Promotion candidates hitting form at the right time.

[blade too long]

chesterfield beating a colchester side prone to a good hiding now and then proves nothing
colchester take some tonkings at home when they dont turn up

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

I think we need a much better manager than Warnock ever was. In all his time we stuttered along and all the years in the Championship could not be regarded as an incremental building project in any shape or form.

Somehow we got promoted to the Premiership and great credit to Warnock but there lies the lesson which could be learned. In actual fact a few individuals had us punching well above our weight in the Prem but the inevitable happened. We didn't have enough class, method or strength in depth in the squad.

We are in the third tier but the same principles still apply. Go up now and we will have the same struggle to keep our head above water. Being in League 1 was an opportunity to rebuild the club but we have wasted it as yet. Southampton and Swansea did not waste their time in League 1 and did not sneak up with rag bag squads, they built their future down here.

Hey, big enough managers able to do the mammoth job needed at Bramall Lane are few and far between. United though they had captured one in Clough and gave him what I call "the keys to the castle" to attract him. A very brave and big gesture by the new owner to take the club forward. The structure is perfect for the job at hand but the great shame is we've got the wrong manager. He has that quality to engender confidence and loyalty from his employers without ever achieving anything and the leopard will have to change his spots to fulfill his brief. There are few signs as yet.

So you don't think warnock built anything whilst at the club? That's just not true. I wasn't a fan of warnocks style, but no one can knock what he did for the club and the huge amount of improvements that were made during his tenure alongside Dooley and McCabe.

You say you want someone to build something like Swansea / Southampton. How long do you envisage that taking??? And if that is what you want, don't you think it would take an individual several years to achieve that. And during that time don't you think there would be some ups and downs?

Also you say we need a better manager than warnock ever was and that Clough is the wrong man, okay, who are your suggestions for a replacement?

How about we just let Clough get on with the job at hand and see what he can do with a bit of time. However, what's utter cringeworthy about some of our fans, and what you've already alluded to, is that if Clough does get us up, those fans will then be saying "oh, well he's not good enough to take us further he needs replacing" and if he got us up to the premier league the same fans would then say "oh well he isn't good enough to keep us there he needs replacing", rather than just getting behind him and enjoying the success.

What is it about football that makes some football fans hate their own manager more than anything else??? I'll never understand it.

 

[Woodwardfan]

So you don't think warnock built anything whilst at the club? That's just not true. I wasn't a fan of warnocks style, but no one can knock what he did for the club and the huge amount of improvements that were made during his tenure alongside Dooley and McCabe.

You say you want someone to build something like Swansea / Southampton. How long do you envisage that taking??? And if that is what you want, don't you think it would take an individual several years to achieve that. And during that time don't you think there would be some ups and downs?

Also you say we need a better manager than warnock ever was and that Clough is the wrong man, okay, who are your suggestions for a replacement?

How about we just let Clough get on with the job at hand and see what he can do with a bit of time. However, what's utter cringeworthy about some of our fans, and what you've already alluded to, is that if Clough does get us up, those fans will then be saying "oh, well he's not good enough to take us further he needs replacing" and if he got us up to the premier league the same fans would then say "oh well he isn't good enough to keep us there he needs replacing", rather than just getting behind him and enjoying the success.

What is it about football that makes some football fans hate their own manager more than anything else??? I'll never understand it.

I respect your right to have a point of view and do not regard it as "cringeworthy" in the least. Our club has about 17000 hard core fans and the numbers of different opinions amongst them will be around 17000 I guess.

I suppose it's about expectations and the Board have set the bar very high indeed. I would not say Clough is amongst the worst of our past few managers, in fact he's one of the better ones. "Safe pair of hands", "cultural fit", "honest and open" are all terms which spring to mind. As regards a leader to take us up two levels within the next 3 years or so and to keep us there. well that's a different kettle of fish.

Talking of fish, I dare say the new S6 owners will be looking around for a new manager to realise their dreams for them. I worry that they might well make a much better choice than we did and there is a chance they might.

