Perspective

[bongleblade]

One question i keep coming back to with our situation is: Would we sack Wilder if we had 1 point at this stage last season? in fact, would we even question it?

Hate to say it, and i denied it at the time, but last season we rode on a wave of momentum, and we have lost momentum now, then tie in the fact our squad is not EPL standard, plus injuries to key players, and no wonder we only have 1 point. And unfortunately we will be relegated this season, unless we find momentum again somehow.

Looking at relegation... it isn't the end of the world.. in fact tons of teams get relegated and then bounce back better. Burnley have been promoted 3 times to the EPL in the past 10 years, for example each time improving their infrastructure, improving their squads, and I believe we could do the same if we give Wilder the chance. Does anyone believe we would not be looking at promotion in the Championship with this lot under Wilder?

We have a ton of decent young players who will thrive at Championship level. I know most of us here have a fair level of trauma from the 06/07 relegation... this is not the 06/07 relegation, we have a completely different philosophy now, different owner, different era etc... even though it might feel a bit like 06/07 at the moment.

In my opinion, none of the above means sack Wilder, or get rid of the philosophies that got us here... evidently we were not robust or ready enough for the EPL, but I am very confident we will be in future if we give Wilder the chance

 

[8lade]

Relegation wouldn't be the end of the world but the manner of it will be. Going down bottom on 30 points is one thing but I hope I don't have to spell out an alternative scenario as I don't even want to type where we're heading at the moment.

 

[ekke287]

We didn’t ride a wave of momentum last season. We narrowly edged out teams to victory whilst conceding minimal goals per game (bar a couple of instances either way).

This season we’re without key players and it’s obvious we can’t replace like for like. Those key players are at both ends of the pitch, so couple this with other starters under performing we have more goals going in our net and little to nothing at the other end.

The positive side is that we’re not getting spanked every week, so the infrastructure in depth is there. Once our strikers find some form as well I think we’ll start seeing some positive results.

I don’t think we’ll survive however but we won’t go down with three points or something stupid, and I agree we shouldn’t get rid of CW.

 

[metalblade]

We are not doing a lot wrong it is squad depth that is hurting us. We had a good run last season until Fleck and JOC got injured then we saw a drop off in results, same this season injuries and loss of form/confidence are the problem and not having a good enough back up squad. If we go down we can come back stronger if we can keep most of the squad together and add to it. I see no point in going down the S6 road and sacking managers every Christmas stick with what we have.

 

[Working Class Hero]

We are not doing a lot wrong it is squad depth that is hurting us. We had a good run last season until Fleck and JOC got injured then we saw a drop off in results, same this season injuries and loss of form/confidence are the problem and not having a good enough back up squad. If we go down we can come back stronger if we can keep most of the squad together and add to it. I see no point in going down the S6 road and sacking managers every Christmas stick with what we have.

That's the worrying thing for me, we've spent £130m and the depth is still poor. The starting lineup isn't any better either. How does that even happen?

 

[YES Blade]

Relegation wouldn't be the end of the world? It took us 12 seasons to get back after each relegation in 93/94 and 06/07, so forgive me if I'm not optimistic about a quick return.

It took Leeds 16 seasons to get back, Forest are 20 years and counting, same with the Pigs. How anyone can be so flippant about relegation I don’t know. It’s hard to get to the Premier League, so we shouldn’t just give it up without a fight because Wilder will get us back up apparently.

 

[bongleblade]

Relegation wouldn't be the end of the world? It took us 12 seasons to get back after each relegation in 93/94 and 06/07, so forgive me if I'm not optimistic about a quick return.

It took Leeds 16 seasons to get back, Forest are 20 years and counting, same with the Pigs. How anyone can be so flippant about relegation I don’t know. It’s hard to get to the Premier League, so we shouldn’t just give it up without a fight because Wilder will get us back up apparently.

to me, it depends on the context to relegation, Forest for example, their EPL status was the back end of the Clough era, whereas Leeds were in the shit big time financially... the pigs are a complete different story altogether....

I think the only way we could prevent it from being a 'catastrophic' relegation is if Wilder stays.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Relegation wouldn't be the end of the world? It took us 12 seasons to get back after each relegation in 93/94 and 06/07, so forgive me if I'm not optimistic about a quick return.

