "it's all the fans fault" diatribe spewed out by the happy clappers when all other reasoning comes up with the answer they don't want to accept. If we want to carry on making generalisations what us so called "negative miserable bleeders" have been saying stands the test of time, from a club that lost Premiership status by one goal all the decent players have been sold all the decent youngster are sold we are now 3rd division with hardly a player of any value and now we have just lost ownership of our stadium and academy. The club is now in the 2nd lowest position of it's long history and some would argue in the worst state of it's history at least when in division 4 we owned the ground. All this achieved under McCabe's ownership.
Time to face a few facts we have been asset stripped.
 
metalblade said:
Tuns said: ↑
We have one man who controls the lot, yes men on the board, a local media who wouldn't have a clue (or the resources) to get to the bottom of an issue like this (they'll just unquestioningly print/read the press release McCabe puts out telling everyone everything is ok) and no supporters group with any teeth or substance.

If the general apathy that has enveloped the club from top to bottom in recent years is anything to go by I expect no resistance or even any serious questions being asked at the right level. He may be doing everything in the interests of the club but I doubt we will ever know.

There's a few building blocks to go but losing the ground ownership would be an important one on the way to a ground share which in turn is a big step in preparing the way for a merger within the next 10 or 15 years.​


Don't have a dog, don't have much hair and you are confusing a post by Tuns with something I said. Still if you want to make generalisations of anyone who dares to be critical of your hero McCabe feel free. Seems to me like another twist on the "it's all the fans fault" diatribe spewed out by the happy clappers when all other reasoning comes up with the answer they don't want to accept. If we want to carry on making generalisations what us so called "negative miserable bleeders" have been saying stands the test of time, from a club that lost Premiership status by one goal all the decent players have been sold all the decent youngster are sold we are now 3rd division with hardly a player of any value and now we have just lost ownership of our stadium and academy. The club is now in the 2nd lowest position of it's long history and some would argue in the worst state of it's history at least when in division 4 we owned the ground. All this achieved under McCabe's ownership.
Time to face a few facts we have been asset stripped.
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I am not saying that you can't be critical Metal, quite the opposite. I am saying that if you or whoever have such strong feelings and ironically enough in Tuns comments, calling everyone apathetical, then you should get together like Brownie did and start a protest group or car park demo. you would certainly have my respect if not my support.
 
Leeds don't own their ground. Neither do Chelsea.

Neither do Manchester City.

Leeds had to sell the ground to stay afloat. They divested because they had to. This appears to be a choice by the owner that is not needed.

Man City and Chelsea are somewhat different situations, but you named them, so well done you.

I also assume that, if this valuable piece of real estate is transferred away, the club will be debt free as a result and no more interest will accrue on the McCabe loans - is that right?
 
Revolution said:
I also assume that, if this valuable piece of real estate is transferred away, the club will be debt free as a result and no more interest will accrue on the McCabe loans - is that right?
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See here's a difference between myself and many people on here.... I'm unwilling to take assumptions and suppositions and state them as fact.
 
Caveblade said:
As a lay person it is difficult to unravel and understand accounting, but my view for what it is worth;
1. Mr McCabe is getting 10% interest on his loans to the club, that is a damm site more than you or can get on our savings. Not bad in reality.
2. SUFC built a hotel, the magic of accounting appears to have transferred ownership of said hotel to Mr McCabes company, how does that benefit the club?
3. All of a sudden we no longer own our own ground? How the hell has that happened? who benefits from that?
4. Millions of pounds have poured into the club during Mr McCabes tenure, I appreciate that there are running costs to any business but I don't see that money getting ploughed back into the club? And we have still managed to amass a paper debt of £50 million?

I have become as cynical about KM as I have about politicians, spin and bluster and very little truth. He is no different to McDonald and his cronies. Everyone seems to to forget that during McDonalds tenure McCabe was a director and as such a part of the problem, the only difference being he managed to avoid the dirt that was flying about and come out of it in control. A lot of the tactics employed by Green / McDonald such as sell your best players and then let slip that you have a gazzaesque signing up your sleeve seem very familiar, I give you "had a text from Roberto di Matteo".

McCabe has failed simple as, he has taken us back to the same starting point (or worse) only difference is a roof on the bogs and we are £50 million worse off!!!!

