Please don't say this phrase...

[Cerberus Blade]

"If someone had offered you (X) at the start of the season, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

We hear it a lot. And we heard it a lot last night, on radio, in the pub, on the forums, etc. Variations on...

"If someone had said we'd have took 4 points out of 6 against them at the start of season, and been in the top 6/top half of the table, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

First of all - it's a totally hypothetical, nonsensical thing to come out with. Because it's a fantasy situation, it couldn't happen. It's an impossibility. There is no-one, not anyone, on earth who goes around offering people outcomes to situations that haven't happened. If I'm wrong about that, do let me know, because I'd love to meet this person, or people, and let them fill in a lottery ticket for me.

Secondly - apart from the fact it's a total fantasy situation - it's also fundamentally flawed in its logic. Because it compares two totally different situations, two different sets of circumstances and two different points in time - and treats them as if they are the same situation, which they are not. The team has evolved since the start of the season - it's not exactly the same players doing the same things. And we have a different level of understanding of the challenges of Championship football now to what we had then. A totally different level of experience.

But most of all the reason why I dislike this stupid phrase is because it's "losers speak". It is usually trotted out when people are trying to hide their disappointment, by reflecting on a different period in time and taking some kind of comfort from that.

There's no consolation for me in thinking like that. We shouldn't be looking backwards at where we've come from, only looking forwards to where we are going and what we need to do to ensure we get there.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

"If someone had offered you (X) at the start of the season, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

We hear it a lot. And we heard it a lot last night, on radio, in the pub, on the forums, etc. Variations on...

"If someone had said we'd have took 4 points out of 6 against them at the start of season, and been in the top 6/top half of the table, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

First of all - it's a totally hypothetical, nonsensical thing to come out with. Because it's a fantasy situation, it couldn't happen. It's an impossibility. There is no-one, not anyone, on earth who goes around offering people outcomes to situations that haven't happened. If I'm wrong about that, do let me know, because I'd love to meet this person, or people, and let them fill in a lottery ticket for me.

Secondly - apart from the fact it's a total fantasy situation - it's also fundamentally flawed in its logic. Because it compares two totally different situations, two different sets of circumstances and two different points in time - and treats them as if they are the same situation, which they are not. The team has evolved since the start of the season - it's not exactly the same players doing the same things. And we have a different level of understanding of the challenges of Championship football now to what we had then. A totally different level of experience.

But most of all the reason why I dislike this stupid phrase is because it's "losers speak". It is usually trotted out when people are trying to hide their disappointment, by reflecting on a different period in time and taking some kind of comfort from that.

There's no consolation for me in thinking like that. We shouldn't be looking backwards at where we've come from, only looking forwards to where we are going and what we need to do to ensure we get there.

On the other hand..

Time for reflection in the midst of emotion is a useful thing.

Thinking back to our recent past and comparing that to the progress we have made. Remembering our expectations in August and comparing/contrasting should give us a clearer understanding of our progress.

And that's no bad thing.

 

[bornablade]

Chris Wilder will often refer back to our 'recent past' during his interviews.

I've a tendency of listening to and following his logic rather than the OP.

 

[thehet]

If someone did offer me 6th place I'd have taken it. They didn't but I'll take it anyway.

 

[Blade56]

I'm looking at the next game as the start of a new season. We have a bigger and deeper squad than we started this season with and we are looking up and not down as we all expected to. We are disappointed we are out of the promotion slots not happy we are not in the religation spots. We can play with our new squad safe in the knowledge we will be in this league (at least) next season. We can play this second half the way we want without fear of religation.

Sorry Cerberus Blade I'd have taken that

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

Yeah BUT if somebody HAD offered 6th place and besting the pigs, would you have taken it?

 

[GodricBlade]

On the other hand..

Time for reflection in the midst of emotion is a useful thing.

Thinking back to our recent past and comparing that to the progress we have made. Remembering our expectations in August and comparing/contrasting should give us a clearer understanding of our progress.

And that's no bad thing.

Got to agree.

At the start of the season, I said I’d like us not to lose to wendy & finish top half. Might be a bit pessimistic, but I said it.
Whilst frustrated & disappointed about last night’s game/result, I could put it into context.

I know no-one ‘offered me’ this - the sentiment is the same though & it’s just a well used turn of phrase that many people accept & use to balance stuff out.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I'm looking at the next game as the start of a new season. We have a bigger and deeper squad than we started this season with and we are looking up and not down as we all expected to. We are disappointed we are out of the promotion slots not happy we are not in the religation spots. We can play with our new squad safe in the knowledge we will be in this league (at least) next season. We can play this second half the way we want without fear of religation.

