Penalty appeal and VAR

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oldblade said:
Fair enough and you are entitled to your view.

To be honest it's just quite pleasant to have a sensible discussion after witnessing the abuse, hatred and bile directed at our players and management during the game on shoutbox.
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I may have got carried away in some of my comments on here with people throwing around words like corruption and assault tbh.

As I've said, I can see why some people would see it as a pen and why it might have been given. If that was a defender, it would have been a pen.

It's a keeper though. A keeper who blocked the shot with his left and followed through with his right. Could he have stopped his right foot, I don't know. I really don't think it was malicious. He was just making sure he saved the shot. Keepers routinely slide/run out, get the ball and then take the man following through. I really don't see any difference here. The ball had gone, it didn't stop a goal and thankfully Bogle seems ok.
 



wizadry said:
That also puts them down to 9 men for a wreck less and dangerous challenge, like Lundstrams at Brighton and that makes us huge favourites no matter how shite we were.

Ultimately, we were terrible and way too negative, strangely though I still say we had the three best chances, Stevens, Sharp (should’ve left it for McBurnie) both onside by the way and the Bryan header from a corner all should’ve been buried, all these coupled with the penalty and you’re looking at 4-2 to us, they only had one other good chance other than the goal and we created those two chances for them too, after seeing how shite and negative we were how crazy does that sound, 4-2 to us? 🤷‍♂️😁
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Exactly. I just do not see why a draw would have been undeserved or some sort of injustice to Fulham.

We weren't very good. Neither were they.

They had lots of possession, but rarely hurt us. We had little possession but actually had as many clear chances as them.

We had a (IMHO) stonewall penalty not given.

If there was any robbery going on it wasn't against Fulham!
 
robbiez666 said:
I may have got carried away in some of my comments on here with people throwing around words like corruption and assault tbh.

As I've said, I can see why some people would see it as a pen and why it might have been given. If that was a defender, it would have been a pen.

It's a keeper though. A keeper who blocked the shot with his left and followed through with his right. Could he have stopped his right foot, I don't know. I really don't think it was malicious. He was just making sure he saved the shot. Keepers routinely slide/run out, get the ball and then take the man following through. I really don't see any difference here. The ball had gone, it didn't stop a goal and thankfully Bogle seems ok.
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What you’re saying isn’t necessarily wrong Robbie but regardless of whether he blocked it and his right leg was following through or not its reckless and dangerous foul play, either way it’s a stonewaller and the fact we’re even debating it is worrying for the state of the game and what decisions are been given at some games and not others. Some decisions are that bad that cheating has to come into the equation, I can’t see how 4 or 5 officials can come to the conclusion of some of the decisions we see every week. VAR isn’t the problem, it’s the useless twats using it and how they use it that is.
 
wizadry said:
What you’re saying isn’t necessarily wrong Robbie but regardless of whether he blocked it and his right leg was following through or not its reckless and dangerous foul play, either way it’s a stonewaller and the fact we’re even debating it is worrying for the state of the game and what decisions are been given at some games and not others. Some decisions are that bad that cheating has to come into the equation, I can’t see how 4 or 5 officials can come to the conclusion of some of the decisions we see every week. VAR isn’t the problem, it’s the useless twats using it and how they use it that is.
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He's a keeper though mate. Keepers routinely recklessly slide or run out, come through a crowd and flatten everyone. Never get punished as long as they get the ball. This looked terrible but I essentially don't see the difference.
 
robbiez666 said:
I may have got carried away in some of my comments on here with people throwing around words like corruption and assault tbh.

As I've said, I can see why some people would see it as a pen and why it might have been given. If that was a defender, it would have been a pen.

It's a keeper though. A keeper who blocked the shot with his left and followed through with his right. Could he have stopped his right foot, I don't know. I really don't think it was malicious. He was just making sure he saved the shot. Keepers routinely slide/run out, get the ball and then take the man following through. I really don't see any difference here. The ball had gone, it didn't stop a goal and thankfully Bogle seems ok.
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I don't think it was malicious and he didn't intend to take him out, but he did raise his leg as they came together.

