Penalty appeal and consistency

[bromtom]

Can someone tell me what the difference was between the penalty appeal today, where he handballed it after missing his kick, and the penalty that was awarded to Aston Villa at the Lane where Egan missed his kick and handballed it?

 

[PittsburghBlade]

however true this may be..would've been a pen against us too in the 2nd half if they implemented it how they have been. The inconsistency's the problem.

 

[PokerBlade]

Today's was much more blatantly accidental. Egan's was borderline. I don't feel hard done by.

 

[Harry's Game]

Today was almost exactly the same as the one Man U had given to them yesterday

 

[bromtom]

Today's was much more blatantly accidental. Egan's was borderline. I don't feel hard done by.

In the context of the game, I don't feel hard done by either and I wasn't expecting it, to me it's not a pen, but you have to ask questions when similar have been given.

I don't see how Egan's arm was in an unnatural position to be honest having just rewatched it to make sure I wasn't misremembering. He lifted his leg to waist height, where his hand also was, would you expect his hand to be above his head in that position?

Also a penalty was apparently given for a similar thing in the Man U Bournemouth game yesterday.

There's no consistency at all.

 

[CentralQuay]

People complain over the subjectivity of the handball decision such as today, are also complaining about the new handball rule in the build up to a goal like the Lucas Moura one the other night which removes subjectivity.

There's not likely to be perfect consistency, when a law is left to the discretion of the referee at the time.

If you want consistency, you have to implement a similar handball law for these cases too.

 

[Brian Deane]

Did JOC inadvertently head the ball onto his own arm when he came on. It looked like the ball rolled down his arm after he misjudged a header in our box.

 

[S40BLADE]

weve had one fucking penalty all season what happened to the whole "it will even out over the season" thing. VAR, Hawkeye and PGMOL are as bent as you can get.

 

[FMBlade1]

Wasn't it pretty similar to the one France got in the 2018 World Cup Final?

Good discussion about it here:

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

The difference is the referee didn’t give the penalty for us , so the VAR will not overturn the decision to a penalty unless it’s a stonewall deliberate handball.
Just like the man united penalty yesterday the VAR will always try and stick with the referee unless it’s a howler/stonewall penalty

Wasn’t Egan’s handball a stonewall penalty if I remember right ?

 

[ghandi]

weve had one fucking penalty all season what happened to the whole "it will even out over the season" thing. VAR, Hawkeye and PGMOL are as bent as you can get.

Strange isn't it when Manchester Utd have had 16.

 

[BettingBlade]

People complain over the subjectivity of the handball decision such as today, are also complaining about the new handball rule in the build up to a goal like the Lucas Moura one the other night which removes subjectivity.

There's not likely to be perfect consistency, when a law is left to the discretion of the referee at the time.

If you want consistency, you have to implement a similar handball law for these cases too.

It begs the question as to what VAR was brought in for then. We were told it was for clear and obvious errors, which would mean the decision not to give us a penalty for that handball was correct as it’s clearly open to interpretation, therefore should not be looked at or overturned.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that VAR is not being used for clear and obvious errors in other games though which is where the inconsistency is so frustrating. I would say the majority of offside overturns are not clear and obvious errors, yet they are overturned on the regular. Contrary to the standard response in defence of this that offsides are black and white, we already know this cannnot be the case as the frame rate on the cameras used cannot definitively tell on the very tightest of calls.

People like Mike Riley and Dermot Gallagher would make great politicians given their constant waffle about the system they’ve implemented which is constantly leaving everyone, not least the officials, any the wiser on how to actually use it.

 

[Mojo]

Jocs was just as bad so the fact he gave neither was fair

 

[wizadry]

Their player gained an advantage as one of our players was incoming to have a pop at goal, it wasn’t our fault that he was a clumsy twat who missed the ball, it’s a clear pen for me.

Egan’s was different as he headed if on to his arm and didn’t gain an advantage as it would’ve ended up in the Keepers arms anyway so it shouldn’t be a penalty.

Two completely different scenarios where it shouldn’t matter if it’s accidental or not but whether the player handballing it gains an advantage or not from doing so.

 

[derfblade.3]

If the ball hits an arm it's a pen......isn't it?

 

[bromtom]

The difference is the referee didn’t give the penalty for us , so the VAR will not overturn the decision to a penalty unless it’s a stonewall deliberate handball.
Just like the man united penalty yesterday the VAR will always try and stick with the referee unless it’s a howler/stonewall penalty

Wasn’t Egan’s handball a stonewall penalty if I remember right ?