It took Leeds 16 seasons to get back, Forest are 20 years and counting, same with the Pigs. How anyone can be so flippant about relegation I don’t know. It’s hard to get to the Premier League, so we shouldn’t just give it up without a fight because Wilder will get us back up apparently.

Did Derby County ever come back after their 07/08 debacle?

 

[gordoncharles]

Relegation wouldn't be the end of the world? It took us 12 seasons to get back after each relegation in 93/94 and 06/07, so forgive me if I'm not optimistic about a quick return.

It took Leeds 16 seasons to get back, Forest are 20 years and counting, same with the Pigs. How anyone can be so flippant about relegation I don’t know. It’s hard to get to the Premier League, so we shouldn’t just give it up without a fight because Wilder will get us back up apparently.

Yes, getting promoted is difficult, but getting relegated is quite easy. Half the current PL will be relegated in the next half dozen seasons, including us, it's just a matter of when.

Apart from the obvious 7 clubs, nobody else has been there longer than West Ham (9th season).

SInce 1992-93 Palace, West Brom and Norwich have had five separate spells in it. Leicester, Sunderland and Middlesbrough have been in it and out of it 4 times.

Norwich, Bournemouth and Watford currently sit 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the Championship.

Getting relegated is not a disaster if you show some balls and don't panic. However, this is Sheffield United where our attitudes are wholly pessimistic, not Wednesday where HMSPTL would be pushed straight back into the water

 

[SouthportBlade]

For every example of a team going down and into the doldrums for many years theres examples of teams yoyo-ing or going back up and staying there.

So quoting examples is not overly useful.

Ask yourself these questions, if we get relegated

• Are we financially stable?
• Have we got a good manager?
• Have we got players with potential and possible resale value?
• Have we got players who have performed it in the Championship previously?

Answer these with a clear head and whist getting relegated will be a kick in teeth, it's clearly not the end of the world.

 

[hidesbehindapseudonym]

It doesn't feel like we will be going down on 1 goal difference this time.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

The fact that we are talking about relegation being 75% certain in November speaks to how bad we’ve been.

 

[JJBlade]

Relegation would be the end of the world

It would not be followed by promotion again because we never have done

We are not Watford or Leicester or Southampton or West Ham or Newcastle or West Brom or Villa who have gone down and gone back up again. We are not like Norwich or Bournemouth who will probably go back up again because they will just do the same things on the pitch over and over again

Relegation for us will mean relegation again within three years.

It always does

 

[knowsnowt]

We aren't going down.

 

[8lade]

We aren't going down.

You have no power here McCabe! (Actually you didn't last time either).

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Relegation would be the end of the world

It would not be followed by promotion again because we never have done

We are not Watford or Leicester or Southampton or West Ham or Newcastle or West Brom or Villa who have gone down and gone back up again. We are not like Norwich or Bournemouth who will probably go back up again because they will just do the same things on the pitch over and over again

Relegation for us will mean relegation again within three years.

It always does

What about Burnley?

Relegated in 2014-15, kept Sean Dyche and then promoted straight back to the Premier League in 2015-16.

Very comparable example to us.

 

[Bellypork]

Wilder has been a victim of his own success. He's been pulling rabbits out of hats for several years now, and fans start to regard that as the norm. It isn't. To begin with, would United have got out of the Championship under any other manager, bearing in mind the level of investment? Possibly, but in my opinion it would have been unlikely. Then, with a few additions, he got the club to a mid-table PL finish. That's unheard of; it just doesn't happen. His recruitment has been poor, largely because of his ignorance of the foreign leagues, but there's no questioning his management skills as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I’ll preface this by saying I still think wilder is 100% the right man for the job. and I would keep him even if we go down.

But I don’t think anyone’s asking for the world - with key injuries and loss of form, no fans etc. Even without that relegation was more than possible given the quality in the league.

But we’ve spent nearly 80million in the last 12 months and the side clearly has regressed and has massive gaps in it. we’ve taken 1 (ONE) point (against a side that will also go down) from the last 39 available.

A Neil warnock side made a better fist of this division than we are doing currently. I don’t care if we go down I just want to see us make a decent attempt at staying in this league - I want some results to cling to I want some hope, even if it’s false. Hell, I’d even take a fucking goal to celebrate at the moment.

It’s not out of the question we’ll have 1 point by Xmas - just a abject return given the spend - made even worse by how we know they can perform.

 

[bongleblade]

But we’ve spent nearly 80million in the last 12 months and the side clearly has regressed and has massive gaps in it. we’ve taken 1 (ONE) point (against a side that will also go down) from the last 39 available.