Also I feel the challenge had a degree of recklessness in that it was obvious he was going to take out the attacking player by committing himself to that challenge. As I saw it the way he went out meant he couldn't avoid taking him out which I don't think excludes you from being penalised.

But I accept that is my opinion and others may differ in their views.
 
oldblade said:
Exactly. I just do not see why a draw would have been undeserved or some sort of injustice to Fulham.

We weren't very good. Neither were they.

They had lots of possession, but rarely hurt us. We had little possession but actually had as many clear chances as them.

We had a (IMHO) stonewall penalty not given.

If there was any robbery going on it wasn't against Fulham!
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Chances and finishing them wins you games and we aren’t very good at converting them, not that we get many and I don’t disagree, the overriding problem tonight though was how we set up and basically whimpered to a loss against a team third from bottom when we know we had nothing to lose.

Our chances came when we got the ball on the deck, it’s no coincidence that we look ten times a better team when we do so why we play so much hoof ball when it doesn’t suit us or McBurnie is baffling, the manager has to shoulder this.

Ultimately there’s too many problems going on to even discuss whether or not we deserved anything from the game tonight for most people, a lot of people think we deserved to lose and got what we deserved because of how we set up and deployed our tactics, if you can call them tactics anyway, it’s very hard to be rational at times like this but I can understand their thinking to be honest.
 
robbiez666 said:
He's a keeper though mate. Keepers routinely recklessly slide or run out, come through a crowd and flatten everyone. Never get punished as long as they get the ball. This looked terrible but I essentially don't see the difference.
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Again, you’re right, this does happen but they aren’t mutually exclusive and I do think keepers get away with murder.

I saw one the other day, can’t remember the game but he came out to punch the ball and barely touched the ball and punched an opponent in the head, he was down for a couple of minutes, it all got brushed under the carpet and nothing was given but it’s obviously wreck less and dangerous, I don’t know how he and they get away with it all the time, it doesn’t add up. Why should a keeper get away with punching someone but if a player does something similar it’s a red card?
 
wizadry said:
Again, you’re right, this does happen but they aren’t mutually exclusive and I do think keepers get away with murder.

I saw one the other day, can’t remember the game but he came out to punch the ball and barely touched the ball and punched an opponent in the head, he was down for a couple of minutes, it all got brushed under the carpet and nothing was given but it’s obviously wreck less and dangerous, I don’t know how he and they get away with it all the time, it doesn’t add up. Why should a keeper get away with punching someone but if a player does something similar it’s a red card?
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As a former keeper I respectfully disagree ;)
 
wizadry said:
Chances and finishing them wins you games and we aren’t very good at converting them, not that we get many and I don’t disagree, the overriding problem tonight though was how we set up and basically whimpered to a loss against a team third from bottom when we know we had nothing to lose.

Our chances came when we got the ball on the deck, it’s no coincidence that we look ten times a better team when we do so why we play so much hoof ball when it doesn’t suit us or McBurnie is baffling, the manager has to shoulder this.

Ultimately there’s too many problems going on to even discuss whether or not we deserved anything from the game tonight for most people, a lot of people think we deserved to lose and got what we deserved because of how we set up and deployed our tactics, if you can call them tactics anyway, it’s very hard to be rational at times like this but I can understand their thinking to be honest.
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As I see it, we generally perform better when McGoldrick plays.

We generally don't seem to perform well when McBurnie plays. And that is not meant to be a pop at McBurnie who I think cannot be faulted for his effort. He runs himself into the ground every time he plays for us. I just think that as a team we seem to play worse when he is on the pitch. I think it is more to do with how the rest of the side sets up when he is there rather than what McBurnie does or doesn't do.

I too can understand why people get frustrated. This is a horrible season and particularly hard to take after the real promise shown up until the suspension of last season.