You talk about choices, well that is always subjective as McCabe has found to his cost so many times. We need an Eddie Howe type achiever. How about Mike Warburton with David Weir as his assistant? They are available and have all the optimism and energy of blokes intent on going places. Paul Cook, Gary Rowett (though we're probably too late unless Brum unravel again), someone from the same stable as the Middlesbrough manager, and so on. Blokes who are hungry for success and expect to achieve it. I hope the other lot don't choose any of those, or Paul Lambert for that matter.

 

[raul]

On the Eddie Howe thing, whilst fully agreeing with everyone that he's getting results and saying the right things you have to take into context the monies he's been given to achieve this. Looking at wage bill/turnover, they're not so much as flicking double v's at FFP, as turning it over and dry humping it. That said, plenty have spent more (Hi Robbo) and failed.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Speaking of the Chumpionship, Brentford are playing high tempo attacking football, anyone know who their coach is ?

 

[super_pig]

That's just about every scenario going, and we still haven't had a promotion since we left the premier league. And out of all the above and warnock, the only time we've had any success is when we've given a manager TIME.

and here's me thinking the only time we've had any success was when we had a decent manager.. in the 40 odd years of supporting the club i can think of four.. yes four.. harris.. porterfield.. bassett.. warnock. end.

 

[Dkc]

Since warnock left we've gone with a manager who had a promotion and cup finals on his CV - didn't work. We went with a manager who had no promotions - didn't work. We went with a rookie manager - didn't work. We went with a 'blade' who had a promotion on his CV and he was a disaster that gave up on the club and got us relegated. We went with another manager with several promotions on his CV - he failed. We went with another rookie manager - he lasted about 10 weeks.

That's just about every scenario going, and we still haven't had a promotion since we left the premier league.

The solution's obvious then. We get a foreign manager. Bert Van Marwijk is available, as is Martin Jol. Or how about Alex Sabella, foreign with lashings of Bladey Bladeness?

 

[Woodwardfan]

On the Eddie Howe thing, whilst fully agreeing with everyone that he's getting results and saying the right things you have to take into context the monies he's been given to achieve this. Looking at wage bill/turnover, they're not so much as flicking double v's at FFP, as turning it over and dry humping it. That said, plenty have spent more (Hi Robbo) and failed.

Dont you think Clough has spent just as much as Howe did when he was in League 1? I'd say more in fact.

 

[Woodwardfan]

and here's me thinking the only time we've had any success was when we had a decent manager.. in the 40 odd years of supporting the club i can think of four.. yes four.. harris.. porterfield.. bassett.. warnock. end.

Good post but I'd say two.

 

[BushBlade]

Dont you think Clough has spent just as much as Howe did when he was in League 1? I'd say more in fact.

Apparently they would have been charged under SCMP had they not changed the rules to allow benefactor contributions.

Whether or not they spent more than us or not is fairly irrelevant in the short term. Generally, clubs that spend the most are the most successful but that is a long term average and is most applicable to stable clubs, i.e. if you spend more than other clubs over a few seasons and spend it correctly you will ultimately end up doing better than them

In the short term to take advantage of big spending, you have to blow the opposition out of the water.

We spent a reasonable amount in the summer but not a spectacular net sum. The big spending only really happened in the JTW and after. It really shouldn't be such a shock that it hasn't yet had the impact we hoped for. Disappointing but not surprising.

If Clough gets another year and we're still inconsistent and pissing about with the playoffs then I'll agree with you.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

and here's me thinking the only time we've had any success was when we had a decent manager.. in the 40 odd years of supporting the club i can think of four.. yes four.. harris.. porterfield.. bassett.. warnock. end.

And the exact point of my post was to highlight that Warnock took a lot of time to show he was a decent manager given that before he got us promoted there were a fair few years of crap.

And Clough has demonstrated he is/could be a decent manager. For fuck sake he's only a center half and James Wallace away from having a very good team. He knows that and he'll fix that in the summer.

And people will say - well he should have sorted that out already - well sometimes that happens in football, your targets don't work out/players get injured there are fall outs. Remember Barry hayles, Danny Cullip and Horesfield?? Yet Warnock still got success. And I would bet those other managers you listed had similar slip ups in recruitment during their times. And in terms of tinkering with the team, then Dave Bassett loved a chop and change and squad rotation.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

I respect your right to have a point of view and do not regard it as "cringeworthy" in the least. Our club has about 17000 hard core fans and the numbers of different opinions amongst them will be around 17000 I guess.

