Prince ?

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Seems it's true.

Unacceptable in my view. This is the UK not Saudi.

We wouldn't accept sexism from a British owner, so why should we from someone from elsewhere just because their country has appalling attitudes to women.

If this was instigated by people at the club, rather than demands from the Prince's people, then shame on them too.

Completely unacceptable that our club should bow to such antiquated attitudes.
 
It's more complicated then it seems I think. It's obviously wrong but he's a member of the Saudi royal family and culturally it is not acceptable in their country. If it got out he'd allowed it he'd have all sorts of problems.

I'm not condoning the archaic ideal but it's not a simple case of him refusing to be served because he's a tosser. I'm not sure why anybody who knows anything about his way of life finds this shocking.
 
Davalon said:
Seems it's true.

Unacceptable in my view. This is the UK not Saudi.

We wouldn't accept sexism from a British owner, so why should we from someone from elsewhere just because their country has appalling attitudes to women.

If this was instigated by people at the club, rather than demands from the Prince's people, then shame on them too.

Completely unacceptable that our club should bow to such antiquated attitudes.
Click to expand...

It might be that KM has more guile than we'd previously thought. :)
 
Davalon said:
This is the UK not Saudi.
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And? Should a country as welcoming and as inclusive as the UK be all of a sudden up in arms because a man from a different country wants to uphold his beliefs? Really?
 
Roygbiv said:
It's more complicated then it seems I think. It's obviously wrong but he's a member of the Saudi royal family and culturally it is not acceptable in their country. If it got out he'd allowed it he'd have all sorts of problems.

I'm not condoning the archaic ideal but it's not a simple case of him refusing to be served because he's a tosser. I'm not sure why anybody who knows anything about his way of life finds this shocking.
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It might be wrong here but it’s not where he’s from. It’s the norm. Why should someone here for a weekend change his life for some poor girls fuckin feelings?
 
it is disgraceful that she got treated that way. but we got to remember where hes from. women have only got a driving license for the last 10 months. was only in the last 2 yrs since they were allowed into sporting stadiums
 
Do people forget that it was KMc who invited the prince on board?

If Clough had not wasted all the princes £s and we had got back up in the Princes first season I reckon that neither of our 2 owners would still be at the club by now....
 
I wonder what would happen if the prince gets the club and we get female official? Would he, could he refuse to have them?
 
Whilst I abhor the Stone age laws prevelant in Saudi Arabia they are their laws in their country.
That doesn't mean we in this country should allow that type of attitude and behaviour in our country.
Prince should have had that made abundantly clear and sat in a area where no service was offered and allowed the female employees to do their jobs under UK law. If that was unacceptable to him then he should find something to invest in where the laws of the country are Akin to his.
I am disgusted at what seems to have been allowed to happen in this instance.
 
Ainsley Harriott said:
And? Should a country as welcoming and as inclusive as the UK be all of a sudden up in arms because a man from a different country wants to uphold his beliefs? Really?
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Would they bend to our culture over there?

I've stayed away from much of the ownership debate but our club bending to sexist antiquated beliefs for the benefit of an owner is out of order imho.

If he can't respect our culture then he should stick to owning clubs in Muslim countries.
 
SteveBlade said:
Same as Man City and PSG were finished when they were taken over?

Our lad doesn't have the same financial power, clearly, but they're all equally sexist and homophobic.
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Their owners come from Abu Dhabi and Qatar respectively. You can go to any decent hotel in either country and get alcohol. You can’t do that in Saudi Arabia, it’s very hardline.

Roygbiv said:
It's more complicated then it seems I think. It's obviously wrong but he's a member of the Saudi royal family and culturally it is not acceptable in their country. If it got out he'd allowed it he'd have all sorts of problems.
Click to expand...

I cannot imagine there would be any kind of consequence to him being around alcohol in a Western country. In fact, although it’s not technically available in Saudi Arabia, he and his family will have easy access to it via various channels, as do all foreign diplomatic missions via diplomatic bags. The UK’s definition of a diplomatic bag includes 20’ shipping container loads of alcohol. I’ve seen them, I’ve drunk their contents, or at least some of them :)
 
John Snow said:
Whilst I abhor the Stone age laws prevelant in Saudi Arabia they are their laws in their country.
That doesn't mean we in this country should allow that type of attitude and behaviour in our country.
Prince should have had that made abundantly clear and sat in a area where no service was offered and allowed the female employees to do their jobs under UK law. If that was unacceptable to him then he should find something to invest in where the laws of the country are Akin to his.
I am disgusted at what seems to have been allowed to happen in this instance.
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Totally agree John, if they get our club we will inviting ridicule , we've got to hope the mcabes keep the club.
 