Sorry Cerberus Blade I'd have taken that

Well you can't have it! You'll just have to wait and see what happens!

I never thought for one minute we'd be looking down or in fear of relegation. I'd posted many times about that before a ball was kicked this season. I thought the team that came out of League 1 last season played some of the very best football I've ever seen from a Sheffield United side and had players that were more than capable of performing at Championship level. My prediction was for us to finish in the top 8 or 10, adding that if we did strengthen in Jan that could be a top 6 finish.

We have done even better than I expected in terms of the performances up to now, although my prediction still looks pretty solid. If anything, my expectations have increased now - I really don't see why we shouldn't be aiming for top 6 minimum and have a realistic chance of the top 2. I've not seen any teams outplay us all season - and we were far better than the current top 2 when we've played them.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

On the other hand..

Time for reflection in the midst of emotion is a useful thing.

Thinking back to our recent past and comparing that to the progress we have made. Remembering our expectations in August and comparing/contrasting should give us a clearer understanding of our progress.

And that's no bad thing.

Well, I totally agree with you that reflection is a very powerful and valuable thing. It's something that I've been taught to do and something I've taught others to do. But what you don't do, when teaching someone to reflect, is to take some stupid hypothetical basis for it, you base it on fact. And that's what I'm objecting to. Not the positive need for reflection, but the imaginary nonsense that this is dressed up in.

I think it's sufficient to reflect and say that we've made very good progress this season. For some/most Blades perhaps, it's beyond their wildest dreams. It isn't for me. We are roughly where I thought we would be, so I don't buy in to this idea that I'd have been grateful to have had what we've currently got, and I certainly don't use that to try and make myself feel better after the disappointment of a Sheffield derby. The season so far has been great overall, I'm really enjoying it. The match last night was ultimately disappointing - I really think we should have done far better with the possession we had. I don't see how imagining that some magic person could have offered me the future at the start of the season changes anything tbh! But...each to their own! If that's how some folk console themselves then fine. I suppose it's better than lashing out at everyone and everything around them.

 

[Tezza1889]

I’m tending to describe the situation where possible as..

Unbeaten... and 4 points .... would you have took that, I would..

Weren’t we supposed to be blown away..?

 

[SB_90]

Very true & i agree with you that its only natural that expections change. It is a way of trying to soften the blow & lose disappointment, Its a common thing you see multiple times a dart player can have 2 reactions to 100. If they hit T20, 20 20 they are angry, If they hit 20 20, T20 with final dart they are chuffed to bits & punching the air

Yes im pretty annoyed at how poor offensively we were at times its was like bolton dejavu. we overplayed & tried to be over perfect in final third also frustrating knowing they were beatable. I cant remember i ever seen a wednesday side come attack so little. But pre season & its good for balance to keep grounded because we are still only 5 months into our 1st season since 2010/11. I think i said in july that i would class a successful season as 11th place with no relegation fight. 4 pts off wednesday (albeit 3 at lane 1 at hillsborough) & a cup run. We already had 2 out of 3 objectives with Preston at home. A great chance to sort out the final objective

 

[super_pig]

Well you can't have it! You'll just have to wait and see what happens!

I never thought for one minute we'd be looking down or in fear of relegation. I'd posted many times about that before a ball was kicked this season. I thought the team that came out of League 1 last season played some of the very best football I've ever seen from a Sheffield United side and had players that were more than capable of performing at Championship level. My prediction was for us to finish in the top 8 or 10, adding that if we did strengthen in Jan that could be a top 6 finish.

We have done even better than I expected in terms of the performances up to now, although my prediction still looks pretty solid. If anything, my expectations have increased now - I really don't see why we shouldn't be aiming for top 6 minimum and have a realistic chance of the top 2. I've not seen any teams outplay us all season - and we were far better than the current top 2 when we've played them.

agree totally but i’m missing the point of the OP

 

[Tunstall Fred]

I'm content we have played Wednesday twice this season,and not lost

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Taking 4 points off them is a lovely feeling,and smashing them with 4 goals at pigsboro will live in the memory a long long time.

 

[Roygbiv]

It doesn't have to be black and white either way. You can be happy that we've taken 4 points off Wednesday and that we have established ourselves as a Championship club in our first season but still be disappointed we haven't maintained our initial standards.

We are in a good place. Much stronger than most thought we would be in out first season back but we've also realised we need more to progress even further.

 

[OldBillBlade]

"If someone had offered you (X) at the start of the season, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

We hear it a lot. And we heard it a lot last night, on radio, in the pub, on the forums, etc. Variations on...

