Player Turnover

[Darren]

...since the end of last season is astonishing.

Our squad at the end of last season was as follows. I have bolded those who are no longer with us.

1. Kenny
2. Halford
3. Naysmith
4. Cotterill
5. Morgan
6.Kilgallon
7. Henderson
9. Lupoli
10. Webber
11. Hendrie
12. Sun
13. Bennett
14. Carney
15. Speed
17. Montgomery
18. Ward
19. Beattie
20. Howard
21. O'Toole
22. Haber
24. Sharp
25. Tahar
26. Geary
27. K. Quinn
28. S. Quinn
29. Roberson
30. Naughton
31. Starosta
32. Bromby
33. Ehiogu
34. Walker

So thats 20 out of 31 players gone in the last 9 months (though admittedly Haber and Sharp are only on loan and Robertson still appears to be on books despite being in prison) and of the other 11 Kenny is suspended and Speed seems to have semi-retired.

So thats 9 players in our current first team squad who were with us at the end of last season and I don't think there has ever been that sort of turnover of players in such a short time ever before in United's history.

 

[GoldCoast Blade]

What happened to O'Toole.
People on here thought he was ok and i've heard nothing of him since he left.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

What happened to O'Toole.
People on here thought he was ok and i've heard nothing of him since he left.

Think he signed for Colchester or somebody. Remember he left us with a bad injury.

 

[mickerz-blade]

...since the end of last season is astonishing.

Our squad at the end of last season was as follows. I have bolded those who are no longer with us.

1. Kenny
2. Halford
3. Naysmith
4. Cotterill
5. Morgan
6.Kilgallon
7. Henderson
9. Lupoli
10. Webber
11. Hendrie
12. Sun
13. Bennett
14. Carney
15. Speed
17. Montgomery
18. Ward
19. Beattie
20. Howard
21. O'Toole
22. Haber
24. Sharp
25. Tahar
26. Geary
27. K. Quinn
28. S. Quinn
29. Roberson
30. Naughton
31. Starosta
32. Bromby
33. Ehiogu
34. Walker

So thats 20 out of 31 players gone in the last 9 months (though admittedly Haber and Sharp are only on loan and Robertson still appears to be on books despite being in prison) and of the other 11 Kenny is suspended and Speed seems to have semi-retired.

So thats 9 players in our current first team squad who were with us at the end of last season and I don't think there has ever been that sort of turnover of players in such a short time ever before in United's history.

From that list 8 players have been regulars this season.

 

[tomtheblade]

Indeed, i would say it is remarkable that we are still sixth given that we have sold 3 of our best defenders(walker, naughton, killa), a top striker(beattie) and 2 pretty good midfielders (cotts, halford) in the past year, as well as half of the rest of the squad.

Still pisses me off it has to be like this though.

 

[Muttley]

34. Walker.......bold lettering as of yesterday.

 

[jodman]

I see that Cardiff have again negotiated a transfer window without losing Joe Ledley and Leeds have hung onto Beckford and Snodgrass.

As someone with very little knowledge of financial affairs at BDTBL; are we in a more precarious financial position then either of these two clubs?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I see that Cardiff have again negotiated a transfer window without losing Joe Ledley and Leeds have hung onto Beckford and Snodgrass.

As someone with very little knowledge of financial affairs at BDTBL; are we in a more precarious financial position then either of these two clubs?

I think Ledley is currently out after a 2nd hip operation.

Beckford will be off in the Summer unless Leeds are promoted and offer him Killa-esque wages and don't forget we hung on to Wardy

 

[Robbie]

don't forget we hung on to Wardy

Did anyone come in for him?

 

[jodman]

I think Ledley is currently out after a 2nd hip operation.

Beckford will be off in the Summer unless Leeds are promoted and offer him Killa-esque wages and don't forget we hung on to Wardy

I cannot imagine kind of reaction we would have seen if Ward had been sold in addition to the sale of Kilgallon and the loss of Walker during this transfer window.

I would suggest that the situation with Beckford is very similar to that which we had with Kilgallon (doubt that is the first time such a comparison has been made).

I just wondered if anyone who cares to study the balance sheets could enlighten me as to whether Leeds are in better overall financial state?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I read somewhere that Blackie said he hoped the Kallio deal was the last yesterday, particularly with players leaving as he'd heard a few whispers. Who knows what exactly that meant and which players he's referring to. Maybe he had an inkling about Kyle, maybe Wardy, one things for sure, he's not totally in control of outgoings by the looks of things.

 

[jodman]

I read somewhere that Blackie said he hoped the Kallio deal was the last yesterday, particularly with players leaving as he'd heard a few whispers. Who knows what exactly that meant and which players he's referring to. Maybe he had an inkling about Kyle, maybe Wardy, one things for sure, he's not totally in control of outgoings by the looks of things.