Said it once and i will say this again... that is a pittance considering our club's situation... £80m for basically any other team except us would be a lot to spend in one season, as most teams in this league already had decent enough squads/infrastructure in place (including WBA and Fulham - don't forget they had very recent epl stints).

But when we start to look at the big picture with our spending: we have the lowest expenditure out of current EPL clubs in the past 5 seasons, and then also compare the figure spent to where our squad was at coming in to this league (no permanent GK, majority L1/Championship standard, extremely shallow defensive and midfield cover)...

we had to spend £130m to merely compete on both 1st team quality and squad depth... it is like trying to bail the titanic with buckets.

The recruitment has not been brilliant, but also we've tried to go about it sensibly and kept our wage structure and philosophy of British players in place too.. it is a very difficult one to balance.

I'm just glad we aren't facing relegation with some overpaid foreign acquisitions who will leave at the first sniff of relegation PLUS the ensuing financial oblivion. Look at Stoke, Wigan and Sunderland for an example of this

 

[knowsnowt]

In fairness £80m wouldn't buy you Dean Henderson and pay his wages for a 4 year contract. We're signing 3rd choice players because it's all we can afford.
Take a look at the Maupay/McBurnie thread.. No one is saying we shouldn't blow £20m on a championship striker, it's just a discussion on which we should sign, and if we'd signed neither people. would be slating the board and Chris.
Quite simply, at the minute, we can't afford to compete.

 

[hidesbehindapseudonym]

Said it once and i will say this again... that is a pittance considering our club's situation... £80m for basically any other team except us would be a lot to spend in one season, as most teams in this league already had decent enough squads/infrastructure in place (including WBA and Fulham - don't forget they had very recent epl stints).

But when we start to look at the big picture with our spending: we have the lowest expenditure out of current EPL clubs in the past 5 seasons, and then also compare the figure spent to where our squad was at coming in to this league (no permanent GK, majority L1/Championship standard, extremely shallow defensive and midfield cover)...

we had to spend £130m to merely compete on both 1st team quality and squad depth... it is like trying to bail the titanic with buckets.

The recruitment has not been brilliant, but also we've tried to go about it sensibly and kept our wage structure and philosophy of British players in place too.. it is a very difficult one to balance.

If we had spent ZERO we could have hardly done worse (except for the point against Fulham).

 

[bongleblade]

If we had spent ZERO we could have hardly done worse.

but looking back, what if another of the back 6 got seriously injured? We've been extremely lucky to only have JOC out so far in our epl stint... i Wouldn't fancy Kean Bryan or Rodwell filling in for the whole season

 

[ancientblade]

Relegation would be the end of the world

It would not be followed by promotion again because we never have done

We are not Watford or Leicester or Southampton or West Ham or Newcastle or West Brom or Villa who have gone down and gone back up again. We are not like Norwich or Bournemouth who will probably go back up again because they will just do the same things on the pitch over and over again

Relegation for us will mean relegation again within three years.

It always does

how can you possibly be sure we wont come back up just because we havent done it before ? 2 out of the 3 will probably come back up if not all 3 weve a better squad and manager than all those 3 and i would back us even now to finish in the top 6

 

[Bellypork]

Said it once and i will say this again... that is a pittance considering our club's situation... £80m for basically any other team except us would be a lot to spend in one season, as most teams in this league already had decent enough squads/infrastructure in place (including WBA and Fulham - don't forget they had very recent epl stints).

But when we start to look at the big picture with our spending: we have the lowest expenditure out of current EPL clubs in the past 5 seasons, and then also compare the figure spent to where our squad was at coming in to this league (no permanent GK, majority L1/Championship standard, extremely shallow defensive and midfield cover)...

we had to spend £130m to merely compete on both 1st team quality and squad depth... it is like trying to bail the titanic with buckets.

The recruitment has not been brilliant, but also we've tried to go about it sensibly and kept our wage structure and philosophy of British players in place too.. it is a very difficult one to balance.