"If someone had said we'd have took 4 points out of 6 against them at the start of season, and been in the top 6/top half of the table, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

First of all - it's a totally hypothetical, nonsensical thing to come out with. Because it's a fantasy situation, it couldn't happen. It's an impossibility. There is no-one, not anyone, on earth who goes around offering people outcomes to situations that haven't happened. If I'm wrong about that, do let me know, because I'd love to meet this person, or people, and let them fill in a lottery ticket for me.

Secondly - apart from the fact it's a total fantasy situation - it's also fundamentally flawed in its logic. Because it compares two totally different situations, two different sets of circumstances and two different points in time - and treats them as if they are the same situation, which they are not. The team has evolved since the start of the season - it's not exactly the same players doing the same things. And we have a different level of understanding of the challenges of Championship football now to what we had then. A totally different level of experience.

But most of all the reason why I dislike this stupid phrase is because it's "losers speak". It is usually trotted out when people are trying to hide their disappointment, by reflecting on a different period in time and taking some kind of comfort from that.

There's no consolation for me in thinking like that. We shouldn't be looking backwards at where we've come from, only looking forwards to where we are going and what we need to do to ensure we get there.

Cerebus. There are thousands probably millions who can offer you that scenario. They are called Bookmakers!

 

[boo radley]

Well, I totally agree with you that reflection is a very powerful and valuable thing. It's something that I've been taught to do and something I've taught others to do. But what you don't do, when teaching someone to reflect, is to take some stupid hypothetical basis for it, you base it on fact. And that's what I'm objecting to. Not the positive need for reflection, but the imaginary nonsense that this is dressed up in.

I think it's sufficient to reflect and say that we've made very good progress this season. For some/most Blades perhaps, it's beyond their wildest dreams. It isn't for me. We are roughly where I thought we would be, so I don't buy in to this idea that I'd have been grateful to have had what we've currently got, and I certainly don't use that to try and make myself feel better after the disappointment of a Sheffield derby. The season so far has been great overall, I'm really enjoying it. The match last night was ultimately disappointing - I really think we should have done far better with the possession we had. I don't see how imagining that some magic person could have offered me the future at the start of the season changes anything tbh! But...each to their own! If that's how some folk console themselves then fine. I suppose it's better than lashing out at everyone and everything around them.

Which of your many heads is talking?
You seem to want to say "look at me, I predicted 10th to 8th. So I'm pretty close".
Some people set their 'goals' in life. Some set it in football. I don't think CW did for this season as I think football is an adaptive situation and he has stated that on many occasions. You'll be disappointed then at this stage that we are slightly higher than you predicted but after reassessing your prediction you will now be disappointed if we don't finish top two. If however someone magical had the ability to fix the time line till May that said we'd finish top two or let it run till may (which we currently have), you'd take the first option.
You'd have laughed at someone's prediction that we'd walk this league and suggest a snigger for those who thought we'd finish 5th or 6th from bottom.
Go ahead give yourself a pat on the back and congratulations.

 

[maidmarion]

I think I can see where the OP is coming from.
At the start of the season if someone had said to me that Utd would go to the other side of the city and win, convincingly, and not lose at home I would have have been very pessimistic. However, last night, coming home, I was disappointed . Disappointed that we hadn't scored and also that we hadn't won.
That is how my expectations of watching United have changed. We now expect Utd to run at the opposition and score and produce entertaining football and most matches we get that. We do do that, as has been said, against teams who let us play that way but what we know have to do is find a way of getting around teams who do come to park the bus and catch us on the counter attack.
We have made several new signings, with more rumoured to follow. Let's now kick on and see what the rest of the season has to offer.

On another note. I was talking to a gentleman last night who has supported Utd all his life and is now in his 80s. He was saying that he has never known a spirit like it at Bramall Lane. The players, management and supporters are for once all singing from the same hymn sheet. It is a marvellous place to be in and let's not forget that.

UTB

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

If someone did offer me 6th place I'd have taken it. They didn't but I'll take it anyway.

Just before xmas, there was a knock at my door, I opened it, and was met by a pizza delivery type guy, with one of those big blue thermal bags. He opened it and tried to hand me something. I told him that i'd not ordered anything. He said 'take it' and 'no', he said 'take it, it's 6th place'. I said 'No, go away you odd ball'. He 'Okay', he walked back down my drive entered the post code for elland road on his iphone, got on his moped and drove off. I've regretted it ever since.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

"If someone had offered you (X) at the start of the season, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

We hear it a lot. And we heard it a lot last night, on radio, in the pub, on the forums, etc. Variations on...