I have to agree; he clearly rated Kilgallon and Walker and he definately rated Beattie so it would seem a fair assumption that the decision regarding who is sold is not being made by him.

I'm also sure he would prefer to sign players on a permanant basis rather then rely on loans (he has said as much in the past) but i would imagine he has not been given sufficient funds to do so.

I personally feel a little sorry for him because he is the one who has to face the fans frustrations over the comings and goings but i'm sure his hands are tied in both instances.

That doesn't excuse some very poor signings he has made when the money has been made available, but for every Ched Evans (i havent written him off yet btw) there is a Jamie Ward.

 

[Pinchy]

...since the end of last season is astonishing.

Our squad at the end of last season was as follows. I have bolded those who are no longer with us.

1. Kenny
2. Halford
3. Naysmith
4. Cotterill
5. Morgan
6.Kilgallon
7. Henderson
9. Lupoli
10. Webber
11. Hendrie
12. Sun
13. Bennett
14. Carney
15. Speed
17. Montgomery
18. Ward
19. Beattie
20. Howard
21. O'Toole
22. Haber
24. Sharp
25. Tahar
26. Geary
27. K. Quinn
28. S. Quinn
29. Roberson
30. Naughton
31. Starosta
32. Bromby
33. Ehiogu
34. Walker

So thats 20 out of 31 players gone in the last 9 months (though admittedly Haber and Sharp are only on loan and Robertson still appears to be on books despite being in prison) and of the other 11 Kenny is suspended and Speed seems to have semi-retired.

So thats 9 players in our current first team squad who were with us at the end of last season and I don't think there has ever been that sort of turnover of players in such a short time ever before in United's history.

Jordan Robertson can expect to be released on prison licence around August. He is still a United player.

 

[Bramley]

Indeed, i would say it is remarkable that we are still sixth given that we have sold 3 of our best defenders(walker, naughton, killa), a top striker(beattie) and 2 pretty good midfielders (cotts, halford) in the past year, as well as half of the rest of the squad.

Still pisses me off it has to be like this though.

Looking at that turnover of players, plus the number of short-term loans etc, I seriously think questions need to be answered at Boardroom level.

How on earth we can have a coherent style of play, let alone be in the top 6, is beyond me.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Looking at that turnover of players, plus the number of short-term loans etc, I seriously think questions need to be answered at Boardroom level.

How on earth we can have a coherent style of play, let alone be in the top 6, is beyond me.

Blackie knew full-time at Wembley, hence his immediate post match comments to the players and subsequent resignation.

This is my main argument against the Blackwell-outers and why I think he's done a decent job this season. You can moan about team selections and tactics but the need for major sales and squad surgery has been out of his hands.

No doubt McCabe is trying to ride out a transitional couple of years, maybe bailing out within that time (the appointment of Birch would back this up) and no doubt Blackwell is a safe option during this time.

 

[Bramley]

Blackie knew full-time at Wembley, hence his immediate post match comments to the players and subsequent resignation.

This is my main argument against the Blackwell-outers and why I think he's done a decent job this season. You can moan about team selections and tactics but the need for major sales and squad surgery has been out of his hands.

No doubt McCabe is trying to ride out a transitional couple of years, maybe bailing out within that time (the appointment of Birch would back this up) and no doubt Blackwell is a safe option during this time.

The football has been mostly terrible this season, I'm happy to admit that. But the appointment of Birch is fairly transparent now - he's an insolvency man and it's cut and burn and to hell with the squad. I don't rate Blackwell but feel sorry for him - he'll get the dogs abuse from the fans about this and clearly he saw the writing on the wall after Wembley.

The whole situation now is I think the culmulation of a number of issues -

1) Paying daft money to players under the Robson era - Beattie, Ehiogu, Naysmith, Speed, Hendrie et al were on ridiculous money on long contracts.

2) Along with 1), the loss of the parachute payments.

3) The idiotic construction of the hotel, I would have paid absolutely anything to see the red book appraisal of that - someone missed 'locating a hotel in the middle of fucking nowhere/tourist hotbed of Sharrow' off the abnormal costs.

4) The cautiousness of McCabe.

5) The raised expectations following the Warnock era.

Moving forward, there needs to be some communication from the board to the fans, to at the very least readjust the level of expectation. I imagine McCabe is hoping that being in the top 6 will keep the renewals of season ticket at a decent level, but I think a lot of the newer supporters won't renew again. I think McCabe and the board are relying on this and I think its not a good idea.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I cannot imagine kind of reaction we would have seen if Ward had been sold in addition to the sale of Kilgallon and the loss of Walker during this transfer window.

I would suggest that the situation with Beckford is very similar to that which we had with Kilgallon (doubt that is the first time such a comparison has been made).

I just wondered if anyone who cares to study the balance sheets could enlighten me as to whether Leeds are in better overall financial state?