To finish, what kind of half baked business gets into the middle of its busiest trading period and has not planned or fixed a budget. Bullshit Mr McCabe why don't you get some testicular fortitude and start to tell the fans the truth instead of leaving DW to try and bluster his way through his lack of funding.
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Re: 2. SUFC built a hotel, the magic of accounting appears to have transferred ownership of said hotel to Mr McCabes company, how does that benefit the club?

The hotel was haemorraging money so McCabe took it on and took the hit.
 
Revolution said:
If this makes no difference because McCabe owns everything anyway, as some claim above, why bother?

I defy anyone who thinks this is a good idea to find one, just one, example of a British club prospering after separating the corporate ownership of club and ground. There isn't one. Wherever it's been done - Wrexham, Rotherham, Stockport, Cambridge City, Crystal Palace, Portsmouth to give but a few examples - it's been a financial disaster for the club in question, usually accompanied by relegation into the bargain.

Just a personal view, but I do not believe that someone who had the best interests of a football club at heart would do this. It is never beneficial.

For the first time, I fear for our future.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly sure Southampton did it right before it went tits up. And look at the state they're in now.

:)

UTB
 
metalblade said:
The way I see it McCabe has just acquired £50m worth of prime land on the edge of a major city centre for nothing. Maybe that was not the original intention but costly mistakes were made and failure in the world cup bid was the end of his interest in SUFC. By moving the only assets remaining he can sell the club at a knock down price and still make cash on top of all the player sales since the Premiership season, all the parachute payments, and all the Tevez cash. When he gets bored of collecting rent and feels the need to add to the hotel in the car park he will just raise the rent to a level the new owner of SUFC can't afford and we will be doing a Rotherham United while he makes a hefty profit on the site of the oldest stadium in the world. Even if we went into administration his money would be safe.
Yep he is the best we have ever had is our Kev.................... never mind eh lads it'll be reight.
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Nothing prime about that land whatsoever mate. Maybe a bulky goods/convenience goods retailer would look at it, but it's nowhere near prime mi owd lad.

Given the land is relatively low value, perhaps he is looking to safeguard it for the future. Who knows though.
 
Must have been the only hotel in a city short of hotel rooms that was making a loss, how convenient.
 



Rodley said:
Nothing prime about that land whatsoever mate. Maybe a bulky goods/convenience goods retailer would look at it, but it's nowhere near prime mi owd lad.

Given the land is relatively low value, perhaps he is looking to safeguard it for the future. Who knows though.
Click to expand...

Low value hahahaha............... I worked for two companies in the area not that long ago both made fortunes in selling land for development now we have apartments and student accommodation just about all the way from London Rd to Bramall Lane only the Sportsman survived.
 
Rodley said:
Re: 2. SUFC built a hotel, the magic of accounting appears to have transferred ownership of said hotel to Mr McCabes company, how does that benefit the club?

The hotel was haemorraging money so McCabe took it on and took the hit.
Click to expand...
The hotels 'losses' were the Copthorne companys' problem. They had to rent the hotel, built by McCabe, off us. Now he OWNS the hotel. How did that come about??? Oh yes, taking back loans as shares. Maybe now we know why we were allowed to fritter high wages on the likes on Monty? Thanks for that Kev, you strategically piss your money up on our behalf and take it back in the form of a football ground, we get to keep Monty in the football club.
 
Foxy said:
No idea what the plan is as yet, so can only speculate...

I see no-one's jumped on the assumption he could be working to protect the assets people are fearful of us losing.

e.g. - Interest so far has been fruitless for various reasons, so he has to become less picky. But separating the assets we least want putting at risk offers a safeguard.

No idea, but until the man intentionally does anything to screw SUFC over, then it's no different to me, just a business name on the deeds, they are both effectively owned by the same man already anyway.
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I agree. Reading the original letter, it sounds like this change might allow him to find somebody who wants to invest in a FOOTBALL club but not in a PROPERTY empire.

A potential investor could buy the "Football club" cheaply, pump a few million into the team, see us get promoted to the Premier and then sell at a vast profit. Worst case scenario, we don't get promoted, the investor loses their few million but it won't affect the club that badly because the investor doesn't own Bramall Lane or the training facilities.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
I agree. Reading the original letter, it sounds like this change might allow him to find somebody who wants to invest in a FOOTBALL club but not in a PROPERTY empire.