I'm just glad we aren't facing relegation with some overpaid foreign acquisitions who will leave at the first sniff of relegation PLUS the ensuing financial oblivion. Look at Stoke, Wigan and Sunderland for an example of this

Yes, I agree. It was great that Wilder got the club into the PL with relatively little expenditure, by virtue of his management skills and knowledge of the lower leagues, but the problem then is that once the club goes up it has a team of players many of whom are not good enough for the PL. In short, United went up because of the manager rather than the players, as against, say, a Newcastle who had got a PL outfit (albeit a weak one) in the Championship. Last season was an incredible achievement, but this season was always going to be much tougher. The transition to becoming an established PL outfit is an onerous task, especially when funds are relatively limited. Bargains cannot be had in large enough numbers at this level by shopping in this country, so the club has to cast its net far wider to where bargains can be had. I just don't see how any club can establish itself at this level by exclusively shopping at home. Well, not unless it's absolutely loaded.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Said it once and i will say this again... that is a pittance considering our club's situation... £80m for basically any other team except us would be a lot to spend in one season, as most teams in this league already had decent enough squads/infrastructure in place (including WBA and Fulham - don't forget they had very recent epl stints).

But when we start to look at the big picture with our spending: we have the lowest expenditure out of current EPL clubs in the past 5 seasons, and then also compare the figure spent to where our squad was at coming in to this league (no permanent GK, majority L1/Championship standard, extremely shallow defensive and midfield cover)...

we had to spend £130m to merely compete on both 1st team quality and squad depth... it is like trying to bail the titanic with buckets.

The recruitment has not been brilliant, but also we've tried to go about it sensibly and kept our wage structure and philosophy of British players in place too.. it is a very difficult one to balance.

I'm just glad we aren't facing relegation with some overpaid foreign acquisitions who will leave at the first sniff of relegation PLUS the ensuing financial oblivion. Look at Stoke, Wigan and Sunderland for an example of this

I understand the point - and no doubt we were playing catch up. It’s not helped 90% of the squad is probably performing at less than 70% of the levels the achieved last year. No one is distinguishing themselves positively.

I do think it’s reductive to say we just couldn’t compete and 80m wasn’t enough. We’ve just spent it very very poorly imo. Which is criminal given the how tight money is. To me - Going 90% British lack imagination and is more expensive than shopping around imo.

ramsdale - a decent enough keeper. but No one can convince we we couldn’t have shopped around and replaced hendo with another loan and saved 20 million or taken a more cost effective purchase from elsewhere.

bogel - we may as well have left him in derby for all he’s Provided. Spend that money elsewhere.

Brewster - ok. It’s been hard for him and hopefully he’ll come good when not thrown into unwinnable positions against top 4/6 opponents. But we had a ton of strikers, we needed creativity

The probably exception is Berge, being the only one we would get our money back on - a decent player and you can see the LT thinking.

It’s all captain hindsight. But the resource allocation was all backwards.

1 - loan a keeper (using our untapped loans)
2 - spend the money saved on a decent defender - rather than relying on out of position players or inadequate back up.
3 - spend the money saved on bogle on a cheaper option at forward. Bologun/grant or something.
4 - spend the 25 million plus save on Brewster on an attacking match winner / some creativity. Get someone in the squad who can beat a man, Score out of nothing , excite the fans etc.

 

[Begley]

Said it once and i will say this again... that is a pittance considering our club's situation... £80m for basically any other team except us would be a lot to spend in one season, as most teams in this league already had decent enough squads/infrastructure in place (including WBA and Fulham - don't forget they had very recent epl stints).

But when we start to look at the big picture with our spending: we have the lowest expenditure out of current EPL clubs in the past 5 seasons, and then also compare the figure spent to where our squad was at coming in to this league (no permanent GK, majority L1/Championship standard, extremely shallow defensive and midfield cover)...

we had to spend £130m to merely compete on both 1st team quality and squad depth... it is like trying to bail the titanic with buckets.

The recruitment has not been brilliant, but also we've tried to go about it sensibly and kept our wage structure and philosophy of British players in place too.. it is a very difficult one to balance.

I'm just glad we aren't facing relegation with some overpaid foreign acquisitions who will leave at the first sniff of relegation PLUS the ensuing financial oblivion. Look at Stoke, Wigan and Sunderland for an example of this

Villa fan in peace

I do sympathise with you guys. You are not getting any luck and should really have beaten WBA with the chances you had. I also think you need to stick with CW even if you go down.

the point you made about having to build a team for the PL is exactly what happened Villa when we went up. Mings, Tuanzebe, ElGhazi, Abraham were all on loan. We also had about 5 or 6 players that were old and past it eg Hutton and Adomah. We bought 14 new players at the cost of 140m and it was very difficult. We need a technical error against you guys and it still went to the final day. I see Blades in a similar position.