"If someone had said we'd have took 4 points out of 6 against them at the start of season, and been in the top 6/top half of the table, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

First of all - it's a totally hypothetical, nonsensical thing to come out with. Because it's a fantasy situation, it couldn't happen. It's an impossibility. There is no-one, not anyone, on earth who goes around offering people outcomes to situations that haven't happened. If I'm wrong about that, do let me know, because I'd love to meet this person, or people, and let them fill in a lottery ticket for me.

Secondly - apart from the fact it's a total fantasy situation - it's also fundamentally flawed in its logic. Because it compares two totally different situations, two different sets of circumstances and two different points in time - and treats them as if they are the same situation, which they are not. The team has evolved since the start of the season - it's not exactly the same players doing the same things. And we have a different level of understanding of the challenges of Championship football now to what we had then. A totally different level of experience.

But most of all the reason why I dislike this stupid phrase is because it's "losers speak". It is usually trotted out when people are trying to hide their disappointment, by reflecting on a different period in time and taking some kind of comfort from that.

There's no consolation for me in thinking like that. We shouldn't be looking backwards at where we've come from, only looking forwards to where we are going and what we need to do to ensure we get there.

We all have our pet-hates with expressions, and I understand your point. I would come at it from a somewhat different angle. I would not expect it from the professionals - Wilder would certainly never be caught using it, and he would expect his players to be constantly aiming to be the best. That is the nature of professional sport. As fans we need to manage our expectations, or we are going to get more grief than joy out of something which is after all meant to be enjoyment. Only 3 teams out of 24 get promoted, so either 21 lots of fans are going to be pissed off each year, or we limit our expectations and just enjoy the ride - which includes draws and defeats. It is only because we were top a few weeks back that some of the recent results have been so hard to take - but at the beginning of the season, most of us were expecting plenty of difficult days. Think back 2 years (and history inevitably affects our views), and most of us would not have expected that by now we would be in the mix for playoff places, be above Wednesday, and would see them celebrate a 0-0 against us as if they had just won promotion. The important thing is the sense that we are progressing- for 15 months without problems, and recently with some problems which Wilder is addressing with well-planned signings (obviously nobody knows if they will be successful). We still have a sense of progress - I will resist the temptation to say that at the beginning of the season, I would have taken that.

 

[coolhandluke]

Chris Wilder will often refer back to our 'recent past' during his interviews.

I've a tendency of listening to and following his logic rather than the OP.

Chris Wilder is a junior manager with very limited experience. Cerberus is a mover and shaker within multi national corporations that turn over billions every month . I know who's advice I'm taking .

 

[Bladezz]

I look forward with small steps. Issue is our fans want everything and they want it now.

We didn’t even have the biggest budget in League one! We will see in a few months our wage budget soon enough. But I can bet you it’s in the bottom 6.

 

[mosbolad]

"If someone had offered you (X) at the start of the season, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

We hear it a lot. And we heard it a lot last night, on radio, in the pub, on the forums, etc. Variations on...

"If someone had said we'd have took 4 points out of 6 against them at the start of season, and been in the top 6/top half of the table, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

First of all - it's a totally hypothetical, nonsensical thing to come out with. Because it's a fantasy situation, it couldn't happen. It's an impossibility. There is no-one, not anyone, on earth who goes around offering people outcomes to situations that haven't happened. If I'm wrong about that, do let me know, because I'd love to meet this person, or people, and let them fill in a lottery ticket for me.

Secondly - apart from the fact it's a total fantasy situation - it's also fundamentally flawed in its logic. Because it compares two totally different situations, two different sets of circumstances and two different points in time - and treats them as if they are the same situation, which they are not. The team has evolved since the start of the season - it's not exactly the same players doing the same things. And we have a different level of understanding of the challenges of Championship football now to what we had then. A totally different level of experience.

But most of all the reason why I dislike this stupid phrase is because it's "losers speak". It is usually trotted out when people are trying to hide their disappointment, by reflecting on a different period in time and taking some kind of comfort from that.

There's no consolation for me in thinking like that. We shouldn't be looking backwards at where we've come from, only looking forwards to where we are going and what we need to do to ensure we get there.

What twaddle Cerberus.....

"If someone had said we'd have took 4 points out of 6 against them at the start of season, and been in the top 6/top half of the table, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

Absolutely!

"Loser speak" ?

If someone had offered me 100 points and automatic promotion last season, I'd have taken it....Can't see whats wrong with that can you?

"There is no-one, not anyone, on earth who goes around offering people outcomes to situations that haven't happened."

Are you serious? As someone pointed out .....Bookies! Or as happened last night the sweep in the pub before the match for the final score conducted on a beer mat.

Oh and your use of 'fantasy', this is coming from someone with the username Cerberus Blade........