He went to hit it with his foot, and it missed his foot and hit his hand, same as this. His hand wasn't in an unnatural position for the kick he was attempting.

 

[CentralQuay]

If the ball hits an arm it's a pen......isn't it?

Nope, never been the law.

 

[PokerBlade]

In the context of the game, I don't feel hard done by either and I wasn't expecting it, to me it's not a pen, but you have to ask questions when similar have been given.

I don't see how Egan's arm was in an unnatural position to be honest having just rewatched it to make sure I wasn't misremembering. He lifted his leg to waist height, where his hand also was, would you expect his hand to be above his head in that position?

Also a penalty was apparently given for a similar thing in the Man U Bournemouth game yesterday.

There's no consistency at all.

Okay, I think the Egan one could go either way but I lean towards pen. Today's wasn't even close to a pen. He swings at the ball and he's not even looking at it when it strikes his arm that's behind him.

 

[robbiez666]

Neither handball today was intentional or blocking a goalscoring chance. Common sense says that neither should have been a pen. If anything, JOC's is worse as he controled it with his arm. Their player wasn't controlling anything!

 

[Beans]

Jocs was just as bad so the fact he gave neither was fair

Just to clear up the O’Connell one - this is not handball as it deflected off another part of his body:

“ Deflections

Premier League players will be allowed extra leeway when it comes to ricocheted handballs.

It is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball if it has deflected off the body of an opponent, team-mate, or even another part of the own player.

So a handball will not be awarded if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/nearby.”

Source: https://www.premierleague.com/news/1263332

I presumed at the time that Pieters had kicked it onto his own hand and that was why they dismissed it so quickly. I am not looking for a conspiracy here but I genuinely do not know why that was not penalised.

 

[bromtom]

Just to be clear, I don't think in the spirit of football it should be a penalty, but with so many almost identical ones given, including one against us, all I want is consistency.

If you're consistent, it's a pen to us I think.

 

[FTPE]

Here's my stance.
I don't want a penalty for shit like that, the game has gone crazy if that's a pen.

On the other hand, if other teams are getting them, and they are going against us then yeah, I will stoop as low as some other fans and shout for them.

 

[CentralQuay]

Just to be clear, I don't think in the spirit of football it should be a penalty, but with so many almost identical ones given, including one against us, all I want is consistency.

If you're consistent, it's a pen to us I think.

There are so many similar ones not given too.
It's one of those that will sometime be given, and sometimes not.

The only solution is a rule similar to the one that led to Kane's goal being disallowed.
Otherwise the subjectivity remains.

 

[Rochdaleblade]

As I said on another thread, given the speed at which the decision was upheld,I wonder if VAR looked at the second incident where Egans' shot was blocked a few seconds after the handball. The original incident looked pretty clear to me that he missed the ball and it then bounced up and hit his hand. Man U or Liverpool would definately have been awarded that penalty.

 

[vas borbokis]

As I said on another thread, given the speed at which the decision was upheld,I wonder if VAR looked at the second incident where Egans' shot was blocked a few seconds after the handball. The original incident looked pretty clear to me that he missed the ball and it then bounced up and hit his hand. Man U or Liverpool would definately have been awarded that penalty.

This ^^^^^ here is the problem!

 

[BettingBlade]

Interesting that Paul Tierney has just waved away a penalty for Villa that wasn’t too dis-similar to the one he couldn’t wait to give for Arsenal again at us.

 

[Inter_blade83]

Interesting that Paul Tierney has just waved away a penalty for Villa that wasn’t too dis-similar to the one he couldn’t wait to give for Arsenal again at us.

Was about to post the same thing. Had that been Mane down the other end, no doubt he would award the pen.

He's bent.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Interesting that Paul Tierney has just waved away a penalty for Villa that wasn’t too dis-similar to the one he couldn’t wait to give for Arsenal again at us.

Except the villa one made lacazettes look like a brutal murder

 

[RecordBreakers]

Only the keeper is allowed to use his hands in open play in a game of football and this has to be inside his area! Now correct me if I'm wrong with that and this is how handballs should be ruled if it touches your arm or hand no matter how it does it should be penalised. Then there is no issue with consistency or accidental/not. Simple

 

[I'll tell me dad.]

I think the two rules on handball are fine, I think it was handball, all be it the defender would consider it a bit unlucky, which they sometimes are when handball is given. Put it this way, if the referee had given it would VAR have overturned it?