I suppose it's about expectations and the Board have set the bar very high indeed. I would not say Clough is amongst the worst of our past few managers, in fact he's one of the better ones. "Safe pair of hands", "cultural fit", "honest and open" are all terms which spring to mind. As regards a leader to take us up two levels within the next 3 years or so and to keep us there. well that's a different kettle of fish.

Talking of fish, I dare say the new S6 owners will be looking around for a new manager to realise their dreams for them. I worry that they might well make a much better choice than we did and there is a chance they might.

You talk about choices, well that is always subjective as McCabe has found to his cost so many times. We need an Eddie Howe type achiever. How about Mike Warburton with David Weir as his assistant? They are available and have all the optimism and energy of blokes intent on going places. Paul Cook, Gary Rowett (though we're probably too late unless Brum unravel again), someone from the same stable as the Middlesbrough manager, and so on. Blokes who are hungry for success and expect to achieve it. I hope the other lot don't choose any of those, or Paul Lambert for that matter.

The debate is essentially about giving a manager time. What happens when we get a new manager and they don't get instant success in their first season (let alone a couple of cup semi finals and play off qualification)...will you then be calling for a new manager again?

I have huge expectations for the club, I do expect us to be in the top 6 of the championship or in the top flight - where we have spent most of our history. However I realize that will take time given our current predicament. If we sack Clough, I'd want the next manager to be given time provided we were qualifying for play offs at the very least. I wouldn't want him to be sacked after just one full season in charge.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

If Clough had more than one Northern Premier League promotion to his name in his 17 years in management then I might make more allowance for what I have seen with my own eyes these past 17 months. Those two previous spells in management were clearly two very slow building projects and Clough seems to be one of those builders who lays about five bricks a day. His new building is still way below ground after 17 months but you see good solid foundations and I'm pleased for you. I still see a big pile of rubble.

Lets get Paul Jewell , Dean Saunders in , or one of the managers or one from the list Borbokisfreekick mentioned . The bottom line is we cannot go on sacking managers as it sends us back to square 1 or even further backwards.

Ok we have not set the world alight this season , and had some dire performances , but we have to give Clough time . We are in a promotion battle , not relegation . He knows whats required , expectations , so lets give him time to deliver.

There is no one out there , who could give us 100% success , so why rock the boat IMO.

In saying that i think we will get turned over tomorrow , but still win promotion.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

Apparently they would have been charged under SCMP had they not changed the rules to allow benefactor contributions.

Whether or not they spent more than us or not is fairly irrelevant in the short term. Generally, clubs that spend the most are the most successful but that is a long term average and is most applicable to stable clubs, i.e. if you spend more than other clubs over a few seasons and spend it correctly you will ultimately end up doing better than them

In the short term to take advantage of big spending, you have to blow the opposition out of the water.

We spent a reasonable amount in the summer but not a spectacular net sum. The big spending only really happened in the JTW and after. It really shouldn't be such a shock that it hasn't yet had the impact we hoped for. Disappointing but not surprising.

If Clough gets another year and we're still inconsistent and pissing about with the playoffs then I'll agree with you.

The debate is essentially about giving a manager time. What happens when we get a new manager and they don't get instant success in their first season (let alone a couple of cup semi finals and play off qualification)...will you then be calling for a new manager again?

I have huge expectations for the club, I do expect us to be in the top 6 of the championship or in the top flight - where we have spent most of our history. However I realize that will take time given our current predicament. If we sack Clough, I'd want the next manager to be given time provided we were qualifying for play offs at the very least. I wouldn't want him to be sacked after just one full season in charge.

Again I don't find your views "cringeworthy", not in the least, hope you take that point.

I'm all for giving a manager time if you have confidence in him deserving that time. If you give the wrong man time it costs you time and money. The decision about Clough is whether the Board have seen enough to trust him to spend another big chunk of their money for next season, whether we go up or stay down. If they give him the time and not the money then they are sitting on the fence and ducking the issue. Out of interest would you give him another big budget on his record of signing new players?

Only they can make the judgement because it's their business. As a fan I dread Clough being given another year's budget and signing another load of mediocrity. Was it you who said he can learn from his mistakes, FFS he's been a manager for 17 years. I dread it because I know in my heart of hearts he is not capable of doing the job, otherwise he would have shown much more than he has this season which has been a shambles. We are in fact fortunate to be still in with a shout of promotion and if we go up we will have to effectively sign half a team.