 

[Hamburg Blade]

Well, as it happens, before the season started, someone did come up to me and offered me passing football and a strong, solid defence that meant we wouldn't lose against the pigs and wouldn't get relegated. I said "fuck off Adkins, thi had thi chance."

 

[Pinchy]

On the other hand..

Time for reflection in the midst of emotion is a useful thing.

Thinking back to our recent past and comparing that to the progress we have made. Remembering our expectations in August and comparing/contrasting should give us a clearer understanding of our progress.

And that's no bad thing.

Far better observation than the bollocks before it.

 

[B14Nco]

If we don’t go up.
If they don’t go down.

I would take 4 points against them next season. Regardless of how it pan out. NOW. PLEASE.
100%.

As I would’ve at the beginning of this year. I don’t see it being a losers perspective at all.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

Just before xmas, there was a knock at my door, I opened it, and was met by a pizza delivery type guy, with one of those big blue thermal bags. He opened it and tried to hand me something. I told him that i'd not ordered anything. He said 'take it' and 'no', he said 'take it, it's 6th place'. I said 'No, go away you odd ball'. He 'Okay', he walked back down my drive entered the post code for elland road on his iphone, got on his moped and drove off. I've regretted it ever since.

Aye but by the time he gets to Leeds it'll be clay cold & stale whilst ours will be a delectable home made red hot recipe with the additional ingredients we've just added
(With extra cheese)

 

[tomtheblade]

Taking 4 points from 6 off a team is, by definition, not losers speak, because in that situation you cannot have lost.

I agree we shouldn't be afraid to set our sights and standards higher as we progress. It's absolutely fine to be disappointed we didn't get the win last night.

Let's not get miserable though. Keep some perspective on how far we've come in such a short time, and how solid the underlying structure of the club and team is.

 

[alcoblade]

"If someone had offered you (X) at the start of the season, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

We hear it a lot. And we heard it a lot last night, on radio, in the pub, on the forums, etc. Variations on...

"If someone had said we'd have took 4 points out of 6 against them at the start of season, and been in the top 6/top half of the table, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

First of all - it's a totally hypothetical, nonsensical thing to come out with. Because it's a fantasy situation, it couldn't happen. It's an impossibility. There is no-one, not anyone, on earth who goes around offering people outcomes to situations that haven't happened. If I'm wrong about that, do let me know, because I'd love to meet this person, or people, and let them fill in a lottery ticket for me.

Secondly - apart from the fact it's a total fantasy situation - it's also fundamentally flawed in its logic. Because it compares two totally different situations, two different sets of circumstances and two different points in time - and treats them as if they are the same situation, which they are not. The team has evolved since the start of the season - it's not exactly the same players doing the same things. And we have a different level of understanding of the challenges of Championship football now to what we had then. A totally different level of experience.

But most of all the reason why I dislike this stupid phrase is because it's "losers speak". It is usually trotted out when people are trying to hide their disappointment, by reflecting on a different period in time and taking some kind of comfort from that.

There's no consolation for me in thinking like that. We shouldn't be looking backwards at where we've come from, only looking forwards to where we are going and what we need to do to ensure we get there.

Which in layman’s terms means that if you’re obsessed by being a smart arse, you can overthink things.

 

[ChemEngBlade]

"If someone had offered you (X) at the start of the season, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

We hear it a lot. And we heard it a lot last night, on radio, in the pub, on the forums, etc. Variations on...

"If someone had said we'd have took 4 points out of 6 against them at the start of season, and been in the top 6/top half of the table, you'd have took it wouldn't you?"

First of all - it's a totally hypothetical, nonsensical thing to come out with. Because it's a fantasy situation, it couldn't happen. It's an impossibility. There is no-one, not anyone, on earth who goes around offering people outcomes to situations that haven't happened. If I'm wrong about that, do let me know, because I'd love to meet this person, or people, and let them fill in a lottery ticket for me.

Secondly - apart from the fact it's a total fantasy situation - it's also fundamentally flawed in its logic. Because it compares two totally different situations, two different sets of circumstances and two different points in time - and treats them as if they are the same situation, which they are not. The team has evolved since the start of the season - it's not exactly the same players doing the same things. And we have a different level of understanding of the challenges of Championship football now to what we had then. A totally different level of experience.

But most of all the reason why I dislike this stupid phrase is because it's "losers speak". It is usually trotted out when people are trying to hide their disappointment, by reflecting on a different period in time and taking some kind of comfort from that.

There's no consolation for me in thinking like that. We shouldn't be looking backwards at where we've come from, only looking forwards to where we are going and what we need to do to ensure we get there.

It's called 'Hindsight Bias', basically the benefit of hindsight