Since the first lockdown in March last year our performances have nose dived. We have lost more than .8 of a point every single game since then. Only Liverpool have done worse. They are performing at one point per game worse than before then. No other side comes remotely close in terms of points per game lost since crowds disappeared. I think it might be Palace who are the next nearest with a .2 of a point per game drop off. Not completely sure who it is, but the points per game drop off is about right.

However what I cannot understand is the real hatred and venom being directed at certain players and management. Apparently they are c**ts, they are sh*t, they aren't trying, they don't care, they are all stupid, Wilder is deliberately trying to get the sack, etc etc.

During that game shoutbox was something to behold. You'd have thought we were 10-0 down. The team was absolutely slated and labelled an embarrassment. Sad to say that the real embarrassment was not the team, it was those hurling the abuse.
 
oldblade said:
As I see it, we generally perform better when McGoldrick plays.

We generally don't seem to perform well when McBurnie plays. And that is not meant to be a pop at McBurnie who I think cannot be faulted for his effort. He runs himself into the ground every time he plays for us. I just think that as a team we seem to play worse when he is on the pitch. I think it is more to do with how the rest of the side sets up when he is there rather than what McBurnie does or doesn't do.

I too can understand why people get frustrated. This is a horrible season and particularly hard to take after the real promise shown up until the suspension of last season.

Since the first lockdown in March last year our performances have nose dived. We have lost more than .8 of a point every single game since then. Only Liverpool have done worse. They are performing at one point per game worse than before then. No other side comes remotely close in terms of points per game lost since crowds disappeared. I think it might be Palace who are the next nearest with a .2 of a point per game drop off. Not completely sure who it is, but the points per game drop off is about right.

However what I cannot understand is the real hatred and venom being directed at certain players and management. Apparently they are c**ts, they are sh*t, they aren't trying, they don't care, they are all stupid, Wilder is deliberately trying to get the sack, etc etc.

During that game shoutbox was something to behold. You'd have thought we were 10-0 down. The team was absolutely slated and labelled an embarrassment. Sad to say that the real embarrassment was not the team, it was those hurling the abuse.
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It does get a bit crazy at times but I suppose that’s how some vent their fury. I’d rather people do it on a forum than at the ground anyway. I have particular issues with Lundstram, I can’t stand him and that’s something I’ve never said about a Blades player, ever. He boils my piss how he saunters round the pitch like he’s Xavi, putting minimal effort in, doesn’t put any meaningful tackles in or contributes positively in any shape or form, he doesn’t deserve mine or any Blades fans time and appreciation in my honest opinion of any kind and I’ve put this as nicely and politely as possible because you always come across very well.

Didzy has to start every game when fit, I totally agree.
 
wizadry said:
That also puts them down to 9 men for a wreck less and dangerous challenge, like Lundstrams at Brighton and that makes us huge favourites no matter how shite we were.

Ultimately, we were terrible and way too negative, strangely though I still say we had the three best chances, Stevens, Sharp (should’ve left it for McBurnie) both onside by the way and the Bryan header from a corner all should’ve been buried, all these coupled with the penalty and you’re looking at 4-2 to us, they only had one other good chance other than the goal and we created those two chances for them too, after seeing how shite and negative we were how crazy does that sound, 4-2 to us? 🤷‍♂️😁
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We are still not cute enough.

In this division, Fleck had to go down holding his face. It would have go thr necessary attention and it would have been difficult not to give him a second yellow.
 
Champagneblade said:
We are still not cute enough.

In this division, Fleck had to go down holding his face. It would have go thr necessary attention and it would have been difficult not to give him a second yellow.
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Spot on Champers, particularly someone like Richarlison at Everton - how he goes down and screams as soon as someone puts a tough challenge in on him is a disgrace.
 
Robboblade1889 said:
Every single commentator said it’s a pen some have gone even further. Argue we are shot argue the team selection was shit and the subs etc etc but don’t try and make an argument it wasn’t a pen just because we didn’t deserve anything.