A few points:

1. Isn't it the consumption of alcohol that is haram, not being in the presence of it?
2. HRH lives in the USA doesn't he?
3. Do religious beliefs trump the Equality Act 2010?
4. He's sat in the Director's Box before, is that male only service & no booze?
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
A few points:

1. Isn't it the consumption of alcohol that is haram, not being in the presence of it?
2. HRH lives in the USA doesn't he?
3. Do religious beliefs trump the Equality Act 2010?
4. He's sat in the Director's Box before, is that male only service & no booze?
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Number 3. You try picking on a Muslim.
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
A few points:

1. Isn't it the consumption of alcohol that is haram, not being in the presence of it?
2. HRH lives in the USA doesn't he?
3. Do religious beliefs trump the Equality Act 2010?
4. He's sat in the Director's Box before, is that male only service & no booze?
Click to expand...

He’s been to Wembley in an Executive Box. What did they do about female staff?

It seems amazing this has only become an issue now after several years of having a Saudi co-owner.
 
Trigger Blade said:
Their owners come from Abu Dhabi and Qatar respectively. You can go to any decent hotel in either country and get alcohol. You can’t do that in Saudi Arabia, it’s very hardline.



I cannot imagine there would be any kind of consequence to him being around alcohol in a Western country. In fact, although it’s not technically available in Saudi Arabia, he and his family will have easy access to it via various channels, as do all foreign diplomatic missions via diplomatic bags. The UK’s definition of a diplomatic bag includes 20’ shipping container loads of alcohol. I’ve seen them, I’ve drunk their contents, or at least some of them :)
Click to expand...

Isn't the issue being served by a woman though? I don't think the alcohol is the issue , it's the gender of the person serving it.
 
Roygbiv said:
It's more complicated then it seems I think. It's obviously wrong but he's a member of the Saudi royal family and culturally it is not acceptable in their country. If it got out he'd allowed it he'd have all sorts of problems.

I'm not condoning the archaic ideal but it's not a simple case of him refusing to be served because he's a tosser. I'm not sure why anybody who knows anything about his way of life finds this shocking.
Click to expand...

Roy, I hold you in the highest esteem mate, you provide an invaluable service and for that we're each and every one of us happy you're here..........but, on this particular point I think your post is riddled with holes, so much so that it reads like you're an apologist for shit attitudes.

As I'm sure you'll accept, should this prove to be incorrect, or the act of an employee who crossed a line without the Prince's agreement, then that's another matter altogether. However, if this happened and the Prince was the person who instigated this, then the line that we must be understanding of the various cultures that exist throughout this planet is one I fail to grasp. Is it ok to validate poor or unpleasant behaviour just because it emanates from a country we're not familiar with? I accept that there's a basic standard of behaviour and civility that's recognised globally. I detest bullfighting, so with that in mind, if I should be in Spain I can either choose to put space between myself and the arena in which this takes place, or I can choose not to visit Spain in the first place. However, if the cultural attitudes of a certain country extends to the continuation of archaic and retrogressive attitudes that removes the right of someone to grow and flourish as a human being, then I feel justified in objecting to such attitudes.

I'm well aware that not a single country in the world is perfect, but some are less offensive than others. So we all choose to draw lines in the sand that expresses our dislike of another country that upholds those qualities we find offensive. Sometimes there are carefully nuanced areas that require vigorous intellectual discussion, and at least this enables a dialogue to begin that may, ultimately, erode the behaviour that is clearly offensive or even evil.

You say you're surprised that anyone who understands his way of life should be shocked by this action. Why Roy? Does it follow that the understanding of a culture results in tolerance of shitty behaviour? I have a reasonable understanding of the root causes of fascism, but to suggest I should find ways to tolerate, even validate, such a vile and objectionable mindset would be to miss the point.

I saw elsewhere that a poster was puzzled that it's only now that this was raised as the Prince had attended games at various stadiums throughout the UK. Again, this is both puzzling and worrying. If this has only just become made aware then of course it's right to discuss this. If I'd have known about this before then I would have written before.