A potential investor could buy the "Football club" cheaply, pump a few million into the team, see us get promoted to the Premier and then sell at a vast profit. Worst case scenario, we don't get promoted, the investor loses their few million but it won't affect the club that badly because the investor doesn't own Bramall Lane or the training facilities.
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No the "investor" won't own them, because the previous investor/conman stole the real estate assets in July 2012 and has been charging rent ever since.

Leeds pay £2million a year for Elland Road, how can club ours afford anywhere near that?

The only future I can now see is that if someone came in and bought the FC and refused to pay almost £40,000 a week in rent to McCabe and didn't want to pay the £30million+ to buy the real estate back. We as fans would find ourselves living the nightmare that Rotherham fans are just waking up from.

It's feeling like because of this theft, within 10 years we will be saying goodbye to Bramall Lane and seeing this happen to BDTBL.

gallery_20_400x300.jpg

Nice one Kev, you truly are a twat.
 
CopenhagenBlade said:
You talk about the general apathy of fans and how outraged you are but at the same time not doing anything about it apart from firing off comments here. If I was as outraged as you, Micaljo, Metal etc etc I would be out there making a noise or are you to apathetic? Washing your hair? Walking your dog? Take Brownie last year, whether you agree with him or not, absolutely outraged by DW appointment so he started a car park demo, at least he put action behind his words.
Don' criticize others for being apathetic when you are no better.
UTB
Click to expand...

Hopefully a thread about an important decision in the future of a club we all care about won't be distracted by needless personal guff.

I pretty much gave the club 35 years of my life buggering family life and career along the way, as well being as active than most in the various campaigns.

Yes I joined the apathy a couple of years ago after the accumulation of the shit that has gone in football and at United and I won't be starting a campaign - which of course is absolutely irrelevant to the topic.

Criticising prof journalists or well paid club execs is absolutely valid whether you feel apathetic or not.

Despite giving up my ST for the first time I realised I couldn't quite stop caring which is why I give my views on here very occasionally.

I've said for years that apathy is United's biggest danger. Not only do crowds go down but you have no strong fans group cos the groundswell to do something is not there. It's to point that out even if you don't want to start a fans group.

We are at the behest of one man now. He may yet steer us clear or we could now be screwed.

Either way I hope the generally sharp minds on this forum can at least offer some possible answers cos I doubt they will come from anywhere else.
 
If that happened it would no doubt be the fault of the nasty new man and not the man who has single-handedly saved us.

Building the Enterprise centre was an excellent idea by KM - it lost money so he took it
Building the Hotel ditto
Chengdu ditto
Fradi ditto

To all who have watched this happen - why will it be any different THIS time? Why will this latest excellent idea work for us?

It's no big secret I haven't exactly got a huge amount of trust in the bloke, but I would be interested in what people who (remarkably afaic) still have.
 
Sothall_Blade said:
I agree. Reading the original letter, it sounds like this change might allow him to find somebody who wants to invest in a FOOTBALL club but not in a PROPERTY empire.

A potential investor could buy the "Football club" cheaply, pump a few million into the team, see us get promoted to the Premier and then sell at a vast profit. Worst case scenario, we don't get promoted, the investor loses their few million but it won't affect the club that badly because the investor doesn't own Bramall Lane or the training facilities.
Click to expand...
It really depends on Mcabes intentions:-

1) Will he ensure that the ground is to remain a football arena in perpetuity.
2) Will the rent be until his debts are paid off .
3) will the rent be seen as income for his family after debts are paid off
4 Will he sell off the land for developement - meaning no arena
5) Will someone buy the football side and move it elsewhere.
6) there are probably more.

If his rental provides him with a return of say 10%, our property people will tell us if this is a good return, then he may wish to stay as landlord after his debts are paid off.
 
Glass half full or half empty. If the restructuring makes it easier for someone to invest by the same token it also makes it easier to go into admin, with the majority of the assets and McCabe's shareholding in the PLC. We hear of cutbacks, wage bill reductions etc. Which is more likely a White Knight or a clean sweep of the mounting debt ?
 



super_pig said:
rather worryingly i reckon metal might be onto something :(
for all mccabes bluster we are now in a worse position than we were in the despised Macdonald/Green years
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too right.

anyone who thinks property developer mccabe wants to secure the future of sheffield united by taking ownership of a vast area of land (maybe not premium housing land but premium shopping centre land....) in the form of its traditional stadium needs to have a word with themselves
 
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