BTW you now call this a debate. In your earlier posts I would call your line an assault not a debate, take the point?

 

[Woodwardfan]

The debate is essentially about giving a manager time. What happens when we get a new manager and they don't get instant success in their first season (let alone a couple of cup semi finals and play off qualification)...will you then be calling for a new manager again?

I have huge expectations for the club, I do expect us to be in the top 6 of the championship or in the top flight - where we have spent most of our history. However I realize that will take time given our current predicament. If we sack Clough, I'd want the next manager to be given time provided we were qualifying for play offs at the very least. I wouldn't want him to be sacked after just one full season in charge.

Have we spent "most of our history" in the top 6 of the 2nd tier or the top division? It certainly doesn't feel like it at all. Silent Blade, what are the stats?

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

Have we spent "most of our history" in the top 6 of the 2nd tier or the top division? It certainly doesn't feel like it at all. Silent Blade, what are the stats?

Yeah, if you take our average league position out of all of our seasons then it comes out at about 24th place overall, I'll take a closer look and get the exact for you. Since 1990 we've only finished below 8th in the second tier I think 8 times, and half of those have been this stint in this awful division!

Again I don't find your views "cringeworthy", not in the least, hope you take that point.

I'm all for giving a manager time if you have confidence in him deserving that time. If you give the wrong man time it costs you time and money. The decision about Clough is whether the Board have seen enough to trust him to spend another big chunk of their money for next season, whether we go up or stay down. If they give him the time and not the money then they are sitting on the fence and ducking the issue. Out of interest would you give him another big budget on his record of signing new players?

Only they can make the judgement because it's their business. As a fan I dread Clough being given another year's budget and signing another load of mediocrity. Was it you who said he can learn from his mistakes, FFS he's been a manager for 17 years. I dread it because I know in my heart of hearts he is not capable of doing the job, otherwise he would have shown much more than he has this season which has been a shambles. We are in fact fortunate to be still in with a shout of promotion and if we go up we will have to effectively sign half a team.

BTW you now call this a debate. In your earlier posts I would call your line an assault not a debate, take the point?

I do take your point, and apologies if it came across as an assault, I would call it firm debate

I don't think his singing of players has been that bad, he's signed some decent players: scougs, Brayford, Harris, freeman, coutts (he will come good), basham, Wallace (if fit), Davies, done, I quite like mcnulty, holt has shown some promise but he's just on loan, tried to get Ogrady in but it didn't work. There's some good talent there. He may have signed a few duds in higdon, mceverley, butler - but as stated in previous posts, which manager doesn't have a few failings in recruitment - Sir Alex had his fair share!

I think those signings would indicate he does have a good eye for a player. Problem is that he probably brought in too many and obviously hasn't found the balance. given time I personally think he'll iron that out.

for once it would just be nice if our fans would get behind a manager.

 

[Silent Blade]

Have we spent "most of our history" in the top 6 of the 2nd tier or the top division? It certainly doesn't feel like it at all. Silent Blade, what are the stats?

Dont know. Revolution is usually good with these kind of stats. Now you mention "top 6"... I was born in 1962 (we drew 1-1 at Man City on the day I was born) and we finished in 5th position of the top division. 1969-70 season was when I started becoming a Lane regular and we finished in 6th place of the 2nd tier. In 1974-75 we finished 6th in the league which was my best season as a Blade fan

 

[Woodwardfan]

Dont know. Revolution is usually good with these kind of stats. Now you mention "top 6"... I was born in 1962 (we drew 1-1 at Man City on the day I was born) and we finished in 5th position of the top division. 1969-70 season was when I started becoming a Lane regular and we finished in 6th place of the 2nd tier. In 1974-75 we finished 6th in the league which was my best season as a Blade fan

6th it is then v Preston I suspect

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

Dont know. Revolution is usually good with these kind of stats. Now you mention "top 6"... I was born in 1962 (we drew 1-1 at Man City on the day I was born) and we finished in 5th position of the top division. 1969-70 season was when I started becoming a Lane regular and we finished in 6th place of the 2nd tier. In 1974-75 we finished 6th in the league which was my best season as a Blade fan

See the separate thread I started. Our average position is 24th - so top 6 in second tier.