I don’t think relegation is a certainty for you by any means. I think at least Fulham, Baggies and Burnley are worse than Blades and there are still 28 games to play. Yes you need to stop the rot and score some goals and get some points but it is not impossible.

I think Jan will be key for you. Do your owners plan for the Championship or do you break the back a little and get a decent striker in on loan for second half of the season to give yourselves a fighting chance. Recruitment has been poor and you need a striker as Brewster is just not ready yet although I believe he will be a very good buy in time. I think someone like Origi from Liverpool on loan could be possible as Liverpool appear to have a ridiculous amount of absolutely world class players. With Jota having come in I just can see Origi getting any game time.

anyway, good luck for the rest of the seasons.

 

[Sheff de party]

One question i keep coming back to with our situation is: Would we sack Wilder if we had 1 point at this stage last season? in fact, would we even question it?

Hate to say it, and i denied it at the time, but last season we rode on a wave of momentum, and we have lost momentum now, then tie in the fact our squad is not EPL standard, plus injuries to key players, and no wonder we only have 1 point. And unfortunately we will be relegated this season, unless we find momentum again somehow.

Looking at relegation... it isn't the end of the world.. in fact tons of teams get relegated and then bounce back better. Burnley have been promoted 3 times to the EPL in the past 10 years, for example each time improving their infrastructure, improving their squads, and I believe we could do the same if we give Wilder the chance. Does anyone believe we would not be looking at promotion in the Championship with this lot under Wilder?

We have a ton of decent young players who will thrive at Championship level. I know most of us here have a fair level of trauma from the 06/07 relegation... this is not the 06/07 relegation, we have a completely different philosophy now, different owner, different era etc... even though it might feel a bit like 06/07 at the moment.

In my opinion, none of the above means sack Wilder, or get rid of the philosophies that got us here... evidently we were not robust or ready enough for the EPL, but I am very confident we will be in future if we give Wilder the chance

Good post but I would say it is every wonder we only have one point. We’re not the worst team in the league, let alone the worst in Prem history, but somehow have the worst start.

If any of our players could finish, and McBurnie is the main culprit, we would have more points. We should have at least 9.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Relegation would be the end of the world

It would not be followed by promotion again because we never have done

We are not Watford or Leicester or Southampton or West Ham or Newcastle or West Brom or Villa who have gone down and gone back up again. We are not like Norwich or Bournemouth who will probably go back up again because they will just do the same things on the pitch over and over again

Relegation for us will mean relegation again within three years.

It always does

There is so much in this post that is clearly insane that I don't know where to begin. Actually, I really can't be bothered.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Villa fan in peace

I do sympathise with you guys. You are not getting any luck and should really have beaten WBA with the chances you had. I also think you need to stick with CW even if you go down.

the point you made about having to build a team for the PL is exactly what happened Villa when we went up. Mings, Tuanzebe, ElGhazi, Abraham were all on loan. We also had about 5 or 6 players that were old and past it eg Hutton and Adomah. We bought 14 new players at the cost of 140m and it was very difficult. We need a technical error against you guys and it still went to the final day. I see Blades in a similar position.

I don’t think relegation is a certainty for you by any means. I think at least Fulham, Baggies and Burnley are worse than Blades and there are still 28 games to play. Yes you need to stop the rot and score some goals and get some points but it is not impossible.

I think Jan will be key for you. Do your owners plan for the Championship or do you break the back a little and get a decent striker in on loan for second half of the season to give yourselves a fighting chance. Recruitment has been poor and you need a striker as Brewster is just not ready yet although I believe he will be a very good buy in time. I think someone like Origi from Liverpool on loan could be possible as Liverpool appear to have a ridiculous amount of absolutely world class players. With Jota having come in I just can see Origi getting any game time.

anyway, good luck for the rest of the seasons.

You make a lot more sense and provide a saner perspective than a large proportion of our bedwetting fans. In fact I'm not sure how they even manage to wet the bed so copiously with their genital area so thoroughly clogged with sand. Thank you.

 

[Houston_Blade]

We should have at least 9.

How do you think we should have 9 points?

The only game that we should have won is the WBA game. We deserved nothing against Fulham and probably should have had a point each against Leeds and Villa.

The results were fair in the other games I reckon.