Back to this story and what's been alleged, if this story has legs and is based on fact, then we have a problem. It's not enough to argue that it's down to cultural differences Roy, this goes to the very heart of what our society is based on. Perhaps the Suffragettes fought the good fight only to be told that cultural differences over-ride the belief that women, at least in the UK, are held to the same standards as their male counterparts (I know, there are still many examples where women are far from equal in this country, but at least the fight continues and isn't regarded as something of minority interest). As I say, if this is true then all of us should oppose it.
 
SteveBlade said:
I get white middle aged blokes in my place who patronise the girls I work with, and come over to me instead. I always act clueless and bring the girl they've just mugged off over to help me out.

Twattish behaviour, but we all know how women are viewed where he's from.
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Oh come on now. My cat is very discerning and will only eat certain foods, all I asked the lass was what she fed her pussy. It was a complete misunderstanding and I think you overreacted by calling the police.

Oh and one more thing, middle aged? Cheeky twat....... .
 
I heard it wasn't because he wouldn't be served by a girl but because he'll only kidney punch male servants.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Roy, I hold you in the highest esteem mate, you provide an invaluable service and for that we're each and every one of us happy you'r I'me here..........but, on this particular point I think your post is riddled with holes, so much so that it reads like you're an apologist for shit attitudes.

As I'm sure you'll accept, should this prove to be incorrect, or the act of an employee who crossed a line without the Prince's agreement, then that's another matter altogether. However, if this happened and the Prince was the person who instigated this, then the line that we must be understanding of the various cultures that exist throughout this planet is one I fail to grasp. Is it ok to validate poor or unpleasant behaviour just because it emanates from a country we're not familiar with? I accept that there's a basic standard of behaviour and civility that's recognised globally. I detest bullfighting, so with that in mind, if I should be in Spain I can either choose to put space between myself and the arena in which this takes place, or I can choose not to visit Spain in the first place. However, if the cultural attitudes of a certain country extends to the continuation of archaic and retrogressive attitudes that removes the right of someone to grow and flourish as a human being, then I feel justified in objecting to such attitudes.

I'm well aware that not a single country in the world is perfect, but some are less offensive than others. So we all choose to draw lines in the sand that expresses our dislike of another country that upholds those qualities we find offensive. Sometimes there are carefully nuanced areas that require vigorous intellectual discussion, and at least this enables a dialogue to begin that may, ultimately, erode the behaviour that is clearly offensive or even evil.

You say you're surprised that anyone who understands his way of life should be shocked by this action. Why Roy? Does it follow that the understanding of a culture results in tolerance of shitty behaviour? I have a reasonable understanding of the root causes of fascism, but to suggest I should find ways to tolerate, even validate, such a vile and objectionable mindset would be to miss the point.

I saw elsewhere that a poster was puzzled that it's only now that this was raised as the Prince had attended games at various stadiums throughout the UK. Again, this is both puzzling and worrying. If this has only just become made aware then of course it's right to discuss this. If I'd have known about this before then I would have written before.

Back to this story and what's been alleged, if this story has legs and is based on fact, then we have a problem. It's not enough to argue that it's down to cultural differences Roy, this goes to the very heart of what our society is based on. Perhaps the Suffragettes fought the good fight only to be told that cultural differences over-ride the belief that women, at least in the UK, are held to the same standards as their male counterparts (I know, there are still many examples where women are far from equal in this country, but at least the fight continues and isn't regarded as something of minority interest). As I say, if this is true then all of us should oppose it.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not condoning the behaviour, I was simply pointing out that it is more complex than is being painted. Of course I think it should be opposed but my confusion is why people think a Saudi Prince wouldn't act in this way. I think it's a ridiculous and shameful ideal but I'm not surprised that this has happened.

I am certainly not saying it should be challenged, quite the opposite, I just think it goes deeper than a man simply refusing to be served by a woman. You're (rightly) challenging an entire culture and in this particular instance the only way to stop this behaviour is by getting The Prince out of the club. He certainly won't be adapting.
 

Roygbiv said:
I'm certainly not condoning the behaviour, I was simply pointing out that it is more complex than is being painted. Of course I think it should be opposed but my confusion is why people think a Saudi Prince wouldn't act in this way. I think it's a ridiculous and shameful ideal but I'm not surprised that this has happened.

I am certainly not saying it should be challenged, quite the opposite, I just think it goes deeper than a man simply refusing to be served by a woman. You're (rightly) challenging an entire culture and in this particular instance the only way to stop this behaviour is by getting The Prince out of the club. He certainly won't be adapting.
Click to expand...

Roy, excellent reply mate. There was never any intent to offend, hope you appreciate that.

As you say, to remove the Prince is the only way we'll see the back of him.
 
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