Best finish I've ever seen was 9th in the top flight in 1992.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

I don't think his singing of players has been that bad,

I think Wallace is one of a series of gambles on good players trying to come back from serious injury - Coutts and Davies are other examples.In a sense it can pay off sometimes but its a gamble on whether they will be as good as they were before injury or whether they will recover at all. Some will, some won't - either way there is no certainty.The biggest weakness in his signings is I think, in overall squad balance.

Best period for me as a blade was 1959 - 1962 - FA cup semi-final, 2 QF's, League Cup QF, a promotion and 5th in first division and Derek Pace - best centre forward since the war

 

[Bladebri]

Everybody's best period will be the 2015 playoff final win.

 

[Silent Blade]

Derek Pace - best centre forward since the war

Better than Mick Jones?

 

[Cyprus Blade]

Better than Mick Jones?

I liked Jones, but for me Doc edged it. In saying that John Harris was dead right when he said that selling Jones "would be the biggest mistake the club had ever made".

Doc Pace - 1957 - 1965 scoring 140 goals in 253 League matches. (175 goals in 302 league and cup games). Could score with either foot and excelled at heading. Top scorer from 1957 - 1964. Previously 40 goals in 98 league games for Villa (he wasn't centre forward there either).

Mick Jones - 1962 - 67 scoring 63 goals in 149 League matches.Top scorer for 3 seasons.Subsequently 77 goals in 219 league games for Leeds.

 

[Bladesince59]

We played for 0 - 0 against Palace from the kick off. We were almost as bad as we were against Burnley with that tosser Beattie as our star forward.

 

[Silent Blade]

I liked Jones, but for me Doc edged it. In saying that John Harris was dead right when he said that selling Jones "would be the biggest mistake the club had ever made".

Doc Pace - 1957 - 1965 scoring 140 goals in 253 League matches. (175 goals in 302 league and cup games). Could score with either foot and excelled at heading. Top scorer from 1957 - 1964. Previously 40 goals in 98 league games for Villa (he wasn't centre forward there either).

Mick Jones - 1962 - 67 scoring 63 goals in 149 League matches.Top scorer for 3 seasons.Subsequently 77 goals in 219 league games for Leeds.

Pace scored a hat trick for Villa against us but when he played for us against Villa, he scored a hat trick again!

 

[WhiteHawk]

I wouldn't say any of us were in form TBH.

The last 5 games for each of the teams in contention (Preston, MK, Swindon, Blades, Chesterfield, so 25 matches) has seen a grand total of 13 victories. (2 for Preston, 4 for MK, 2 for Swindon, 2 for Blades & 3 for Chesterfield). Add Rochdale in there if you want and you've got 14 wins from 30 games.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I wouldn't say any of us were in form TBH.

The last 5 games for each of the teams in contention (Preston, MK, Swindon, Blades, Chesterfield, so 25 matches) has seen a grand total of 13 victories. (2 for Preston, 4 for MK, 2 for Swindon, 2 for Blades & 3 for Chesterfield). Add Rochdale in there if you want and you've got 14 wins from 30 games.

Hitting form going into the playoffs is a bit misleading . At the end of the season its start again with the 4 teams all being level. Whether you have been good , bad or indifferent , it will not count or matter . It will be what any of the teams do over 2 legs and the final .

Physiologically no team will want to play the blades .

UTB

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Having sat down with a decent piggy fan last week we ended up discussing the play Offs and the game they played against Hartlepool at Cardiff.

They were shit all that season and were shit in the play off game and although I think they won 4-2 on the day were extremely fortunate.

Teams going in on form do not always succeed - we know to our cost.

With all due respect to all the others teams, we are the biggest team in the PO, and as such we will be given that respect. No team will want us in the semi or final and they will shit their pants at the prospect.

UTB

 

[Kenilworth]

With all due respect to all the others teams, we are the biggest team in the PO, and as such we will be given that respect. No team will want us in the semi or final and they will shit their pants at the prospect.

Erm. No they won't!

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Erm. No they won't!

yes they will, but that's why it's a forum. We beg to differ.

UTB