They went into admin and wiped out all their debts. They made a 4.5million profit the year after. I would hazard they'll make a similar return this year given the sale of deplh.

They don't have any physical assets to speak of however. We do, but unfortunately some of the money that normally would go to the 1st team appears to be funnelled into other areas of the business.

 

[Bramley]

They went into admin and wiped out all their debts. They made a 4.5million profit the year after. I would hazard they'll make a similar return this year given the sale of deplh.

They don't have any physical assets to speak of however. We do, but unfortunately some of the money that normally would go to the 1st team appears to be funnelled into other areas of the business.

I think McCabe has subsidised United and he's not willing to do so any further. That's his prerogative but I foresee further sales of players and wage cutting over the summer.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Moving forward, there needs to be some communication from the board to the fans, to at the very least readjust the level of expectation. I imagine McCabe is hoping that being in the top 6 will keep the renewals of season ticket at a decent level, but I think a lot of the newer supporters won't renew again. I think McCabe and the board are relying on this and I think its not a good idea.

To be honest Bramley, I don't think a Q&A session with McCabe would do any good at the moment, you may as well just listen to the presenters on Football Heaven. He would say look at our league position, look at the money spent on Evans, still have a reasonably high wage bill, ground improvements agreed etc etc

McCabe has definitely taken season ticket sales for granted, has been lucky in that we finished 07/08 and 08/09 reasonably well and needs a similarly decent run in the next few weeks for when the renewal letters start getting dished out in a month or so. Regardless of the whys and wherefores, there's also no doubt that the Kyle W recall hasn't done him any favours and couldn't have happened at a worse time.

 

[jodman]

I had forgotten the sale of Delph; i suppose we could liken this to the sale of Naughton.

With the Beckford situation very similar to that of Kilgallon and in this scenario i would say that Walker is equivalent to Snodgrass.

We both cashed in on our most saleable asset (Naughton - Delph).

We also cashed in on our other most saleable asset (Walker) whilst leeds kept hold of theirs (Snodgrass?)

We allowed one of the best players in the league to leave in January rather then run down his contract (Kilgallon) while Leeds decided to get the best out of theirs to try and aid their promotion push (Beckford).

I suppose one could say that Leeds are far more likely to be promoted then ourselves which kind of swings things slightly. Or maybe i'm just skewing facts to try and make a pattern.

Either way it was fun

 

[Grecian2000]

That's his prerogative but I foresee further sales of players and wage cutting over the summer.

How many saleable assets do we have though? Ward and , errr, no I think it's just Ward.
Evans would be sold at a loss, Henderson might fetch a mil if we can keep getting a few pens, otherwise I think we've pretty much cashed in the chips.
Naysmith, Kenny, Morgs and Monty are possibly the biggest earners and I don't see any big fees coming for any of them.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

We've just got an international keeper for nothing! He might turn out to be worth a few bob.

 

[JohnDenver]

This is possibly the most reasoned thread we've had concerning our current situation. Very hard to argue with any of it.

Maybe it helps being midweek so the reactionaries don't have their blood up.

One point of order... "McCabe has definitely taken season ticket sales for granted". Can't agree with that. Keeping prices relatively low and encouraging kids' attendance is a real achievement of McCabe's reign (i.m.h.o.).

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

This is possibly the most reasoned thread we've had concerning our current situation. Very hard to argue with any of it.

Maybe it helps being midweek so the reactionaries don't have their blood up.

One point of order... "McCabe has definitely taken season ticket sales for granted". Can't agree with that. Keeping prices relatively low and encouraging kids' attendance is a real achievement of McCabe's reign (i.m.h.o.).

He's made it affordable and attracted the families yes (helped doubtless by a season in the Prem) but I bet he's banking on a similar figure for next season. I'm probably doing him a disservice but the point I'm trying to make is that he can only rely on loyalty for so long as our friends across the city have found out in recent years.

 

[Grecian2000]

He's made it affordable and attracted the families yes (helped doubtless by a season in the Prem) but I bet he's banking on a similar figure for next season. I'm probably doing him a disservice but the point I'm trying to make is that he can only rely on loyalty for so long as our friends across the city have found out in recent years.

and therein may lie the rub.

If, as Bramley said, we are still looking to sell/reduce wages in the summer, and we haven't got enough playing assets to raise the required amount, then we may need to raise prices.
These have been kept low for a few seasons now and any serious increase would see a significant reduction in numbers in my opinion.

 

[jodman]

I suppose the variable in the equation is just whether we somehow manage to win promotion this year.

In that scenario we would receive a massive increase in revenue and also have just cause to raise the ticket prices.

On the flip side, the required recruitment may in fact leave us worse off (considering how threadbare and lacking in genuine quality the squad is currently).

Maybe we would see the club bank the money and accept relegation in order to stabilise the club.

 

[Bramley]

Good thread by all concerned.

 

[super_pig]

classic sign of poor management is high employee turnover