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If that foul had been committed by an outfield player is anywhere on the pitch it would have been a red card, pure and simple!
 
robbiez666 said:
He's a keeper though mate. Keepers routinely recklessly slide or run out, come through a crowd and flatten everyone. Never get punished as long as they get the ball. This looked terrible but I essentially don't see the difference.
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As a member of the goalies union, I expect the keeper to protect himself. But a full-blooded, out-of-control whack across the shins is not self- protection. It is a penalty and a red-card.
 
Again, the arrogance of VAR is the belief that it can get everything right. Plenty of people will genuinely think that's not a penalty, that Bogle played it onto the keeper's foot and the follow through was just a collision.

There is too much room in football for opinion on decisions, these are not technicalities. Even on technicalities VAR often gets it wrong with its daft attempts at geometry.

For Souness to say refs should be ex-pros is laughable. I try and avoid pundits anyway, but most of them just show they know no more about it than any random bloke in the pub, when open. His is just the old, arrogant never-played-the-game argument.

Let's approach this from the ex-pro perspective. First question in the protocol, "did Bogle feel any contact?"
 



Rufus Smalls said:
Spot on Champers, particularly someone like Richarlison at Everton - how he goes down and screams as soon as someone puts a tough challenge in on him is a disgrace.
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Agree. In a parallel universe where we are cute, they are down to 10 men for about 25 minutes which gets further reduced to 9 men with 7 minutes to go with their goalkeeper red carded not to mention having conceded a penalty.

Just checked with Jay (Blades Analytics) who confirmed the xG was 1.33 to 0.99 in Fulham's favour. With a pen awarded and as bad as we were that would have gone to 1.33 v 1.76 in United's favour.
 
change the keeper for a one of our players move it to the middle of the pitch against say a Liverpool player instead of Bogle and thats a yellow or even a red for our player and a free kick to Liverpool for a reckless late challenge. Thats a fact.

Could VAR say that would honestly not happen.
 
Champagneblade said:
Agree. In a parallel universe where we are cute, they are down to 10 men for about 25 minutes which gets further reduced to 9 men with 7 minutes to go with their goalkeeper red carded not to mention having conceded a penalty.
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Keeper wouldn’t have been sent off though. It wasn’t a deliberate foul.
 
varkanoid said:
change the keeper for a one of our players move it to the middle of the pitch against say a Liverpool player instead of Bogle and thats a yellow or even a red for our player and a free kick to Liverpool for a reckless late challenge. Thats a fact.

Could VAR say that would honestly not happen.
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Lundstrum v Brighton anyone? Got the ball cleanly and got a red.
also check out the pigs red card yesterday.
 
HodgysBrokenThumb said:
As a member of the goalies union, I expect the keeper to protect himself. But a full-blooded, out-of-control whack across the shins is not self- protection. It is a penalty and a red-card.
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Remember the good oldsys when we keepers used to come out and use our hands and body when going for the ball instead of jumping in dangerously with both feet???
I think it’s cowardice from a lot of keepers these days
Thoughts??
 
Champagneblade said:
Agree. In a parallel universe where we are cute, they are down to 10 men for about 25 minutes which gets further reduced to 9 men with 7 minutes to go with their goalkeeper red carded not to mention having conceded a penalty.

Just checked with Jay (Blades Analytics) who confirmed the xG was 1.33 to 0.99 in Fulham's favour. With a pen awarded and as bad as we were that would have gone to 1.33 v 1.76 in United's favour.
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wizadry said:
The keeper knew exactly what he was doing, he just tried to make it look unorthodox and feigned injury to make sure he got away with it. I still can’t believe he awarded them a free kick for it. 🤬🤬
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I never realised but did the ref actually give Fulham the free kick for a foul on the keeper ????

If that’s true then that’s the worst decision I’ve seen in years, disgraceful !
 



It was a disgraceful decision and I can only think the VAR was sat watching the game thinking these lot don’t deserve this penalty. It the only thing I can think off as to why they didn’t give it. The fact we didn’t deserve a point has no bearing on the decision.
 
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